Could any self-respecting automotive media outlet really visit the StanceWorks Garage, interview with Mike Burroughs, and not spill at least a little ink on his Ferrari 308 GTBi?
Surely not, and while I didn’t want to talk to Mike about his Ferrari for our recent catch-up story, that doesn’t mean I think the car isn’t deserving of discussion. Quite the contrary.
By this point just about every enthusiast with an internet connection knows what Mike is up to. But, if for some reason you don’t, the TL;DR summation of his plans is this: Ferrari 2.9L F10 V8 out Honda K24 in. With that being what Mike’s doing, some might wonder, why?
Personally, I don’t think any explanation further than “it’s a hot rod” is required, but Mike has provided ample justification on his YouTube channel.
Any gear-head capable of looking at things objectively can acknowledge that the Honda K-series engine is rapidly become the go-to, swappable, small displacement motor. Similar to the allure of the LS V8, these four cylinders are workhorses in any trim. Honda put them in an extremely wide variety of vehicles in configurations from 150hp to 212hp.
The motors can be had for a song, and as a very well understood platform, can putter along dutifully for decades, or set fire to any tire you throw at it with a bit of fettling.
If after watching the video above you still don’t think a K24 is the perfect motor for this car, then I’d love to hear your justifications in the comments section. Seriously, aside from upsetting the ‘purity’ of what Ferrari has built, this swap makes perfect sense.
A K24 in its most potent factory trim, untouched, makes 200hp. According to Ferrari, when new the F106 2.9L V8 made about 202hp. Factor in the mentioned weight savings of just swapping driveline for driveline and, if you’re building a race car (which Mike is) the math is simpler than 2+2.
Mike is of course adding a multiplier to this equation via forced induction. A Garrett G35-900 will be used initially for goals of 600whp, and then a G42-1200 for closer/hopefully above 1,000whp.
It is entirely possible to wake up the Ferrari motor, but to quote Mike: “I may have a Ferrari but I don’t have Ferrari money.”
‘More than you can afford, pal’ isn’t a cliché quote for nothing.
To carry the mathematical analogy an increment further, if an awkward remainder is left anywhere it’s in the fabrication. But Mike isn’t the type to cry during long division – he’s already successfully done much of the heavy fabrication lifting himself.
Further still, in a stroke of sheer DIY brilliance, he is attempting to limit the number of one-off components used to complete the driveline. When you’re building a race car, anything you can lift out of a catalog is a bonus.
Again, unless you are staunchly opposed to practicality, this swap makes plenty of sense. The fact it’s upset multiple, fairly active hornet’s nests of purists is just a bit of a bonus.
Of course, Mike is also changing the car from a visual perspective opting to fit a Liberty Walk kit along with yet-to-be-revealed motorsport wheels.
These decisions might stir up controversy (angle grinders into Ferrari tin usually do) but for Mike’s purposes more traction is required, and Liberty Walk just to happens to make one of the best looking kits for the car.
Unlike many modified Ferraris featured in automotive media, this car will be driven with intent, regularly, upon completion. Competing in Global Time Attack 2021 is the goal, one minute and 40-second laps at Buttonwillow being the install call out. Mike has no illusions the Ferrari will be immediately competitive – it is just another one of his automotive experiments after all – but once the car reveals its failings the idea will be iterated upon.
If it becomes an all-out race car, then it becomes an all-out race car, but if it dances on the street/track border that is cool too.
During our interview, Mike said car building should be fun, and watching his progression on YouTube it’s abundantly clear he’s having much more fun than coloring outside the lines that those dead set on coloring within.
Dave Thomas
Instagram: stanceiseverythingcom
Photos by Keiron Berndt
Instagram: keiron_berndt
OFFICIAL SPEEDHUNTERS SUPPLIERS
Once you start competing with a machine the whole notion of engine swaps --or keeping a factory engine-- for "purity" or being "different" etc go out the window. It's really about two simple things: money and speed.
If you can go faster for less money and you get more reliability you are going to have a better shot at being consistent which means points which means championships. This is why I've never understood why people constantly b**** about LS swaps. There are just smart and dumb things to do when it comes to cars.
This is a great example of someone being intelligent and methodical about going fast. At the end of the day the lap time doesn't care how many followers you have because of your clout. It cares about the lowest number. Cool car! I dig it! Glad to know hot rodding still exists--even if it is in a bright yellow Ferrari with a Japanese heart.
but if he was really trying to be intelligent, methodical, and budget friendly about going fast he would not have used a 308 chassis in the first place.
I believe the main reason people piss on LS swaps, is because it's too common.
but isn't "be different" the reason he's starting with a 308 in the first place?
From our conversation the Ferrari platform was chosen more because he likes how it looked than to be "Different". While Mike is different a lot, that never seems to be his prime motivator, he just builds what he wants.
There's nothing wrong with being different or trying new things, but that typically doesnt work in competition...
I think a lot of people have this grand notion they are going to come in and change the game. Do something different. Stir the pot and show everyone you can win in a 308 in global time attack or whatever series it is.
The problem is while you are trying to innovate and blaze trails there are 1000 guys who have run a Z06 way faster and can make a phone call to find out the specs of what they need to run to be successful. That's called R&D and it costs money.
Even if you have the money its a whole nother animal when you start trying to figure out how to make an platform work--let alone an established one. This is a complete unique platform with a unique engine which means you have to do all the R&D and guess what? While you are...everyone else is racking up points.
We see this in karting and in sports cars and in F1. It is just the nature of competition and this is where seasoned readers / racers can see speed hunters out of its element entirely. Its one thing to put speed in your name, its another thing to achieve it on a race track.
At the end of the day--and I mean this without any disrespect--you guys are an internet magazine. You're not racers and you never will be. There's no market for that. Even if you tried to right now you simply don't have enough time left to master that aspect of the game.
I'm neither here nor there on this car. I think its super cool and different. Do I think its going to win anything ? Hell no.
Welcome to racing. It's a hot ass sauna at 200 degrees F and everyone is lifting weights while they ride their road bike. You'll find out very quickly if you're built for it.
There's a reason why NASA says the only thing that builds bone density in space is heavy weight lifting and its not because no one thought about trying pilates. Pilates just doesnt work. Neither does a 308 in global time attack...
Hate to put it so bluntly but thats just the reality. This game is not subjective...
You're right. At the very least I have never professed to be a racer. Taken a few driving courses yes but never wanted to race.
I think you're assuming (not wrongly) that Mike want's to be competitive. I actually mention that he doesn't expect it to be from the start. He also knows it may never be. Yes he could do better with a C5 and really. Few would care, I wouldn't be writing about it and we wouldn't be talking about it (at least not here) It would be just another fast C5.
The fun thing about time attack is that a lot of its competitors are in it to be in it, for their own personal goals (this is why a lot of racers have big issue with it). This at the end of the day will be a fun car to boot around the track and the street making it far more enjoyable than many of these cross breed swaps that do little more than idle on and off a trailer.
Well said. I can understand that entirely. It's the competitive nature of a racer to not want to lose. I'd rather not be featured and have trophies...but like you said you wouldn't be featuring him if it was just another C5.
To that end I see eye to eye with you and there's nothing wrong with it. This is definitely a different way to go racing and I'm sure it will be fun for him. As long as he learns something from the experience and develops the platform we have to respect him. That's what racing is about. A lot of different ways to skin a cat as they say.
I personally love it. I think it's cool and I hope he does win with it or at least challenges people who are at the front. It can for sure be done with the right know how and resources which is why I love racing. Sometimes the dark horse wins. If it was predictable and easy...well...everyone would be a champion.
Badass car. Great feature. It's a Ferrari with a Honda engine going racing. Can't hate on that!
Though it doesn't really seem to matter what he starts with. Anything he touched becomes unique lol
Honestly, I never expected to see a K-swapped 308 or even BoostedBoiz's K-swapped NSX for example
But it's always great to do something different out of the mold and applaud the team who's doing this build can't wait to see the finished product!
smh...this isn't "out of the mold." It's extremely common in racing. Lol
Oh yeah in a way you’re right there are some four cylinder counterparts of even V8 production cars used in racing but I meant something different as a street build if they’re not planning on racing it or something
Rad!
Without specific reference to this vehicle , it seems a lot of these swaps are done purely to be “different” . So many nice cars are being chopped up purely for the instagram or you tube likes. Obviously it’s the owners right to do whatever the hell they want it’s their car their money but you’d almost be “different” these days by taking a restrained approach and keeping the vehicle with its OG engine.
Engine swapping has been done for ever and shouldn’t be seen as “ground breaking” . A rotor in a Ferrari for example is more likely done for likes rather than because the owner actually wanted a rotary powered Ferrari .
Bit of a shame. What happens to these cars once YouTube or Instagram doesn’t care anymore ? It’s “building “ for the pure sake of it . It’s not about driving anymore
I like it. As much as i love the 308 in stock trim.
The liberty walk kit combined with a 1000hp screaming k-motor sounds really quite amazing.
The mix of ferrari chassis, honda engine, other parts, components and what not............are all part of the puzzle (and mystery) when embarking on a project car.
You'll never know what, when, or where you'll end up.
I don't agree with doing things like this and trumpeting that it's good because it upsets people. It seems common on youtube and facebook for people to try and garner attention by doing outlandish things solely to get negative reactions, because that gives them attention.
Yes it does make sense. Because it is a "Ferrari" engine despite being overweight ad underpowered it costs an arm and a leg. You pay for the "badge". Ain't worth it. One question though wouldn't a Subaru STI engine (FJ25) makes more sense as being a boxer engine it gives a much lower center of gravity and therefore improves handling?
On the weight distribution part I do agree. However, pushing 1000 HP out of a Subaru engine with the same reliability that a K-Series has. Would require allot more money
yea but for day to day driving , 500 - 600 hp is much more than enough and that sweet sound of boxer rumble (OK poor man's Porsche engine) plus very good handling would more than make up for the lack of outright horsepower, I would think.
Please stop using excuses connected to racing. OK you enjoy making manga characters out of classic cars and you support companies that do that. We got it. We also got that you like purists getting annoyed. This guy is a professional, trying to promote his work. This car can't be successful in racing for a million reasons that have nothing to do with the engine swap. "I don't have Ferrari money, so I'll spend more than the car is worth to swap the engine". The money argument is completely bullshit. If money was an issue he would sell the Ferrari and make a racing car out of something that actually has been raced and there are both parts and know how available. All in all, I don't care if he destroys the car (it's not something like a 250 GTO) but all your arguments used in the article make zero sense to someone who knows a thing or two about racing.
I don't think I've ever read a more accurate post on this website John.
Eh, I don't think it's all that accurate. But of course it's my words he's running up against.
If it never hit the track people would criticize it for looking one way but not being used (See Rusty) and if it does hit the track people are going to say it should only be used for what Rusty was.
Can't win 'em all I suppose.
(Also I don't think he's out to best anything but his own personal goals, Mike isn't a professional racer)
Can you expand on your reasoning?
Not trying to be a jerk but if we're going to talk about it let's TALK about it.
He likes the looks of a Ferrari and wants to track it. Being Mike he doesn't want to do it in stock form.
Being extremely competitive from the jump however is not the sole driving factor.
Smiles per gallon and all that. He set a track time he wants to hit and he'll go from there. Miata is usually the answer but not everyone wants one. He also had an e30 m3 for a time. Super proven but for reasons he'll hopefully explain here he moved on from that too.
But truly let's talk about it within the scope of this platform and his goals.
What motor would you use and why? What wheel and tire set up and why etc.
I guess you were asking me to expand on my reasoning. First things first, I don't disagree with the car choice or the engine choice etc. I couldn't care less to be honest. Everyone can race whatever he wants, the way he wants. I disagree with the reasoning given to support these choices. For example, last time I checked, 1000 hp engines need Ferrari money. When you want an x time car, you first try it to see how far it is now from x. When you want to build a race car you don't just add huge fenders destroying the aerodynamics because, you assume, you need more traction. Why? Because you don't just add tyre when you have traction problems. In a nutshell, I'd be fine if you supported this build by writing something like "it's a cool build because the guy building it is a great hot rodder or something and I'm sure it will be really fun around the track". But I can't help but disagree when you write "he does this because racing" and "he does that because money".
Yeah sorry John, I was asking you. Sometimes the nesting makes things unclear.
Compartively a 1000hp K is less than Ferrari motor money. But yes you're right I did lean heavy on the race side with this line "if you’re building a race car (which Mike is) the math is simpler than 2+2." which is what sparked a lot of this conversation. It's more hot rod than race car.
The original engine is fine, when the emissions junk is removed and a modern injection system fitted (if this one originally had it, rather than the webers the early ones had). The car is old and will never set track records on the original chassis, after this many years of use its time attack days are done. Good for happy laps but not actual competition, unless competing against similarly old cars, but then it will no longer conform to any historical racing rulebook with a Honda motor in it.
Lots of commenters seem to get caught up in details and forget about the title of the article. "Cars are supposed to be fun." Sure a 308 with a modernized injection system on it is fun, but a 600-1000whp K24 with a sequential transmission is FUN. It'll be a hoot to compete in. Does it need to win? Nope. Will it win? No way. I'm in the Limited Class against Feras Qartoumy's Z06. I have absolutely no chance of winning. But it'll be fun, and it'll make for a really neat car that I can take pride in, and most importantly, had a lot of fun building. What else really matters?
That’s a valid point Mike, although in that instance I would argue why swap it to an awful sounding four banger with fuel injection ? Throw some Webber’s on and the let the V8 Howl through the downdraught carbs for maximum moist-ness inducing induction sound !
Built turbo K24 race motors don't sound "awful" though, and the factory V8 isn't the F355-sounding engine everyone imagines it to be. It sounds respectable at best, but it's not a noteworthy tone. Way too many folks are caught up in romanticizing the sound of the car.
The same can be said for the K24 .
To each their own I guess
Love it. Absolutely love it. Not because it pisses off the purist, that's getting kinda old. But because it's a cool build. I love the LW look (most times - and on this, it's brilliant), a screaming 4 banger and the retro look of the 308 is a perfect starting point.
All the engines in the world and he chose a friggin Honda 4 cylinder
"it's a hot rod"... What are you guys smoking.
It's a lukewarm rod. Nothing wrong turning the middle child 308 into something an owner likes, but to say, nay, even insunuate that an actual gear head *thought* the Honda four is "perfect" for the 308 is both objectively and subjectively lying to themselves, and obviously ignorant to the capability of tuning the oem v8 into what actually belongs in a 308.
The problem is the chassis, and how it's over 30 year old steel. The builder might have an ASE certification, and be realistic about how to get a build done, but clearly useless understanding how steel (and aluminum) fatuiges/warps/"breathes" over time to become brittle rubber. Just ask the steel bridges around the world that didn't have to take corners over 1G specifically at suspension mounts if you need some education. So putting in too fast, too snappy, and too high of an engine is among the ideas that aren't ideal (can this dude at least google polar moment of inertia, designing mounts and chassis for weight and suspension geometry, and now since we're listing stuff, at least the subjective *massive down grade* in sound because there simply isn't replacement for displacement in this area).
Please revise "this is perfect" as it's just another fun idea, not not great idea... The Italian that would be monumental with this drivetrain swap should've been a safari-style Alfa 4c, and that's just one better idea than down-grading/kit-car-ing this poor 308. You guys have been drinking too much!
Also, many of the middle 308's had meh engines but allowed many to enjoy the iconic wedge style Gandini and the late 70's spawned... Such a primo car to restomod or hot rod with other low, light, and flat engines such as Porsche flat sixes (sacrilege!), Mazda rotaries (alternative history fantasy!), and shoehorned Ferrari/Lambo/Mclaren-Benz v12's (OTT!)... Yawn on the Honda 4, but def don't mind it exists - imo.
You've wrapped a lot of emotion into your reply. I appreciate it. However none of the motors you mention at the end there make much more sense for a vehicle that will be used within a reasonable (context based reasonable) budget.
The K24 is objectively the most logical, sensical motor to put into the car. I don't think an argument could be put forth for a different engine that makes more sense when looking at the numbers and logic itself.
How is K swapping something different? The only thing different is that he is swapping in a horrid sounding engine with half the cylinders.
honda civic engine into ferarri??? Bit more cracy lol
performance of K cannot be argued
The first time I heard about people swapping out the V6 in an NSX for a K24, I thought it was ridiculous. The more I looked into the logic of this kind of swap, the more it made sense; it's all about dollars to horses. The market, or aftermarket, for K24 engines is vastly superior to the options for the NSX's C30A/C32B engine. Why would one choose a K24 over an LS? Weight and size, mostly. Of course, in the coming years it's going to be mostly electric swaps into classic cars like 308s and NSXs, but let's enjoy it while we can.
One of the few engine swaps that actually makes the car MORE reliable.
Like an LS-swapped FD.
And it looks REALLY good in yellow with unpainted flares.
Seriously, we need SH to keep up with the progress of this build. A car meant to be driven with a motor that is simple, honest and easy to add power to (not to mention, within reach of many). “I may have a Ferrari but I don’t have Ferrari money.” ...exactly!
I have been following this build from the start. It is unique in that while it is just a K=swap, no one has done it on a 308. Honda K 24- K 20 motors have more aftermarket parts and research than any other platform, (maybe LS has more). Building the Ferrari V8 would be big $$, with not much aftermarket support, The K 24 has proven power and reduces drive train weight by half. Mike is doing what wants, being creative, making You Tube money, and entertaining his watchers.
Dave, curious if you know what Mike's TN connection is...I've noticed he runs antique TN tags on the 308 (when it was drivable) and Rusty also had TN tags at one point. Just a TN guy wondering. As for the build, I like it--it's different and should turn out great.
Dude has a poserworks company and wants to build a poser mobile, that’s cool - nuff said.
There is nothing rational about any of it, it’s an old car with a new engine and he’s throwing out numbers like 1000hp because attention.
I hope it’s everything he wants.
I don't really understand how it's a poser mobile. It's a hot rod, it will be used. K motors can make 1000 hp. Does he need 1000hp no. But most of us don't need the HP we have so.
Also he's building it himself which does take a good amount of accumulated skill.
will he actually ever use it tho? 1000hp for him to attend 2 time attacks and the car breaks both times then he sells it and makes money off it because it is an internet car and it "broke" the internet
Using it twice is using it no? Taking his word as his word the car will be used and developed on as time passes but it might just end up a wild street car that is tracked occasionally than it does an un-plated track dedicated machine.
Mike has learned from Rusty not to take things too overboard.