It’s safe to say that the DeltaWing’s first year of competition hasn’t quite been smooth sailing. After being crashed out in the 24 Hours of Le Mans in June, the car was involved in another incident this week during testing at Road Atlanta. As you can see in the video clip, the DeltaWing makes contact with a slower Porsche GTC car, then gets turned on its side and slides down the track in a rather awkward and scary fashion. Fortunately its driver Gunnar Jeannette was not seriously hurt, but the crash has generated lots of discussion about the DeltaWing’s safety.
Some say the DeltaWing’s unique shape makes it very hard to spot for other drivers, but there’s even more concern about how that narrow shape reacts to contact with other cars. The crash in the video doesn’t quite look like your typical Sports Car incident. On the other hand, many have come to the DeltaWing’s defense, saying the car is no different than other prototype racers and stressing the importance of driver awareness.
For this week’s poll and discussion, we are asking for your thoughts on the matter. Is the DeltaWing too dangerous to race?
-Mike
[polldaddy poll="6621926"]
OFFICIAL SPEEDHUNTERS SUPPLIERS
Saw this vid a day or two ago. Swear the Porsche just turns in really sharply on him.
After the contact (which is not that hard) the car flipped instantly! lts amazing how close to the ground is his head! l think the car's shape has a lot to do with the fact that: 1) It's heavily unstable after a contact and 2) Other drivers may struggle to see it....But that's my opinion
seems like it just failed to register to the guy in the Porsche that the deltawing gets a lot closer to your car as from front to rear. oh, and if we could see how many votes have been cast we could accurately gauge our ire regarding peoples taste in oddball race cars.
No. Simple as that really, there plenty of prototypes out there that would've turned over in that impact. Too many people are quick to be critical of the delta wing just because its doing things differently. The main thing is the driver never looked like he was in danger and seemed to survive the accident suitably well to wave his hands at the offending Porsche! The only thing I don't like is how much his helmet made contact with the sides of the cockpit, maybe that's something they could improve on?
The shape of the car does make it more difficult for other drivers to gauge the space between the cars, but at the same time, Nissan could do a better job with making the car more visible by giving it a bright color than matte black and by perhaps always running with the lights on. As for the car rolling like that rather than just sliding (the Reliant Robin effect if you will), I totally agree that it's due to the cars shape. However, it should be noted that this is no more worse than if these cars were open-wheel vehicles which are known to launch in the air from such incidents. As long as the car remains stable by itself during racing conditions, which it appears to do very well, then I see no reason for there to be drastic changes made to the car for "the sake of safety".
If it is unsafe for the body it is racing in now, have the car just run Time Attacks. Most cars in those series are death traps anyways. Look at the roll cage in the Cyber EVO for example.
Also, I am not a fan at all of the Delta Wing but as someone who tracks on average one weekend a month, if I were to make a judgement, that Porsche was clearly at fault.
It just needs the Nissan factory option skid pad for the driver's forehead.
Seems like a freak incident to me. I can remember McNish escaping a scary crash at Monza in 2008. Watch this video, looks like he locked up? Racing is dangerous. Period.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_YtzTyRn-A
This was an absolute accident people. You look at the Porsche and you see that it was a correction because the Porsches left wheels went off which caused loss in traction. You can clearly see that it was a driver correction. It's just the delta wing was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
No one is at fault. Just a simple racing accident.
I would simply say that having these slower cars on the track is the danger, not the deltawing itself.
I would simply say that having these slower cars on the track is the danger, not the deltawing itself.
Not too dangerous, but maybe the wrong shape. Remember the crash at Le Mans, it got wedged into the wall and couldn't get out.
Rollbar did its job as well as the other safety equipment. I would say it was too dangerous if he was injured badly but look, he's well enough that he gestures at the driver of the Porsche. Not something an injured man would do, more something of a man who felt robbed of his proper track time.
I have a feeling it's just like speed racer... They don't want something like the DeltaWing to succeed and win, It would change everything. People just keep crashing into it. Too often than one may like.
isn't the delta wing essentially a 3 wheeler? just like reliance robin...
Looking the deltawing makes me wish someone would field a reverse trike (2 wheels front, 1 wheel out back) with the same level of support. Something like that Peugeot 20cup concept. It should have similar advantages like the deltawing (aerodynamic shape (tadpole), better fuel economy, and a smaller, more compact engine). I love engineering concepts like these. They change the way we view things and when asked why we do it, its because we can or in layman's terms : because racecar.
Besides the wrong move the Porsche made, the biggest thing would be to have cars of similar speed and weight out on the track at the same time. Racing is racing, and part of having a different design is to be innovative in a sport that has just went the direction of streamlining the common layout in recent years.
I think the question can be considered offensive to the designers of the car. Honestly, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. At Le Mans, it was able to take the start and, if I'm not mistaken, a yellow flag restart. And people saw it on their mirrors. And it didn't crash until Kazuki Nakajima forgot he had mirrors and went over agressive on a restart and took the Deltawing out.
Here, the situation is the same. It's the fault of the other dumb driver who lost control of his car and swerved out of his racing line taking out the Deltawing. Adding insult to injury, he flipped the bird at Gunette.The Deltawing is safe, or else the A.C.O wouldn't have appoved it. How do you explain then that the Delta Wing wasn't knocked off at Le Mans before Nakajima went berserk at that restart?
stupid question. it was built to race, not win a destruction derby.
I honestly dont know where the porsche could have gone.... he was on the edge of the track and about to turn into the corner. That was an extremely risky pass to make, and the delta wing timed it wrong. The only way that pass could have worked is if the deltawing had A. given the porsche more space or B. turned in before the porsche. It's like the delta wing driver thought the porsche wouldn't turn into the next corner....
@AlejandroRamirez What matters more, the fact that the designers might take offense to someone mocking the incredible Deltawing, or the life of the driver and those around him when racing? Sure accidents happen all the time, but I would reconsider letting that car-that-could-flip-over-with-just-a-tap race, regardless if it was approved the first time. Just because it was approved, does not mean it is completely safe.
I don't know what footage you guys are watching but the delta wing was not at fault in anyway . The porsche hit the delta wing as it looks like the Porsche loss the rear end a bit which lend it to hitting the delta wing . The two race cars had more than enough room . I'm amazing by Mike Garret doesn't see this clearly nor does some others . Let me say this , people don't like what they can't understand nor do some like change in the race car relm in some new designs . Some need to watch again with open eyes in what the Porsche is doing and the lines that were taken by both cars .
@AlexLobanov I have to agree that it did seem a bit ambitious especially for it being a practice session. The thing that bothers me about the Delta is how close the drivers head was to hitting the ground. I feel they need to really look at that and do something about the roll hoop to give the driver some added safety. Cool car and glad it works but not my cup of tea nor would I want to see a field of them.
porsche driver has rocks in his head
I think that the next iteration of the DeltaWing will probably end up being a closed cockpit design much as the Audi Le Mans team switched too. Unfortunately I also believe that sooner or later most open cockpit cars will become a thing of the past, sans F1 possibly.
First of all, no. It has 4 wheels. Second of all RELIANT Robin.
First of all, no. It has 4 wheels. Second of all RELIANT Robin.
I don't know but it seems like a car that has the "normal" wide front end wouldn't have rolled in that accident? Thats what it think.
I*
Contact happens in racing. There's no arguing that. The unfortunate thing is that the deltawing seems like it can't handle it. Regardless of who is at fault, if it were a car with a wider stance I think it would have stood a much better chance of not rolling. The scariest part is how much the driver's head gets thrown around and jerked intensely, only inches from the ground. The slow motion replay really really had me scared for the driver. I think if the deltawing is to continue competing it may need a few safety revisions...
Personally, I wouldn't be too keen to race the nissan in traffic. Not to mention the nissan is developing a history of race-ending accidents already. If the car can't finish races because it's too vulnerable to contact then I would say its not the greatest design for a race car. Accidents happen and there's a lot of cars out there (the porsche for example) that can take a hit and keep going.
There's a lot to be said, very interesting points from a lot of folks. I'd say the Porsche did have the racing line, but over corrected from riding the edge of the track, and the Deltawing driver could have negotiated that better as well. Some space from the DW, like mentioned earlier, probably would've helped. There was room and the DW is fast enough to pull through the inside. Also, the design does have it's inherent danger. The video shows he's pretty exposed and the crash proves the potential for serious injury.
This thing is a menace...all about new design and stretching the envelope, but enough's enough. Not to mention anyone else think it looks like "The Ambiguously Gay Duo's" ride? http://www.ridelust.com/wp-content/uploads/ambig_gay_penis_mobile.jpg
It's not that it's dangerous, it's that it's just something new and no one is used to it yet. I for one still have absolutely no clue how the front keeps traction in turns. NOW, if it wasn't shaped like a wedge, it wouldn't have gotten flipped over as easy. . . maybe it should be in it's own class or own series for that matter. . . kinda like a U.S. knock off of F1, but it'd be N1 (Nissan) lol.
I am really a fan of the Deltawing because I love unconventional. The time is still young for this magnificent car.. there will still be more improvements. That's why it is good to test the car to see what else can be done. All I could think of is for the DW Team to add another wing (It could be a solid wing or much like an aero bar design) that will take the missing space on both sides from the front to the middle part of the car. It will serves also as a bumper to protect the car.
Go Deltawing Team, you worked hard for it.... and you have supporters around the world
97% of those commenting on how dangerous it is still drive their mom's camry while living under her roof. It is hard to take a track related opinion from those who consider decreasing radius off ramps as 'challenges'
They need to add some kind of fluorescent graphics to certain areas of the car, if anything, so the other dipshits on track can see it.
http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh592/Commanch3/original.jpg
it looks like it needs a cage to protect the driver's heaf
It looks like it needs a roll cage to protect the driver's head
How could you say that it was the deltawing fault you can clearly see it that it was the Porsche fault
Due to the unique layout of the DeltaWing, it is susceptible to this sort of behavior as the narrower front end tucks in and allows it to roll in a different manner from conventional cars; witness the behavior of the infamous Reliant Robin. Let's not forget, however, that conventionally configured cars (meaning four wheels in a roughly rectangular configuration) can still roll over as well, and can even blow over, as evidenced by the CLR blow overs in the 1999 Le Mans 24 Hours. However, this seems to be something the DeltaWing would be more or less immune to, as the narrow front would provide a relatively low lifting force compared to the wider rear, essentially causing it to act something like a dart and self stabilizing.
With regards to the unique situation of DeltaWing, it would seem that a pair of flaps towards the rear set at an angle such that the trailing flap opens when the car exceeds a set yaw angle, say 5 degrees, increasing the air pressure over that side of the car would go a long way to alleviating this problem. NASCAR's Sprint Cup (then the Winston Cup) started using a similar system in the mid '90's because of high speed blow overs they were seeing at that time.
didn't see ANYTHING that would lead one to question the safety or the theory behind the Delta Wing's design. what i did see was a Porsche swerve over and hit the Delta Wing and make it flip. unfortunately, sometimes that's racing.
Cause it has effectively three points of contact it's always going to act a little differently in an accident. Just like the Bluebird speed record boat that flipped. It's not more or less dangerous than a conventional four point chassis, it just needs some unique solutions, people can't treat it like every other car. But yeah, that particular accident is all on the Porsche, even though you can see the different ways the two cars reacted.
@dadecode The poll is titled "IS THE DELTAWING TOO DANGEROUS?" That seems like a very clear question regarding the safety of the car, and that is what I at least was replying to.
@JoshuaWhitcombe yes, i agree. There needs to be some type of aerodynamic support to protect the driver all around. No question about it.
That video was pretty scary. I was worried that the driver's neck would snap! good thing nothing horrible happened.
The car is NOT dangerous to race around the track. other cars keep hitting it!!! My definition of a dangerous car on a track is a car that always loses control somehow, by itself (not by getting hit by other cars). ex: if a car makes a hard turn and it flips, it is dangerous. if it loses control on acceleration, it is dangerous. If it is not stable at high speeds, it is dangerous. nuf said.
IMO, no. I can't see how this is dangerous due to the Deltawing. The driver was ok even after a roll over. The Deltawing wasn't at fault either. He was off the racing line passing a slower catagorie car by going around it, which he is supposed to do. The Porsche moved right, either by driver error or the rear end slipping out, it's hard to tell 100%. Eitherway the Deltawing was not at fault and that kind of thing could have happened to any light car hit in such a way.
Nonsquare race cars are inherently dangerous.
It seems as though the other cars just can't see it. From the various views in the videos it is quite low compared to a 'regular' race car. Is it dangerous though? No. I don't think so. Is a Caterham dangerous on the roads because it is too low for road cars to see when it is just a few feet behind you? No, of course not. The issue might also have to do with blind spots. If the Deltawing is that close to the Porsche then it is highly likely that the driver of the Porsche didn't/couldn't see it, whether it because the Deltawing is too low to see or because of a blind spot. But do we expect them to do an over-the-shoulder-check every time they make a cornering manoeuvre? Of course not. Also, not sure if anyone has noticed, but is the Porsche driver making a move to head into the pits when the two collided?
Wow. He blatantly drives into the Deltawing and then has the brass to flip the Deltawing driver off as if it was his fault? The driver of the Porsche deserves a suspension for that display. Never mind that it looked like a particularly nasty crash in which the Deltawing driver could have been badly hurt. You're a huge dick, Porsche guy.
The only thing that I would question is the colour of the car. It is a little on the dark side. A brighter colour may let the driver in front of you see you sooner in their mirrors. I don't think the car is any more dangerous than any other car in that race.
i would say it needs a roof for flipping circumstances
@wesbo +1. Why is it all-black? Paint it bright colors and I bet it won't be a problem.
@AlexLobanov I actually disagree...a bit. The DW drove a near perfect attack line he initialized already in the s-bend. Well driven. The Porsche definately turned right (and for me he should have either let the DW pass via breaking or not turning in any further) and obviously wasn't aware of the DW's rear which unfortunately is wider than the rest of the car. The DW could have left more space. That's where i agree with you and therefore it's also his fault 'cause he should know the cars 'anatomy' and should have left more space between them.Still the DW is seriously quick from what you could see in the video. Easily overtaking the LMP.
@AlexLobanov Disagree... the crest is not the turn in point for the car anyway. This is one hundred percent the fault of the green Porsche driver.
No matter who is to blame for this incident, the deltawing concept is just plain silly - it's basically a very low Reliant Robin. Just instead of one front wheel, they got two very close together. It's just more easy to flip than a car with a standard wheel layout
@DavidLaurence @dadecode but you never answered the question, instead you took the route of many auto makers and instead of answering the question you've found items to add that may not have saved the car in this situation but does however further complicate the design, raises budgets, and adds very little weight but still adds weight. Look at the way a reliant robin and the deltawing takes a turn. They are very different operations. The cars can't be compared. You add flaps for side/yaw angle movement and your going to create understeer in the turns.
@ylee @JoshuaWhitcombe you didn't notice how the rear view mirror didn't crush? how tall that back to the delta wing is. The drivers head was ok, because the car was well engineered to assure it would be ok. You can only engineer for so much granted before you start to go overkill but I like the design.
The car is not too unsafe, that video alone proves how safe it really is. At this point perhaps it should be painted neon orange or something.
@Donld @AlejandroRamirez watch more racing, your going to be surprised how many cars flip over with just a tap. A hard one at that due to the Porsche following through with it even after the point you would consider it obvious that your hitting a car like that. I don't see where in this video your finding how unsafe the deltawing appears to be??
@ylee @JoshuaWhitcombe The drivers head was protected mainly by that rear feature right behind the drivers head. That feature is there for safety, and shaped for aerodynamics. Best of both worlds. Don't take my word for it. Take the images in the video where you see a driver who was not worried about losing his head or grabbing it afterwards, but instead raising his hands to the driver who took him off course. I should probably clarify more but I'll just leave it at that. Very strong car.
I find it cute that some believe this crash is due in part to the delta wing in any possible way. If you've ever been to Road Atlanta or ever driven it you'd know that there's no apex there and that no one starts moving over at the top of the hill for the next right-hander unless they've lost control of their vehicle (like the Porsche did). That's actually a really good place to pass, hence why the delta wing was doing so at that location.
Furthermore, racing is inherently dangerous, especially in any open-air cockpit design. Personally I want to see all open-cockpit designs relegated to the dustbin of history. Safety should always come first, no one's life is worth dying for entertainment. I used to believe that open-cockpits were fine, but all it took to convince me otherwise happened in Las Vegas almost exactly one year ago. Dan Wheldon didn't have to die. Indy cars, Formula cars, Prototypes, they can all be just as fast, cool and entertaining with a closed cockpit.
And no, the Delta Wing isn't too dangerous. Though I find it amusing that so many people are threatened by it's design. Any time something new, groundbreaking and different is birthed into a stagnant world like that of racing, there are those that will bury their head in the sand and cry foul, and others that will embrace it. I choose the latter.
that was clearly the Porsche drivers fault. had nothing to do with the delta wings design.
It's about as unsafe as any open cockpit car.
@BenjaminSaucier @AlejandroRamirez Thats true. Accidents happen all the time with just a tap at the fender. Now I see it. If the Deltawing didnt flip over so dramatically, or even at all, this question of this deltawing being dangerous would not have been prevalent, or at least not to the extent where people are considering this car too dangerous. My guess is that it would have been just another racing accident had it not flipped so violently. Thanks Ben.
The Atalanta crash clearly shows the 911 driver at fault. He went wide put 2 wheels into the grass and over corrected outside of his normal line. The Delta wing clearly had the ability and speed to pass on the inside there and the 911 made the mistake, there is no issue about visibility of the delta wing in this case. The 911 was clearly at fault.The Le Mans crash was a different story, the LMP cars have bad vis to begin with and the black paint plus odd proportions obviously contributed to that crash.I think they should remove the black paint to something brighter, and there will be few issues. In a mixed class race other drivers will be aware of passing traffic more and should notice the DW comming up.
@Donld @AlejandroRamirez http://youtu.be/lNkySVNNpog http://youtu.be/3Xj_bjprNDs have you ever watched arab drift videos? Even a heavy camry can be put on it's side with the force in the right area. Conventionally designed vehicles racing and non racing have flipped for a lot more and a lot less then this.
Poll, is the Porsche driver a twat?
Goddamn, will you give the people a friggin' chance to iron the kinks out of their car before you go asking everyone if it's "too dangerous"? As far as I know, this car hasn't been in an actual race yet (exhibition class at LeMans doesn't really count) and already you are judging...
As a race car it's clearly fast. on the track with other cars it's not so safe, being hit on the rear quarter or third it has a stability issue at speed. When one wheel lost traction it look to me it flipped to easily compared to other race car traps I've seen (motor bike sidecar racing have a counter weight). I know i'd rather be in the Porsche. But still it agood car i hope it has a future.
As a race car it's clearly fast. on the track with other cars it's not so safe, being hit on the rear quarter or third it has a stability issue at speed. When one wheel lost traction it look to me it flipped to easily compared to other race car traps I've seen (motor bike sidecar racing have a counter weight). I know i'd rather be in the Porsche. But still it agood car i hope it has a future.
i think that the cars shel and structure is fin but i think that the pilot should be sitting in the middel because i thought or sure he was going to have his neck broke, in the event that the car goes upsidedown there nedes to be more clearence for the drivers head so that it doesnt make contact iith the ground.
i think that the cars shel and structure is fin but i think that the pilot should be sitting in the middel because i thought or sure he was going to have his neck broke, in the event that the car goes upsidedown there nedes to be more clearence for the drivers head so that it doesnt make contact iith the ground.
im trying to respond in a way thats not rude, i would like the car to be compedable but the small front can can make it slightly dangerous and i just think that the driver should be centered. but given you're statement that it hasnt even been in a race yet and it alread crashed twice makes me question it myself
im trying to respond in a way thats not rude, i would like the car to be compedable but the small front can can make it slightly dangerous and i just think that the driver should be centered. but given you're statement that it hasnt even been in a race yet and it alread crashed twice makes me question it myself
I can understand the fact that it's hard to spot due to the odd shape. But like everyone else has been stating the 911 is clearly at fault by not keeeping his line and clearly going off track. It's a prototype car. It shouldn't be considered to dangerous till it's in its final and complete form. I'm glad that Nissan is staying strong with this new program.
I can understand the fact that it's hard to spot due to the odd shape. But like everyone else has been stating the 911 is clearly at fault by not keeeping his line and clearly going off track. It's a prototype car. It shouldn't be considered to dangerous till it's in its final and complete form. I'm glad that Nissan is staying strong with this new program.
doesn't appear to be dangerous, given the types of crashes it has been involved in, make it appear hard to see for other drivers. In each previous instance it looks like the Delta Wing was ran into, like they opposing driver didn't see it there. Blind spot maybe? Delta Wing too low? Put a train horn on that sumbtch
doesn't appear to be dangerous, given the types of crashes it has been involved in, make it appear hard to see for other drivers. In each previous instance it looks like the Delta Wing was ran into, like they opposing driver didn't see it there. Blind spot maybe? Delta Wing too low? Put a train horn on that sumbtch
yea, um, I'm going to work on my typing in the future - LoL- that was terrible
yea, um, I'm going to work on my typing in the future - LoL- that was terrible
@Donld @AlejandroRamirez cars crash for a lot more and less. Watch more racing and you'll begin to notice ...http://youtu.be/3Xj_bjprNDs http://youtu.be/lNkySVNNpog http://youtu.be/2e-Zad4mFb0 The deltawings design did not cause the flip as much as the right force applied in the right place at the right speed.
@Donld @AlejandroRamirez cars crash for a lot more and less. Watch more racing and you'll begin to notice ...http://youtu.be/3Xj_bjprNDs http://youtu.be/lNkySVNNpog http://youtu.be/2e-Zad4mFb0 The deltawings design did not cause the flip as much as the right force applied in the right place at the right speed.
The DeltaWing didn't "make contact" it was slammed into by the Porsche, get it right...
The DeltaWing didn't "make contact" it was slammed into by the Porsche, get it right...
@pwr2lbs YES: 100%
@pwr2lbs YES: 100%
@pwr2lbs NO: 0%
@pwr2lbs NO: 0%
I could say that the Delta Wing may not be reliable, but it is certainly RELIANT!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQh56geU0X8
@BenjaminSaucier Then let me answer the question directly; no, I do not think the DeltaWing is inherently more dangerous than conventional prototypes, it just has a different set of concerns. Personally, I like the DeltaWing, and I want to see it be successful, we need more variety and innovation in racing. The suggestion I presented was simply an idea to help ensure it is successful. And while no, it is not guaranteed that my idea would work, I think it would at least make such an accident less likely, and thus make this design safer for wheel to wheel racing.
@Yossarian Says the guy with no engineering degree.
@JamesChaulk His head didn't touch the ground, he confirmed this in an interview after. Came pretty damn close though.
@pwr2lbs No, seeing as he didn't do it on purpose, he just overcorrected.
i feel like its safe, just not visible enough to be seen easily. and because of its 3 wheeled design, any contact it makes with anything results in an accident. I think they should paint it red for better visibility and give it some side skirts or something so that it cant crash/roll over so easily.
@ChrisScherzer IT HAS FOUR WHEELS
Now, seriously: wouldnt that be intersting if there were a race of delta-wings _only_ or something alike? I dont like the idea of wasting money (by testin prototype crashes against each other like on a child's play), but, with a category of its own accidents could happen and studying the car against a dangerous environment compose of its own equals perhaps could be able to help develop new security systems. On another point, a crash between two delta-wings would develop on a complete diffrent way too. Engineers, your opinion on that?
I also believe in the visibility issue.
The Delta Wing is just fine, it has had awful luck with collisions at no fault of it's driver. He hasn't made errors, the other drivers show complete disregard for him and just bash him. I'm sure it's not on purpose, but regardless the other drivers run the delta wing over!
Troppo bassa per essere vvista dagli specchietti di un'auto normale!!!
Not dangerous just stupid. I know how hard it is to give up on a project after you have put so much blood sweat and tears into it but this just falls into the "If it ain't broke don't fix it" category. There is a reason that the other cars don't look like fighter jets on wheels however I do believe that if they were to widen out the front and add a front wing like a modern F1 car no one would catch them. And hopefully it would make it look less hideous.
It doesn't matter whose fault it was. What matters is if any other legal chassis would have ended up sliding down the track on its roof from an identical, comparatively small contact with another vehicle.
Ask the guy with road rash on the top of his helmet if he thinks it's a safe car. Then look at how difficult it will become for Nissan to find drivers for this chassis in the coming years. Any sane driver is going to ask for a lot more money to risk their life in that car.
Pfft - It's the other drivers on track, not the car. This car will come into its own when it gets its own race series and class. I can't wait to see what it's truly capable of.
@Will Buzznich Says the guy who was NOT pinned beneath a Deltawing as it slid upside down across the pavement.
It appeared to tip over way too easy. I've seen cars get together like that many times. The front end doesn't normally tip that easy.The Delta is about as safe as a 3-wheeler ATV.
The car's design is fine. The vehicle is safe, the driver wasn't injured! Everything is fine.
@Will Buzznich So what? It has happened to almost all race-car drivers that have driven an open top car. It's not a problem exclusive to the DeltaWing and it's actually a proof of the strong design of the car. If it wasn't for that AMR-One tub they're using and the overall execution of the car, Gunnar Jeanette would be dead, but he isn't, in fact, he's perfectly fine.Saying the DW is silly is plain stupidity. It's like someone who back in the day said the Lotus 7 was silly. And saying it's unsafe it's disregarding all the safety tests that this cars have to endure.
Looked to me less like it 'tipped over' and more like it was 'thrown over' by the force of the impact and possibly by the rear tyre contact propelling the Deltawing upward. It's only 575kg with fuel and driver so it makes sense that it could be easily 'thrown.' The drivers head did look to be in a rather precarious situation and I would feel unsafe being upside in the Deltawing but I assume that it has to comply with the same roll-over safety requirements as the LMP cars.
No prototype lmp1 or lmp2 car will ever survive contact with a gt car, that is just a fact of multiclass racing..
Seems the driver was perfectly fine. So I would say it isn't dangerous, but it is prone to being flipped over due to its exaggerated triangular shape. The other issue is its low height compared to other vehicles making it hard to see. Make a class so it's only ever on the track with other cars similar to it and that particular visibility issue is gone thus reducing the chances of the flipping issue happening. It all ties together.
It finished the race 5th overall, with some red accents to make it more visible.
http://www.gtplanet.net/ordonez-helps-deltawing-to-5th-place-finish-at-petit-le-mans/
This survey is absolutely ridiculous. Go back to covering drifting - at least you can pretend to be experts at that and no one will notice. The Deltawing clearly isn't dangerous, as Gunnar was not even scratched. Perhaps we should ask about speed differentials in sportscar racing, or the wisdom of hosting a ten hour multi class race at Road Atlanta. We shouldn't be scaremongering about what is a very interesting and fairly noble project.
@jakeyorath I'll take 80:20. was the split I felt talking to fans in terms of general support. the 80 are so passionate and convinced.
Sir, it's very clear you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Gunnar Jeanette was fine and had no 'road rash' on his helmet. Why not ask him if he'd drive it again?
@jakeyorath and I like seeing fans opinions in such an instant and obvious way. On and off line debate has really helped with future plans
@jakeyorath @IamDarrenCox Currently 77% say no
@Nicholas Rodriguez The car uses half the fuel, less than half the amount of rubber from the tyres and laps at mid LMP2 pace. That's with the engine heavily restricted. This car could very, very easily win Le Mans. This is lightyears ahead of every other car in motorsport right now, especially with its aerodynamics.
@Nicholas Rodriguez The car uses half the fuel, less than half the amount of rubber from the tyres and laps at mid LMP2 pace. That's with the engine heavily restricted. This car could very, very easily win Le Mans. This is lightyears ahead of every other car in motorsport right now, especially with its aerodynamics.
@Nicholas Rodriguez The car uses half the fuel, less than half the amount of rubber from the tyres and laps at mid LMP2 pace. That's with the engine heavily restricted. This car could very, very easily win Le Mans. This is lightyears ahead of every other car in motorsport right now, especially with its aerodynamics.
@Rccq Defence rests. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW3NDGk6YQE
@Rccq Defence rests. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW3NDGk6YQE
@Rccq Defence rests. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW3NDGk6YQE
@IamDarrenCox @jakeyorath Good comments Jake. Interesting that some people still think it's a 3-wheeler. #reliantrobinjokesdontwork
@IamDarrenCox @jakeyorath Good comments Jake. Interesting that some people still think it's a 3-wheeler. #reliantrobinjokesdontwork
@IamDarrenCox @jakeyorath Good comments Jake. Interesting that some people still think it's a 3-wheeler. #reliantrobinjokesdontwork
@lindsaymorle @jakeyorath in most cases 20% don't like you / something - never will 20% do - always will. It's the 60 you need to convince
@lindsaymorle @jakeyorath in most cases 20% don't like you / something - never will 20% do - always will. It's the 60 you need to convince
@lindsaymorle @jakeyorath in most cases 20% don't like you / something - never will 20% do - always will. It's the 60 you need to convince
@jakeyorath That article and some of the comments below make me sad - just sensationalism and misinformed rubbish.
@jakeyorath That article and some of the comments below make me sad - just sensationalism and misinformed rubbish.
@jakeyorath That article and some of the comments below make me sad - just sensationalism and misinformed rubbish.
@lindsaymorle @jakeyorath just spotted the comments. Great debate that is self regulating AND then JO steps in with real facts boom. Thanks
@lindsaymorle @jakeyorath just spotted the comments. Great debate that is self regulating AND then JO steps in with real facts boom. Thanks
@lindsaymorle @jakeyorath just spotted the comments. Great debate that is self regulating AND then JO steps in with real facts boom. Thanks
@SPEEDHUNTERS You should be promoting such a concept which is cutting edge & open when most racing series are becoming increasingly 'spec'!
@SPEEDHUNTERS You should be promoting such a concept which is cutting edge & open when most racing series are becoming increasingly 'spec'!
@SPEEDHUNTERS You should be promoting such a concept which is cutting edge & open when most racing series are becoming increasingly 'spec'!
@IamDarrenCox @lindsaymorle @jakeyorath So many misinformed armchair 'experts' pontificating on that article.
@IamDarrenCox @lindsaymorle @jakeyorath So many misinformed armchair 'experts' pontificating on that article.
@IamDarrenCox @lindsaymorle @jakeyorath So many misinformed armchair 'experts' pontificating on that article.
@MikeMehnert Apparently you've never watched a spec Miata race....
@MikeMehnert Apparently you've never watched a spec Miata race....
@MikeMehnert Apparently you've never watched a spec Miata race....
@JakeYorath Yes I get that thank you for repeating what you heard on ABC yesterday and I even said in my previous comment that it was quick but the stability of the front end is something they are going to have to work on. And sometimes things that look good on paper don't always work in real life. There is a reason Indycar laughed them out of the building...
@JakeYorath Yes I get that thank you for repeating what you heard on ABC yesterday and I even said in my previous comment that it was quick but the stability of the front end is something they are going to have to work on. And sometimes things that look good on paper don't always work in real life. There is a reason Indycar laughed them out of the building...
@JakeYorath Yes I get that thank you for repeating what you heard on ABC yesterday and I even said in my previous comment that it was quick but the stability of the front end is something they are going to have to work on. And sometimes things that look good on paper don't always work in real life. There is a reason Indycar laughed them out of the building...
What everyone is seeing is what you see on the streets of America on the daily. Big "heavy" cars smashing the little one... had the deltawing weighed 1000lbs more it would have likely been a much smaller incident resulting in a 180* spin and some body damage. at LeMans you saw the larger car shove the lighter one off the track. I dont think it has anything to do with its shape, its the fact that its a short car that is blacked out and will appear on your rear bumper out of seemingly nowhere coupled with it not weighing anything is the "problem". The drivers just need to be more aware of their surroundings. I think some of them need to do some open wheel racing and less at the local amusement parks gokarts.
What everyone is seeing is what you see on the streets of America on the daily. Big "heavy" cars smashing the little one... had the deltawing weighed 1000lbs more it would have likely been a much smaller incident resulting in a 180* spin and some body damage. at LeMans you saw the larger car shove the lighter one off the track. I dont think it has anything to do with its shape, its the fact that its a short car that is blacked out and will appear on your rear bumper out of seemingly nowhere coupled with it not weighing anything is the "problem". The drivers just need to be more aware of their surroundings. I think some of them need to do some open wheel racing and less at the local amusement parks gokarts.
What everyone is seeing is what you see on the streets of America on the daily. Big "heavy" cars smashing the little one... had the deltawing weighed 1000lbs more it would have likely been a much smaller incident resulting in a 180* spin and some body damage. at LeMans you saw the larger car shove the lighter one off the track. I dont think it has anything to do with its shape, its the fact that its a short car that is blacked out and will appear on your rear bumper out of seemingly nowhere coupled with it not weighing anything is the "problem". The drivers just need to be more aware of their surroundings. I think some of them need to do some open wheel racing and less at the local amusement parks gokarts.
Seriously. You guys say it isn't dangerous because the driver wasn't injured? That's so typical, only if something bad happens it's time to change something.
It is obvious that the Deltawing IS more dangerous than other cars. You can see it harder in the mirror, it is lighter and flips over faster, it has no wings that prevents flipovers, moreover its front is so thin, it is more like a three wheeler in its behaviour, which is bad for stability in dangerous and extreme situations.
I don't care if it is a noble project or something unique, we must stay true to its potential downsides, too. Safety is number one priority in motorsports today and due to its structural disadvantages compared to conventional 4 wheel cars, this doesn't belong onto a race track imho.
Seriously. You guys say it isn't dangerous because the driver wasn't injured? That's so typical, only if something bad happens it's time to change something.
It is obvious that the Deltawing IS more dangerous than other cars. You can see it harder in the mirror, it is lighter and flips over faster, it has no wings that prevents flipovers, moreover its front is so thin, it is more like a three wheeler in its behaviour, which is bad for stability in dangerous and extreme situations.
I don't care if it is a noble project or something unique, we must stay true to its potential downsides, too. Safety is number one priority in motorsports today and due to its structural disadvantages compared to conventional 4 wheel cars, this doesn't belong onto a race track imho.
Seriously. You guys say it isn't dangerous because the driver wasn't injured? That's so typical, only if something bad happens it's time to change something.
It is obvious that the Deltawing IS more dangerous than other cars. You can see it harder in the mirror, it is lighter and flips over faster, it has no wings that prevents flipovers, moreover its front is so thin, it is more like a three wheeler in its behaviour, which is bad for stability in dangerous and extreme situations.
I don't care if it is a noble project or something unique, we must stay true to its potential downsides, too. Safety is number one priority in motorsports today and due to its structural disadvantages compared to conventional 4 wheel cars, this doesn't belong onto a race track imho.
are you serious with this survey. arent you guys the one that was being a fucktard about the old technology was cool because its unsafe and shit. why is the delta wing a bad thing then.
are you serious with this survey. arent you guys the one that was being a fucktard about the old technology was cool because its unsafe and shit. why is the delta wing a bad thing then.
are you serious with this survey. arent you guys the one that was being a fucktard about the old technology was cool because its unsafe and shit. why is the delta wing a bad thing then.
As a Nissan fan, I think this is the most hideous race car in existence. Also, it is not adapted to racing normal cars.
As a Nissan fan, I think this is the most hideous race car in existence. Also, it is not adapted to racing normal cars.
No. Every race car driver knows the risk involved in racing. The question of is it too dangerous to race is a question you ask the driver.
@JakeYorath Oh you have a law degree? from a engineering point of view. the audi did not flip when hit going for a gap that was not their. The nissan did almost as soon as contact was made. They can make the center of gravity as low as psychically possible and anything else they can think o,f this in my opinion will happen again it the nature of the design.
Less weight, means less inertia, which inherently will make things a little less stable, just the way physics works. But calling it unsafe? Then bikes, gokarts, and other lightweight race paraphernalia are all unsafe by definition.
And it's hardly empirical evidence to call this race car unsafe, or that it will flip over all the time.
Case in point the 911's have the engine in the back and are known to be like driving a sledgehammer backwards, if the rear becomes unruly you quickly making way trough the undergrowth next to the track buttocks first. This is a known factor with the 911's, so every driver makes up for it in their driving style.
The delta is probably no different, it takes some getting used to. (granted after a rear-tire high-flip, you're reduced to a passenger)
@Nicholas Rodriguez @JakeYorath Sorry, from ABC? I am a motorsport journalist and I know a lot of the guys who put this car together. Why would they work on it if, as you say, they should give it up?
@Rccq I have neither law, nor engineering degrees. Do you have a dictionary or have any idea how to use grammar? My point is that any car is inherently unstable with contact like that.Defence rests, Pt II http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVFEoxl99i0
There's nothing any more 'unsafe' about this car than any other, and motorsport is a dangerous sport in itself
It's plenty easy to see and avoid, no more than a F1 car
It's track performance(handling) as told by the people who've actually driven it, is almost exactly like a LMP1 cars
Although it has no wings, it produces downforce in the same way 60% of a F1 cars is
the Delta Wing is basically a lightened, less-powered, LM Adapted, and wingless F1 car
Saying this is Unsafe is saying F1s are, and calling the blame onto the Deltawing is saying that the Porche had Nothing to do with this Crash(basically)
@Rccq @JakeYorath
@Rccq @JakeYorath don't necessarily agree that Delta Wing inherently unstable but to be fair yes that is a very different type of incident. Put a P1 car side on to the track at that speed and air will get under it. However the fact you call it an Audi just about sums up the endurance racing knowledge of most of the commenters on this post.
The "safety" jihad has ruined racing more than enough in the last 40 years. In the 60s, racing drivers died ALL THE TIME. It was a dangerous sport meant for the ballsy and the ones who were genuinely willing to play a high stakes game that meant they could lose their lives. Its also no coincidence that the 1960s was the absolute pinnacle of racing, in driver talent and ballsyness, and in the quality and extremeness of the cars being fielded. Of course, after a few too many fatal accidents, the FIA et all began to crack down on racing in all its forms. Now, anytime somebody dies, which has become front page news and also very rare, there is a pogrom to try and change rules or shut things down. ITS RACING. If you want to be coddled in absolute safety, go play xbox. Be one of those "professional" Gran Turismo players. There are still thousands of people out there willing to get in a racecar and risk it all and push themselves to the absolute limit. Stupid rule changes in the names of "safety"and "equality" have made almost all racing series significantly more boring and less meaningful than they were at their peak. I don't care about the stupid Deltawing, but there is no denying that this pussified reactionary attitude of cars being "too dangerous" has already wreaked enough damage on the world of racing.
Safety is number one priority huh. Then why don't we have everybody race around on peddle powered tricycles instead of being so close to those hot, dangerous, highly-stressed mechanical time bombs known as engines? Tool. Pushing "safety" at all costs belongs in a daycare, not on a racetrack. If drivers are too afraid to race they are more than welcome to go find another job. There are thousands upon thousands waiting to take their place.
@rogerwills @JakeYorath Roger in reference to this first video from Jake http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW3NDGk6YQE i was talking about the audi. And as for my knowledge on audi's it gives me my lifestyle.
Also the nissan is so light the forces needed to course this crash are much less than any other car on that track, the more i think about this car the more i think it's not suited.
@pstar This takes the cake, end of discussion. +100 man
and you guys wonder why this site no longer has any credibility in the paddock.... Bring back Booksie or Blackmore
@JakeYorath Anyone with a DSLR is a motorsport journalist now it seems. And like I said just because it works on paper doesn't mean it will work in real life. I know that these guys are smarter than I will ever aspire to be and I know I could never design such a thing but sometimes you have to take a "shade tree mechanic" look at things and realize that something isn't going to work no matter how bad you want it to. Should they give it up, no motorsport needs people like this to design the next generation of racecars but when it comes to designing something like this it's an art and as the saying goes good artists steal bad artists copy. I don't know this is just what I see as a fan and I've said from day one since I saw it on Jalopnik that I just don't think it would work. But i guess that's what they said about the Chaparral 2J and the Tyrrell P34. We just all have to wait and see.
@Bathsalt Barry @pstar agreed. pussified, excellent word choice
@Nicholas Rodriguez @JakeYorath
@Nicholas Rodriguez hahahaha don't abuse @JakeYorath. Why do forum comments always resort to that?... He created the finest sportscar magazine in Europe, is a press officer for one of the most professional teams over here, and as well as writing is a damn fine photographer (and that's where I earn my living so I feel qualified to comment.) He's no fan with a camera. Also, how has it not worked... It finished a very long race with no incident in a really respectable position!
This is tabloid journalism at its finest. Idiotic poll and some truly mind numbing comments, but actually pleased to see there are a good proportion of people sticking up for the delta wing. These sorts of questions shouldn't be bases on one freak incident.
Paint the damn tiny ass car anything but black, and it'll be more visible and make it that much more safe.
@Markus Ott
Your arguments saying that it's more dangerous are completely wrong. It's not harder to look in the mirror unless you're Kazuki Nakajima. Proof: It withstood a good couple of hours at Le Mans where EVERYONE saw it on their mirrors, except that TS030-drivng fool. The fact it's lighter is a stupid argument because, according to you then, an F1 car is even MORE DANGEROUS!!!! It doesn't flip over faster because, as said by multiple people in here and in everywhere else in the internetz, that's the way cars react when being punted that way at that speed, and it happens to the DW and to spec Miatas. It does have the sharkfin demanded by racing regulations, so that's another of your arguments rebutted. And it's not a three wheeler in its behaviour because it has the same front-end grip a four wheeled, wide wheelbase car has. The fact it can be driven by it's drivers that just came out of LMP2 cockpits proves the behaviour is nothing out of this world.
So, yeah. You fail at arguments.
The driver looked unscathed from the crash. He just looked frustrated with the Porsche driver. Although it might not be a bad idea to incorporate some type of framework around the drivers head so its not dragging on the ground during a roll-over. Looks like you could break your neck way too easily.
I don't want to blow my trumpet, but it's something I'm very good at - better even than watching ABC... I'm told by a reporter who was working for me at Petit Le Mans that Patrick Dempsey was 'blown away' by the magazine that we (myself in conjunction with an extremely talented team) create.With regards your flat earth, it-can't-work-and-I'm-sure-I-know-all-about-it-from-Jalopnik comments, the car has exceeded the P34 and Chaparral's achievements already. The 2J wanted better underbody aerodynamics, right? Well, the Deltawing has no conventional wings and, yet, corners at the same speed as an LMP car. The P34 aimed for less frontal area, so smaller wheels. The Deltawing is the most aerodynamically efficient racing car (I hesitate to say this but I believe it's true) in history.People are so resistant to change. Well, Luddites can bugger off.
@Rccq @rogerwills A Formula One car is lighter than an LMP1 car. SHIT FORMULA ONE IS TOO DANGEROUS QUICK LET'S DO A POLL ON THE INTERNET AND MAKE THE FIA BAN FORMULA ONE OMG
@JamesChaulk The monocoque is taken directly from the Aston Martin AMR-One, so is designed to meet current LMP requirements. The driver is not centred.
@jakeyorath I was so impressed by that car. I didnt really get to appreciate it at Le Mans. It is unbelievable.
Is this journalism? Doesn't look like it. Dreadful article inviting uninformed speculation. Show the 10 hours of the Nissan Deltawing slicing through traffic during the race at PLM. Why not show the same Porsche take out the leading Muscle Milk car, and ask the question 'are green cars dangerous'. You'll get as insightful a response.
@Tankslider In fairness, Peter Lesaffre (involved here and with Muscle Milk) did not much wrong against Luhr - Luhr tried for a gap that simply wasn't there. A marginal call that didn't pay off. However, agree 100% on the traffic point.
@jakeyorath I suppose open wheel racing should be banned, they can fall over after wheel to wheel contact at the wrong angle.
From the video shown the driver seemed to be very safe he was in your words "...not seriously hurt" so it would seem to be plenty safe.
There's an element of danger in any automotive race. The Delta is for all intensive purposes experimental. I'm tired of the safety nannies always coming in and trying to say what's O.K. and what isn't. In a round about way a race car driver is the same thing as a test pilot. There's going to be an element of risk in it, and in the long run, it's going to benefit the masses. It seems like people have forgotten that the technology on the track eventually makes it into our street cars. I applaud Nissan on the DeltaWing, and wish more companies would push the boundaries in racing.
@IamDarrenCox @jakeyorath and the poll says no! #GoDeltaWingGo
Just to make this clear!
Too all the people who think this car is hard to see on a race track:
Firstly: I see it perfectly fine on the race track in the video
Secondly: have you raced with a DeltaWing before? Highly doubtful. Unless you have, you have no basis to say it's hard to see on a racetrack. Any car can be hard to see on a racetrack if its in a blind spot.
Thirdly: This crash is not a matter of "Not seeing the car" The Porsche lost traction at the crest of the hill @ 1:21 and slid into the DeltaWing. Its simple physics people. Its a part of racing... shit happens!
I'd also like to say i voted NO. But it could use some safety improvements around the drivers head.
I believe in the safety of the deltawing. Todays exists so many rules and regulations for the race cars and i don`t think what nissan gonna crete a car whitout that`s specifications and put the driver`s life in iany risk. that looks like more bad luck for the drivers.
I hope somebody ban this thing from racing is obviously an unsafe design, also i hope nobody gets hurt racing this piece of sh..t!!!
@JuanVRobles The only thing unsafe is your riced out Civic on cut springs Juan
@JuanVRobles I know man. It could drive too close to the edge of the Earth and NOBODY KNOWS WHAT'S UNDERNEATH
McNish drives under the car, it's Ortelli flying.
@Bathsalt Barry @JuanVRobles
faggot be mad
damn that shit is crazy, you could lose your bloody head off
it at least needs a small cage to cover the driver
Just curious, what makes this any more dangerous than any other open cockpit racecar? Why does it need a cage? Formula 1, Indy, ALMS, have open cockpit cars, no cages, and nobody is crying.
It just needs a higher roll hoop, maybe paired with a front roll structure.. (to cover the driver's helmet) like the regulation introduced to Formula 1 in the late 70s.
The Porsche hit the Delta wing - not the other way around !!!
Safety is not the real issue here. It is the car's disgraceful design! But hey, we gotta get it off the track somehow and playing the safety card is one way, I guess.