Why Don’t We Talk About The Golf R?
Remember The R

When you think about 2.0-litre turbocharged, all-wheel drive cars, what first comes to mind?

Imprezas and Lancer Evolutions? Maybe Celicas? There’s probably a good reason for this, as we associate these models with their successes in the World Rally Championship (WRC), perceived or otherwise. They were the last of a generation of the ‘race on Sunday, sell on Monday’ rally cars.

When the French domination of the WRC began at the turn of the millennium, save for a Ford-shaped blip in 2006 and 2007 we never really saw those cars on the stages being sold in the showroom again. Sure, there were some marketing cash-ins like the Citroën C4 ‘By Loeb’ and the occasional bonafide front-wheel drive hot hatch such as the Focus RS, but the gap between race car and road car continued to widen.

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It was no wonder then that interest in the sport began to fade for a couple of decades. When you remove the ability for someone to walk into a dealership and drive off in a car which shared the same basic underpinnings as McRae’s Group A Impreza – albeit without the livery – you do untold damage to the fans’ relationship with the sport.

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Curiously, when the Germans decided it was their turn to conquer the WRC, Volkswagen never capitalised on this opportunity either. While the Polo R WRC won back-to-back-to-back-to-back constructor titles, matching the combined totals of Subaru and Mitsubishi, they too only released a lukewarm front-wheel drive hatchback in the shape of the 2013 Volkswagen Polo R WRC.

I think it’s criminal that the road-going version shared its name with the actual world championship-winning car, but there was something lurking which more than made up for this: The Golf R.

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The Mk7 Golf R’s arrival in 2014 was missed by a lot of people. It followed in the footsteps of the original Mk6 Golf R, and like that car it sat awkwardly in Volkswagen’s lineup. It was clearly the most potent car in the manufacturer’s performance range, but it’s had to live its life in the GTI’s shadow. There were no tartan seats or flourishes of colour; instead it identified itself with hints of black and silver.

Where the GTI is Volkswagen’s crowd-pleasing front man, the Golf R is the personal security standing quietly in the background, waiting for things to kick off.

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This is something I will be expanding on in an upcoming feature. That is, if there’s one thing above all else that the GTI and R share, it’s how well rounded they both are.

They’re both very, very good at what they do, to the point where they might even feel a little bit underwhelming in stock guise. This is actually the beauty of both models, and a big part of the reason why they are the perfect base cars to modify.

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In general, Golfs are refined and pretty sensible; even the performance models. They can be used everyday in every circumstance, and be more than good at what they’re doing.

But, what a lot of people don’t realise is just how much potential they have in reserve, particularly with the Mk7 R.

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Donal Maher is one of many who has realised the potential of the Golf R. He’s taken his 2016 car from stock to its ultimate form, all while keeping it subtle and ensuring that it flies well below the radar.

Even the most astute of VW fans would be excused for not appreciating it at first glance.

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What makes his different from most other Golf Rs is that it’s both a three-door and a 6-speed manual. In a world dominated by five-door DSG examples, it does make a nice change and also addresses one of the key dividers on driving experience.

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That it boasts some 500hp and 407ft/lbs is further icing on the cake. Perhaps what’s even more impressive – and this is common with the 2.0-litre turbocharged Gen III EA888 as found in the Mk7 R – is that this is achieved with just bolt-ons and is delivered in a usable and reliable manner.

A 66% power increase with standard pistons, connecting rods, crank et al.? That’s a fairly ringing endorsement for how over-engineered these cars are from factory.

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The majority of this power increase comes from the engine’s improved breathing abilities. The factory turbocharger has been replaced with a Revo IS38ETR, which features larger compressor and turbine wheels and increased airflow from the re-profiled housing. The turbo down-pipe has been changed to a larger Scorpion item, complete with sports cat, which flows into a Milltek cat-back exhaust system.

On the intake side, there’s a Revo carbon series air intake, along with their front-mount intercooler which is equipped with hard pipes. An increased demand for fuelling has been addressed with uprated high and low pressure fuel pumps. Engine management is again by Revo, with switchable engine maps, and there’s also a RacingLine catch can and oil management system.

Further to all of this are the various carbon fibre covers and RacingLine billet dress-up pieces. Looks good, makes power.

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The transmission remains mostly stock, save for an APR short shifter, 42 Draft Designs bushings, and a Sachs uprated four-paddle clutch. Otherwise, the AWD Haldex-based system is as it left the factory.

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The same level of consideration and thought has been applied throughout the car, which ensures not just consistency but high standards as well. The interior is a perfect example of improving what needs to be improved, and leaving the rest well alone.

If there’s one area the Golf R falls down on from factory, it’s the seats. Donal has replaced his with a matching pair of leather VW/Audi Exclusive wingback Recaros, while also choosing to upgrade the rear shells to carbon fibre. The Alcantara-trimmed OE steering wheel matches the custom shift gaiter.

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The rear of the car is more performance focused, with the rear seat having been removed with a Stern Motorsport Clubsport delete kit which features replacement carpet and and cargo netting attached to carbon fibre support brace, similar to the setup found in the GTI Clubsport S.

In tandem with this kit, there’s also a RacingLine carbon rear chassis brace tying the rear of the car together, both figuratively and literally.

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Unsurprisingly, the exterior follows the same theme of ‘blink and you’ll miss it’ levels of subtlety. Little dashes of carbon fibre here and there, a rear wiper delete, smoothed front bumper, rolled and widened front wings with Flow Designs front and rear diffusers, and an Aerofabb rear spoiler.

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The only real extravagance Donal has allowed himself on the exterior is the addition of genuine centre-lock 19-inch OZ Ultraleggera HLT wheels, and even these are subtle.

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The wheels are secured to the hubs with custom 5×112-to-Porsche-centre-lock adapters, and are fastened with anodised Porsche GT3 centre-lock nuts. A Porsche GT3 secondary pin locking system serves as a failsafe.

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Less subtle are the RacingLine mono-block 6-piston brake callipers with 380mm two-piece slotted discs. The rears, too, have been upgraded to 356mm discs. There are braided brake lines front and rear, filled with Motul Racing fluid.

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The chassis modifications might be minimal, but they’re effective. In addition to the aforementioned rear brace, a front strut brace hides beneath the plastic scuttle panel, while a RacingLine subframe alignment kit reduces deflection from the subframes and attached suspension components.

The car is sprung on BILSTEIN B14 adjustable front coilovers with matching adjustable rear dampers and springs housed within the multi-link setup.

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Donal has put together an exquisite car, one which I’m sure most will be able to appreciate, regardless of personal manufacturer allegiances. I feel like we can all take something away from it.

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It’s cars like this that attracted me to the Volkswagen scene in the first place; subtle powerhouses that remain invisible to the majority of other road users. In a world of near-constant surveillance, there’s a lot to be said for going unnoticed.

While the Golf R itself might not have the racing pedigree and history behind the model name, I think it’s a car worthy of – at the very least – being included in the conversation when we talk about great all-wheel drive cars.

If anything, it’s only real sin is that it’s probably a bit too good from factory, requiring either massive amounts of speed or talent to find its limits. Otherwise, it usually feels unbothered from day to day. The other side of that coin is that it allows mere mortals to experience levels of speed and performance that they probably wouldn’t otherwise.

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While, officially, the Golf R had nothing to do with Volkswagen’s WRC program, there’s a part of me that feels the engineers involved in the project almost certainly had posters of flying 555-liveried Imprezas on their walls growing up, or watched videos of Mr. Mäkinen on their lunch break.

We might be past the days of buying WRC cars in our local dealerships, but we should be thankful that manufacturers still build cars like the Golf R.

Paddy McGrath
Instagram: pmcgphotos
Twitter: pmcgphotos
paddy@speedhunters.com

The Cutting Room Floor
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1

Yes, finally, the MK7 Golf R gets the respect it deserves! Thank you so much for this article, I loved it and the car. I am not particularly a Golf fan, but you can't not love the MK7 Golf R. Thanks again, and please feature another one!

2

VW's. Bleugh. That's all that needs to be said.

3

Great work as always Paddy. I have an R estate and enjoy how much 'white goods' flack these cars get in comments sections. Like most things that get flack in comments sections, it's usually from people who've never driven one. My only niggle is that I'd prefer a manual but they never built the estate with one. It's an everyday Golf with rally car pace when the right road presents itself - pretty much perfect daily.

Author4

The R Estate is probably the only car I feel could replace my GTI.

5

Nissan Pulsar GTi R

6

Or a mazda 323 gtx .. Loved them when I was younger and always wanted one

7

There's one on swapz an even rarer GTAE ive been trying to buy it and swap it for a while now but to no avail.

Author8

Another oft forgotten car. I must try and find one for a feature actually.

9

If only I can sell my whole being to be able to buy this I will in a heartbeat.

10

I was wondering just wondering hows project GTI ? maybe we will see an update tomorrow hahahha missing it so much.

11

The title question is one I've been asking myself for years. It doesn't make sense that the AWD R isn't at least as popular as the GTI. Maybe it's the huge starting price gap? But also, as someone who loves the simplicity of '90s car design, and seeing that the Golf has maintained that in the face of modern over-styling, the R is one of very few current cars I could actually see myself in.

12

David, I'm not sure where you are from but here in the UK I would say it far surpasses the sales of the GTI. I work for VWG and we get loads of calls for R parts, next to none for GTI in comparison. I can regularly see two or 3 R's on the way to work but hardly a GTI. Also some of the lease deals here have meant that you would be stupid to buy a GTI when the R could be had for less than £200 a month at one point.

13

That's weird. In the US, I see GTIs all over the place, while rarely an R.

14

Like i say, here people lease cars rather than buy and there seemed to have been a surplus at some point as they were literally everywhere. With minimal price difference it was kind of pointless buying a GTI. I can't actually remember the last time i saw a GTI after MK5.

Author15

I think the popularity of the R in the UK was down to the incredible finance deals available on them. The GTI is definitely the more popular MK7 just across the water here.

16

I love everything about the 7R and hope to find space for one in my garage someday. Nothing comes close to it as far as the value/cost per horsepower ratio.

17
Spirit Road USA

This hatch is rad! Love it!

18

I have a mk6 R and I absolutely love it! I've put over 50k on it in 18 months and (besides the adaptive headlights) I haven't had a single issue with it. I drive 60 miles a day to and from work, did 400 miles in it at the weekend and it just soaks it all up. It's got an Evom's intake, CTS turbo back exhaust, Neuspeed front mount intercooler, Forge turbo muffler delete (what a pointless product!), Autotech HPFP internals and an IE stage 2 tune. It's a great all rounder, works for moving people, luggage and junk all while passing under the rader (for the most part). The only issue I have are people in SUV's who drive up my ar$e because it's a small hatchback!

I love the mk7's too, the capability those engines have is super impressive!

19

I think the problem is the price. 40k is a weird place to be in 2020. Same with new sti Imprezas and the focus rs.. You're into Audi/bmw/mb price territory, but it's still a Volkswagen/subaru/Ford Focus. for die hard enthusiasts this won't matter, but they are starting to get few and far between. Most will take the additional features and tech that come with the luxury manufacturers.

if the civic type r rumors are true that they will be possibly offering awd, that will be a surefire contender despite it's polarizing design.

20

A while back, the YT channel VTEC Academy got an FK8 specifically to take the engine out and figure out how to mount it in older Hondas - it is the guy who owns HASport, after all, the most popular Honda engine swap mount company. But they took a deep look at the chassis, and found that it seemed like it was designed around a possible adaptation into an AWD architecture.

Actually, here I found the video. The specific mention of AWD is at 7:10, but the whole video is worth watching if you're at all interested in that car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8YiRDodASE

21

A few things here. First of all, the Golf GTI isn't at all desirable to me because it's wrong wheel drive.
Second, if you've ever been in a Golf R you'll instantly dial in on the reason I wouldn't buy it. It feels like a box-ticking exercise. It fulfills the requirement to go from 0 to 60 in x period of time, it has four driven wheels and it is finished to a decent point.

What the car never conveyed to me, was any sort of emotion.

If you've watched the youtube sleeper Skoda Superb, you can see how the car has a Golf R engine with all the right bits swapped and it has a smashing 560bhp - its more than enough power. What you can also see is the total lack of driving passion derived from the experience.

The Golf R is a very important car and I'd drive one if they weren't SO common on Britain's roads (and so commonly stolen), but also, if more of an experience was conveyed to the driver other than simply 'its competent'.

The mods on this car are really nicely done, love the centre locks and the brakes - very much a connoisseur's choice. Fair play to the owner.

Author22

When I read someone write 'wrong wheel drive' I already know that the rest of what they're about to say is probably going to be waffle.

Some of the best handling cars of all time are FWD; EK9, DC2, 205 GTi, Clio RS etc. Open your mind, you have no idea what you're missing out on!

23
Gwynn Ballantyne

I like these a lot on paper and in photos. I live in a place where 4wd is pretty helpful 6mo of the year and everyone has a subaru of some sort. But a good friend of mine had a regular golf from new and it was always broken. I swear it was made of macaroni and glitter. Put me off VW completely.

Author24

I think everyone knows of someone with a car that gave them utter heart ache. It happens with all manufacturers, but unless it was a common thing, I'm not sure it would out me off.

FWIW, I've had two VWs, owned them for a combined 7 years and the only issues I've ever had was an alternator pulley falling off on my Caddy, and a failed coilpack (which turned out to be fake) on the GTI.

25

Even though I dislike anything coming from the VAG group (that's besides Mk1 Golfs) I do accept that they are extremely effective and almost anyone can go fast in one of them. Obviously people nowadays aren't interested in the WRC (and I don't blame them) so they don't want to buy a car that ressembles the WRCars.
I like the mods on this car (not the size of the wheels though) and I do appreciate the fact that it's a sleeper but this amount of money puts you on the driver's seat of a Lancia Delta integrale. No need to explain what I'd choose if I had the money and was looking for a 4wd rally-inspired car.

Author26

He can't fit any smaller wheels due to the size of the front brakes, but I respect what you're saying.

I wouldn't fancy trying to daily a Delta Integrale, though.

27

Paddy,

You know I'm a VW guy for life! This R is very nicely setup. Subtle but powerful. I like it! I sent a letter to VW USA 2 years ago and told them one of the "worst" ideas they had was getting rid of the 2-door Golfs. I just do NOT like these 4-door Golfs now. Doesn't matter how much you tune or slam them, 4 doors to me...I just can't get with them. Glad I have my MKIII Jetta! I would not buy a 4-door Golf. Period. The original Hot Hatch was 2 doors. Not 4. LIke the wheels, brakes on this one. And it's a 6-speed. Nice! And the 500HP ain't bad either!

28

I wouldn't really say they are few and far between, at least here in the states. I've seen more GTIs the Rs, but they around, and the age range of buyers is all over, young and old. And that's because it really is a car that can do it all. For some people this is great, whereas for others it's a bit boring, it all depends what you're looking for in a car. Maybe its not a Lotus Elise, but driving something quickly is always a blast in my eyes.

29

because older cars are more interesting and we poor folk can actually afford them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Author30

At the rate older stuff is appreciating, that won't be for much longer. A new R is probably cheaper than TME Evo and you could probably buy two or three of them for the price of a 22B.

31

I had a R Estate for 2 years and absolutely loved it. probably the best all round car I ever had. only drove it back home to Ireland once and had a great few days around the Lakes in Killarney. Never really got the hate they seem to attract in the UK. almost like people would have more respect for them if there was something massively and annoyingly wrong with them. Also the car that completely converted to me being a 2 pedal man for my daily driven car, would never go back to three pedals for a daily now.

Author32

I enjoy a good manual as much as the next guy, but the modern DSG boxes are absolutely incredible for all round use. Especially when living in the city.

33

I drive mk7 golf R estate. Love the 'wolf in sheeps clothing'. I am 70 years old and still get a big kick out of seeing off younger drivers.

Author34

Fantastic. I'm currently looking to try and pick up an R estate at the minute, but they were never sold here. Challenging to say the least.

35

Btw that DSG gearbox is mental. Put car in race mode, wind down the window and listen to the sound as you overtake other cars.

36

Some people will say the GTI is enough
But I like the Golf R for being a breed of its own

37

It is "enough". It's a well balanced package of usable performance and daily usability. Now the R is much of the same, but it goes to 11.

38

While many people have mixed opinions about the new Golf Mk8, I'm actually pretty excited for what's to come for the new Golf R
It could be an even better car with more tuning potential than the predecessor

39

Three older women 50+ on my estate have R's and the two other golfs i notice are clubsports one driven by a old women the other by a old guy who had a golf rally few years ago , two of my mates have them also and try to explain why they are such good cars ,to anyone else its just a golf , cars like the Escort cosworth held alot more presence than a standard escort and then even over a saff just because they had big fat arches people knew and always looked up to them cars even if they didnt drive all that good compared to a delta or evo . Also you say these engine are good but i looked to put on in one of my cars but after speaking to a very respected tuner in the uk they told me that the 1.8 20v is alot better and stronger engine to build 500bhp+ into. The problem with vw is that they always hold back , they could go bat sh!t crazy and build a car that would go down in history but instead they always play it safe. They should have gave the r the 2.5 5 pot at the very least.

Author40

I think for a lot of people, the appeal is that they fly under the radar. I love the new Focus RS and CTR, but they're both so OTT that I don't think I could ever own one. Also, when you like driving fast on the street, stealth and discretion are key so that you don't stand out like a sore thumb.

I have no objections to an RS3 powered Golf R. Someone must have already swapped one in the aftermarket?

41

Nice car. If you set up a spec race seiries I bet they would build a Paddy McGath limited edition

42

So Sorry correction (McGrath)

Author43

At least you didn't call me 'Patty', then we would be having a serious falling out.

44

I'm gonna say it. The 3 door is the much better looking version of this and the GTI. Even if the 5 door is exactly the same size, the long doors just subtly hint at it's sporty nature, while the shorter (and more) doors give it a more pedestrian appearance. Much like the current MINI line up offering way too many doors on everything. It kills the fun vibe you get.

Author45

I'm a three-door guy as well, but I've come to like the five-door in the MK7 more and more (probably because that's how it was designed from the get go).

Also, I'm getting old and practicality is becoming more and more appealing.

46
vincent cascino

I love my mk7 R. A simple stage 1, and I've left many mouth's agape.

47

Long (I mean LONG) time reader, first time commenter.

Paddy thanks for the great article and props to Donal on a very stylish build.

I daily a stock standard Mk7.5 R Estate, have done for about 18 months. I’ve done everything from commuting, to mountain runs in it. I’ve also been lucky enough to run around the Nordschleife in RSR Garage’s Mk7.5 GTI (the RSR edition one), one of their milder Mk7 R’s in the wet and also a Megane RS 265 manual. So I feel like I have some decent perspective here.

I love my R and I hate it at the same time. I love it for how quick it is in a straight line. I love how comfortable it is to commute in. I love how well built everything is.

And yet I long for a manual GTI or Megane RS 275. The R just doesn’t have enough character for me to fully love it. The stock exhaust is too quiet, the “Sound Actor” thingy when you’re in "race mode" is stupid - both the idea of it and the sound it makes. When I've pushed hard up a mountain road it runs out of brakes fairly quick, it’s got great grip but it doesn’t involve the driver much at all.

In contrast, the FWD GTI or the Megane RS are full of feedback, involvement and character. They’re lighter, more nimble and all while being quick enough to have heaps of fun. Sure, they’re not going to beat an R (or many other things) off the lights but get me on a track, or mountain road and I guarantee I’m having more fun.

Why not tune your R like Donal has you ask? I could, but I’ve also paid a chunk for this car already. Tipping another $10-15k into it makes it a hefty overall cost and I’m into a different league comparison wise.

When I sell it, I’m sure I’ll look back and remember how fun launch mode is. But I’ll also remember how cold it left me any time I wanted to push it on a twisty road, so I can’t see myself missing it too much. Problem is, I don’t know what I’d go to next. Fun manuals are getting hard to come by these days. Maybe an M2 Comp manual would satisfy albeit at a heck of a premium over the R.

Author48

Depending on your comment settings, I've just replied to another user either above or below and touched on the same thing. Yes, the GTI & R are very neutral from factory but they're also very easy to bring to life in the manner you described, and without spending 000s of dollars either.

A resonator delete, rear ARB upgrade, more aggressive geometry and even a stage 1 tune turns these into completely different cars from stock.

49
Marius Engen Skinnes

If someone asks me which hot hatch to look at it would be the Toyota GR Yaris at the moment!

Author50

That's a cool looking car, excited to see them on the road.

51

Ehr? A Golf R is what it is, but compairing it rally spec stuff: Not really. No matter how much people hype these things a haldex system is only a temporary LSD which will gradually become open in the first 50.000Km's or less.

As for why we don't see them on the road anymore: Blame the FIA: drivetrain isn't part of the homologation process. Neither is the engine, or the suspension. If they would alter those rules, in order for cars to be elegible, manufacturers would have to make them for consumers.

Then Again: Buying isn't an option, but you could always make them. And if you can't make them, you aren't allowed to drive them. Thats the real world....

52
Max @ghettoporsche

I totally understand from a technical point of view why these are great cars.
Performance wise it is the same thing. Look at Moog's (MCM) Golf R that has supercar acceleration levels with bolt ons.

But emotionally speaking: they are just so boring.
You see normal Golfs everywhere and R and GTIs are not that much outstanding in the crowd.

If you had an Evo or Impreza STI back in the day, they couldn't be mistaken for your bread and butter Impreza or Lancer.

Now you just check the "R-Line" box and your 1.4 TSI looks almost as a real R.

Also , driving a modern performance car is just not as rewarding as it used to be.

I have not driven a MK7 R but a Peugeot 308 GTi, which is also ridiculously fast if you look at the numbers on paper and even if you drive it on the street.
But I feel no connection to it.

Call me stupid but flooring it in my 200 hp (being optimistic here) S13 POS makes me smile every time but in a modern fast car I feel like I'm playing Gran Turismo in real live...
makes the noises, feels fast but just doesn't feel right.

Don't get me wrong, they are incredible machines but it is just too plain boring in my opinion.

Author53

I hear you, and I don't necessarily disagree with you either. All of the performance Golfs are quite sedate from factory, but that's kind of the point as they're intended to appeal to the mass market. It's not difficult at all to liven these things up to levels that most don't really believe they are capable of.

Even slightly more aggressive geometry makes a massive difference in the driving experience.

54

If there's one thing I'm sad about, it's the lack of homologation these days. Yeaaaaaahhh it's expensive for the manufacturers but.... it's quite literally what makes their brands enticing. At no point will I say, wow honda insight, that can do 60+mpg holyyy shiiiit I NEED one much like I would with a 22b or m3 evo etc.

55

I'm so lost in little springs at the moment, What would it be like to start with a shell and be let loose in VAG parts bins to build an R.

56

But it has a crappy HALDEX AWD system. Get on a track and compare it a car with torque vectoring. Try to get any power oversteer. The HALDEX system really puts me off buying a euro.

Author57

I wouldn't consider Haldex as 'crappy'. Yeah, they're FWD biased but they're still effective on track providing you know how to drive one. Why would you want to power oversteer one?

58

The Golf usually doesn't do it for me. This one amazing. But I'm just commenting for the pictures. Damn Paddy!

Author59

Thank you!

60
realerthanrealdealhollyfield

because the US is your taget demographic and they dont exist beyond the dousche bombers who play mario kart in traffic, wear 14k gold chains and listen to experimental dubstep while preaching about the black experience from the porch of there parents 7 figure home in newport beach while smoking a bag of something that was claimed to be weed.

61

VW = Lame. It may be fast but its soulless, dull, ugly and farts when it changes gear.

62
Mukesh Thulsie

Great car, I agree. In South Africa the GTi, GOlf R and Audi S3 seem to be the go to cars for drag racing and track days. There are a lot of performance shops here that also cater for those cars. For me, the issue with the Golf R has always been price. The price difference between the Golf R and the GTi is quite steep. I think the GTi is the perfect balance between price, performance and everyday usability.

63

Why don't we talk about them? To my knowledge, they only come in 5 door in the US. They're $50k+ USD, and I'm sorry, but at that price, and due to the extra doors, a Mustang or Corvette is a better purchase. And literally no where is pistons, connecting rods, and crank considered "just bolt ons" Those alone push you into the $75k range. Now you're in M3 or maybe a couple year old GTR territory. Or Z06. That's why we don't talk about them.

64

Not sure what part of the states you are in, but they're ~40k cars. Also, that's stock block. Pistons/rods/crank weren't touched. You should probably read the article and practice due diligence before sounding so ignorant.

65

Fair enough. I did read that wrong. But, the dealers here do add a premium on cars over sticker price for anything they deem "special". They even add 8-10k over sticker for the Veloster N. And at 45-50k, I still say there are plenty of more worthy options.

66

Dang, really? What part of the US if you don't mind me asking? It's been pretty tame in the SW. But yeah, I do agree.. at 40k, better options.

67

Atlanta, but I think it happens to some extent in most of the US....just maybe not on all the same cars. Civic R, C8, Supra, etc. There are plenty of dealers that do this as well. I don't want to seem like every single dealer does this, but you really have to pay attention. I specifically mentioned the Veloster N, because I thought I really wanted one when they first came out. The three nearest dealers to me all were asking 6-10k over sticker for the performance pack option cars.

68

That should read "that don't do this"

69

ballpark estimate price of mods please?

70
Reality Randall

Because they’re shit boxes compared to Evos. You know I never really realized you were a VW guy now a lot of your articles make sense. Lol

Author71

That's such a lazy and ignorant response, I don't even know where to start XD

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