Well, it was only a matter of time before this always controversial issue became to the topic of one of our weekly polls. With the recent discussion that’s surfaced over the last week about knock off and replica parts vs. the originals we figured now was a good time to tackle this topic head on.
Both sides of the debate are very vocal in their views, with supporters of the original parts saying that knock off and replica parts hurt the industry and hold back the development of new parts. Supporters of replica parts state that the lower cost replica parts help make the hobby more accessible and allow people to save funds for other parts of their cars.
The question is, where do you stand personally on the replica vs. original debate?
Of course there are many facets of this argument as well. What about used parts? What about parts from budget companies that aren’t replicas of something else? Etc.
Make your vote and discuss below.
-Mike
[polldaddy poll="6518971"]
OFFICIAL SPEEDHUNTERS SUPPLIERS
It's not a matter of wether it is ok to rock fake parts or not, it is a matter of the magazines and websites not featuring cars built with fake parts. People will always build what they want and what makes them happy and that is fine. However, it is up to magazines and websites to only feature the best built cars with the top of the line parts so that we can have something to strive for!
It's not a matter of wether it is ok to rock fake parts or not, it is a matter of the magazines and websites not featuring cars built with fake parts. People will always build what they want and what makes them happy and that is fine. However, it is up to magazines and websites to only feature the best built cars with the top of the line parts so that we can have something to strive for!
I can argue both sides. It's tough to say one way or another if it hurts one industry or helps others. Cheap parts and knock offs help people who otherwise can't afford the good stuff or real deal, but quality shows and even de-badged you can spot real from replica. People who have the means will still get the real thing versus the replica for the most part.
I can argue both sides. It's tough to say one way or another if it hurts one industry or helps others. Cheap parts and knock offs help people who otherwise can't afford the good stuff or real deal, but quality shows and even de-badged you can spot real from replica. People who have the means will still get the real thing versus the replica for the most part.
Exactly. Most of us can only afford the replica parts. We see featured cars and get inspired or want this part or that look butbcan afford a set of volk-te37s or rs-watanabe wheels, or arc parts or hks, etc... So we have obx, raceland, Rota and Koenig... @dan1407
Exactly. Most of us can only afford the replica parts. We see featured cars and get inspired or want this part or that look butbcan afford a set of volk-te37s or rs-watanabe wheels, or arc parts or hks, etc... So we have obx, raceland, Rota and Koenig... @dan1407
I understand why people put knockoff parts on their cars but don't really like it, I feel like it deters people from creating new products because they think that someone will just make a replica of it somewhere down the line.
I understand why people put knockoff parts on their cars but don't really like it, I feel like it deters people from creating new products because they think that someone will just make a replica of it somewhere down the line.
replicas are afforable for broke asses like me plus my car isnt anything to bat a eyelash over so putting some cheaper rims on my dd seem fit . if i could shit money it would be a different story
replicas are afforable for broke asses like me plus my car isnt anything to bat a eyelash over so putting some cheaper rims on my dd seem fit . if i could shit money it would be a different story
fake parts make cars that are built with top shelf parts that much better to see in real life. Seeing a fully built car with only the best parts in a magazine or online are cool to stare and gawk at. But when you can actually have the chance to see, in person, a truly dedicated car that has only the best and right parts. Now that's when you can really appreciate good quality parts and not knock offs.
fake parts make cars that are built with top shelf parts that much better to see in real life. Seeing a fully built car with only the best parts in a magazine or online are cool to stare and gawk at. But when you can actually have the chance to see, in person, a truly dedicated car that has only the best and right parts. Now that's when you can really appreciate good quality parts and not knock offs.
Fake parts are like Fake boobs... Ussualy found on low-brain persons... I guess Replicas are ussualy used by people who want to be someone who they cant be, thats all.
Fake parts are like Fake boobs... Ussualy found on low-brain persons... I guess Replicas are ussualy used by people who want to be someone who they cant be, thats all.
@Dogg Low brain? What does that mean? Is it like the lower brain, meaning the spinal cord, brain stem and diencephalon, cerebellum.
So if people want a good looking car, not necessarily a performance car, just something that looks good, and they buy cheaper rimes etc., that makes them stupid?
@Dogg Low brain? What does that mean? Is it like the lower brain, meaning the spinal cord, brain stem and diencephalon, cerebellum.
So if people want a good looking car, not necessarily a performance car, just something that looks good, and they buy cheaper rimes etc., that makes them stupid?
I say get what you can afford. Money is tight for people and not everyone can shell out 2-4,000 on a new set of bbs rims or an ITR conversion. Yes original parts get more respect, but in terms of finances you got to rock what you got.
I say get what you can afford. Money is tight for people and not everyone can shell out 2-4,000 on a new set of bbs rims or an ITR conversion. Yes original parts get more respect, but in terms of finances you got to rock what you got.
@dan1407 So if a person builds their own car from scratch and does a great job of it, it shouldn't get a feature cause the rims aren't "original"? Is that car less worthy to be shown than some rich guys car that he just got built from a shop? (not saying people building cars for others isn't a good thing or that they're not worth featuring, but not more than those doing it them selves).
@dan1407 So if a person builds their own car from scratch and does a great job of it, it shouldn't get a feature cause the rims aren't "original"? Is that car less worthy to be shown than some rich guys car that he just got built from a shop? (not saying people building cars for others isn't a good thing or that they're not worth featuring, but not more than those doing it them selves).
@AlexanderEvensen
Are we talking about CHEAPER parts or REPLICAS? There are dozens of good looking cheap parts that can be used - these are out of question. Theres a 100000 ways to build a good looking / superb perfoming CHEAP car - but using NOT REPLICA but good / cheap parts.
Now onto REPLICA parts. Why be someone you CANT be? Its like wearing a FAKE armani shirt - and acting rich?? See the difference?
if someone builds a car from scratch (actually from the ground up) then they can afford and should have a set of custom wheels built for the car. at the very least they should have a set rims that dont detract from the value and appearance of the car.
@Dogg It's not the same thing. I'm new to this car scene, and I don't know which rims are replicas and which aren't. If I find some I like that I can afford, I'll buy them, but it's not cause I want to be someone I'm not, it's because I want the rims that look the way I prefer. Is there a master directory of what is original and what is replica?
@dan1407 I don't agree. And with "from scratch" I mean, they find a car and rebuild it to how they want it to be, like that Honda S2000 from Sweden. If you don't like it, don't read or comment, go comment what you do like.
This is a futile discussion and it's extremely annoying and idiotic (yet I replied in it..).
For a dedicated show car I'm all for sticking with originals. However, I live in New York City, and I have a street car which I drive and park ALOT. Reps all the way for that. I'm not about to put a $3000+ set of rims on my car so I can hate myself when they get destroyed by curbs and potholes.
How many people don't even realise that so called 'original' parts are replicas themselves..?
I'd pay triple for a genuine part anyday... especially when it comes to rims or other important safety parts.
People are always gonna hate dude. That's the beauty of the internet...you can hate on anything you want anonomously and never catch shit for it. That said, to each his own really...if a car looks good, sounds good, is fast, and doesn't blow up then kudos to whoever did it regardless of what parts are on it.
There are a few things to consider before you make this call. One of them is consider the company who makes the "knockoffs" are they coming out with any original components on their own too, do they contribute to improving the parts market. Or are they just a bunch of money grubbing slimeballs who don't care about the industry and are just trying to exploit certain parts of it for profit. If thats the case I wouldn't support such a company, personally. In the Mustang aftermarket industry there is such a company who fits such a description, and I'm sure there are others in other followings too.
@MellowGold just build it how you want it and don't worry about what other people say. if you're building your car for someone other than yourself, you're building it for the wrong reason
Agreed. Good point. Also, one has to look at the person behind the car. If a dude puts a set of Rotas (just for example) on his car and is fine with them being Rotas then that's cool. But when someone gets reps and tries to pass them off as the real thing, that's pretty weak. For example, someone getting TE37 reps off ebay and then putting the Volk stickers on and telling everyone he's got a $3k+ set of rims = d-bag.
Instead of investing into their own R&D and design, knockoff companies basically steal someone else's work. Some of the wheel failures that I've seen over the years are due to the poor manufacturing standards of knockoff companies located in countries where words 'quality control' mean next to nothing. This is one of the reasons why Rotas are so cheap. Some of them are simply unsafe to use on a public road. Would you like to your wheel to break in half after you hit a pothole? I know I wouldn't. The same applies to badly restored brand name wheels, but that's another story. Given the option of buying new, 'replica' (read: fake) wheels and cheap steelies I'll always go for the latter. Wheels, tyres, suspension and brakes are THE most important parts as far as safety is concerned. I'd rather wait some time, save up and use proper parts than use knockoffs from SE Asia. If the engine blows up, well, you're going to have to tow the car home. If your wheel fails while doing 60mph... You see the point.
By the way, there are many companies which offer high quality, lightweight aluminium wheels that won't break a bank, like Speedline Corse or Enkei. Even if their wheel designs are not as attractive as those of Volk Racing or SSR, they're functional, quality-controlled parts meeting and exceeding numerous national and international standards (JWL, EC, DOT), which were established FOR YOUR SAFETY, nothing else.
id say the biggest concern is the lack of R&D that goes in to knock off parts and parts from the cheaper companies. wheels are arguably the most important part of a car. they are the first thing people notice about a nice car and they allow your vehicle to maneuver about the streets/tracks properly. everyone has seen pictures or know someone who has had a knock off rims break or collapse on shitty roads or under heavy abuse at the track. not saying that a set of volks will never break but realisticly it is very unlikely. if rota came out with their own line of wheels and actually tested their product through out the years on actual race cars in various racing scenes then perhaps i would have faith in their company. enkei may not have the coolest line of wheels but they manufacture oem wheels as well as supply F1 with wheels and therefore everyone trusts them as a brand.
when it comes to aero parts its true you can probably get away with a knock off lip and no one will know but is that ok? when you buy aero parts you can go one of two ways, either looks or performance. if you are going the looks route then fitment is paramount. the cheaper manufactures pump out as many peices as they think they will need and then set them on a shelf until its time to ship thus warping them and messing up future fitment but try to cover their ass by saying that only a body shop should do the install. when you by a j's racing carbon wide body for an s2000 you can assure that the fitment will be perfect because a team spent hours, if not days, hand laying carbon fiber to ensure perfection. if you are going the route of performance then the last thing you want is your so called carbon fiber spoiler falling apart while you are doing 160mph down the straight. you can assure that this will never happen with voltex. voltex tests its shit in a wind tunnel and on its various time attack sponsered cars.
again, its your car and you can do what you want but knock-offs do not help the industry!
When I shop for rims, I hardly ever care what brand of rims they are. In fact, it was hard for me to find rims for my Camaro that looked good that weren't the oh-so-common corvette rims or the equally overused Crager SS's. So I started looking at brands that aren't hot shot brands, and they had some pretty amazing styles that the bigger brands should be copying but they aren't. But if I wanted a set of rims that looked like BBS Mesh rims, I'd just buy a set of BBS Mesh rims. I never go for look-a-like but I will always give the small guys a chance when it comes to performance / style as long as they aren't knock offs.
the frustration with the s2000 is not what the builder did in building the car, its with speedhunters for featuring it. we want to look at cars that inspire us to build better or inspire us to create something new. if i can google s2000 on varestoen wheels and come back with thousands upon thousands of images then why would i be inspired to build it? why would i as a car builder and artist want to create what has already been created? that is why these sites exist and if these sites are not doing what they are supposed to then it is up to us to express our opinions in order to not have this repeated.
exactly, the small guys are what all these companies started out as. it was their persute to build better that got them to where they are and why people spend top dollar to have their parts.
Well... tuning all sorts of cars as I have been over the years since I was 15 i'm 30 now I have always respected the prestige of getting that rare JDM original part. If you were a rich kid you were decked out from the start but for us not so fortunate you would do whatever you needed to do to obtain that quality piece for your ride. Over the years this replica scene has blown up like crazy and I guess I can agree with the fact that it allows ppl to tune their cars quicker with parts that look pretty damn close to the real thing and essentially unless your a pro racer do the job just fine. I think the best point made was below by MellowGold where if you as the owner are ok with getting the more affordable brand stuff and rep it for what it is then more power to you. These clowns that replicate decals and what not should be shot. It's one thing to make a product look "similar" but to try and fake it to the max is not ok. I always took pride in my first ride for example a 1991 Toyota MR-2 turbo to have the super rare Garage Fukui SPL/Phoenix Power stuff on my car. It was crazy expensive but just like how I operate most of my purchases it was rare and dope. I remember our crew would all have your different rides and you would be stoked to finally afford that rare exhaust or custom piece and show it off. Then it was on to the next piece to complete the puzzle. I guess its all about living within your means... I can respect someone who saves their $ to get those key pieces and really make their ride their own as opposed to the cheaper stuff everyone can sport. Then again in the long run I sell cars and you never really get that money back... So there's a question? Whose the chump? the guy that at the time has a super decked out ride with all the high end parts and then sells it two years later at a loss? Or the guy that gets into the car throws some cheap parts on that does the job for the most part and doesn;t lose as much in the long run??? Hrmmm???? I still won't rock fake stuff just a personal decision but is being all original worth the price tag?
Sooo true I forgot who makes whose stuff but I remember wheels alone that are made by more affordable companies having price tags double or triple for custom wheels from another company.. #SMH
@SPEEDHUNTERS http://t.co/FcDPTDyK
If you cant beat em (pretend to) join em ..........then sabotage from the inside. Really though im sorry to say but what of the majority of drift privaters/enthusist who cant afford to spend $500+ per wheel on the blingiest baller wheels and other baller parts I mean which do you choose $500 for one wheel or $500 for several tires, and thats why Enkei's RPF1 is so popular there original, inexpensive, light weight, ....... and im bored but you get the point, i hope. expensive original or inexpensive knockoff idc either way because at least when i look at wheels its 1)price 2)performance 3)looks. other parts are a different story its 1)performance 2)performance 3)price
I think this argument / poll needs to be rephrased. There IS a distinct difference between 'knock-off" and "replica". knock-offs typically constitute 'fake' (forgeries), where 'replicas' are known to be similar to the original in which they are modeled after, but make no claims to being anything other than replicas. a modern, mustang based cobra kit car is a replica of a vintage cobra, but one wouldn't consider the kick car a 'knock-off'. There's a level of context that each word carries. I love original work equips, but, I don't have the cash to afford such wheels, so replica wheels are fine (assuming they replicate the design and strength accordingly).
I'd like to bring up another facet to this debate, obsolete parts that everyone wants but aren't made new anymore. Growing up in the aircooled vw scene, everyone wants to have 67' 4.5 inch wide Porsche Fuchs alloys (fronts) or original BRM's. The price of these rims have gone through the roof, so would I spend $5-$10,000 to rock as rare set of rims and be afraid to drive my car?...no way, let the speculators thrive because I'm buying (as I did) high quality repros.
On newer rims that are easier to find I'd stick to the originals,as these rims are in a class or their own when it comes to R&D, material strenght and build quality. Nothing is more disappointing than ordering a part (not rims) off the internet and find out its a cheaply made copy or an original that doesn't fit well
GeoffreyCaruana 0 pts
I'd like to bring up another facet to this debate, obsolete parts that everyone wants but aren't made new anymore. Growing up in the aircooled vw scene, everyone wants to have 67' 4.5 inch wide Porsche Fuchs alloys (fronts) or original BRM's. The prices of these rims have gone through the roof, so would I spend $5-$10,000 to rock a rare set of rims and be afraid to drive my car?...no way, let the speculators thrive because I'm buying (as I did) high quality repros.
On newer rims that are easier to find I'd stick to the originals,as these rims are in a class or their own when it comes to R&D, material strenght and build quality. Nothing is more disappointing than ordering a part (not rims) off the internet and find out its a cheaply made copy of an original that doesn't fit well
Budget company? Like Continental, Hankook, Maxxis or Falken...
All of the aforementioned companies started small are still young in their business life cycle, but have had a great deal of success in recent years. Did they research other tire manufactures products before making their own, I would bet it? More importantly, they are all supporters of motorsports on a professional and grassroots level.
Should you not feature cars that have these tires because the companies haven't been around since the 1800's, like Goodyear, Michelin and Dunlop have?
Low budget and high quality aren't always mutually exclusive.
sidenote: anyone bitching about "OG" wheels needs to go look in their garage first, because I can bet half of them are sitting on tirerack specials.
I believe that for as long as the knock off parts aren't broadcasting theirs is original, it is fine. Copying is a form of flattery, you can only hold onto a design only for so long. It's like this, if you make a lasagna, isn't it that also a blatant copy from the original creator of the lasagna itself? Probably you can argue with a bit of difference on the ingredients but the main components are there.
Humans have been copying all their lives, and it is a way also to push further what we have achieved. Take for example, the scientists who discover things, they use other researches as basis as well, is that considered copying?
The most expensive and original parts aren't always the best. Only diehard fan-boys out there just brag about what they own. Would you put that expensive wheels you saved for two years for a race this weekend? If not, then it beats the purpose of buying those lightweight forged wheels sitting pretty in your garage.
On another note, I wonder if the Mustang RTR X is considered a replica as well, since the chassis is a brand new one and the manufacturing of the original chassis has been halted for decades.
Sometimes, original parts are either not accessible or really pricey, so if you can't afford the originals, I don't see the harm on having a replica part... Also, even if I had the money, I'd leave my original wheels for shows or special occasions, as on the daily life, they can get scratched or even stole....
I really don't care if people use originals or not as long as they don't try to pass off their knock-offs as original, like buying Drag DR20s and putting the Work Equip center cap on it. Rep your knock-offs proudly!
I dont have 4000 dollars for wheels so does that mean i should just give up? No iam guna buy what i can afford. I REALLY doubt any of the people talking all high and mighty about orginal stuff would ever say a word to someone in person on the street about how " I dont respect you cause your wheels are a off brand". Give me a break. Cool is cool, if you like it, then rock it who cares what strangers think of your car.
Act like someone your not?? what the hell are you talking about. If i find a part for my car thats a good price and i think it looks cool who the hell are you to judge?
It's sad to see 31+% of people voted "Replica are fine" Those people are broke! They want to keep enjoying modding their car and feel entitle to do so.
They fail to realize that those knock off companies have ZERO customer support. If something breaks, they're on their own.
If their fake wheels break off on the freeway and crash, they might involve other innocent driver (very unlikely with genuine wheel).
Or if their Chinese radiator burst, they blow the engine; which can cause the car to catch on fire (I witnessed it with my own eyes).
How about that dingy ass eBay exhaust with shitty welds? It breaks on the road, scrapes on the ground until it breaks off completely and hit the car travelling behind? Have you thought about that? I can go on and on. Eventually those college students will grow up and realize, "how dumb was I?".......hopefully.
Most of those folks don't realize that It's not about who is the most "G" !!! It's about safety, and whoever supports the fake industry doesn't seem to give a rat's ass about it.
Modding cars is NOT cheap, if you can't afford it, pick up another hobby!
Forged wheels cost $4000 yes! Do you have options out there? Yes, plenty! There are several Japanese companies that make legit stuff (mostly cast wheels) that are very affordable. Enkei/ AME being one of them.
I don't give a rat's ass about "what I think about your car" I CARE about safety on the road, and most, if not all, Chinese knock off companies do not invest ANY money into R&D.
I rock knock off wheels. I drift, and am not responsible/well off enough to afford real wheels. If i curb a $100 wheel NBD, you know?
@JDMized Wow, I have not read one comment from you that hasn't been negatively charged... You sure spend a lot of time bitching about whats wrong with every other post on SH.
Amen.
The company that puts sweat and blood into building a great product goes far and beyond to make sure the part can withstand a harsh environment (aka R&D).....it cost money, but totally worth it.
Those kids fresh out of high school/ college don't realize that their life is worth more than a set of Rota.
I swear this site has featured a car sporting a 'knock off' Mini shell, so much so it reproduced the Mk1 exterior door hinges and even went so far as to have a Mini logo on it. No disrespect to the car, its amazing, and I did struggle to find an example, but if there weren't a demand for replica parts, that body would not exist, and therefore neither would the car.
Would everyone rather the 'controversial article' feature a car as well modified as it was, but running on stock wheels and a standard roof? Ok, the roof maybe wouldn't look out of place, but I'm glad he swapped the wheels. Although I did wonder where the bonnet went.
It looks like we're not far off 50/50 for and against if you ignore the no feelings votes. I suppose we will have to accept we won't get some good articles to pander to the opinions of the rich kids.
@Brad_S Change hobby bud! If you're broke, and still want to impress your girl, there're still plenty of hobbies out there that are more economical and won't hurt your wallet.
Theres noting wrong with an inexpensive wheel, everyone has a budget and thats fine. The problem is the blatant COPYING of designs. Come up with something original and inexpensive, why copy? The copies detract from innovation and unique styles that take significant R&D to come up with.
Like how Watanabe Mags look like Minilites?
Or is it the other way round, both are from the 60s, which being 25, I don't remember very well.
@AlexanderEvensen YES !!! Cheap rims (not rimes) are cheap because no R&D was used to create that rim.
Do your research and look for companies that pour money and time into their rims. That way they are safe and don't crack on the first pothole.
If your rims fail on the road and crash, you could involve other innocent driver, how would you feel about that? Insurance claims, paper work to fill out, medical bills to pay.....yes, a dumb decision to get cheap rims!
And your point is?
Yes I bitch a lot. I've been around this scene before you were born, and in the past few years I grew jaded about the whole blog-BS talking and hyping shit up for no reason.
My standards are a bit higher than yours, what can I say?
@MichaelZanghi
Either, change you job, where you can make more money, or change hobby. There are many hobbies out there that are more affordable.
I don't think it should matter. If i can buy repliuca wheels that cost $150 a wheel versus $850, then that's more money i can use for other things. My car is built for purpose, to drift. Not so some snobby well off guy can look at it and be happy i spent $4000 on wheels. I've never had any issues with reps. I even have a knock-off ball bearing turbo, that's outlasted my friend $1500 Garrett. It is what it is. Maybe if these name brand companies wern't completely insane with heir prices, more people could support them . I doubt that if i smashed my te37 into a wall that volk would just hand me another one. One day, when i can afford those parts, i'll buy them. Until then, the less money i spend on my car, means the more money i have for tires and drift events.
@AlexanderEvensen You build a car for yourself....not because you want a feature in a X magazine!
Do lots and lots of research before you buy parts. And when in doubt, simply ask! There are many forums out there.....but don't believe everything you read. Take everything with a grain of salt!
@JDMized I have a set of work equip 01's on my 20V hachi and a set of BBS RSGT on my lexus
I voted that knockoffs are okay... what the hell do I care? I bought higher quality wheels for my cars, but when it comes time to buy spares for the hachi I'll buy some cheapies. It's fine. Real wheels break too. Both have their place, I just wish that the cheap wheel companies wouldn't make carbon copies. It's just boring that way.
@JDMized Shut up. Your scenarios are like 1 in a million. and don't make sense. If a radiator cracks your motor will not just blow up. You would notice it right away and pull over. If your exhaust breaks you hear it and pull over. this isn't final destination. And besides even knock offs aren't that cheap. I have xxr wheels and a real stiff ride and I daily my car and have hit nasty bumps many times. My friend bought real wheels and bent all four of them going thru an intersection that was being repaved. And unless you have more money than you know what to do with why would you spend so much money on brand name piece of pipe. Buy a muffler and have a shop bend and weld the rest. The only reason I would buy real wheels is because so many of them look awesome. And most cheap wheels are ugly and have bad offsets. You are a moron.
I have a 200SX S14A and a mixture of genuine and 'knock-off' parts. For example, I have genuine Work Meister S1s (in manly sizes!) and a genuine Nardi steering wheel, with a genuine (as far as I can tell, anyway) Bride passenger seat, but on the other hand, I know for sure that my driver's Bride and my Takata harness are replica parts.
I have just finished an apprenticeship and don't earn a lot, I buy what I can afford. At the moment I just spent all my wages on some engine upgrades. I think that sometimes you just buy what you can at that time, if it is real or fake, what does your bank account care? As long as it does the same job! But I do also feel that genuine parts are sometimes better. I also hate it when people blatantly lie about knock offs being real. I never lie about that shit!
@JDMized How do you know when he was born? And does it matter that you've been in the scene that long?
@JDMized Wow, I had a typo and added an "e" there.Show me statistics that show that your so-called "fake" parts are the cause of a lot of accidents.
I´m from Germany and here we´ve got to prove every 2 years that the parts are road legal
.If you buy cheap knock off parts which did not pass the Tests from
our TÜV Institution to get the offical approvement,or they didn´t try, every cop is allowed to take your license plate off.
To get this TÜV brand on their parts the companies got to pass some tests for stability and so on.As those are not cheap there is less copyingstyles due to the fact that all have to reach the same minimum in quality ,when they are producing for example new aero parts.The biggest difference between the parts will be their looks.
For wheels it´s the same ,but the most replics which are built are copies of OEM wheels or Styles of known Companies as BSS which are already out of production
BBS Speedline for example,credits to the one who can afford a used ,and being in good condition, original set,but no shame to the guy who
buies the replic and as long as the replic producer gots the TÜV certification for his replic,the customer can be sure that this set will not crack at 150mph.
The Audi RS4 wheels are another example if you see what the original Audi ones cost (and those are not produced by Audi itself) and how much you get charged for the replics you can decide ,if the design research is worth the surcharge as in quality the difference is not so bigThat´s the luck in Germany you´re not so free in what you can add to your (roadlegal)car,there are not so much companies you can choose from,but you can be sure that even cheaper parts(with certificate) are save.
@JDMized @Brad_S How can you tell him to change his hobby just because he cant afford over priced wheels. Your the one who should change hobbies since you seem to be in it for the wrong reasons.
@AlexanderEvensen From how he replied I can assure you he hasn't been in the scene for a long time.
Does it matter how long I've been in the scene? It matters to me, 'cause I can make educated guess about what's a good product and a shitty one.
The longer you have been around, the more likely you are to understand what works and what doesn't. (good-genuine parts vs. Chinese knock off parts).
@okaycolin Real wheels do break as well, but like I said, it's unlikely. And if they do, call the company you bought it from, and I garantee you, they'll help you 100%.
How do you get points on ur account? Im a noob on Speedhunters.
why buy replicas wheels, when you can buy cheap original design wheels (like Rotiform cast)? how can you be proud of your build when is done with cheap ebay parts and replicas? you can afford new Rays, why don't you buy used Rays? You made a nice looking car with Racelands coilovers and Rota wheels? you have no merit.
@PSUwagon My ex used to drive a hachi. She did pull over right away when the smoke was bellowing out of the hood.
She couldn't afford a nice radiator. I suggested her to buy some Fluidyne, Koyo or the like.....she didn't listen to me, went ahead and bought a cheap Mishimoto crap (not a Japanese company, despite the name).....the radiator (aluminum, mind you) cracked.....and the engine caught on fire.....the car literally blew up on the freeway (880 southbound in Milpitas, CA).
Not a pretty scene.
In my opinion, people are always going to buy what they can afford, as much as they may want a genuine part, sometimes the price can be unobtainable for most, this can be dependant on where you are in the world too. As for getting a new hobby, just because this scene is expensive, to me is unfair, people have to start somewhere, and not everyone has the means to afford the genuine parts outright straight away. If your building a dedicated street car that is never really going to push the limit of replica- not knock off- parts, then to me its okay, but if your building a car that you intend on using in a manner that will push everything to the absolute limits, then I see it as being in your best interest to get the genuine bits to ensure quality, long life, and most importantly safety.
I live in christchurch, NZ and at the moment after the earthquakes and everything else we've had here, theres no way that I would spend $3-4k on a genuine set of wheels, as a good percentage of the roads here are borderline F****d. Does that mean that if my car rocked a set of replica wheels that I pay a third or half of that for, that I never claimed to be a genuine set, I'm now considered by some people, judging by their comments, ruining the genuine parts industry?
Theres so many variables, I think people are better off taking a car for what it is, and not what it could, or should be in their mind.
This scene is all about each to their own, not each to the majority,or all we'd have is a whole bunch of cars, that are all the same.
@PSUwagon and where does your "educated" guess come from? I'm in for the wrong reason? How? Prove it!!!!
MIke Garrett, seriously, considering taking down this article an re-wording it with clear distinctions by what is meant by 'knock-off' and 'replica', and more to a point, fraudulent parts. I don't support cheap quality knock-offs, but I do support well made parts are similar to the originators. . there's plenty of fake HKS SSQV blow off valves on ebay, and most are garbage, and are posing as HKS parts. those are clear fraudulent parts. But, if someone manufactures a quality BOV that looks and functions similarly to the HKS model, I don't see the harm in allowing tuners access to more affordable parts.
@JDMized Jumping to conclusions on all points i see. I can't see how my reply was much of an Indicator. I nearly have my Mechanical Engineering Degree, I have been a fabricator for probably longer than you have been. I understand stress and strengths of materials at an engineering level. I also have a full shop and build more parts than i purchase. I don't spend a lot of time posting replies because I am busy doing substantial things like working, going to school, building cars, etc. Just every post I see troll posts from you making blanket statements about quality of work, parts, etc. You spend more time knocking peoples workmanship (with hardly enough evidence to do so aside from some pictures) than you probably do contributing to the scene as a whole.
Most people need to realize that their precious "real" wheels are sometimes copies of older designs.Google these:
"DeTomaso Mangusta" -The stock Campagnolo wheels were imitated my Hayashi
"BBS E50" -SSR directly copied these wheels for their Formula Mesh wheels.
The fact is that there is no such thing as "fake wheels". If your car is rolling on them, trust me, they're real. QUALITY is a COMPLETE different subject.
@JDMized I agree with you on many points. and i applaud the facts that you have the balls to stand up for yourself and you believe in even when the rest just try to get on the bandwagon and dont care how much they are hurting the industry they claim to love so much by supporting these fly-bye-night companies that does not give tow rat's asses about their costumers and their safety.
I love my drift car. It's rockin Weds. Chose them because I could afford them and I really like the design/color/offset. I did not buy them because they are "legit." But, if the next guy decides to put cheaper wheels on his car that is just awesome. Why? Because we all have that choice. Why should so many of us give a shit about what someone else does to their car? Not like you would tell the XXR or Rota rockin guy that his wheel choice sucks because they weren't more expensive. However, I would have no problem telling a knock-off wheel company how I dont like the fact they make an exact copy/look of a wheel. That should be fraudulent. Like selling fake Louis Vuitton gear in San Francisco.If a publication wants to feature a car with cheap wheels that is their choice. Anybody seen the knock-off businesses in China? I saw an Apple outlet called Apple Store. Everything was knocked off. There is even a knock-off McDonalds, KFC, and Taco Bell.
@JDMized @okaycolin PS. I should add that my old S13 track car was built from a stack of megan parts and always ran XXR wheels. That car got the SNOT beat out of it and it was fine.
It's not like it's the end of the world if you go with a cheaper/lower quality product.
I guess what I"m getting at is that I don't see what all the animosity towards cheaper parts is all about. I had tons of track miles on cheap china-made parts and they never once failed me.
@JDMized @PSUwagon He's saying you'd rather argue about genuine parts than enjoy a car regardless of the parts.
"We really don’t have boundaries when it comes to car features. As long as it’s cool and interesting we’ll shoot it." This quotation taken from the "Are you a Speedhunter" post a few days ago. I believe everyone should be given the freedom to choose what they want, replica or not. I am all in favor of having no limitation on what gets featured. My interpretation of journalism is that it should be unbiased and represents any topic from all points of view and not necessarily the one that gets the most readers or the least amount of hate. Choose what fits your budget, but for me with two kids, one going through college, I am going to get the most quality I can afford. If I piss someone off or lose some respect, so be it
i don't really care if i bought some crazy rare one-off mugen wheel and then some bro down the street has a rota of the same wheel, just like i wouldn't care if i had a legitimate AC cobra and the neighbor had a superperformance car. my tastes and ideals should obviously only apply to me, and what anyone else does is his or her business. I definitely understand that it's way easier to get ahold of a rota than it is to find a legit nismo lmgt4
my problem is with the misrepresentation by the OWNER. i.e. if neighbor superperformance guy was telling me his cobra was also legitimate when i can clearly see the superperformance sticker he bought, and also it's sitting on rotas which he says are legit te37s (bad choice but whatever) then something's wrong.
buy what you can afford, but be honest about it. at the end of the day, nobody REALLY cares if your parts are real rare parts or plentiful re-production parts (except maybe the crew chief and mechanics in a racing team, they might be annoyed) but nobody likes it when people lie about things that they own
@JDMized
If you're "JDM", you haven't been in the "scene" long at all. Furthermore, all your precious "JDM" manufacturers have blatantly copied wheel designs. SSR, Volk, Enkei.. all copy european manufacturers' designs once in a while. I own a set of SSR reverse mesh and they're pretty exact copies of the BBS E50
In the end what really matters is safety and honesty...yes people can make replicas if they say it loud "this is a visual copy of X wheel, it's not as light, as tough, as perfect but at least is safe". Think it as a fashion item, we all see what is selling and what's not so we have Armani, Hugo Boss and so on selling quality products. Others do their "vision" of that season very similar to the big guys because "it's what is selling", but you never see a boss tag on a shirt made by Zara or Millets. You know they will not last as long, feel as soft, look as perfectly made, but they have the looks and you're paying what you're getting. I don't think it hurts the industry, everyone who has the money to buy quality buys it either ways, the others buy something different or don't buy at all... Now, should a company like Rota try to make their own quality, original design wheels? Yes they should! Should BBS and Volk try to make cheaper (not so light, secure enough to daily use, may be not so refined) versions of their own wheels to those who can't afford the top quality items and use that money to make even better top stuff? Yes please! (even if a low end Volk was more expensive that a rota due to safety requirements) What I really hate are all companies who claim to be something they’re not, companies that sell unsafe stuff...
@JDMized @AlexanderEvensen exactly! you don't have to have brand name parts, but you do have to take all the consequences that come with the off brand. for a street car, you can get away with knock offs, but if you track your car, I expect you to have some sort of knowledge of the strength and durability of your parts
I think we've all forgotten why we're in this hobby. We do it for the cars, not for the 'real or replica' parts. Why would you bug somebody if they decide to use knock off or replica parts? It's their choice, their car, and their money. Maybe sometimes replicas and knock offs aren't always as good quality, but that isn't always the case. I think all the butt-hurt people who are totally against replicas and knock-offs need to calm down. My only gripe is that if a wheel is a replica, or a knock-off, it should be stated on the packaging. Other than that, who cares? Build your car how you want, how you can, how you can afford it, and enjoy it. Not everybody is loaded with cash up to their necks. Why can't we all just enjoy a car without arguing? I don't get it, it's stupid.
Why is this even a debate? Are you guys blind to what's has been happening to our industry in the last 5-10 years?
I wouldn't say replicas hurt the industry, and to say so would be a bit short sighted. Like a band starting out that plays covers, if they do it well, then they usually tend to get into their own stuff. So in a nutshell you have a wise choice as an upstart in any market. I also think that preferring one over the other changes as you become more educated: You can usually (but not always) count on the big bucks realdeal parts to deliver without knowing much or having to do any work yourself, but as time goes on, the price of knock offs is usually worth it for many parts as the time investment in fitting the piece(s) is easier than watching that money leave your pocket for a name brand. /debate.
Personally, if I threw a bunch of replica and knock off parts at my car if I could have bought the legit versions, I would never be happy with it.
In my opinion...
The majority of people following this or similar forums, its all about fashion/looks. Many brag about how rare or how expensive their wheels are. They spend countless hours polishing & detailing their cars so they can post pictures or go hard-parking @ meets. They have the gazillion-way adjustable suspension & ultra-sticky track tires...but the car is slammed w/ demon-camber...barely sees the public roads (it scrapes everywhere) nor any race tracks (doesn't really perform better than stock, maybe worse). That's all fine & dandy...but...
There are the "drivers" who actually use their cars, both as transportation, as well as canyon-carving & racing toys. I'd like to think of myself as one of these. That said, although I can't speak for everyone else...I still want my car to look nice & I still want it to perform. However, I have to choose a happy medium between "real" stuff & and "off brand" stuff. Of course I would love to sport some $10,000 set of wheels weighing only 9lbs each...but one little scratch & it will hurt alot more. At the same time, I don't like used stuff.
If the part does the job (whether that means looking good and/or improves performance...or God forbid, both)...then that's all that should matter. There are lots of off-brand/new companies producing very good products that may or may not "look like" some other established brand's offerings. Just because it doesn't say "made in Japan" (or Germany or Italy, etc.) doesn't mean its crappy shit. As for whether or not these guys are ruining the industry...I highly disagree. Remember that old saying about imitation being the most sincere form of flattery?
There are many types of car enthusiasts in the world, and they all have their own opinions/views/financial situations: The hard-parking label whore (all name brand parts, bought used on Craigslist, car drives like shit)...The hard-core guy with connections (no brand, custom-fabricated, one-off parts that perform)...The weekend racer on a budget (good stuff that works, not necessarily brand name)...The baller (exotic car owner who thinks old cars are just shit no matter how many rare parts or horsepower it has). Which one are you?
We all love cars, no need for hating. Enjoy the drive!
I made
Personally I see nothing wrong with replicas as long as they are constructed decent. I mean Rotas have been around for awhile or forever it seems & they make some good looking wheels. I don't have the money that some do to spend on really rare wheels so I have to save up. On the other hand, there is something about having the real deal brand on your car & of course you get more "street" cred if you have the real deal. If you want to spend thousands on real brands then thats your right, but if Jo Blow wants to spend less on reps then thats his right too & I don't think anyone should be bashed for doing his/her on thing..........I'm sure if you want to help out & buy them a set of wheels.............well I'm sure they'd be very thankful!!!!
replicas ok especially in drifting because you go through parts so fast
Well said my friend.
i think it is just a matter of personal preference and budget. it also depends on the part and the type of motor sport that you take part in.
To all the people saying "I'm only buying what I can afford", that's fine, but the debate isn't about cheap parts vs expensive parts, it is about 'knock-off' parts vs 'legit' parts. There are plenty of options for people who want cheaper parts without having to support companies who hurt the aftermarket industry
i can recall GST turning some very impressive lap times with their Rota wheels...
im sorta split on the two.... yes reps hurt the industry and all but at the end of the day people dont have £££££'s to spend on JUST wheels!
and also with reps you wont cry each time you see a little suff mark!
personally if i had the monies that yeah i would buy orignals without even looking at reps!
Replicas do not hurt the industry, they just keep prices from running away on the real deals. Less gross profit means more efficiency in the market, increasing net profit for the industry.
I prefer the legit stuff. If I can't afford it at the moment I either prioritize or just save up. I always try to get the best I can within my budget or economic capabilities...
I prefer the legit stuff. If I can't afford it at the moment I either prioritize or just save up. I always try to get the best I can within my budget or economic capabilities...
I prefer the legit stuff. If I can't afford it at the moment I either prioritize or just save up. I always try to get the best I can within my budget or economic capabilities...
I prefer the legit stuff. If I can't afford it at the moment I either prioritize or just save up. I always try to get the best I can within my budget or economic capabilities...
well said times two
i beat the snot out of my cars, my rota's have taken a beating and survived. sure the real deal is great but i have a family to raise first cars are second. maybe the real deal brand names should start making some nice price point wheels that compete at the same level.
well said times two
i beat the snot out of my cars, my rota's have taken a beating and survived. sure the real deal is great but i have a family to raise first cars are second. maybe the real deal brand names should start making some nice price point wheels that compete at the same level.
well said times two
i beat the snot out of my cars, my rota's have taken a beating and survived. sure the real deal is great but i have a family to raise first cars are second. maybe the real deal brand names should start making some nice price point wheels that compete at the same level.
well said times two
i beat the snot out of my cars, my rota's have taken a beating and survived. sure the real deal is great but i have a family to raise first cars are second. maybe the real deal brand names should start making some nice price point wheels that compete at the same level.
Reals are very expensive, and personally, If you like to run your car very hard or drift occasionally, you know that they get preyys messed up at times.... so reals for rolling and Reps for Thrashing
Reals are very expensive, and personally, If you like to run your car very hard or drift occasionally, you know that they get preyys messed up at times.... so reals for rolling and Reps for Thrashing
Reals are very expensive, and personally, If you like to run your car very hard or drift occasionally, you know that they get preyys messed up at times.... so reals for rolling and Reps for Thrashing
Reals are very expensive, and personally, If you like to run your car very hard or drift occasionally, you know that they get preyys messed up at times.... so reals for rolling and Reps for Thrashing
anyways If I make the fake one look real some hater will steal it anyway
anyways If I make the fake one look real some hater will steal it anyway
anyways If I make the fake one look real some hater will steal it anyway
anyways If I make the fake one look real some hater will steal it anyway
Have a look online at the fake branded HKS turbo timers, Greedy waste gates and blow off valves, this is where things should be focused. Rota wheels are branded as rota wheels, sure the are a rip off of visually but they are not claiming to be te37s. You know that when you purchase them, and it allows you to spend more on decent tyres where you actually get a benefit. I'm not against copys but I am against fakes.
Have a look online at the fake branded HKS turbo timers, Greedy waste gates and blow off valves, this is where things should be focused. Rota wheels are branded as rota wheels, sure the are a rip off of visually but they are not claiming to be te37s. You know that when you purchase them, and it allows you to spend more on decent tyres where you actually get a benefit. I'm not against copys but I am against fakes.
Have a look online at the fake branded HKS turbo timers, Greedy waste gates and blow off valves, this is where things should be focused. Rota wheels are branded as rota wheels, sure the are a rip off of visually but they are not claiming to be te37s. You know that when you purchase them, and it allows you to spend more on decent tyres where you actually get a benefit. I'm not against copys but I am against fakes.
Have a look online at the fake branded HKS turbo timers, Greedy waste gates and blow off valves, this is where things should be focused. Rota wheels are branded as rota wheels, sure the are a rip off of visually but they are not claiming to be te37s. You know that when you purchase them, and it allows you to spend more on decent tyres where you actually get a benefit. I'm not against copys but I am against fakes.
@KillerRaccoon This is so painfully wrong... If everyone thought like this there would be no one to make the real deal parts in the first place..
@KillerRaccoon This is so painfully wrong... If everyone thought like this there would be no one to make the real deal parts in the first place..
@KillerRaccoon This is so painfully wrong... If everyone thought like this there would be no one to make the real deal parts in the first place..
@KillerRaccoon This is so painfully wrong... If everyone thought like this there would be no one to make the real deal parts in the first place..
@KillerRaccoon This is so painfully wrong... If everyone thought like this there would be no one to make the real deal parts in the first place..
@KillerRaccoon This is so painfully wrong... If everyone thought like this there would be no one to make the real deal parts in the first place..
@KillerRaccoon This is so painfully wrong... If everyone thought like this there would be no one to make the real deal parts in the first place..
@KillerRaccoon This is so painfully wrong... If everyone thought like this there would be no one to make the real deal parts in the first place..
Buy whatever will be SAFE for the type of driving you do. Safety > everything
Buy whatever will be SAFE for the type of driving you do. Safety > everything
Buy whatever will be SAFE for the type of driving you do. Safety > everything
Buy whatever will be SAFE for the type of driving you do. Safety > everything
As a product designer, I can tell you- nothing feels worse than to work your @$$ off building something - perfecting it... and then some schmuck with money just steals your hard work!!! Copying is theft. If the real product is gone, or not available, than an "homage" is acceptable. But ripping off companies' hard work, with inferior craftsmanship, should be punishable with torture.
As a product designer, I can tell you- nothing feels worse than to work your @$$ off building something - perfecting it... and then some schmuck with money just steals your hard work!!! Copying is theft. If the real product is gone, or not available, than an "homage" is acceptable. But ripping off companies' hard work, with inferior craftsmanship, should be punishable with torture.
As a product designer, I can tell you- nothing feels worse than to work your @$$ off building something - perfecting it... and then some schmuck with money just steals your hard work!!! Copying is theft. If the real product is gone, or not available, than an "homage" is acceptable. But ripping off companies' hard work, with inferior craftsmanship, should be punishable with torture.
As a product designer, I can tell you- nothing feels worse than to work your @$$ off building something - perfecting it... and then some schmuck with money just steals your hard work!!! Copying is theft. If the real product is gone, or not available, than an "homage" is acceptable. But ripping off companies' hard work, with inferior craftsmanship, should be punishable with torture.
@KillerRaccoon another ignorant punk. It costs far more money to forge a wheel, than it costs to cast it. A forged wheel won't crack at Laguna Seca, when you overcork Rainey curve, and hit dirt. Fake garbage is garbage. Only punk kids with no money or education think fakes are ok.
@KillerRaccoon another ignorant punk. It costs far more money to forge a wheel, than it costs to cast it. A forged wheel won't crack at Laguna Seca, when you overcork Rainey curve, and hit dirt. Fake garbage is garbage. Only punk kids with no money or education think fakes are ok.
@KillerRaccoon another ignorant punk. It costs far more money to forge a wheel, than it costs to cast it. A forged wheel won't crack at Laguna Seca, when you overcork Rainey curve, and hit dirt. Fake garbage is garbage. Only punk kids with no money or education think fakes are ok.
@KillerRaccoon another ignorant punk. It costs far more money to forge a wheel, than it costs to cast it. A forged wheel won't crack at Laguna Seca, when you overcork Rainey curve, and hit dirt. Fake garbage is garbage. Only punk kids with no money or education think fakes are ok.
Buy whatever you can afford, I couldn't care less whether someone's running knock off parts. Its there car not mine.
Buy whatever you can afford, I couldn't care less whether someone's running knock off parts. Its there car not mine.
Buy whatever you can afford, I couldn't care less whether someone's running knock off parts. Its there car not mine.
Buy whatever you can afford, I couldn't care less whether someone's running knock off parts. Its there car not mine.
I couldn't care less about whether people other than me run knock off parts. I've never used or bought any knock off's but if someone wants to run them hey, more power to them. After all it is their car.
I couldn't care less about whether people other than me run knock off parts. I've never used or bought any knock off's but if someone wants to run them hey, more power to them. After all it is their car.
I couldn't care less about whether people other than me run knock off parts. I've never used or bought any knock off's but if someone wants to run them hey, more power to them. After all it is their car.
I couldn't care less about whether people other than me run knock off parts. I've never used or bought any knock off's but if someone wants to run them hey, more power to them. After all it is their car.
Company B making a similar looking wheel/part to company A and selling it under their own brand isn't the problem.Company B making a close to identical looking wheel/part, branding it with company A's logo and selling it as if it was produced by company A is.
Company B making a similar looking wheel/part to company A and selling it under their own brand isn't the problem.Company B making a close to identical looking wheel/part, branding it with company A's logo and selling it as if it was produced by company A is.
Company B making a similar looking wheel/part to company A and selling it under their own brand isn't the problem.Company B making a close to identical looking wheel/part, branding it with company A's logo and selling it as if it was produced by company A is.
Company B making a similar looking wheel/part to company A and selling it under their own brand isn't the problem.Company B making a close to identical looking wheel/part, branding it with company A's logo and selling it as if it was produced by company A is.
@bakayaru Agreed. I don't care if you buy a cheap product, just don't buy one that is a rip-off and ride on somebody else's hard work and brand recognition.
@bakayaru Agreed. I don't care if you buy a cheap product, just don't buy one that is a rip-off and ride on somebody else's hard work and brand recognition.
@bakayaru Agreed. I don't care if you buy a cheap product, just don't buy one that is a rip-off and ride on somebody else's hard work and brand recognition.
@bakayaru Agreed. I don't care if you buy a cheap product, just don't buy one that is a rip-off and ride on somebody else's hard work and brand recognition.
@Melvin H There is such a thing as cheap wheels that aren't knock-offs. Use those, and not the ones that rip off somebody else's hard work.
@Melvin H There is such a thing as cheap wheels that aren't knock-offs. Use those, and not the ones that rip off somebody else's hard work.
@Melvin H There is such a thing as cheap wheels that aren't knock-offs. Use those, and not the ones that rip off somebody else's hard work.
@Melvin H There is such a thing as cheap wheels that aren't knock-offs. Use those, and not the ones that rip off somebody else's hard work.
@Ikazuchi @bakayaru Very much so. It's ironic that people will buy a fake Takata harness that has never passed any safety tests when they could get a genuine FIA approved harness from a brand that isn't "cool" for less money.
@Ikazuchi @bakayaru Very much so. It's ironic that people will buy a fake Takata harness that has never passed any safety tests when they could get a genuine FIA approved harness from a brand that isn't "cool" for less money.
@Ikazuchi @bakayaru Very much so. It's ironic that people will buy a fake Takata harness that has never passed any safety tests when they could get a genuine FIA approved harness from a brand that isn't "cool" for less money.
@Ikazuchi @bakayaru Very much so. It's ironic that people will buy a fake Takata harness that has never passed any safety tests when they could get a genuine FIA approved harness from a brand that isn't "cool" for less money.
@Ikazuchi @Melvin H Or buy used wheels and refurb them. I've had 3 sets of Enkei's and a set of Work's for less than any one of those sets would've cost new.
@Ikazuchi @Melvin H Or buy used wheels and refurb them. I've had 3 sets of Enkei's and a set of Work's for less than any one of those sets would've cost new.
@Ikazuchi @Melvin H Or buy used wheels and refurb them. I've had 3 sets of Enkei's and a set of Work's for less than any one of those sets would've cost new.
@Ikazuchi @Melvin H Or buy used wheels and refurb them. I've had 3 sets of Enkei's and a set of Work's for less than any one of those sets would've cost new.
Okay - so to all of you that think knock-offs are okay, have you ever worked hard to make something of quality and build a brand that represents that quality? I'm willing to bet that you have not, because then you'd understand how bad knock-offs are. Companies who create unauthorized replicas of original designs are stealing, and you're supporting them. You should be ashamed of yourself.
There is such a thing as cheap wheels and other aftermarket parts. These were designed and created to be a low-cost product. If you want to put these on your vehicle, have at it. If you don't want to put some awesome HRE P40s on your beater drift car, makes perfect sense - so buy some used stock wheels or cheap wheels on eBay.
Okay - so to all of you that think knock-offs are okay, have you ever worked hard to make something of quality and build a brand that represents that quality? I'm willing to bet that you have not, because then you'd understand how bad knock-offs are. Companies who create unauthorized replicas of original designs are stealing, and you're supporting them. You should be ashamed of yourself.
There is such a thing as cheap wheels and other aftermarket parts. These were designed and created to be a low-cost product. If you want to put these on your vehicle, have at it. If you don't want to put some awesome HRE P40s on your beater drift car, makes perfect sense - so buy some used stock wheels or cheap wheels on eBay.
Okay - so to all of you that think knock-offs are okay, have you ever worked hard to make something of quality and build a brand that represents that quality? I'm willing to bet that you have not, because then you'd understand how bad knock-offs are. Companies who create unauthorized replicas of original designs are stealing, and you're supporting them. You should be ashamed of yourself.
There is such a thing as cheap wheels and other aftermarket parts. These were designed and created to be a low-cost product. If you want to put these on your vehicle, have at it. If you don't want to put some awesome HRE P40s on your beater drift car, makes perfect sense - so buy some used stock wheels or cheap wheels on eBay.
Okay - so to all of you that think knock-offs are okay, have you ever worked hard to make something of quality and build a brand that represents that quality? I'm willing to bet that you have not, because then you'd understand how bad knock-offs are. Companies who create unauthorized replicas of original designs are stealing, and you're supporting them. You should be ashamed of yourself.
There is such a thing as cheap wheels and other aftermarket parts. These were designed and created to be a low-cost product. If you want to put these on your vehicle, have at it. If you don't want to put some awesome HRE P40s on your beater drift car, makes perfect sense - so buy some used stock wheels or cheap wheels on eBay.
I have no strong feelings one way or another.
Not really much point in resisting the flow of fake stuff from China and other places where shady manufacturing takes place. If I want the real stuff, I'll get the real stuff.
I have no strong feelings one way or another.
Not really much point in resisting the flow of fake stuff from China and other places where shady manufacturing takes place. If I want the real stuff, I'll get the real stuff.
I have no strong feelings one way or another.
Not really much point in resisting the flow of fake stuff from China and other places where shady manufacturing takes place. If I want the real stuff, I'll get the real stuff.
I have no strong feelings one way or another.
Not really much point in resisting the flow of fake stuff from China and other places where shady manufacturing takes place. If I want the real stuff, I'll get the real stuff.
If you can't afford to modify a car properly then don't modify it at all. I don't see these dipshits with roof racks, stickerbombed stock cars on blackies and rota's fake body kits, fake seats, fake, fake, fake... yeah those same cats ain't wearing fake ass new era hats, or fake ass jordan shoes, or fake ass sunglasses. It's actually funny some of them cats be wearing fake illest shit. Trying to get a taste of that hypebeast life.
If you can't afford to modify a car properly then don't modify it at all. I don't see these dipshits with roof racks, stickerbombed stock cars on blackies and rota's fake body kits, fake seats, fake, fake, fake... yeah those same cats ain't wearing fake ass new era hats, or fake ass jordan shoes, or fake ass sunglasses. It's actually funny some of them cats be wearing fake illest shit. Trying to get a taste of that hypebeast life.
If you can't afford to modify a car properly then don't modify it at all. I don't see these dipshits with roof racks, stickerbombed stock cars on blackies and rota's fake body kits, fake seats, fake, fake, fake... yeah those same cats ain't wearing fake ass new era hats, or fake ass jordan shoes, or fake ass sunglasses. It's actually funny some of them cats be wearing fake illest shit. Trying to get a taste of that hypebeast life.
If you can't afford to modify a car properly then don't modify it at all. I don't see these dipshits with roof racks, stickerbombed stock cars on blackies and rota's fake body kits, fake seats, fake, fake, fake... yeah those same cats ain't wearing fake ass new era hats, or fake ass jordan shoes, or fake ass sunglasses. It's actually funny some of them cats be wearing fake illest shit. Trying to get a taste of that hypebeast life.
I have a set of genuine BBS RS, SSR professors, wantanabes, buddy clubs and work equips. All of which I bought second hand in good condition and each set cost less than a set of new rotas.
The dollar argument is pretty void, if you cant afford genuine buy genuine second hand. Simple as that. They are better quality, more unique and have more resale value. But you have to put effort into finding good deals. And most people dont want to put in the effort, they want to have something that looks cool and they want it asap with the least cash and/or effort. And lets not lie, most people buy wheels for their looks. So if you dont have cash and dont want to put in the effort to find a bargain or think outside the box go buy shitty original rims or get a hobby that you can afford to do properly, not half arsed.
I have a set of genuine BBS RS, SSR professors, wantanabes, buddy clubs and work equips. All of which I bought second hand in good condition and each set cost less than a set of new rotas.
The dollar argument is pretty void, if you cant afford genuine buy genuine second hand. Simple as that. They are better quality, more unique and have more resale value. But you have to put effort into finding good deals. And most people dont want to put in the effort, they want to have something that looks cool and they want it asap with the least cash and/or effort. And lets not lie, most people buy wheels for their looks. So if you dont have cash and dont want to put in the effort to find a bargain or think outside the box go buy shitty original rims or get a hobby that you can afford to do properly, not half arsed.
I have a set of genuine BBS RS, SSR professors, wantanabes, buddy clubs and work equips. All of which I bought second hand in good condition and each set cost less than a set of new rotas.
The dollar argument is pretty void, if you cant afford genuine buy genuine second hand. Simple as that. They are better quality, more unique and have more resale value. But you have to put effort into finding good deals. And most people dont want to put in the effort, they want to have something that looks cool and they want it asap with the least cash and/or effort. And lets not lie, most people buy wheels for their looks. So if you dont have cash and dont want to put in the effort to find a bargain or think outside the box go buy shitty original rims or get a hobby that you can afford to do properly, not half arsed.
I have a set of genuine BBS RS, SSR professors, wantanabes, buddy clubs and work equips. All of which I bought second hand in good condition and each set cost less than a set of new rotas.
The dollar argument is pretty void, if you cant afford genuine buy genuine second hand. Simple as that. They are better quality, more unique and have more resale value. But you have to put effort into finding good deals. And most people dont want to put in the effort, they want to have something that looks cool and they want it asap with the least cash and/or effort. And lets not lie, most people buy wheels for their looks. So if you dont have cash and dont want to put in the effort to find a bargain or think outside the box go buy shitty original rims or get a hobby that you can afford to do properly, not half arsed.
And people spending more money to buy fake brides or Recaros instead of buying second hand or even new sparcos! IF THAT IS YOU, THEN YOU HAVE FAILED AT LIFE. PLEASE REMOVE YOURSELF FROM THE GENE POOL.
And people spending more money to buy fake brides or Recaros instead of buying second hand or even new sparcos! IF THAT IS YOU, THEN YOU HAVE FAILED AT LIFE. PLEASE REMOVE YOURSELF FROM THE GENE POOL.
And people spending more money to buy fake brides or Recaros instead of buying second hand or even new sparcos! IF THAT IS YOU, THEN YOU HAVE FAILED AT LIFE. PLEASE REMOVE YOURSELF FROM THE GENE POOL.
And people spending more money to buy fake brides or Recaros instead of buying second hand or even new sparcos! IF THAT IS YOU, THEN YOU HAVE FAILED AT LIFE. PLEASE REMOVE YOURSELF FROM THE GENE POOL.
@JDMized why don't you just stop saying this? This is a "Car Culture at Large", not a "car culture for the wealthy." People can like/own/modify cars if they want. You have made your safety point so many times it has annoyed most of us. Yes people should be safe but their choices come with their own consequences. Butt Out. Please let us all resume our love of the automobile without your all-to-frequent naggings. People can rep their ride however they want! Long live nice cars and their respective owners.
Rip-off parts with real logos on are a big fuckin' no-no. However, I think that replica wheels of designs that were around since the 80s, are OK. Especially since there are a lot of similar models from 'genuine' manufacturers (Work Meisters and SSR professors).
Therefore a TE37-lookalike ROTAs are OK if you don't have the money but do have the passion. But if you put a fake VOLK sticker on it... you're done in my book.
i only have an issue with fakes if they are trying to BE something else, (ie claiming to be recaro, HKS etc)
if they are making something and naming it their own (ie rota) then thats very different.
its quite simple, people are aware of the quality differences of other brands and they choose to buy them.
the problem is if you buy what you think is an HKS product and it turns out not to be, thats bad.
Thats whats ruining the market. FAKES, not other brands, dont get this mixed up.
Rota seem to get picked on a lot.
they dont advertise themselves as anybody but Rota, simple.
there is no real deal. nearly most of the OMG AWESOME VINTAGE JDM wheels are reps of ancient campalongo wheels.
@H05TYL
Well, duh.
@Vilko I hear this argument a lot. I don't have any strong feelings one way or the other, but I find it odd that nobody ever mentions the fact that you simply don't know the HISTORY of a part (be it a wheel or not) when you buy it second hand. How do you know it hasn't taken a bad hit and isn't flawed?
Originals, without them there would never even be replicas!
@Vilko Of course second hand parts are cheaper. You aren't the first person ive heard use the example of owning a few sets of "real" wheels bought second hand.
Heres my point. You didn't by them new. So how are you contributing to helping the manufacture acquire more capital for r&d?
All you've done is gone down the same path as the person who buys a knock off wheel. Couldn't/didn't want to outlay the amount of money for a new set so went and bought the cheaper replica/ second hand wheels.
Its like buying an armani suit second hand from a thrift shop.
@ simon I second your opinion. Replica's are okay as long as they're clearly annotate themselves as replicas and not "real deal" JDM parts or USDM/Euro marketed parts
@bakayaru Well said.
@okaycolin Cheaper parts are made without any R&D and safety in mind!!!
People and companies that run knock off brands don't give a damn about your ride and your safety.
They're in to fill their pockets with your hard-earned cash....and when your cheapo part breaks, (because it will if you push hard enough)....then what? Are you gonna go back to those sleazy folks and ask your money back? Good luck with that.
Genuine parts made by reputable companies have warranty and 99% of the companies out there that sell legit parts BACK UP THEIR PRODUCT 100%. That's why you pay a higher fee.
I don't think it should matter either way, as long they're quality parts.
So since we are on topic. I've seen a picture some where comparing Work vs-xx and bbs LM(?) and they look oddly familiar? so i don't hate either eay because even the real deal copy somewhere down the like
*don't hate either way because even the real deal copy somewhere down the line*
I'd usually say original but when the original is 20+ years old and 100 times original asking price and very hard to find then replica does the trick if it is of equal or greater quality.
The genuine "after market" performance parts producers actually test and engineer their products for a performance gain perspective."Knock offs" just steal designs and pump out as many units as they can produce from a monetary point of view.At the end of the day the saying goes, "you get what you pay for", and honestly you do.Real deal all the way for me. If you can't afford it, wait and save the extra cash, you'll save buying a replacement replica once it fails due to poor workmanship or undesirable expectations.
For I myself I only do legit original manufacturer parts and wheels. But I don't mind if other people has rotas or something. It still looks cool, it just weighs more and isn't as leet. I would buy the knockoffs if they were the same or higher quality than the originals, btw.
@petite pounder Not even close.
http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q59/Z-Tuned/?action=view¤t=_theworst.jpg
http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q59/Z-Tuned/?action=view¤t=IMG_0628.jpg
...end of conversation
@Vilko EXACTLY! i agree with sam.
I agree. As someone who has never bought ANY wheel first hand I don't think I have a right to comment one way or another on what someone else does in regards to wheel choices without feeling like a hypocrite.
My opinion on this is that there is a right time and place for "true" quaility parts. Most of the parts, rims especially that are most desirable are usually unattainable for the average Joe. I believe that if your car is worthy, track driven and requires the traits and performance from these parts that yes they should be used. If your wallet can't support your hobby then you will have to suffice with something less. Do your research, find what you need, get what you want. I'm a fan of praticality, parts that work and have the craftsmanship that I'm after. I want 3- peice wheels because of their versatility of sizing, weight, strength and the fact that I can rebuild them...not because the appearance of rivits look cool.
My opinion on this is that there is a right time and place for "true" quaility parts. Most of the parts, rims especially that are most desirable are usually unattainable for the average Joe. I believe that if your car is worthy, track driven and requires the traits and performance from these parts that yes they should be used. If your wallet can't support your hobby then you will have to suffice with something less. Do your research, find what you need, get what you want. I'm a fan of praticality, parts that work and have the craftsmanship that I'm after. I want 3- peice wheels because of their versatility of sizing, weight, strength and the fact that I can rebuild them...not because the appearance of rivits look cool.
My opinion on this is that there is a right time and place for "true" quaility parts. Most of the parts, rims especially that are most desirable are usually unattainable for the average Joe. I believe that if your car is worthy, track driven and requires the traits and performance from these parts that yes they should be used. If your wallet can't support your hobby then you will have to suffice with something less. Do your research, find what you need, get what you want. I'm a fan of praticality, parts that work and have the craftsmanship that I'm after. I want 3- peice wheels because of their versatility of sizing, weight, strength and the fact that I can rebuild them...not because the appearance of rivits look cool.
My opinion on this is that there is a right time and place for "true" quaility parts. Most of the parts, rims especially that are most desirable are usually unattainable for the average Joe. I believe that if your car is worthy, track driven and requires the traits and performance from these parts that yes they should be used. If your wallet can't support your hobby then you will have to suffice with something less. Do your research, find what you need, get what you want. I'm a fan of praticality, parts that work and have the craftsmanship that I'm after. I want 3- peice wheels because of their versatility of sizing, weight, strength and the fact that I can rebuild them...not because the appearance of rivits look cool.
@CrisCiunganu like anything else that gains popularity, it's true of many but not of all. Tons of people aren't in this because they have the same passion as you. Others are in it because it's a bit of a fad - a way to flaunt your money, or gain imaginary status, or be a part of something where you previously weren't.
Knockoffs exist on everything nowadays. From medicine to clothes.
What I think has gotten lost in this whole shuffle is that of quality, and more importantly, value. Something can be inexpensive, hell, downright dirt cheap, but be a horrendous value. Something else can be super expensive, and offer tremendous value. Value and price have nothing to do with one another. Country of origin has nothing to do with anything either. Quality goods come out of every corner of the globe in every facet of life. Being around this hobby for the past 20 years, I've seen great parts from 'offshore' companies, and I've seen junk from Japan. The modern forum interpretation of things, due mainly to the replica scene (but also other factors) is that price and value are synonyms. It's a phenomenon that has taken hold of society at large.
Take a TE37 - a quality, classic 6 spoke wheel. Volk didn't invent wheels, Volk didn't invent forged wheels, Volk didn't invent 6 spoke forged wheels. Volk did take a classic design and re-interpreted it for the class of car they mainly cater too. Certainly can't hate on that. There is no debate that a TE37 is a quality product, made of quality materials, in a quality environment. They are also expensive. They have always been expensive. They will always be expensive. Ferrari's have always been expensive too. So have houses in Monaco. That's why not everyone has a Ferrari, or a house in Monaco, or TE37's. But expensive doesn't mean overpriced. It just means expensive. And to others, a TE37 isn't close to expensive. It's downright cheap. It's all about your perspective, and your budget. Now along comes ABC Wheel Company. They make their own mold, and start making identical, albeit fake, TE37 and 1/3 the cost. People flock to them. Now, if the wheels are complete junk, that will come out in the wash. If the wheels aren't round, people won't continue to buy them. If the colors fade, or they constantly crack, or the paint flakes off that initial surge of sales will be all there is. There will be no endurance. Wheels will be damaged, people's lives and cars will be damaged, and the company will not survive. If the wheels meet a certain level of quality, then the company likely will grow and expand, and who knows, maybe eventually design their own uniue product. Or perhaps just continue to offer lower cost alternatives to expensive items. I don't see the point in hating on anyone who makes a quality product. Now this is not to say that the uber cool JDM product is exponentially superior merely because it shipped out of Toyko. Many of the "JDM" products people covet so much are not fully done in Japan. Many are simply rebranded versions of existing parts. Many of the "JDM" firms now are, essentially, marketing companies that don't actually fabricate anything. What separates them from lesser brands is the QC. But everyone's tolerance is different. What I'll never get and can't support, are the manufacturers making claims they cant support. Like a fake TE37 having "forged" on it, or similar occurances. Where does this leave Volk? Probably in the same boat they are in now. They make an expensive product. They always have. That is the market they cater to. They have a certain process by which a TE37 gets made. And no matter how many they sell, the price isn't going to go down. As expensive as they are, they also give the buyer tremendous value. The wheel is beautifully made. The paint used on the non limited edition ones are top notch. They last. They are light, insanely strong, come in a variety of sizes and offsets. They hold their value if well taken care of. That is a valuable product.
Now, Volk makes cast wheels too - a whole range of them. If the influx of knock offs hurt their business so much, perhaps they will jump in and offer a cast version of a TE37. The fake TE's out there, while cheap vs the genuine ones, aren't exactly 'cheap' by most people's standards. Its not like they are pocket change. So perhaps it will come to pass that these genuine companies take the replicas on at their own game. This is something I think they should do, but don't. High end companies have done it very successfully over the years. Whether you're making car parts, or t shirts, there are ways to flourish even when you're being copied. Or you can wallow in your stoic ways, and refuse to adapt to a shifting market. Some firms are totally content being a smaller, more focused version of what they once were. No shame in this at all. Others want to continuously expand. There are ways to do this successfully too. Rays/Volk has put their foot in the water by introducing different variations of the TE - lighter versions, less expensively painted versions, limited versions. While I am sure the lose a certain % of sales to a replica, I don't know if it's enough to put them out for good. So perhaps something they can try is to introduce their own, cast version. Or, do a side by side with all the competitors, and show why yours should and do cost more. Show people that the $1000 they spend on replicas is poor value, and while significantly more expensive, why yours are a great value.
I think an example of a company who has successfully taken this on is Tomei. Their products are now far more realistically priced than ever. And I am sure they are learning to live with a smaller piece of the margin pie than before. But it's also briging more people into the fold, and allowing them to expand their product line...albeit more carefully than before. Their titanium exhaust line is a quality product, affordably priced. Just one example.
@CrisCiunganu like anything else that gains popularity, it's true of many but not of all. Tons of people aren't in this because they have the same passion as you. Others are in it because it's a bit of a fad - a way to flaunt your money, or gain imaginary status, or be a part of something where you previously weren't.
Knockoffs exist on everything nowadays. From medicine to clothes.
What I think has gotten lost in this whole shuffle is that of quality, and more importantly, value. Something can be inexpensive, hell, downright dirt cheap, but be a horrendous value. Something else can be super expensive, and offer tremendous value. Value and price have nothing to do with one another. Country of origin has nothing to do with anything either. Quality goods come out of every corner of the globe in every facet of life. Being around this hobby for the past 20 years, I've seen great parts from 'offshore' companies, and I've seen junk from Japan. The modern forum interpretation of things, due mainly to the replica scene (but also other factors) is that price and value are synonyms. It's a phenomenon that has taken hold of society at large.
Take a TE37 - a quality, classic 6 spoke wheel. Volk didn't invent wheels, Volk didn't invent forged wheels, Volk didn't invent 6 spoke forged wheels. Volk did take a classic design and re-interpreted it for the class of car they mainly cater too. Certainly can't hate on that. There is no debate that a TE37 is a quality product, made of quality materials, in a quality environment. They are also expensive. They have always been expensive. They will always be expensive. Ferrari's have always been expensive too. So have houses in Monaco. That's why not everyone has a Ferrari, or a house in Monaco, or TE37's. But expensive doesn't mean overpriced. It just means expensive. And to others, a TE37 isn't close to expensive. It's downright cheap. It's all about your perspective, and your budget. Now along comes ABC Wheel Company. They make their own mold, and start making identical, albeit fake, TE37 and 1/3 the cost. People flock to them. Now, if the wheels are complete junk, that will come out in the wash. If the wheels aren't round, people won't continue to buy them. If the colors fade, or they constantly crack, or the paint flakes off that initial surge of sales will be all there is. There will be no endurance. Wheels will be damaged, people's lives and cars will be damaged, and the company will not survive. If the wheels meet a certain level of quality, then the company likely will grow and expand, and who knows, maybe eventually design their own uniue product. Or perhaps just continue to offer lower cost alternatives to expensive items. I don't see the point in hating on anyone who makes a quality product. Now this is not to say that the uber cool JDM product is exponentially superior merely because it shipped out of Toyko. Many of the "JDM" products people covet so much are not fully done in Japan. Many are simply rebranded versions of existing parts. Many of the "JDM" firms now are, essentially, marketing companies that don't actually fabricate anything. What separates them from lesser brands is the QC. But everyone's tolerance is different. What I'll never get and can't support, are the manufacturers making claims they cant support. Like a fake TE37 having "forged" on it, or similar occurances. Where does this leave Volk? Probably in the same boat they are in now. They make an expensive product. They always have. That is the market they cater to. They have a certain process by which a TE37 gets made. And no matter how many they sell, the price isn't going to go down. As expensive as they are, they also give the buyer tremendous value. The wheel is beautifully made. The paint used on the non limited edition ones are top notch. They last. They are light, insanely strong, come in a variety of sizes and offsets. They hold their value if well taken care of. That is a valuable product.
Now, Volk makes cast wheels too - a whole range of them. If the influx of knock offs hurt their business so much, perhaps they will jump in and offer a cast version of a TE37. The fake TE's out there, while cheap vs the genuine ones, aren't exactly 'cheap' by most people's standards. Its not like they are pocket change. So perhaps it will come to pass that these genuine companies take the replicas on at their own game. This is something I think they should do, but don't. High end companies have done it very successfully over the years. Whether you're making car parts, or t shirts, there are ways to flourish even when you're being copied. Or you can wallow in your stoic ways, and refuse to adapt to a shifting market. Some firms are totally content being a smaller, more focused version of what they once were. No shame in this at all. Others want to continuously expand. There are ways to do this successfully too. Rays/Volk has put their foot in the water by introducing different variations of the TE - lighter versions, less expensively painted versions, limited versions. While I am sure the lose a certain % of sales to a replica, I don't know if it's enough to put them out for good. So perhaps something they can try is to introduce their own, cast version. Or, do a side by side with all the competitors, and show why yours should and do cost more. Show people that the $1000 they spend on replicas is poor value, and while significantly more expensive, why yours are a great value.
I think an example of a company who has successfully taken this on is Tomei. Their products are now far more realistically priced than ever. And I am sure they are learning to live with a smaller piece of the margin pie than before. But it's also briging more people into the fold, and allowing them to expand their product line...albeit more carefully than before. Their titanium exhaust line is a quality product, affordably priced. Just one example.
@CrisCiunganu like anything else that gains popularity, it's true of many but not of all. Tons of people aren't in this because they have the same passion as you. Others are in it because it's a bit of a fad - a way to flaunt your money, or gain imaginary status, or be a part of something where you previously weren't.
Knockoffs exist on everything nowadays. From medicine to clothes.
What I think has gotten lost in this whole shuffle is that of quality, and more importantly, value. Something can be inexpensive, hell, downright dirt cheap, but be a horrendous value. Something else can be super expensive, and offer tremendous value. Value and price have nothing to do with one another. Country of origin has nothing to do with anything either. Quality goods come out of every corner of the globe in every facet of life. Being around this hobby for the past 20 years, I've seen great parts from 'offshore' companies, and I've seen junk from Japan. The modern forum interpretation of things, due mainly to the replica scene (but also other factors) is that price and value are synonyms. It's a phenomenon that has taken hold of society at large.
Take a TE37 - a quality, classic 6 spoke wheel. Volk didn't invent wheels, Volk didn't invent forged wheels, Volk didn't invent 6 spoke forged wheels. Volk did take a classic design and re-interpreted it for the class of car they mainly cater too. Certainly can't hate on that. There is no debate that a TE37 is a quality product, made of quality materials, in a quality environment. They are also expensive. They have always been expensive. They will always be expensive. Ferrari's have always been expensive too. So have houses in Monaco. That's why not everyone has a Ferrari, or a house in Monaco, or TE37's. But expensive doesn't mean overpriced. It just means expensive. And to others, a TE37 isn't close to expensive. It's downright cheap. It's all about your perspective, and your budget. Now along comes ABC Wheel Company. They make their own mold, and start making identical, albeit fake, TE37 and 1/3 the cost. People flock to them. Now, if the wheels are complete junk, that will come out in the wash. If the wheels aren't round, people won't continue to buy them. If the colors fade, or they constantly crack, or the paint flakes off that initial surge of sales will be all there is. There will be no endurance. Wheels will be damaged, people's lives and cars will be damaged, and the company will not survive. If the wheels meet a certain level of quality, then the company likely will grow and expand, and who knows, maybe eventually design their own uniue product. Or perhaps just continue to offer lower cost alternatives to expensive items. I don't see the point in hating on anyone who makes a quality product. Now this is not to say that the uber cool JDM product is exponentially superior merely because it shipped out of Toyko. Many of the "JDM" products people covet so much are not fully done in Japan. Many are simply rebranded versions of existing parts. Many of the "JDM" firms now are, essentially, marketing companies that don't actually fabricate anything. What separates them from lesser brands is the QC. But everyone's tolerance is different. What I'll never get and can't support, are the manufacturers making claims they cant support. Like a fake TE37 having "forged" on it, or similar occurances. Where does this leave Volk? Probably in the same boat they are in now. They make an expensive product. They always have. That is the market they cater to. They have a certain process by which a TE37 gets made. And no matter how many they sell, the price isn't going to go down. As expensive as they are, they also give the buyer tremendous value. The wheel is beautifully made. The paint used on the non limited edition ones are top notch. They last. They are light, insanely strong, come in a variety of sizes and offsets. They hold their value if well taken care of. That is a valuable product.
Now, Volk makes cast wheels too - a whole range of them. If the influx of knock offs hurt their business so much, perhaps they will jump in and offer a cast version of a TE37. The fake TE's out there, while cheap vs the genuine ones, aren't exactly 'cheap' by most people's standards. Its not like they are pocket change. So perhaps it will come to pass that these genuine companies take the replicas on at their own game. This is something I think they should do, but don't. High end companies have done it very successfully over the years. Whether you're making car parts, or t shirts, there are ways to flourish even when you're being copied. Or you can wallow in your stoic ways, and refuse to adapt to a shifting market. Some firms are totally content being a smaller, more focused version of what they once were. No shame in this at all. Others want to continuously expand. There are ways to do this successfully too. Rays/Volk has put their foot in the water by introducing different variations of the TE - lighter versions, less expensively painted versions, limited versions. While I am sure the lose a certain % of sales to a replica, I don't know if it's enough to put them out for good. So perhaps something they can try is to introduce their own, cast version. Or, do a side by side with all the competitors, and show why yours should and do cost more. Show people that the $1000 they spend on replicas is poor value, and while significantly more expensive, why yours are a great value.
I think an example of a company who has successfully taken this on is Tomei. Their products are now far more realistically priced than ever. And I am sure they are learning to live with a smaller piece of the margin pie than before. But it's also briging more people into the fold, and allowing them to expand their product line...albeit more carefully than before. Their titanium exhaust line is a quality product, affordably priced. Just one example.
@CrisCiunganu like anything else that gains popularity, it's true of many but not of all. Tons of people aren't in this because they have the same passion as you. Others are in it because it's a bit of a fad - a way to flaunt your money, or gain imaginary status, or be a part of something where you previously weren't.
Knockoffs exist on everything nowadays. From medicine to clothes.
What I think has gotten lost in this whole shuffle is that of quality, and more importantly, value. Something can be inexpensive, hell, downright dirt cheap, but be a horrendous value. Something else can be super expensive, and offer tremendous value. Value and price have nothing to do with one another. Country of origin has nothing to do with anything either. Quality goods come out of every corner of the globe in every facet of life. Being around this hobby for the past 20 years, I've seen great parts from 'offshore' companies, and I've seen junk from Japan. The modern forum interpretation of things, due mainly to the replica scene (but also other factors) is that price and value are synonyms. It's a phenomenon that has taken hold of society at large.
Take a TE37 - a quality, classic 6 spoke wheel. Volk didn't invent wheels, Volk didn't invent forged wheels, Volk didn't invent 6 spoke forged wheels. Volk did take a classic design and re-interpreted it for the class of car they mainly cater too. Certainly can't hate on that. There is no debate that a TE37 is a quality product, made of quality materials, in a quality environment. They are also expensive. They have always been expensive. They will always be expensive. Ferrari's have always been expensive too. So have houses in Monaco. That's why not everyone has a Ferrari, or a house in Monaco, or TE37's. But expensive doesn't mean overpriced. It just means expensive. And to others, a TE37 isn't close to expensive. It's downright cheap. It's all about your perspective, and your budget. Now along comes ABC Wheel Company. They make their own mold, and start making identical, albeit fake, TE37 and 1/3 the cost. People flock to them. Now, if the wheels are complete junk, that will come out in the wash. If the wheels aren't round, people won't continue to buy them. If the colors fade, or they constantly crack, or the paint flakes off that initial surge of sales will be all there is. There will be no endurance. Wheels will be damaged, people's lives and cars will be damaged, and the company will not survive. If the wheels meet a certain level of quality, then the company likely will grow and expand, and who knows, maybe eventually design their own uniue product. Or perhaps just continue to offer lower cost alternatives to expensive items. I don't see the point in hating on anyone who makes a quality product. Now this is not to say that the uber cool JDM product is exponentially superior merely because it shipped out of Toyko. Many of the "JDM" products people covet so much are not fully done in Japan. Many are simply rebranded versions of existing parts. Many of the "JDM" firms now are, essentially, marketing companies that don't actually fabricate anything. What separates them from lesser brands is the QC. But everyone's tolerance is different. What I'll never get and can't support, are the manufacturers making claims they cant support. Like a fake TE37 having "forged" on it, or similar occurances. Where does this leave Volk? Probably in the same boat they are in now. They make an expensive product. They always have. That is the market they cater to. They have a certain process by which a TE37 gets made. And no matter how many they sell, the price isn't going to go down. As expensive as they are, they also give the buyer tremendous value. The wheel is beautifully made. The paint used on the non limited edition ones are top notch. They last. They are light, insanely strong, come in a variety of sizes and offsets. They hold their value if well taken care of. That is a valuable product.
Now, Volk makes cast wheels too - a whole range of them. If the influx of knock offs hurt their business so much, perhaps they will jump in and offer a cast version of a TE37. The fake TE's out there, while cheap vs the genuine ones, aren't exactly 'cheap' by most people's standards. Its not like they are pocket change. So perhaps it will come to pass that these genuine companies take the replicas on at their own game. This is something I think they should do, but don't. High end companies have done it very successfully over the years. Whether you're making car parts, or t shirts, there are ways to flourish even when you're being copied. Or you can wallow in your stoic ways, and refuse to adapt to a shifting market. Some firms are totally content being a smaller, more focused version of what they once were. No shame in this at all. Others want to continuously expand. There are ways to do this successfully too. Rays/Volk has put their foot in the water by introducing different variations of the TE - lighter versions, less expensively painted versions, limited versions. While I am sure the lose a certain % of sales to a replica, I don't know if it's enough to put them out for good. So perhaps something they can try is to introduce their own, cast version. Or, do a side by side with all the competitors, and show why yours should and do cost more. Show people that the $1000 they spend on replicas is poor value, and while significantly more expensive, why yours are a great value.
I think an example of a company who has successfully taken this on is Tomei. Their products are now far more realistically priced than ever. And I am sure they are learning to live with a smaller piece of the margin pie than before. But it's also briging more people into the fold, and allowing them to expand their product line...albeit more carefully than before. Their titanium exhaust line is a quality product, affordably priced. Just one example.
To continue my last comment, as anything grows, it expands in all directions - that means you get alot more quality options, alot more people taking chances than before, alot more domestic manufacturers making parts for cars that 20 years ago were only catered to by HKS or Tomei, etc. On the flip side, you get more poseurs. People who don't understand a quality weld, or the difference between 2 types of metals, manufacturers passing themselves off as engineers when they are neither designing nore manufacturing the product they are selling. And don't care either. So the person may see 1 aluminum radiator for $100 and one for $400 and automatically see the $400 one as overpriced and the $100 as the bees knees - when it could be the case that it's the other way around. As anything grows, it becomes automatically better and watered down at the same time. The net result is a more segmented hobby. Sites like MotoIQ pop up that cater towards a certain facet of the hobby. And other sites pop up for people who are on the other side of the coin pop up as well.
To continue my last comment, as anything grows, it expands in all directions - that means you get alot more quality options, alot more people taking chances than before, alot more domestic manufacturers making parts for cars that 20 years ago were only catered to by HKS or Tomei, etc. On the flip side, you get more poseurs. People who don't understand a quality weld, or the difference between 2 types of metals, manufacturers passing themselves off as engineers when they are neither designing nore manufacturing the product they are selling. And don't care either. So the person may see 1 aluminum radiator for $100 and one for $400 and automatically see the $400 one as overpriced and the $100 as the bees knees - when it could be the case that it's the other way around. As anything grows, it becomes automatically better and watered down at the same time. The net result is a more segmented hobby. Sites like MotoIQ pop up that cater towards a certain facet of the hobby. And other sites pop up for people who are on the other side of the coin pop up as well.
To continue my last comment, as anything grows, it expands in all directions - that means you get alot more quality options, alot more people taking chances than before, alot more domestic manufacturers making parts for cars that 20 years ago were only catered to by HKS or Tomei, etc. On the flip side, you get more poseurs. People who don't understand a quality weld, or the difference between 2 types of metals, manufacturers passing themselves off as engineers when they are neither designing nore manufacturing the product they are selling. And don't care either. So the person may see 1 aluminum radiator for $100 and one for $400 and automatically see the $400 one as overpriced and the $100 as the bees knees - when it could be the case that it's the other way around. As anything grows, it becomes automatically better and watered down at the same time. The net result is a more segmented hobby. Sites like MotoIQ pop up that cater towards a certain facet of the hobby. And other sites pop up for people who are on the other side of the coin pop up as well.
To continue my last comment, as anything grows, it expands in all directions - that means you get alot more quality options, alot more people taking chances than before, alot more domestic manufacturers making parts for cars that 20 years ago were only catered to by HKS or Tomei, etc. On the flip side, you get more poseurs. People who don't understand a quality weld, or the difference between 2 types of metals, manufacturers passing themselves off as engineers when they are neither designing nore manufacturing the product they are selling. And don't care either. So the person may see 1 aluminum radiator for $100 and one for $400 and automatically see the $400 one as overpriced and the $100 as the bees knees - when it could be the case that it's the other way around. As anything grows, it becomes automatically better and watered down at the same time. The net result is a more segmented hobby. Sites like MotoIQ pop up that cater towards a certain facet of the hobby. And other sites pop up for people who are on the other side of the coin pop up as well.
Lets also not forget that less than a generation ago, people saw cars from Japan as pure junk. And in many regards, they were right. But there was enough good about them that some people embraced it, and the companies emerged as legit competitors on a world stage. Now the Korean firms have taken those reigns. The pats side of things is no different in that regard. A quality product can be made anywhere. But the consumer needs to be smart enough to know what is and what is not quality. But the market thrives on the backs of the ignorant at the expensive of the educated. To cultivate a better scene, I think it takes a 2 pronged approach. The grassroots level and the manufacturer, top down model. All to converge in the center to make a better consumer, a smarter consumer, who wants to embrace value as the most important quality in something they buy
Lets also not forget that less than a generation ago, people saw cars from Japan as pure junk. And in many regards, they were right. But there was enough good about them that some people embraced it, and the companies emerged as legit competitors on a world stage. Now the Korean firms have taken those reigns. The pats side of things is no different in that regard. A quality product can be made anywhere. But the consumer needs to be smart enough to know what is and what is not quality. But the market thrives on the backs of the ignorant at the expensive of the educated. To cultivate a better scene, I think it takes a 2 pronged approach. The grassroots level and the manufacturer, top down model. All to converge in the center to make a better consumer, a smarter consumer, who wants to embrace value as the most important quality in something they buy
Lets also not forget that less than a generation ago, people saw cars from Japan as pure junk. And in many regards, they were right. But there was enough good about them that some people embraced it, and the companies emerged as legit competitors on a world stage. Now the Korean firms have taken those reigns. The pats side of things is no different in that regard. A quality product can be made anywhere. But the consumer needs to be smart enough to know what is and what is not quality. But the market thrives on the backs of the ignorant at the expensive of the educated. To cultivate a better scene, I think it takes a 2 pronged approach. The grassroots level and the manufacturer, top down model. All to converge in the center to make a better consumer, a smarter consumer, who wants to embrace value as the most important quality in something they buy
Lets also not forget that less than a generation ago, people saw cars from Japan as pure junk. And in many regards, they were right. But there was enough good about them that some people embraced it, and the companies emerged as legit competitors on a world stage. Now the Korean firms have taken those reigns. The pats side of things is no different in that regard. A quality product can be made anywhere. But the consumer needs to be smart enough to know what is and what is not quality. But the market thrives on the backs of the ignorant at the expensive of the educated. To cultivate a better scene, I think it takes a 2 pronged approach. The grassroots level and the manufacturer, top down model. All to converge in the center to make a better consumer, a smarter consumer, who wants to embrace value as the most important quality in something they buy
All the people who voted "Replicas are fine" drive a Nissan.
All the people who voted "Replicas are fine" drive a Nissan.
All the people who voted "Replicas are fine" drive a Nissan.
All the people who voted "Replicas are fine" drive a Nissan.
I have no issue with copied designs by manufactures such as Rota (hell my Integra did have a set of Genuine Rays Gram Lights but I replaced them with Rotas because I wanted a wider track and thus a lower offset for track use and could not justify spending £££ on another set of Rays), the problem lies in the untested and almost certainly very unsafe fake parts.
It's never worth risking your life on fake crap (and that's what your doing when you fit fake wheel nuts or whatever to your car!) just to save a few pennies...
I have no issue with copied designs by manufactures such as Rota (hell my Integra did have a set of Genuine Rays Gram Lights but I replaced them with Rotas because I wanted a wider track and thus a lower offset for track use and could not justify spending £££ on another set of Rays), the problem lies in the untested and almost certainly very unsafe fake parts.
It's never worth risking your life on fake crap (and that's what your doing when you fit fake wheel nuts or whatever to your car!) just to save a few pennies...
I have no issue with copied designs by manufactures such as Rota (hell my Integra did have a set of Genuine Rays Gram Lights but I replaced them with Rotas because I wanted a wider track and thus a lower offset for track use and could not justify spending £££ on another set of Rays), the problem lies in the untested and almost certainly very unsafe fake parts.
It's never worth risking your life on fake crap (and that's what your doing when you fit fake wheel nuts or whatever to your car!) just to save a few pennies...
I have no issue with copied designs by manufactures such as Rota (hell my Integra did have a set of Genuine Rays Gram Lights but I replaced them with Rotas because I wanted a wider track and thus a lower offset for track use and could not justify spending £££ on another set of Rays), the problem lies in the untested and almost certainly very unsafe fake parts.
It's never worth risking your life on fake crap (and that's what your doing when you fit fake wheel nuts or whatever to your car!) just to save a few pennies...
We roll on ROTA's here in the Philippines and are proud it. If any of you guys have a question about ROTA's durability, here's a good article for reference: http://custompinoyrides.com/2012/03/question-on-durability-of-rota-wheels/
We roll on ROTA's here in the Philippines and are proud it. If any of you guys have a question about ROTA's durability, here's a good article for reference: http://custompinoyrides.com/2012/03/question-on-durability-of-rota-wheels/
We roll on ROTA's here in the Philippines and are proud it. If any of you guys have a question about ROTA's durability, here's a good article for reference: http://custompinoyrides.com/2012/03/question-on-durability-of-rota-wheels/
We roll on ROTA's here in the Philippines and are proud it. If any of you guys have a question about ROTA's durability, here's a good article for reference: http://custompinoyrides.com/2012/03/question-on-durability-of-rota-wheels/
http://fatlace.com/cars/slammedsociety/reps-or-real/ and http://custompinoyrides.com/2010/10/rota-and-illest-dont-match-no-more/ are also good articles for the said topic
another articles for the said topic are: http://fatlace.com/cars/slammedsociety/reps-or-real/ and http://custompinoyrides.com/2010/10/rota-and-illest-dont-match-no-more/
You can't justify theft. This isn't about your budget, how "durable" the parts may be, or any other comparison. It's stolen property. Hell, a good bit of those faking the funk can't even name the og parts their's are knocking off... that is what will kill the industry. Smh.
Mike Garrett has mentioned before that:
“[Wheels] are probably the most important component in how a car looks, right? Some people say that wheels to a car are like shoes to a person, but in my opinion the importance of having decent wheels on a car is more important than the shoes someone is wearing…”
Genuine question what would people rather a car with genuine wheels and Chinese ditch finders or a car with Rotas and some proper tyres ??
@JDMDONG
Answer: regardless of your decision you still lose. Super model w/ herpes vs. fugly that can f-ck.
Actually, most of them do.People don't buy Rotas for the value, they buy them because they look like TE37s or whatever but are cheaper.If Rota had made their own designs, then I would respect them, but they are ripping off other people's designs, so that they can make big bucks off of other people's hard work.Ray's, Enkei, Oz, BBS etc. are all making some cheaper wheels for those that can't afford their premium, but people want their iconic models for brand recognition, and that's what people buy Rotas for.If you are rolling on Rotas, then you are the cancer killing original ideas, so fuck you very much.
I thought this would be pretty close, I myself have got a set of Rota's and I couldn't complain at all, I still see them as the mid-range. If I could afford 5k (NZD) as opposed to less than half I would pay for the big brand names, but unfortunately I just want to have fun in my car and get out there and have it looking good. Obviously if I could find a set of second hand Work, Volk of the right size (and price), I would buy them in a heartbeat.
@Vilko That's like saying that not giving money to a save the whales charity is the same as paying someone to go out and kill whales. Buying second hand doesn't put money into the pockets of the original manufacturers, but it also doesn't put it into the pockets of companies who are stealing their designs.
I found myself thinking about this today as I was driving to meet with an old car guy friend of mine. We ended up talking about it too.
The reality of the hobby, is, for the time being, the replica market IS, to a large extent, the industry. SEMA is a few weeks ago. Take note of who displays there now vs who displayed there 10 years ago, and tell me I'm not right.
There are times, IMHO, where a replica may even be preferred to the real thing. There are some products that take an original shape, but alter the material, to something that people may prefer. And if they are able to offer it at a substantially lower price, all the better. At the same time, I think what offends most of the people out there is when people claim a replica is something that it's not...or even draw an equivalency to the genuine item. This is an industry where money usually buys quality. There is a difference between Ohlins coilovers and Raceland. Drawing an equivalencey between them makes zero sense.
At the end of the day, I am still of the opinion that it takes an educated consumer. 20 years ago, you had to educate yourself on the parts for your car, particularly Japanese cars, because you couldn't just order the parts from JEGS, or go to your local speed shop and buy stuff. I remember nearly memorizing the HKS catalog and their staged packages for my Datsun and my friend's Starion. And when it came time to buy, you had to study again because there just wasn't a ton of people who sold the stuff. Things are of course different now, and because the stuff is so much more accessible, the consumer isn't compelled to learn quite as much as they once did. And the net result is the high turnover rate this hobby now faces. I think the manufacturers can and should do a better job of justifying their existance, and proving why their stuff is worth the extra price. If not, and they decide to merely rest on the laurels of their name, they likely face continued struggles Doing so not only shows your customer why your product is worth the asking price, it also shows why your knock off is not worth ANY price. Cooperate with your dealer base, show why the stuff is worth what it's worth, show why the replica is a poor excuse for a paperweight. Plus, you're aware of the replica version of your product, and shows you care enough about your potential customers to show them why it's not worth spendng any amount of money on. This is what they don't do, and what they need to do more of.
Ridiculously overpriced ? I'd love to get some HRE or some WEDSSPORT but it's so over priced...
@bakayaru +1. Can all of the people who voted yes to reps honestly say that if you invested 1000's of dollars (potentially 10's of 1000's of dollars, depending on the product) and countless hours in research and development on a new product, plus all the ongoing cost involved in running your new business (Employee wages, taxes, property rent, equipment costs, power bills, water bills, gas bills, etc), you would be cool with some company ripping off your design and undercutting your price? Or would you just brush it off as "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery'?
@H05TYL @Ikazuchi @bakayarubut that has as much to do with the hobby growing as it does the ignorance of many who now occupy it. Takata produced motorsport level parts and, is the largest OE supplier for Japanese car manufacturers of their seatbelts and other safety related things. But the harnesses became a fad. Like so many other things in our culture. When thay fad status happens, look out, because knock offs will follow.
@MathewLapointeLizotte Learn the difference between expensive and overpriced
Lastly, I totally understand and appreciate where the artist, designer, etc gets unfortunately played in this whole knock off business. It is unfortunate that the no form of copyright protection is offered for them. An author doesn't typically invent a word, but he can copyright how he strings the words together. Similarly, a manufacturer should be able to protect their design work.
depending on your budget of course knockoffs are ok if your cant afford real original and sometimes you get better style and personality off non-original parts then a full stock original old ride.. i know we just rebuilt my fathers 1967 Citroën V2- 2 cylinder flat with Nicasi treated piston's real fun drive a to z rebuild car and alot of part are knockoffs but look and perform better then original!!! Better connections better power better everything with mordern techno on old cars next is to put a double carb! cant wait!
“JWL” (Japan Light Wheel Alloy) is a compilation of standards defined by the Japanese Government to ensure the vehicle’s safety for aluminum road wheels. Every wheel put to market must be tested to meet JWL standards before a wheel can be put out to market in Japan.
These standards are generally accepted worldwide as acceptable for most road conditions. That is why you will see these marks on European and other Asian country wheels.
“VIA” (Vehicle Inspection Association Registration System). VIA marking can only be engraved on the wheel if registered by Japan Light Alloy Automotive Wheel Testing Council after strict quality tests by the authorized testing facility on the adaptability of JWL or JWL-T (Japan Light Alloy Wheel Truck & Bus) technical standard
There are two NHTSA safety standards that reference wheels (rims), FMVSS No. 110 (tire selection/rims for passenger cars weighing less than 10,000 pounds) and FMVSS No. 120 (tire selection/rims for vehicles weighing more than 10,000 pounds). The rules are focused on making sure the vehicle has the proper size tire/wheel combination. They do not establish performance requirements, although FMVSS No. 120 includes marking requirements. Most wheel performance/marking requirements have been accomplished through industry standards established by SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) and other international organizations. SEMA worked with SAE to develop SAE J2530, “Aftermarket Wheels - Passenger Cars and Light Truck - Performance Requirements and Test Procedures” [Published: May 2008]. NOTE: SAE J2530 establishes performance and marking requirements.
This arguement boils down to an e-dick measuring contest. It has nothing to do with safety or manufacturing or anything like that. It has everything to do with someone being pissed that they blew 3 grand on a set of wheels and then someone else pulls up at the show with the same style wheels that aren't the same brand or the same price but get the same kind of attention. Personally I don't see the problem with cheap wheels. Because that's the arguement after all. Cheap or expensive. I can put a $600 set of wheels on my car, not really worry too much if they get a little curb rash or the guys at the local tire shop have to mount tires for me. They look great and the passer by on the side walk is still giving the car a second look.
The guys with the "real" wheels (Aren't all wheels real? You mount tires on them and put them on the car after all...) meanwhile, are fretting about every pebble and spec of dirt. The car gets driven less. And you're out a pretty penny for every scuff you get. Not to mention the threat of theft. To me, they're a show car or trailer queen type of investment, when you need the brand name clout in competition. Otherwise I find this obsession with expensive wheels pretty ridiculous.
@Luka024 Let me repeat my comment from earlier.
To all the people saying "I'm only buying what I can afford", that's fine, but the debate isn't about cheap parts vs expensive parts, it is about 'knock-off' parts vs 'legit' parts. There are plenty of options for people who want cheaper parts without having to support companies who hurt the aftermarket industry.
anyone who thinks it is ok to blatantly steal the idea of someone else is a loser.
if these knock off parts companies made parts that were their own original ideas, no one would have a problem with their sub-par manufacturing and quality control. most sane people would avoid them like the plague. consumers are looking for a specific product and the original is too costly for them so they go for a blatant copy to impress people as opposed to the original to support the industry. now the company that makes the original part just lost money. now they dont have the money to develop new parts to keep their momentum. multiply that by every ssautochrome, ebay, sportmaxx, rota and varstoenn company out there and you have a giant chunk of revenue that was literally stolen from the original designers. not only that, but stolen ideas make the people who create the original idea feel that it's not worth it to create new parts or progress their companies anymore. take for example XS engineering and what happened to them with eBay. XS power and godspeed project literally killed their public offered parts company. or HKS shutting down the majority of their non-japanese distributors. or how Tein hasnt released a new line of coilovers since the Type FLEX with EDFC way back in 2008.
just imagine if everything you ever accomplished in life was stolen by someone else who ended up getting all the credit and success for it. fucking sucks doesn't it?
sorry dudes, modifying cars is really expensive. you have to pay to play. if you cant afford the real shit, go get a new hobby where you can afford real shit. stop supporting thievery. stop supporting chinese crap.
@Luka024 its not just wheels, dude. its all car parts. wheels, turbos, intercoolers, coilovers, chassis bracing, etc etc etc.
and sorry youre too much of a pussy to run real parts on your car. HRE's have been on my daily driver for almost 12k miles now. the TE37s i use on the track car have had more battle scars than most knock off track wheels ive seen that spontaneously explode when jumping curbs. hell, ive seen rotas explode just going sideways into a sand trap.
but its cool if you want to risk the lives of everyone around you when you run shitty ass parts on your jalopy ass car on the street.
also, none of that shit you said has anything to do with chinese companies, they could give no less fucks about FMVSS, DOT, JWL or any other alphabet soup nonsense. its CHINA, land of the steal and replicate as opposed to the rest of the planet, who usually follow the research and development school of thought.
but you keep rolling shitty parts bro. when your shitty ebay turbo explodes and sends impeller wheel shards out of the car at terminal velocity, or your SPEC clutch and F1 flywheel explode at high RPM and nearly sever your legs, dont blame anyone but yourself for buying shit parts.
@weasel Agreed, I myself owned a pair of rotas about ten years ago when i was fresh out of highschool. Now that i'm older and can afford better i wouldnt dream of putting a knock off on my car. I enjoy purchasing and supporting from a company that has the passion to design these items as apposed to just copying someone else and undercutting their price.
http://jdmphasis.blogspot.com/2012/08/butt-hurt-another-replica-rant.html
@Rotary @weasel What percentage of similarity deems an item to be a knock off?
@Rotary similar how?
just dont buy shit from knock off brands. its that simple. doesnt matter the percentage of its similarities, as the only one it will share is aesthetics anyway.
I personally have genuine aftermarket parts on my vehicle, but I'm just not angry about those who choose the latter. Cheers!
What about replacement standard parts? I assume all anti-replica supporters have always purchased genuine replacement parts from the dealer?
I vote for original but I'm not rich.. If I have the money, I'll definitely buy originals..
@weasel Very well said weasel!
@weasel I couldn't agree more!
It seems those high school kids on here don't realize that not only they put in danger their life, but their compromise other drivers as well.
@MathewLapointeLizotte Change hobby!
@okaycolin @PSUwagon I am defending who has been putting sweat and blood into R&D, people and companies, money (tons of money) and brilliant people with great ideas.
That's what I support. If all the knock off companies kill the creators, they wouldn't be able to create shit and this industry would die.
And since I care about this hobby, I care that bright people with great idea still produce quality products!
@AlexanderEvensen Mishimoto radiators, POS knock off shit. Seibon carbon fiber, stole several designs from Voltex Suzuka. Rota, stole pretty much all the Mugen design, Volk and Work wheels design. Megan Racing, stole pretty much all the HKS design (exhaust, BOV, manifold). Godspeed, garbage knock off stole a bunch of Garrett turbo design.....
I can go on and on Mr. Evensen.....do your research, and if it's cheap, probably it's too good to be true!
@JDMized When I see you cruising down the freeway with your POS toilet-mobile, let me know, I'll stay way the fuck out from you!
mes rota font le travail! je suis pas riche!
Replica og real doesnt really matter to me. I've had replicas and just got me some original Ray's.
Buy what you can afford!
I love my car, so simply do the best i can to buy the nicest parts i can.
If cost alone was forcing me to compromise, then i wouldn't be doing it at all.
This definitely includes 'knockoffs & replica's'.. whether its a complete copied/fake/replica part, or even an imitation/design copy.
If there's two versions of an identical 'looking' part, why would i knowingly put the crapper version on my car?
Hayashi Streets has a stepped tapered lip, non-stepped center, and painted spoke with a thicker center compared to the Campagnolo. The SSR Formula/Reverse Mesh has a smaller center star and a tighter mesh pattern compared to BBS E50. Also while I'm at it, Watanabes have a stepped tapered lip and a different spoke design from the Minilite. I can spot the difference from far away without looking at the emblems. Can you say the same about Rays TE37V and Rota Grind V?
SSR, Hayashi, and RS Watanabe changed the design enough to differentiate/improve the look, while offering different sizes and offsets for flared/widebody Japanese cars. Rota just steals the Japanese design.
Unfortunately I caved in to a set of knock-off wheels for the time being. I will replace them with a set of quality forged wheels when my budget permits. Otherwise, I run away screaming from knock-offs. You get what you pay for.
@weasel Amen, brotha! I understand people are on a budget, but what they fail to realize is that they're essentially supporting the theft of intellectual property by buying copied parts.
@weasel Amen, brotha! I understand people are on a budget, but what they fail to realize is that they're essentially supporting the theft of intellectual property by buying copied parts.
@Luka024 If the wheel manufacturers like Rota, XXR, Axis, etc. didn't directly copy the design of the more expensive wheels and market it as their own, and instead designed their own wheel styles and sold them, most of us wouldn't have a problem. It's the fact that they're stealing someone else's design and copying it. It's the same thing as buying a fake Rolex or pair of Oakleys. I don't care if your part is cheap, I care if it's a copy of someone else's design.
@Luka024 If the wheel manufacturers like Rota, XXR, Axis, etc. didn't directly copy the design of the more expensive wheels and market it as their own, and instead designed their own wheel styles and sold them, most of us wouldn't have a problem. It's the fact that they're stealing someone else's design and copying it. It's the same thing as buying a fake Rolex or pair of Oakleys. I don't care if your part is cheap, I care if it's a copy of someone else's design.
Lets say there is a really old obscure set of wheels that you like. Lets say they havent been made for almost 10 years and they almost never come up for sale, or if they do its totally wrong sizes and offsets. Now lets say the original company is long gone or has no plans of reproducing the wheel. Is it OK then to buy a knockoff? Absolutely.
Fake HKS blowoffs and such are never OK. But in all seriousness lets say Rota copies a wheel style no longer produced otherwise, well they have JWL and ISO certification as well as lots of track proven use. At that point its definitely OK.
Lets say there is a really old obscure set of wheels that you like. Lets say they havent been made for almost 10 years and they almost never come up for sale, or if they do its totally wrong sizes and offsets. Now lets say the original company is long gone or has no plans of reproducing the wheel. Is it OK then to buy a knockoff? Absolutely.
Fake HKS blowoffs and such are never OK. But in all seriousness lets say Rota copies a wheel style no longer produced otherwise, well they have JWL and ISO certification as well as lots of track proven use. At that point its definitely OK.
@ScottLang
guys like you don't even realize most of the "real" wheels you're buying from japan are copies of european designs. Quality of build is the real issue and I don't see any QA experts in here. smh
@ScottLang
guys like you don't even realize most of the "real" wheels you're buying from japan are copies of european designs. Quality of build is the real issue and I don't see any QA experts in here. smh
@twinturbosix I've seen two sets of iForged do that. I've also seen OEM Porsche wheels do that. In the world of motorsport wheels are actually considered a wear item.
@twinturbosix I've seen two sets of iForged do that. I've also seen OEM Porsche wheels do that. In the world of motorsport wheels are actually considered a wear item.
replicas to go racing, originals for shows and cruising.
replicas to go racing, originals for shows and cruising.
I'm not against either, but if you buy replicas, don't buy stickers and pass them off as the real thing. You look like a fucking tool then.
I'm not against either, but if you buy replicas, don't buy stickers and pass them off as the real thing. You look like a fucking tool then.
But I also got to add, given the choice, I'd go legit.
But I also got to add, given the choice, I'd go legit.
http://jdmphasis.blogspot.ca/2012/08/butt-hurt-another-replica-rant.html x1
Read this and you'll understand..So much education to do in this industry...
http://jdmphasis.blogspot.ca/2012/08/butt-hurt-another-replica-rant.html x1
Read this and you'll understand..So much education to do in this industry...
LOL i sure hope all u legit guys/ anti replica guys all have iPhones n not a samsung galaxy! hahahahaha
LOL i sure hope all u legit guys/ anti replica guys all have iPhones n not a samsung galaxy! hahahahaha
@Eric808 I don't have an IPhone....i spent all my money buying real things for my car...well...wheels... ;)...
@Eric808 I don't have an IPhone....i spent all my money buying real things for my car...well...wheels... ;)...
Wheels mheels heels life too short to care about that silly nilly shit. Why send all your money for some wheels and soon as u se the next car with the same u hate them in u shopping again. I always round on big dog shit cuz that wit I like but I'm 40 now and see it all was a waste on money cuz nobody truly cares but u. Why make a will company and u barely got gas money for the rest of the week , but u ridin clean though
Wheels mheels heels life too short to care about that silly nilly shit. Why send all your money for some wheels and soon as u se the next car with the same u hate them in u shopping again. I always round on big dog shit cuz that wit I like but I'm 40 now and see it all was a waste on money cuz nobody truly cares but u. Why make a will company and u barely got gas money for the rest of the week , but u ridin clean though
Some people buy parts for looks and others buy them for their functionality as well as their looks. If you want more bang for your buck you've got to pay to play.
Some people buy parts for looks and others buy them for their functionality as well as their looks. If you want more bang for your buck you've got to pay to play.
It's really depend on what's part that ur looking for!
It's really depend on what's part that ur looking for!
As long as the replicated parts are not dangerous or crappy to the point of losing performance and breaking, just let them be. If a person wants to have the same look for a lesser price, then so be it, leave them alone. However, more kudos and street cred should be given to a person who actually have the real deal.
As long as the replicated parts are not dangerous or crappy to the point of losing performance and breaking, just let them be. If a person wants to have the same look for a lesser price, then so be it, leave them alone. However, more kudos and street cred should be given to a person who actually have the real deal.
All I can say is everyone knocking on wheel company stealing designs are sadly misinformed. Almost all of the cool old JDM wheels are stolen designs from motor sports one offs. Allot of designs over the years have been inspired or lifted from race teams and even other car company's. As long as you dont try and pass them off as the real deal then why does it even matter. If I had a set of Spoon wheels on my Civic and swapped them for some Rota slipstreams is it going to make the car any faster or better?? No it will be about the same yet you don't have to worry about screwing up a $600 wheel.
This whole parts whore hatter mentality has to stop. If you have some legit parts power to you but I bet your a nervous wreck every time your out in your car or you just have a show whore and that quite honestly is just as bad as a ricer. Just enjoy the culture and quit hating.
Just like the late 80's if you didn't have a pair of Air Jordon's you where a pud. Not because the shoe was special or had some high tech wizardry in it. No it was just a shoe that cost $150 and did nothing to make you cooler or better. Just because you have the coolest parts or spent the most money it does not make you a better driver or a faster car. That's why we have this issue. Your just mad because the guy down the street has a faster car and only spent a tenth of the money lol. Its not what parts you buy but how much thought you put into it and how well it all works once its tuned. On that note I am going to hop in my stanced out 240 on Work wheels and my booming system and get some Starbucks like all my hipster friends.
Grow the F up people!
All I can say is everyone knocking on wheel company stealing designs are sadly misinformed. Almost all of the cool old JDM wheels are stolen designs from motor sports one offs. Allot of designs over the years have been inspired or lifted from race teams and even other car company's. As long as you dont try and pass them off as the real deal then why does it even matter. If I had a set of Spoon wheels on my Civic and swapped them for some Rota slipstreams is it going to make the car any faster or better?? No it will be about the same yet you don't have to worry about screwing up a $600 wheel.
This whole parts whore hatter mentality has to stop. If you have some legit parts power to you but I bet your a nervous wreck every time your out in your car or you just have a show whore and that quite honestly is just as bad as a ricer. Just enjoy the culture and quit hating.
Just like the late 80's if you didn't have a pair of Air Jordon's you where a pud. Not because the shoe was special or had some high tech wizardry in it. No it was just a shoe that cost $150 and did nothing to make you cooler or better. Just because you have the coolest parts or spent the most money it does not make you a better driver or a faster car. That's why we have this issue. Your just mad because the guy down the street has a faster car and only spent a tenth of the money lol. Its not what parts you buy but how much thought you put into it and how well it all works once its tuned. On that note I am going to hop in my stanced out 240 on Work wheels and my booming system and get some Starbucks like all my hipster friends.
Grow the F up people!
@SiDe as long as u dont have a samsung galaxy then. cuz then thatd be like owning a knock off of a iphone hahaha
@SiDe as long as u dont have a samsung galaxy then. cuz then thatd be like owning a knock off of a iphone hahaha
@zackspeed333
I think anyone who has any sort of $ and time invested in their car is always a bit more guarded than you are with your daily beater, or than you are with a bone stock car. It's just different.
You gotta understand, not everyone is mad because the guy down the block is faster for less. Lots of people don't care who is faster. Lots of rich guys down the street don't think about a 10 second civic dusting his Z06. It's not on his radar.
The whole industry has been turned on it's head in large part to what you said - people don't put much thought into the modding side as they used to. And they are doing it with a bevy of parts that just plain suck. And then they get jaded. And then they leave the scene. The industry, to a large extent, now revolves around the lowest common denominator. Now, I'm not saying this is the entire state of affairs, but it's certainly a huge portion of it.
There are many examples of people using real TE37 caps on their reps, or real BBS center caps on their reps. These are, by definition, poseurs and it's what so many people have a huge issue with. Do these same people rock fake Nike's? Or buy bootleg DVD's? Who knows. Then when they go on to sell the part, or their car you see an ad chock full of name brands. Because they know people will not be as apt to click on it if it's a laundry list of Godspeed, Varrstoen, etc. It's almost a basic human trait to defend what you spend your money on to those who might otherwise disagree. The fake funkers who buy Bride replica seats start bs that Bride seats are not made in Japan, and Bride Canada seats are 'real' too. Or that their Godspeed turbo works just as well as one from Precision. These are idiots...but they are idiots in increasing numbers.
I think it gets a bit dicier on the wheel side of things. Replica wheels have existed since forever. There are tons of companies that cater to just making OEM replica wheels. Often they change it up and do lower offsets or wider widths. Sometimes they don't, There have been Fuchs replica's forever, BBS replica's forever, and now Volk/Advan/Weds/Work have their replicas too. It happens on the high end of the scale too, Some companies seem to rise above the fray and avoid knock offs. Can't say I've ever seen an RPF1 or NT03+M replica. Not quite sure why this is, but I'm sure Enkei is happy about it. Many of these replicas are made by companies with long histories and proper manufacturing techniques and equipment. They can make a wheel that is round and won't fall apart with normal use. Over the long haul they are generally reliable. But they save themselves a ton of time (and $) but not ever designing anything. They copy and paste. I think there would be a lot less hate towards it if these companies at least did some designing on their own. C'est la vie.
@zackspeed333
I think anyone who has any sort of $ and time invested in their car is always a bit more guarded than you are with your daily beater, or than you are with a bone stock car. It's just different.
You gotta understand, not everyone is mad because the guy down the block is faster for less. Lots of people don't care who is faster. Lots of rich guys down the street don't think about a 10 second civic dusting his Z06. It's not on his radar.
The whole industry has been turned on it's head in large part to what you said - people don't put much thought into the modding side as they used to. And they are doing it with a bevy of parts that just plain suck. And then they get jaded. And then they leave the scene. The industry, to a large extent, now revolves around the lowest common denominator. Now, I'm not saying this is the entire state of affairs, but it's certainly a huge portion of it.
There are many examples of people using real TE37 caps on their reps, or real BBS center caps on their reps. These are, by definition, poseurs and it's what so many people have a huge issue with. Do these same people rock fake Nike's? Or buy bootleg DVD's? Who knows. Then when they go on to sell the part, or their car you see an ad chock full of name brands. Because they know people will not be as apt to click on it if it's a laundry list of Godspeed, Varrstoen, etc. It's almost a basic human trait to defend what you spend your money on to those who might otherwise disagree. The fake funkers who buy Bride replica seats start bs that Bride seats are not made in Japan, and Bride Canada seats are 'real' too. Or that their Godspeed turbo works just as well as one from Precision. These are idiots...but they are idiots in increasing numbers.
I think it gets a bit dicier on the wheel side of things. Replica wheels have existed since forever. There are tons of companies that cater to just making OEM replica wheels. Often they change it up and do lower offsets or wider widths. Sometimes they don't, There have been Fuchs replica's forever, BBS replica's forever, and now Volk/Advan/Weds/Work have their replicas too. It happens on the high end of the scale too, Some companies seem to rise above the fray and avoid knock offs. Can't say I've ever seen an RPF1 or NT03+M replica. Not quite sure why this is, but I'm sure Enkei is happy about it. Many of these replicas are made by companies with long histories and proper manufacturing techniques and equipment. They can make a wheel that is round and won't fall apart with normal use. Over the long haul they are generally reliable. But they save themselves a ton of time (and $) but not ever designing anything. They copy and paste. I think there would be a lot less hate towards it if these companies at least did some designing on their own. C'est la vie.
@ cornerbalance: I'm one of those people that grew jaded by the massive amount of kids that come on here on SH, drop their non-sense .02 and think they're right.
I used to follow SH daily....not anymore. It seems that my negative comments are not well digested by the crowd.
Everyone seems like a follower (a band-wagon jumper)....and if you say something different you've got 10 kids that harrass you and call you moron, go figure.
If I'm not mistaken, you run your tuning shop and gather to lots of Nissan, which is cool. Anyway, I've seen lots of entrepreneurs like you that start their own little business, gathering only JDM and high quality parts.
Overtime, some of them stay true to JDM and ONLY JDM, some of them realize that the market is filled with kids that don't wanna spend (or can't spend) so they "accommodate" those kids by start carrying knock off brands (I'm not gonna drop names here).....those new comers realize that there's much profit to be made if JDM parts only are sold, so they expand their inventory and start carrying crap Chinese knock off such as Seibon.
There are also many new-shop owners that preach the good, and try to inform the audience how bad the knock off companies hurt this industry, and WHO really puts lots of R&D into their products.
Some of those new-shop owners give up explaining to those "idiots" that if they keep feeding those shady businesses, sooner than later we won't have a tuning scene anymore because I rest assure you that knock off companies do not have ethic/ morals to step up and start doing their own R&D.
With that said, I totally understand what you've been writing/ thinking, and I couldn't agree more.....maybe in the future you'll get jaded, like me, and stop voicing your opinion.
This new generation of kids (that believe they have the right to enjoy this scene) seems lost and just want to be part of a bigger group. They don't want to be left out from their inner circle, kinda sad if you think about it.
Mike Kojima (I'm sure you know who he is), once said: "kids these days are into cool cars, they don't care anymore about fast cars."
Words to live by.
@ cornerbalance: I'm one of those people that grew jaded by the massive amount of kids that come on here on SH, drop their non-sense .02 and think they're right.
I used to follow SH daily....not anymore. It seems that my negative comments are not well digested by the crowd.
Everyone seems like a follower (a band-wagon jumper)....and if you say something different you've got 10 kids that harrass you and call you moron, go figure.
If I'm not mistaken, you run your tuning shop and gather to lots of Nissan, which is cool. Anyway, I've seen lots of entrepreneurs like you that start their own little business, gathering only JDM and high quality parts.
Overtime, some of them stay true to JDM and ONLY JDM, some of them realize that the market is filled with kids that don't wanna spend (or can't spend) so they "accommodate" those kids by start carrying knock off brands (I'm not gonna drop names here).....those new comers realize that there's much profit to be made if JDM parts only are sold, so they expand their inventory and start carrying crap Chinese knock off such as Seibon.
There are also many new-shop owners that preach the good, and try to inform the audience how bad the knock off companies hurt this industry, and WHO really puts lots of R&D into their products.
Some of those new-shop owners give up explaining to those "idiots" that if they keep feeding those shady businesses, sooner than later we won't have a tuning scene anymore because I rest assure you that knock off companies do not have ethic/ morals to step up and start doing their own R&D.
With that said, I totally understand what you've been writing/ thinking, and I couldn't agree more.....maybe in the future you'll get jaded, like me, and stop voicing your opinion.
This new generation of kids (that believe they have the right to enjoy this scene) seems lost and just want to be part of a bigger group. They don't want to be left out from their inner circle, kinda sad if you think about it.
Mike Kojima (I'm sure you know who he is), once said: "kids these days are into cool cars, they don't care anymore about fast cars."
Words to live by.
I think replica WHEELS and bodykits are ok for track abuse.
I think replica WHEELS and bodykits are ok for track abuse.
I'm sorry but there is again a few things wrong here, and I don't mean to criticize Mike personally with this, but here are things I would've done different.
A poll with that pretext and these kind of options CAN NOT SUCCEED. It does not contain any facts about wheels and why both kinds exist. Instead of settling a conflict here, it drives sides further apart and again is a false display of superiority and haters being reassured with the results here.
Of course the majority would choose ORIGINALS in this context, because it sounds much better.
Here is what should have been done (much of what I've written last week):
In the pretext, you put down the FACTS.
Let's start off with the obvious ones:
- Everyone knows that FORGED wheels are superior "QUALITY" (that's what we shall call "original wheels" from now on because that essentially the big difference). However, "quality" is not exactly the right word here maybe, because this socalled quality comes from the wheel being FORGED thus making it potentially lighter and stronger. Forged wheels do NOT BREAK, they BEND due to being FORGED and NOT CAST. That is all there is to it.
- Many motorsports teams choose CAST wheels (the socalled replicas) as their tools to work with for budget reasons. They choose to put the money in different spots where it may matter more to get faster around the track. CAST wheels clearly have a HUGE price advantage.
To the less obvious facts:
- Mostly the JDM wheels such as RAYS and WORK being considered the makers of the "original, good" wheels, but for some reason BBS, RAYS and WORK have the same design on one of their wheels. Peculiar isn't it?
- R&D applies to CAST wheels the same way it does for FORGED wheels. But "replica" makers choose to use the same design another company has used - the same way RAYS and WORK have done as well. Why? Because there is a market for it. Replicas do NOT HURT the industry. Because RAYS and WORKS and the others don't want to make a CAST, thus cheaper version of their wheels for reputation reasons. At least not all their wheels, which brings us to the next point.
- Most of those JDM wheel manufacturers actually do have some cast wheels. Rays got the 57D and Work the XD9, best examples, popular wheels. These wheels are not "knocked-off" either because they are already in a reasonable price range. Did you know they break too? Well now you do. It doesn't matter if RAYS or ROTA, a CAST wheel WILL break if put under unnatural stress, such as excessive amount of potholes. Many 57D and XD9 have been seen broken.
- Lastly, the price. FORGED wheels cost around 35% more in EU than in US/JP - effectively making them THREE TIMES as expensive as a set of cast wheels. To put that in numbers I'll copy-paste: "the SAME set of TE37 sold in the US for 3300 Dollar costs you 4100 dollar in Europe".
THEN, AFTER you have stated all the FACTS you give GOOD poll options:
1. FORGED: I think people should only buy orignal wheels (3000$) for their superior characteristics such as weight, strength and safety.
2. CAST: I think it is reasonable to buy replicas (1000$) for their huge price advantage and put the money where it matters more.
Then, dear Speedhunters crew, you have an objective poll.
I would like to also paste something I've written last week which has become all too common through the ease of use of the Internet.
"To the less technical side of things;
Unfortunately wheels have become main target for very simple reasons, they're the most obvious part of any car when changed, combined with humanity's urge to argue, for the sake of arguing.
I's also very interesting to see how different parts of the world and different scenes react to these things (not only wheels).
In the UK barely anyone gives a **** what wheel brand you run and they appreciate it.
On the EvoM forums you get almost kicked off when you just mention "stretch".
And in Germany you can GTFO if you drive anything but a German car."
Before you say anything; that I am a replica wheel lover for example. I just like objectivity and I run a set of genuine TE37SL.
Again, CAST wheels have nothing wrong with them, consider yourself fortunate if you can afford a FORGED set.
I'm sorry but there is again a few things wrong here, and I don't mean to criticize Mike personally with this, but here are things I would've done different.
A poll with that pretext and these kind of options CAN NOT SUCCEED. It does not contain any facts about wheels and why both kinds exist. Instead of settling a conflict here, it drives sides further apart and again is a false display of superiority and haters being reassured with the results here.
Of course the majority would choose ORIGINALS in this context, because it sounds much better.
Here is what should have been done (much of what I've written last week):
In the pretext, you put down the FACTS.
Let's start off with the obvious ones:
- Everyone knows that FORGED wheels are superior "QUALITY" (that's what we shall call "original wheels" from now on because that essentially the big difference). However, "quality" is not exactly the right word here maybe, because this socalled quality comes from the wheel being FORGED thus making it potentially lighter and stronger. Forged wheels do NOT BREAK, they BEND due to being FORGED and NOT CAST. That is all there is to it.
- Many motorsports teams choose CAST wheels (the socalled replicas) as their tools to work with for budget reasons. They choose to put the money in different spots where it may matter more to get faster around the track. CAST wheels clearly have a HUGE price advantage.
To the less obvious facts:
- Mostly the JDM wheels such as RAYS and WORK being considered the makers of the "original, good" wheels, but for some reason BBS, RAYS and WORK have the same design on one of their wheels. Peculiar isn't it?
- R&D applies to CAST wheels the same way it does for FORGED wheels. But "replica" makers choose to use the same design another company has used - the same way RAYS and WORK have done as well. Why? Because there is a market for it. Replicas do NOT HURT the industry. Because RAYS and WORKS and the others don't want to make a CAST, thus cheaper version of their wheels for reputation reasons. At least not all their wheels, which brings us to the next point.
- Most of those JDM wheel manufacturers actually do have some cast wheels. Rays got the 57D and Work the XD9, best examples, popular wheels. These wheels are not "knocked-off" either because they are already in a reasonable price range. Did you know they break too? Well now you do. It doesn't matter if RAYS or ROTA, a CAST wheel WILL break if put under unnatural stress, such as excessive amount of potholes. Many 57D and XD9 have been seen broken.
- Lastly, the price. FORGED wheels cost around 35% more in EU than in US/JP - effectively making them THREE TIMES as expensive as a set of cast wheels. To put that in numbers I'll copy-paste: "the SAME set of TE37 sold in the US for 3300 Dollar costs you 4100 dollar in Europe".
THEN, AFTER you have stated all the FACTS you give GOOD poll options:
1. FORGED: I think people should only buy orignal wheels (3000$) for their superior characteristics such as weight, strength and safety.
2. CAST: I think it is reasonable to buy replicas (1000$) for their huge price advantage and put the money where it matters more.
Then, dear Speedhunters crew, you have an objective poll.
I would like to also paste something I've written last week which has become all too common through the ease of use of the Internet.
"To the less technical side of things;
Unfortunately wheels have become main target for very simple reasons, they're the most obvious part of any car when changed, combined with humanity's urge to argue, for the sake of arguing.
I's also very interesting to see how different parts of the world and different scenes react to these things (not only wheels).
In the UK barely anyone gives a **** what wheel brand you run and they appreciate it.
On the EvoM forums you get almost kicked off when you just mention "stretch".
And in Germany you can GTFO if you drive anything but a German car."
Before you say anything; that I am a replica wheel lover for example. I just like objectivity and I run a set of genuine TE37SL.
Again, CAST wheels have nothing wrong with them, consider yourself fortunate if you can afford a FORGED set.
I think some people are misunderstanding the point here. Yes, there are very poor quality replica/knock-off parts out there. I am not, at this time, going to list them. We have all seen pictures and read forum threads about them. There are also replica/knock-off parts that are not poor quality. However, that does not take away from the fact that they are based upon a stolen design. I will use a TE37 replica as an example... I don't doubt that the Sportline TE 6 (ironic the name they chose) is a decent quality product. My issue is based on the fact that they copied a design from, very likely, the top wheel manufacturer in the world. They decided to steal a proven design, not because they are "opening the market" or whatever rationale the people making money off the sale of this product want to spew out to the disillusioned masses, but because they knew it would put money into their pockets. Let's not be naive here. If this company is so fantastic and truly has the best interest of the enthusiast at heart, they would be creating new, innovative designs to give the enthusiast options, not riding the coattails of, arguably, the most popular Japanese wheel to ever be produced, the Volk Racing TE37.I am happy to admit that, yes, I love JDM parts. However, I do not love them because I believe them to be far superior to every other part out there. I will say that I would never modify my car with a part that I did not believe to be superior to the part it is replacing (reasonable logic for anyone modifying a car, no?), but that does not mean that there are not quality parts that come out of the United States or any other place in the world. My affinity to JDM comes from the high quality, rarity, and, most importantly, the attention to detail. I am not suggesting that a set of Rays wheels are indestructible - that is a ridiculous claim. Yes, Rays wheels bend and break occasionally. However, there is a reason they are among the top wheel manufacturers in the world. And, yes, there are "enthusiasts" in Japan who are rocking fake wheels. That does not mean that their purchases of those unoriginal wheels is not, in some way, harming the original designer. It is. Although Rays has undoubtedly been affected by companies like Rota, Varrstoen, Sportline, Konig, etc..., they have survived having their designs ripped off for years because they make a large majority of their sales and profit from OEM manufacturing as opposed to aftermarket wheel sales. (Unfortunately, this is not the case with aero.)This issue is not about money, as people are making it out to be. This is about intellectual property theft. (Just out of curiosity, what are the replica supporters' thoughts on plagiarism?) There are plenty of affordable, original options out there for the budget-conscious consumer. I cannot tell someone how to spend their money. However, I do take issue with people suggesting that knock-offs and replicas do not harm the industry. That is just not true. There is much that goes into creating original designs and prototyping. It is not as simple as suggesting that "if companies do not want to have their designs stolen, then they should lower their outrageous prices." It's just not the case. Replica companies ALWAYS make more in profit than the original designers who pay to R&D their own parts. Short term greed leads to long term failure and, sadly, it affects everyone. Maybe not today and maybe not tomorrow. But it does. For evidence, we can look at the trend in parts being produced from great companies in Japan. It does affect everyone. People just don't care or want to believe that. If one's ride looks good today and gets a 'thumbs up' from the guy at a local coffee meet who could, in actuality, care less about parts for that car or a "that looks sick" from a misguided forum audience, then, in their mind, they have succeeded. It is sad. We see it on our forums every day with broadcasts of cars rocking fake parts showing off their "features." More often than not, no one says anything discouraging when someone posts up pictures of their fake aero or knock-off wheels. It should be the other way around.Yes, replicas and knock-offs are not going anywhere any time soon - in many parts of the world, but if we refuse to praise those corner-cutting projects featuring those parts or attempt to [politely] enlighten the people who may know no better, then we are doing our part in preserving a culture I have loved for years and want to see grow and prosper with the release of more and more great parts...
I think some people are misunderstanding the point here. Yes, there are very poor quality replica/knock-off parts out there. I am not, at this time, going to list them. We have all seen pictures and read forum threads about them. There are also replica/knock-off parts that are not poor quality. However, that does not take away from the fact that they are based upon a stolen design. I will use a TE37 replica as an example... I don't doubt that the Sportline TE 6 (ironic the name they chose) is a decent quality product. My issue is based on the fact that they copied a design from, very likely, the top wheel manufacturer in the world. They decided to steal a proven design, not because they are "opening the market" or whatever rationale the people making money off the sale of this product want to spew out to the disillusioned masses, but because they knew it would put money into their pockets. Let's not be naive here. If this company is so fantastic and truly has the best interest of the enthusiast at heart, they would be creating new, innovative designs to give the enthusiast options, not riding the coattails of, arguably, the most popular Japanese wheel to ever be produced, the Volk Racing TE37.I am happy to admit that, yes, I love JDM parts. However, I do not love them because I believe them to be far superior to every other part out there. I will say that I would never modify my car with a part that I did not believe to be superior to the part it is replacing (reasonable logic for anyone modifying a car, no?), but that does not mean that there are not quality parts that come out of the United States or any other place in the world. My affinity to JDM comes from the high quality, rarity, and, most importantly, the attention to detail. I am not suggesting that a set of Rays wheels are indestructible - that is a ridiculous claim. Yes, Rays wheels bend and break occasionally. However, there is a reason they are among the top wheel manufacturers in the world. And, yes, there are "enthusiasts" in Japan who are rocking fake wheels. That does not mean that their purchases of those unoriginal wheels is not, in some way, harming the original designer. It is. Although Rays has undoubtedly been affected by companies like Rota, Varrstoen, Sportline, Konig, etc..., they have survived having their designs ripped off for years because they make a large majority of their sales and profit from OEM manufacturing as opposed to aftermarket wheel sales. (Unfortunately, this is not the case with aero.)This issue is not about money, as people are making it out to be. This is about intellectual property theft. (Just out of curiosity, what are the replica supporters' thoughts on plagiarism?) There are plenty of affordable, original options out there for the budget-conscious consumer. I cannot tell someone how to spend their money. However, I do take issue with people suggesting that knock-offs and replicas do not harm the industry. That is just not true. There is much that goes into creating original designs and prototyping. It is not as simple as suggesting that "if companies do not want to have their designs stolen, then they should lower their outrageous prices." It's just not the case. Replica companies ALWAYS make more in profit than the original designers who pay to R&D their own parts. Short term greed leads to long term failure and, sadly, it affects everyone. Maybe not today and maybe not tomorrow. But it does. For evidence, we can look at the trend in parts being produced from great companies in Japan. It does affect everyone. People just don't care or want to believe that. If one's ride looks good today and gets a 'thumbs up' from the guy at a local coffee meet who could, in actuality, care less about parts for that car or a "that looks sick" from a misguided forum audience, then, in their mind, they have succeeded. It is sad. We see it on our forums every day with broadcasts of cars rocking fake parts showing off their "features." More often than not, no one says anything discouraging when someone posts up pictures of their fake aero or knock-off wheels. It should be the other way around.Yes, replicas and knock-offs are not going anywhere any time soon - in many parts of the world, but if we refuse to praise those corner-cutting projects featuring those parts or attempt to [politely] enlighten the people who may know no better, then we are doing our part in preserving a culture I have loved for years and want to see grow and prosper with the release of more and more great parts...
hmmm... It's almost impossible to get Wheels like Work or Rays in my country... Yeah-import ,but its too stressful and expensive.
So replicas was fine for me
Since I saw a Sakura's replica made by Rota... Okay I can understand a chinese Advans, they fits everywhere, they're cheap, "don't care about qualty, but they 're cheap an looks like real ones".
But they dug up a one of the rarest rims ever! Rota pissed me as hell! I hate them! Opel Tigra on Sakuras... "don't want to live on this planet anymore" :[
hmmm... It's almost impossible to get Wheels like Work or Rays in my country... Yeah-import ,but its too stressful and expensive.
So replicas was fine for me
Since I saw a Sakura's replica made by Rota... Okay I can understand a chinese Advans, they fits everywhere, they're cheap, "don't care about qualty, but they 're cheap an looks like real ones".
But they dug up a one of the rarest rims ever! Rota pissed me as hell! I hate them! Opel Tigra on Sakuras... "don't want to live on this planet anymore" :[
A. JDM- You still troll daily.
B. You also don't mention the fact that the Yen has doubled vs the dollar since 07 and there's little to no profit selling genuine JDM parts. That in and of itself isn't a bad thing. There are US forged wheel manufacturers that do a great job. The bad thing is that a big chunk of the japanese wheels sold in the USA are controlled by one or two distributors. If you want to go broke, sell only legit JDM products. It's not a viable business model.
C. Without the cast wheels, the hobby stands no chance. The ability to dump a 20 year old miata or s14 on rotas or XXRs is what brings people in and expands the base for everyone. It's also cheap wheel guys that do 90% of the actual driving on autox/drift/track days. If it were just JDM brand whores, the "scene" would be a bunch of kids in silly clothes and flat brimmed hats standing around parking lots looking at their phones.
D. Wheels are one of the only parts that poor kids can't build or tune so it's why no-talent, can't-fabricate, bolt-on tuners cling to them like religion. I'd rather drive a bucket of crap me and my friends built for $1500 then a carpet queen on $4000 wheels.
E. The fact that this discussion is about knockoff wheels (which have a minor overall effect on performance) vs. the taiwan/china coilover/shocks just shows how stacked this entire discussion was from the start. There are guys on Kosei K1s that most of us wouldn't be allowed to run in the same class as because they spent their "wheel and shift knob money" on silly stuff like shocks and sticky tires. If we were talking about shocks, I'd be on the other side of the fence. There are some good value shocks but for the most part, you get what you pay for.
A. JDM- You still troll daily.
B. You also don't mention the fact that the Yen has doubled vs the dollar since 07 and there's little to no profit selling genuine JDM parts. That in and of itself isn't a bad thing. There are US forged wheel manufacturers that do a great job. The bad thing is that a big chunk of the japanese wheels sold in the USA are controlled by one or two distributors. If you want to go broke, sell only legit JDM products. It's not a viable business model.
C. Without the cast wheels, the hobby stands no chance. The ability to dump a 20 year old miata or s14 on rotas or XXRs is what brings people in and expands the base for everyone. It's also cheap wheel guys that do 90% of the actual driving on autox/drift/track days. If it were just JDM brand whores, the "scene" would be a bunch of kids in silly clothes and flat brimmed hats standing around parking lots looking at their phones.
D. Wheels are one of the only parts that poor kids can't build or tune so it's why no-talent, can't-fabricate, bolt-on tuners cling to them like religion. I'd rather drive a bucket of crap me and my friends built for $1500 then a carpet queen on $4000 wheels.
E. The fact that this discussion is about knockoff wheels (which have a minor overall effect on performance) vs. the taiwan/china coilover/shocks just shows how stacked this entire discussion was from the start. There are guys on Kosei K1s that most of us wouldn't be allowed to run in the same class as because they spent their "wheel and shift knob money" on silly stuff like shocks and sticky tires. If we were talking about shocks, I'd be on the other side of the fence. There are some good value shocks but for the most part, you get what you pay for.
@JDMized @okaycolin @PSUwagon You did state he should find another hobby to impress his girl with...sounds like this is what JDMized is into cars for...I think this self-righteous fool should find the door instead of playing the defender of all things original, its not your money, its not your company, its not your cars. This is a capitalist world we live in JDMCastro sorry that there's some competition.
@MellowGold I've had Square rims on my s13 for almost a year now and Brooklyn's got some not so BBS friendly, pothole infested streets so they do the job
Never EVER replicas.
NEVER!!!!1
@MrZuffenhausen Thats stupid, it should be the other way round. Forged vs cast argument etc Quality where quality counts!
@JDMphasis Very well said ;)))
Buy whatever you want. Its your life, it is very short, don't waste your time on meaningless stuff like this...
Personally I've only owned wheels made by reputable manufacturers Work, Forgeline, Enkei, etc. because I have the money to spend on the real deal. If I did not have the $ to buy legit wheels, I would buy reps all day. If you can create a product that people want to buy and is affordable to a larger majority of people, more power to you! These wheels aren't even comparable. The Work, BBS, SSR companies aren't targeting kids that are more inclined to buy Rotas anyway, so I don't see how the replica wheel manufacturers are hurting the big names. If I don't have the money to buy the big names then I was never a potential customer, and by buying a replica wheel I have not taken a potential sale away from the big name manufacturer.
I never understood this debate. I think it's used by bloggers to drive traffic to their sites because they somehow get guys like me that really don't give a sh*t about what wheels/car the other guy is rocking to comment on a meaningless blog post...
Now that I've successfully wasted my time and everyone else's... I'm going to attempt to fit my Work Rezax II's onto my newly purchased Audi...
Original companies such as VOLK RACING develop certain products. When another company comes around and makes profit on something they didn't even remotely contribute on, WE as a community are not able to move forward. The now affordable product becomes just that. ANOTHER product...The market becomes so saturated with so many replicas of the same product that no new funds or innovation comes in and therefore it all FLAT LINES. I'll rain upwards the day R**A comes out with a new design which trickled down from F1 technology. Such as Volk, Enkei and others do.
IMO the used market doesn't hurt the Original companies as bad as a Monsoon of replicated products. The reason why the originals may continue to go up in price is because these companies are not able to make a profit due to so many counterfeits in the first place. If we as an industry supported these companies, the variety and support of QUALITY aftermarket products would only increase...
Support those companies that give back to the industry...not those that Cash in and walk away...
@AlexanderEvensen For someone that admits their uneducated about what are reps/fakes and what's genuine you seem to be throwing your uneducated opinion around alot on the subject you admit you know little about
@KE20 Not knowing which wheels are what isn't what the discussion is about. And it's not what I replied to here. I don't see how it matters. Which of my replies do you think shouldn't have been posted due to me not knowing which wheels are replicas and which aren't?
i got a set of GENUINE Advan SA3R V2 for sale. HMU if anyone is interested.
michaelfhope (@) gmail.com
modifying cars is expensive enough I dont see the need spending a fortune on wheels so I guess replicas are just fine if someone really wants the style in a cheaper way.... Im just happy enough when my car survives a race season so I dont see the purpose buying expensive wheels anyway
guess only hardparkers care about fakes ;-p
@Fg2_FrAn Unfortunately that's not quite how it works. Opinions don't matter, facts do. The price you're talking about is coming from how the wheels are made in original form, they are FORGED.
First off, let's state clearly, FAKES are not equal to REPLICAS. We will talk about replicas now.
Replicas do not hurt the market in any way, on contrary, they provide for DEMAND. If RAYS and co. would make CAST versions of their FORGED wheels there would be no market for replica makers.
Note that most wheels by for example RAYS or WORK that are actually CAST in original form (such as the 57D or the XD9) are not replicated due to already being in a reasonable price range. RAYS and WORK have used BBS designs for their wheels as well, however they have never gotten a bad reputation because they were made FORGED. FORGED wheels are potentially lighter and stronger, but CAST wheels only cost a fraction. Many motorsports teams on a budget choose CAST wheels. FORGED wheels don't break, they bend. CAST wheels are the same for RAYS, WORK and ROTA, if put under unnatural stress they may break.
Every concern regarding the main 2 aspects in this discussion about QUALITY (i.e. forged vs cast) and DESIGN can be argued against with the existing demand and the fact that the original manufacturers will not produce them. In 99% of all cases you will find that the original version of replicated wheels are FORGED and have a popular design (there are exceptions).
You can make analogies to all kinds of things with all aspects above. Like 300 dollar suit vs 5000 dollar suit.
The only thing you shouldn't do is passing replicas as the original. As for the rest there is nothing wrong with Replicas.
I'd like to add that fatlace is slightly hypocritical.
Go and look at the Rotiform MIA and the Rotiform SJC, while you're at it check the CCW LM20 and CCW Classics too. No doubt they all are fantastic wheels but it's pretty clear that the designs originate somewhere else.
On another note, the reason why most of the rotiforms have not been replicated is that they are offering CAST versions of their wheels at reasonable prices. +1
I'm sorry, but much of what has been posted here in support of replicas and knock-offs is just not true. Despite what many people want to believe, replicas and knock-offs do harm the industry. It is natural for people to justify their own purchases and many get offended when it is suggested that they have cut corners with their project and contributed to the marauding of an industry of which they are supposed to be an enthusiast. They use the flawed rationale that replicas actually help the industry. That could not be further from the truth. People suggesting that replicas and knock-offs are "opening up the market" and providing competition are disillusioned. "I want it now and I don't want to work for it" is the mentality. The look of the authentic can be achieved at a fraction of the cost and, for many, that is enough. There is little concern for the repercussions of their decision to support a company that stole a design and that, with every purchase of their parts, drives the real talent and innovators of the industry just a bit further into the ground. We do not see it as much in the wheel industry because many of the top aftermarket wheel companies make most of their profit with OEM wheel manufacturing (Rays Engineering, Enkei, etc...), however, for a more telling picture of the destruction the industry suffers at the hand of knock-off and replica parts, take a look at aero companies. The parts coming out of Japan over the past ten years has drastically diminished. I think many people are under the illusion that these tuning companies are huge corporations like Coca-Cola, Apple, and Reebok. They are not. They are small "boutique" shops, many with a handful of employees. When, weeks after creating a great aero design, they are ripped off at the hand of a money-hungry replicator, they are forced to think twice about innovating in this market. They struggle to break even. The worst part? The better the design, the more "in demand" it is, as you put it, the more they suffer. That translates to the consumer suffering when here we are, ten years later, wondering why there are so few great aero designs coming out from the great Japanese tuners for our platforms. It is right there in front of us. It takes no skill, ingenuity, or risk for a replicator to grab a proven design - something that people want, and copy it with no investment at all. All the pro-replica personalities love to make the argument that, "if Company ABC isn't happy being replicated, they should lower their prices." These people do not consider the capital that was invested into the original design. Market research, design, prototyping, tooling, materials, and manufacturing cost money. It seems as though people selfishly quantify by way of, "What is valuable to ME?" as opposed to considering the elements of what is actually necessary in developing and manufacturing a high quality product. Think about it this way. It is easy for Replica Company X to suggest that JDM Originating Company is ripping you, the consumer, off by charging you $1,200 for their front bumper when you can buy it from them for, say, $500. What the consumer likes is the $500 price tag for something that looks the same as the real deal. What they neglect to consider is the fact that JDM Originating Company has spent thousands of dollars to design and manufacture that original front bumper. Then fly-by-night Replica Company X comes along, steals their design and sells it for $500 and comes out feigning superiority by claiming the JDM Originating Company is overcharging you. Apples to oranges. It is a completely different business model. Consider the fact that it likely costs this replica company $100 to produce that fake bumper and they turn around and charge you $500 for it? They are making a 400% profit on that bumper. And who is ripping you off?
@JDMphasis Hello JDMphasis, I don't mean to start an argument over this, but all you're putting down here are assumptions. Let's break this up.
Who told you that replicated wheels can be made just like that, don't need any testing or development whatsoever?
Replicas are always made in cast meaning its molecular structure is by far not the same as a forged wheel and needs testing the same way an original wheel does.
Prices for original wheels come from the process and materials that are being used when manufacturing them, resulting in a more expensive, superior item in terms of weigth and strength.You indeed get what you pay for.
Who tells you that orginal manufacturer companies would not make any profit making a CAST version of their FORGED wheels?
Fact is, those JDM companies make some CAST wheels themselves, which is exactly the same process that is used for making replicas. Thus you see the prices between RAYS cast wheels and ROTA cast wheels not go far apart.
Why would those companies not go for the profit with CAST wheels they are capable of making, effectively putting replica makers out of the market? My guess is reputation, certainly not because they would make losses. Look at Rotiform, they are doing exactly that, and are pretty successful doing so.
As previously said, "PROOVEN DESIGN" has nothing on the actual weigth and strength of the wheel when the whole manufacturing process behind it is different. For that, all you can say is not to pass a rep as the original, that is it.
About the bumpers you've mentioned it is fairly similar, the JDM original part makers have a reputation for incredible fitment. That plus the materials that are used for making such a high quality bumper push the prices up. Most replica bumper makers will not have the original mold and will use slightly less expensive materials to still make a profit. Same goes for wheels regarding materials, but there is no "fitment" factor in this analogy. Wheels have to be made to certain standards and stregths unlike body kits.
I hope you understand where I'm coming from, and no, I don't run replicas.
@JDMphasis
either way......you make some good points but at the same time.... they're still over-charging. They need to adapt or be out of business... simple as that. Some companies expect to make back half of what they've spent on R & D on a single item.. maybe they should re-consider that profit margin. Because if everyone were buying "real manufacturers parts" these big companies would be absolutely rich. I support companies like shine-auto because they make quality parts for more than half the cost. It makes absolutely no logical sense for me.. a "privateer" to purchase a set of orgin-lab +50 wide fenders for my fd for 550...and end up having to wait 3 months for them to e-mail me back saying they're on back order when I could get a set of knock off ones for 150 bucks... they fit great and i'll end up smashing them up at the local drift track. I'm not rich..but I love my car and working/driving it. I might as well sell my car if i had to buy real parts. I stay away from knock-off's when it comes to engine components but thats about it. Everything else is either bought second hand or a knock-off.
- Mannykiller
Aesthetic piece : replica/knock off = fine
Safety, load bearing or structurally stressed item : replica/knock off = Not fine unless quality can be assured
Representing something that it isn't : replica/knock off = never fine
Aesthetic piece : replica/knock off = fine
Safety, load bearing or structurally stressed item : replica/knock off = Not fine unless quality can be assured
Representing something that it isn't : replica/knock off = never fine
Aesthetic piece : replica/knock off = fine
Safety, load bearing or structurally stressed item : replica/knock off = Not fine unless quality can be assured
Representing something that it isn't : replica/knock off = never fine
Aesthetic piece : replica/knock off = fine
Safety, load bearing or structurally stressed item : replica/knock off = Not fine unless quality can be assured
Representing something that it isn't : replica/knock off = never fine
Aesthetic piece : replica/knock off = fine
Safety, load bearing or structurally stressed item : replica/knock off = Not fine unless quality can be assured
Representing something that it isn't : replica/knock off = never fine
I appreciate these civil responses and not immature personal attacks or things of that nature as is all too common on forums these days. So, thank you. That said, what assumptions am I making? I understand what is being said about cast versus forged wheels. There is no debate: forged is superior to cast. Lighter, stronger, etc... Thus, the high price tag. (Rays Engineering makes cast wheels, as well.)I think the main issue here is design. I never stated that replica wheels do not have to meet a standard of quality. I take no issue with ROTA making wheels. There are many poor quality parts out there and many high quality parts. There are people who swear by ROTA and people who swear off ROTA. I believe variety and providing options and choices for consumers is a positive thing and only improves the industry. My issue is the fact that there is no orignality and no innovation involved in stealing someone else's design. There is such a thing as competition and then there is parasitism. Why can they not make and market wheels with unique designs? Why do ROTA and Varrstoen and multiple other replica wheel companies have to undermine Rays but yet ride their coattails at the same time? Why do they not create their own designs? There are cheaper, original alternatives out there. There is not simply a choice between the real thing or the replica of that same design. The poll begs the question 'Replicas vs. Originals: Where do you stand?' It does not ask which parts are superior or which parts have more 'bang for the buck.' I suppose, at the most basic level, I believe in paying credit where it is due and refusing to reward the company, and thus harming the real talent and innovators, that hasn't earned it. As I have stated, there are some replica companies (including Shine Auto) that may very well make quality parts, but that doesn't mean they haven't stolen the product of someone else's ingenuity, creativity, and hard work.
I understand the logic of not wanting to spend a lot of money on parts that are going to be destroyed at the track. However, that does not dismiss the fact that, somewhere down the line, you, as the consumer, will see and be personally affected by the decision to support the company that steals designs. The originators/innovators do suffer. I suppose my response, using that example provided above, would be... Why must the parts be Origin-Lab? Are there not other original options out there that may better suit your personal budget if you do not want to spend $500 on fenders? Why must it be a replica of the Origin-Lab fenders? Why not remove expensive aero parts when drifting if you are afraid of ruining them? I'm not making this personal, Mannykiller, but I hope you can see/understand my side of the debate. There really is no such thing as ballin' on a budget.I acknowledge there is no end in sight for this debate, but I feel it is a worthy undertaking to make people aware that buying replica parts does harm the true talent of the industry.
I appreciate these civil responses and not immature personal attacks or things of that nature as is all too common on forums these days. So, thank you. That said, what assumptions am I making? I understand what is being said about cast versus forged wheels. There is no debate: forged is superior to cast. Lighter, stronger, etc... Thus, the high price tag. (Rays Engineering makes cast wheels, as well.)I think the main issue here is design. I never stated that replica wheels do not have to meet a standard of quality. I take no issue with ROTA making wheels. There are many poor quality parts out there and many high quality parts. There are people who swear by ROTA and people who swear off ROTA. I believe variety and providing options and choices for consumers is a positive thing and only improves the industry. My issue is the fact that there is no orignality and no innovation involved in stealing someone else's design. There is such a thing as competition and then there is parasitism. Why can they not make and market wheels with unique designs? Why do ROTA and Varrstoen and multiple other replica wheel companies have to undermine Rays but yet ride their coattails at the same time? Why do they not create their own designs? There are cheaper, original alternatives out there. There is not simply a choice between the real thing or the replica of that same design. The poll begs the question 'Replicas vs. Originals: Where do you stand?' It does not ask which parts are superior or which parts have more 'bang for the buck.' I suppose, at the most basic level, I believe in paying credit where it is due and refusing to reward the company, and thus harming the real talent and innovators, that hasn't earned it. As I have stated, there are some replica companies (including Shine Auto) that may very well make quality parts, but that doesn't mean they haven't stolen the product of someone else's ingenuity, creativity, and hard work.
I understand the logic of not wanting to spend a lot of money on parts that are going to be destroyed at the track. However, that does not dismiss the fact that, somewhere down the line, you, as the consumer, will see and be personally affected by the decision to support the company that steals designs. The originators/innovators do suffer. I suppose my response, using that example provided above, would be... Why must the parts be Origin-Lab? Are there not other original options out there that may better suit your personal budget if you do not want to spend $500 on fenders? Why must it be a replica of the Origin-Lab fenders? Why not remove expensive aero parts when drifting if you are afraid of ruining them? I'm not making this personal, Mannykiller, but I hope you can see/understand my side of the debate. There really is no such thing as ballin' on a budget.I acknowledge there is no end in sight for this debate, but I feel it is a worthy undertaking to make people aware that buying replica parts does harm the true talent of the industry.
I appreciate these civil responses and not immature personal attacks or things of that nature as is all too common on forums these days. So, thank you. That said, what assumptions am I making? I understand what is being said about cast versus forged wheels. There is no debate: forged is superior to cast. Lighter, stronger, etc... Thus, the high price tag. (Rays Engineering makes cast wheels, as well.)I think the main issue here is design. I never stated that replica wheels do not have to meet a standard of quality. I take no issue with ROTA making wheels. There are many poor quality parts out there and many high quality parts. There are people who swear by ROTA and people who swear off ROTA. I believe variety and providing options and choices for consumers is a positive thing and only improves the industry. My issue is the fact that there is no orignality and no innovation involved in stealing someone else's design. There is such a thing as competition and then there is parasitism. Why can they not make and market wheels with unique designs? Why do ROTA and Varrstoen and multiple other replica wheel companies have to undermine Rays but yet ride their coattails at the same time? Why do they not create their own designs? There are cheaper, original alternatives out there. There is not simply a choice between the real thing or the replica of that same design. The poll begs the question 'Replicas vs. Originals: Where do you stand?' It does not ask which parts are superior or which parts have more 'bang for the buck.' I suppose, at the most basic level, I believe in paying credit where it is due and refusing to reward the company, and thus harming the real talent and innovators, that hasn't earned it. As I have stated, there are some replica companies (including Shine Auto) that may very well make quality parts, but that doesn't mean they haven't stolen the product of someone else's ingenuity, creativity, and hard work.
I understand the logic of not wanting to spend a lot of money on parts that are going to be destroyed at the track. However, that does not dismiss the fact that, somewhere down the line, you, as the consumer, will see and be personally affected by the decision to support the company that steals designs. The originators/innovators do suffer. I suppose my response, using that example provided above, would be... Why must the parts be Origin-Lab? Are there not other original options out there that may better suit your personal budget if you do not want to spend $500 on fenders? Why must it be a replica of the Origin-Lab fenders? Why not remove expensive aero parts when drifting if you are afraid of ruining them? I'm not making this personal, Mannykiller, but I hope you can see/understand my side of the debate. There really is no such thing as ballin' on a budget.I acknowledge there is no end in sight for this debate, but I feel it is a worthy undertaking to make people aware that buying replica parts does harm the true talent of the industry.
I appreciate these civil responses and not immature personal attacks or things of that nature as is all too common on forums these days. So, thank you. That said, what assumptions am I making? I understand what is being said about cast versus forged wheels. There is no debate: forged is superior to cast. Lighter, stronger, etc... Thus, the high price tag. (Rays Engineering makes cast wheels, as well.)I think the main issue here is design. I never stated that replica wheels do not have to meet a standard of quality. I take no issue with ROTA making wheels. There are many poor quality parts out there and many high quality parts. There are people who swear by ROTA and people who swear off ROTA. I believe variety and providing options and choices for consumers is a positive thing and only improves the industry. My issue is the fact that there is no orignality and no innovation involved in stealing someone else's design. There is such a thing as competition and then there is parasitism. Why can they not make and market wheels with unique designs? Why do ROTA and Varrstoen and multiple other replica wheel companies have to undermine Rays but yet ride their coattails at the same time? Why do they not create their own designs? There are cheaper, original alternatives out there. There is not simply a choice between the real thing or the replica of that same design. The poll begs the question 'Replicas vs. Originals: Where do you stand?' It does not ask which parts are superior or which parts have more 'bang for the buck.' I suppose, at the most basic level, I believe in paying credit where it is due and refusing to reward the company, and thus harming the real talent and innovators, that hasn't earned it. As I have stated, there are some replica companies (including Shine Auto) that may very well make quality parts, but that doesn't mean they haven't stolen the product of someone else's ingenuity, creativity, and hard work.
I understand the logic of not wanting to spend a lot of money on parts that are going to be destroyed at the track. However, that does not dismiss the fact that, somewhere down the line, you, as the consumer, will see and be personally affected by the decision to support the company that steals designs. The originators/innovators do suffer. I suppose my response, using that example provided above, would be... Why must the parts be Origin-Lab? Are there not other original options out there that may better suit your personal budget if you do not want to spend $500 on fenders? Why must it be a replica of the Origin-Lab fenders? Why not remove expensive aero parts when drifting if you are afraid of ruining them? I'm not making this personal, Mannykiller, but I hope you can see/understand my side of the debate. There really is no such thing as ballin' on a budget.I acknowledge there is no end in sight for this debate, but I feel it is a worthy undertaking to make people aware that buying replica parts does harm the true talent of the industry.
I appreciate these civil responses and not immature personal attacks or things of that nature as is all too common on forums these days. So, thank you. That said, what assumptions am I making? I understand what is being said about cast versus forged wheels. There is no debate: forged is superior to cast. Lighter, stronger, etc... Thus, the high price tag. (Rays Engineering makes cast wheels, as well.)I think the main issue here is design. I never stated that replica wheels do not have to meet a standard of quality. I take no issue with ROTA making wheels. There are many poor quality parts out there and many high quality parts. There are people who swear by ROTA and people who swear off ROTA. I believe variety and providing options and choices for consumers is a positive thing and only improves the industry. My issue is the fact that there is no orignality and no innovation involved in stealing someone else's design. There is such a thing as competition and then there is parasitism. Why can they not make and market wheels with unique designs? Why do ROTA and Varrstoen and multiple other replica wheel companies have to undermine Rays but yet ride their coattails at the same time? Why do they not create their own designs? There are cheaper, original alternatives out there. There is not simply a choice between the real thing or the replica of that same design. The poll begs the question 'Replicas vs. Originals: Where do you stand?' It does not ask which parts are superior or which parts have more 'bang for the buck.' I suppose, at the most basic level, I believe in paying credit where it is due and refusing to reward the company, and thus harming the real talent and innovators, that hasn't earned it. As I have stated, there are some replica companies (including Shine Auto) that may very well make quality parts, but that doesn't mean they haven't stolen the product of someone else's ingenuity, creativity, and hard work.
I understand the logic of not wanting to spend a lot of money on parts that are going to be destroyed at the track. However, that does not dismiss the fact that, somewhere down the line, you, as the consumer, will see and be personally affected by the decision to support the company that steals designs. The originators/innovators do suffer. I suppose my response, using that example provided above, would be... Why must the parts be Origin-Lab? Are there not other original options out there that may better suit your personal budget if you do not want to spend $500 on fenders? Why must it be a replica of the Origin-Lab fenders? Why not remove expensive aero parts when drifting if you are afraid of ruining them? I'm not making this personal, Mannykiller, but I hope you can see/understand my side of the debate. There really is no such thing as ballin' on a budget.I acknowledge there is no end in sight for this debate, but I feel it is a worthy undertaking to make people aware that buying replica parts does harm the true talent of the industry.
Without originals there would be nothing to knock off. Unfortunately the kid with the menial job building a mk3 Supra will never get his car in a magazine or even enter a show so who cares if he uses knock-offs? If you're realistic about your goals for your car it will be obvious which way you should go. Shop builds, SEMA cars, race cars, show cars, all need to use the very best products available. No one at Burger King cares if your wheels are fakes and if they do, so what?
Without originals there would be nothing to knock off. Unfortunately the kid with the menial job building a mk3 Supra will never get his car in a magazine or even enter a show so who cares if he uses knock-offs? If you're realistic about your goals for your car it will be obvious which way you should go. Shop builds, SEMA cars, race cars, show cars, all need to use the very best products available. No one at Burger King cares if your wheels are fakes and if they do, so what?
Without originals there would be nothing to knock off. Unfortunately the kid with the menial job building a mk3 Supra will never get his car in a magazine or even enter a show so who cares if he uses knock-offs? If you're realistic about your goals for your car it will be obvious which way you should go. Shop builds, SEMA cars, race cars, show cars, all need to use the very best products available. No one at Burger King cares if your wheels are fakes and if they do, so what?
Without originals there would be nothing to knock off. Unfortunately the kid with the menial job building a mk3 Supra will never get his car in a magazine or even enter a show so who cares if he uses knock-offs? If you're realistic about your goals for your car it will be obvious which way you should go. Shop builds, SEMA cars, race cars, show cars, all need to use the very best products available. No one at Burger King cares if your wheels are fakes and if they do, so what?
Without originals there would be nothing to knock off. Unfortunately the kid with the menial job building a mk3 Supra will never get his car in a magazine or even enter a show so who cares if he uses knock-offs? If you're realistic about your goals for your car it will be obvious which way you should go. Shop builds, SEMA cars, race cars, show cars, all need to use the very best products available. No one at Burger King cares if your wheels are fakes and if they do, so what?
@grandtouring So are wheels classed as a Safety, load bearing or structurally stressed item or an aesthetic piece?
@James1010 Seeing as wheels are holding the car to the road, it would be apparent where those are classified under.
@James1010 And just so we are clear, when I talk about replica/knock off parts I am primarily referring to replicas of parts that are no longer being produced and aesthetic pieces being badges, accents and other parts that are meant to look pretty but not vital to a safe and well running car. I find it egregious for one manufacturer to make a replica of a product that already exists in the market.
Thank you very much. This comment says it all.
@TheFoes is that the ray's on 6th and 11th or the one on prince st? i do hear they have good pizza.
Not all of us have the option of original when parts/cars have been discontinued. I have a BB6 and many of the optional parts and Aero are no longer produced.
why i widen steelies. they are original. not copies of other rims. cheap as hell online. they will take a beating.
why i widen steelies. they are original. not copies of other rims. cheap as hell online. they will take a beating.
why i widen steelies. they are original. not copies of other rims. cheap as hell online. they will take a beating.
why i widen steelies. they are original. not copies of other rims. cheap as hell online. they will take a beating.
@JDMphasis The niveau of this conversation is much appreciated.
I see what you're saying about the stolen designs, which is indeed the only thing replica makers can be blamed for in my opinion. But why wouldn't replica makers give the consumers what they ask for if the original makers don't? Let me ask you once more this one thing: Why don't the big companies make a cast version just like Rotiform does? I think it's the original manufacturers fault (this applies mostly only to wheels due to given standards) that there is room for replica makers. With the cheaper version that consumers obviously do want, they would make the profit to reward the talent and hard work for the innovative designs.
But this is a step forward, at least we agree on that the actual quality is not the issue.
@JDMphasis The niveau of this conversation is much appreciated.
I see what you're saying about the stolen designs, which is indeed the only thing replica makers can be blamed for in my opinion. But why wouldn't replica makers give the consumers what they ask for if the original makers don't? Let me ask you once more this one thing: Why don't the big companies make a cast version just like Rotiform does? I think it's the original manufacturers fault (this applies mostly only to wheels due to given standards) that there is room for replica makers. With the cheaper version that consumers obviously do want, they would make the profit to reward the talent and hard work for the innovative designs.
But this is a step forward, at least we agree on that the actual quality is not the issue.
@JDMphasis The niveau of this conversation is much appreciated.
I see what you're saying about the stolen designs, which is indeed the only thing replica makers can be blamed for in my opinion. But why wouldn't replica makers give the consumers what they ask for if the original makers don't? Let me ask you once more this one thing: Why don't the big companies make a cast version just like Rotiform does? I think it's the original manufacturers fault (this applies mostly only to wheels due to given standards) that there is room for replica makers. With the cheaper version that consumers obviously do want, they would make the profit to reward the talent and hard work for the innovative designs.
But this is a step forward, at least we agree on that the actual quality is not the issue.
I bought a set of wood-spoked rims the other day for my Bentley. I'm sure I'll be fine under 80mph conditions because it looks hella fine with English engineering. #classy
Originals are for true motorheads with track in mind. If you have a 1000 euro car with hellaflush replica wheels, is ok too. I put the looks versus track and performance issue here.
Want just looks - replicas are ok
Want performance - then is the originals.
Simple, isnt it?
Originals.
JDMphasis though this was posted 2 years ago, and though im grasping the true meanings/Ins&Outs of a style i really love. For the most part i understand were your come from in the point you've stated the replicas and knocks offs are a problem. As i read the comments i've come to agree that yeah, there nothing like the original part and manufacturing of it. Originality of Japanese parts in general are a big part of the jdm style, to me its apart of what gives it its names. The problem is with the originally, hard work, & craftsmanship lies the vulnerability with in the making of the product because of the price tag placed on it afterwards. I feel if the producer of certain wheel companies that produce original products for the consumer would present other options around there product like a different line of wheel with reasonable prices. It sort of would be no need for replicas or knock off because it would be more options to choose from. But as we know people still are going to plagiarize but i feel with Originals with a reasonable price along with great options to choose from the original producer would not have to suffer