I’ve probably spoken about this before, but there’s no harm repeating it. We are very much in a minority on this planet. As people who like to burn and consume finite natural resources in creative ways, the consumption of which is in itself simply appalling for the environment, it’s safe to say that we’re probably not going to win any friends soon. It’s hard to defend what we do, but for those who understand would likely agree, our cars and bikes are something we could never live without. As such, regardless of your tastes or preferences, we have a sort of unspoken bond between us; that knowing nod from a fellow petrolhead, or – to paraphrase Mike Finnegan from Roadkill – the ability to strike up a conversation with a fellow enthusiast at a gas station about your cars.
It’s with this in mind that I want to talk about a topic that has been irking me for quite a while: the growing portion of our small community who believe that the world exists solely for their own individual needs and are rotting our community from the inside.
It’s happening across the world wide web and I’ve had the misfortune to experience it in person too. Generalisations are dangerous, but in my experiences these people tend to be very young and from an upbringing where they’ve been raised to believe that they are the centre of the universe. This sort of protected rearing doesn’t do anybody good. Not you, not me and not the person in question. I was raised on the simple principles of respecting others and that your reputation is worth more than all of the money in the world. A great woman once told me that ‘even if you don’t have a penny in your pocket, you can still have your name and hold your head high.’
When you’re raised to believe that only your opinion matters, you immediately remove any opportunity to learn from your life. Countless times I’ve read harsh one-word comments which thrash someone’s hard work with no justification or even the decency to qualify their stance. Or worse. Rather than appreciating an awesome final product, they immediately turn it around into what they would have done to make it ‘better’. This latter example exemplifies the increasing levels of narcissism displayed by a lot of Millennials, typically none of which have ever done anything to show that they are even remotely capable of creating something on their own in the first place. Instead, they believe that the rest of us mere mortals should be grateful that they’ve shared their virtuous judgement with us.
Politely, they can f**k off.
It’s these people that have created a world of hostility within our community; a community which is built on enjoyment and freedom; a community which transcends gender, race, religion, language barriers and pretty much every other obstacle we as a species have imposed upon ourselves. I’m proud to be a car guy because I value what it means. The fact that you or I could go anywhere in the world and find a like-minded individual and start talking (or pointing and smiling if language is in the way) passionately about automobiles is an incredible feeling. In a world with increasing paranoia and different countries trying to blow each other to pieces, I feel that we’re a last bastion of sensibility. As such, I take any threat to our family seriously.
But surely everyone’s entitled to their opinion? No. Nobody is entitled to an opinion unless you can back it up with facts, experiences or legitimate and thoughtful debate. You also have to be willing to concede and change said opinion when your opinion has been undoubtedly proven wrong. People become so obsessed with being right, that they forget what they’re arguing about in the first place. Life becomes much easier when you’re open to having your opinions and thoughts challenged and changed on a regular basis.
At the end of the day, I don’t want potential new members of our family to be scared off by the hostility of the self-important few. I want our family to continue to grow and I want others to be able to take away the absolute enjoyment that we do. I want to share my experiences that may help others and I want to learn from others’ experiences too. I don’t want this to become a world where people are afraid to do what they feel is right with their car, because they are afraid of being bullied or abused by others. If you can’t express yourself, then there’s no point in doing what we do.
What if you’re one of these from this self-entitled generation but you’ve become self-aware and want out? All you have to do is to reach out and we’ll be ready to make you one of the family. There’s always room for more.
Paddy McGrath
Instagram: pmcgphotos
Twitter: pmcgphotos
paddy@speedhunters.com
OFFICIAL SPEEDHUNTERS SUPPLIERS
I feel like there is probably an interesting story that spurred this editorial. Care to share?
I blame the advent of social media for this mindset
To be fair, I see a lot of articles on a lot of websites with Baby Boomers complaining about Millenials. This type of generalization makes a lot of Boomers(you!) just as bad, if not worse than the same crap coming from the mouths and minds of the Millenials. The Boomers are our parents, and they told us we could have whatever we want in this world. We try hard to get what we want in this world in response, and it certainly makes me feel, sometimes, that what I want is what matters. One way to look at this is to call that attitude ambitious, perhaps.
Us young people grew up learning not to discriminate, so we look at everyone the same. People who bitch and moan about "generation __" do just that, bitch, and often don't accomplish much. You lucked out because you can bitch in a popular blog, congrats. Do yourself a favor, and don't worry about labeling people so much. You'll end up finding somethinng to complain about anywhere anytime. God knows I don't take every chance I can to bitch about the poor spending, social, and political habits of the generations above me (although I could....). I guess I need an auto blog.
STICK TO POSTING COOL CAR STUFF! /rant.
I come here every day, and these articles are the worst.
johnbezt you just blamed the other generation for your actions and at the same time justified your actions by calling it ambition. Sometimes it is better not to say anything at all.
@Nate johnbezt Nate I swear I was about to say the same thing when your comment popped up lmao!
@Nate I blame the less general section of social media... Keyboard warriors.
@Nate johnbezt I'm trying hard not to. I'm trying to just see the facts of what has happened over the generations (the good the bad), and move forward without trying to change it.
I'm saying, "generation shmeneration, not healthy to dwell on the negative aspects of them."
peace and love man. don't be so quick to assume the worst.
Damn kids get off my lawn!
This is interesting. In my local areas car group, there are always "those" causing issues. And some way, some how, highschoolers are always bunched into the group that cause issues, even though were typically the calm ones not doing anything stupid. A majority of baby boomers seem to think that when anything bad happens, its automatically the "kids" fault and not theirs. Remember who sets the example for us-ITS YOU!
Amazing. For me the word that sums up this problem is "debate". People have to be "right" all the time to feel good. They live in absolutes. I have my taste, i don´t like everything but you do what you like and i´m willing to discuss those differences. I love debate, exchange of ideas. Nobody has to win but many people think that this is important.
Because of this, it´s hard to even express your opinion in a totally polite way, since people tend to take this as an aggression. I don´t like the way you did your car, i would have done it differently but it doesn't mean that you´re wrong, a bad person, stupid or something bad. It´s an opinion, taste, and i think that if people knew how to debate stuff, they would enjoy many advantages, new ideas even from someone with a radically different point of view.
The fuck is this shit? Delete this rant.
zombiedog seriously
I resent this post. It's not YOUR community dude. It belongs to whoever is there, and you don't get to choose who, with whatever attitudes, gets to truly be a real part of said community. If i'm not mistaken, modified car culture has been on a foundation of rowdiness and egomania for many, many, many years. Hell, watch Grease....
You make some good points Paddy, in the end I think we just need to ignore these people who are attempting to be unfriendly in our community to avoid giving their opinions any power over the enjoyment of this amazing facet of our cultural you described here in great detail. They seem to be part of the STOP LIKING THINGS THAT I DON'T LIKE philosophy and honestly they're just ruining their place in this community for themselves as you pointed out with the part about keeping a good reputation. I don't think we need to do anything but ignore these people and eventually their own philosophy will come to wreck them in the future. I feel like I used to hate on other peoples rides when I was younger as well (we've all been that immature at some point) until I came to realize the whole "To each his own" thing makes for a much more comfortable way of life. Basically, the way I see it this younger generation is just going through some growing pains and they will suffer through it and eventually grow to be more mature so be patient with them and realize we were that stupid once as well...
johnbezt I don't think he's trying to act like some sort of dictator for the community mayne, I think he's just trying to get people to dedicate themselves to a higher standard of behavior and attitude that will save this community from all the eco friendly spergelords in the future when the petrolhead community truly comes under attack. And yes, we all know the car community is a foundation for egomania, however I think Paddy is saying this needs to change if we want to survive in a world where environmentalism is the #1 priority
johnbezt Modified car culture was founded on creativity and pushing the boundaries of what a car can be or do. This article seems to have struck a cord with you for a reason.
@BARRACK OBONGO What a bunch of crap, so now I can't have an opinion about an ugly ass pos car? gtfo lol
formsrbp It's because when they hate something or discriminate against something, they just ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist to preserve their own ideals. It's sickening because they, too, need a keyboard in front of them if they feel the need to complain about something.
They are totally saying your opinion doesn't matter.
Regardless of which generation is better or worse, 10 years ago the community was more of a whole, nowadays it is a lot more divided with a lot more opinionated people. Car meets and shows had a proper mix, there are so many different "scenes" nowadays, everyone believes they are the centre of it. It was a lot better back then.
formsrbp haha nah I'm just saying we should ignore you and continue on about our business because your opinion doesn't really matter to those who are enjoying themselves. and honestly you make a good point I didn't realize, we need to stop taking ourselves so seriously because who cares if you think somebody's car is a POS
@BARRACK OBONGO formsrbp you should be ignored as well then. It breeds separation. It's wrong to do that. You're just wrong here. You don't get to decide who's part of THE community, only yours.
I really don't think the problem has anything to do with age. Writing about millenials is just an easy and harmful way to generalize. We've always had the assholes, they get to be more vocal now with the advent of the internet. I agree with everything you said about them, but it's not a new concept brought to us by the young. Assholes that think their opinion is fact have been around forever. Just take a look at any member of the US Congress. They're all really old (too old and been there too long in my opinion), and all believe everything they say is fact, and won't debate or change their opinion. They'll shut down our government, and cause great harm to everyday citizens to attempt to get their way. It's not a generation issue, it's a society issue. Making it an age issue only alienates the young, and might prevent them from experiencing what a true community is. The young are impressionable, we still have a chance to help shape them.
I'm angry at you and I don't know why. I guess you're right about all of it. I just don't think this post will help anything. All it will do is bring out all the keyboard warriors. Also, just because things are changing, doesn't mean that the changes are bad. In 15 years, I will hate children and in 15 more, so will the children I once hated. Idk maybe you're right and I'm just an entitled little kid that needs to get off your lawn.
@BARRACK OBONGO johnbezt simple answer is to hop on more resource friendly technologies instead of complaining.
@Nate johnbezt yeah, the complaining and blaming of generations has seeped its way into every single interest I pursue to enjoy on the web. Its annoying.
You want these hooligans to either change or leave? Well that's your opinion, and It's been made very clear to me in this article and comments section that everyone is allowed theirs, except young people...
BirdHasACamera /discussion. This^^^
johnbezt Everybody is allowed an opinion, the problem is that if it isn't a positive opinion you need to learn to keep them to yourself. Your negativity is what Paddy was referring to and it is detrimental to the hobby because it potentially drives away other interested parties.
I like cars and cars like me. The end.
Paraphrasing "Gosh darn whipper-snappers these days.. Get off my lawn!"
@Nate johnbezt This is about as close as i'll come to agreeing. I know negative comments should be kept to one's self, in fact I believe in that.
formsrbp Your opinion is fine. The way you present it, or if you even should present it all, is the problem.
Statements like 'gtfo, lol'...don't further discussion. Posting that a car you don't like is a POS is unnecessary. That only serves to harm. Don't like it, can't be civil?...move on. It's a simple concept. No need to start slinging insults at other enthusiasts.
So much butthurt. Here ya go folks
Is the only purpose of these car culture gripe articles to bolster comment traffic stats? If so here's another one for you.
Everyone is so sensitive and politically correct, putting so much weight in hollow opinions is making the problem worse not better.
type1blue All it's doing is bringing out the people the article is referring to within this comment section. It's funny because he never said all Millennials were like this. BUT unfortunately in this sub-culture many of them are.
This is hands down one of the best articles you guys have ever posted on speedhunters. Thank you guys, you summed up my thoughts and experiences all in one. already shared a bunch of times haha
Speedhunters well said!
Best article ever!!! They needed this written right after sowo this year tho lol
I believe the point you are trying to make involves more than just the "car world". Asshats are asshats regardless of their interest.
love the article. excellent points and writing style. keep up the good work, we're lucky to have someone like you on the speedhunters team
And one last note, the amount of hate this article is getting, not only in these comments but the forums in which I shared it, is the exact point he is trying to make and reason it was written.
therealnecroscope Not a chance
Paddy McGrath therealnecroscope You said you had personal experience with it..
I think there are some wrong statements made here. To me it looks like you are blaming a particular group of people. But in the end, having this discussion is useless: it changes nothing. So what is actually the point of this story if I may ask?
The conclusion is very weird: self entitled generation that becomes self-awere? Have you aver seen an asshole become self-awere? I don't..
@Nate Maybe not so much social media, but more so the anonymity provided by the internet. When people realise there's no repercussions for being a dick, they tend to become even bigger dicks.
pmcgphotos Well said Paddy. Now, back to the Polaroids and leave the writing to the big boys...
neilmbriscoe Will I post you your crayons back?
Paddy McGrath
I get those emails all the time. It's SPAM'S FAULT!
RicardoSmits Paddy McGrath therealnecroscope I'm just not willing to share that particular experience or else I'll have to live with the drama. Plus it's not fair to potentially shame someone online without giving them a chance to defend themselves.
I am blaming a particular subset of people, but I'm also keen to point out that I know that it's not everyone within this group. I'm trying to reach out to people who might be put off by our community due to the current levels of hostility that surround it. I want people to have the opportunity to experience the same enjoyment that cars have given me. No more, no less.
Also, no need to apologise, your English is great!
therealnecroscope Paddy McGrath Hahahaha, I knew I should have worded that better.
Speedhunters THIS ARTICLE GOES OUT TO ALL THE KIDS IN VAUGHAN.
It's funny you should mention the matter of entitlement, because I was watching an old episode of Dragnet last night where Friday and Gannon arrested a group of hippies for burglary, who proceeded to tell the cops that they were all fed up with materialism and unfairness and the like.
Then the cops proceeded to remind them that (this episode being made in the late 60s) they'd probably never seen a hundred men competing for one job during the Depression, or a neighbor's house with a "quarantine" sign on it, or a person with polio, or a bunch of other things that Friday and Gannon grew up with.
The point is, these hippies felt entitled to be angry about things that were no big deal to people who'd seen much worse, but because they'd grown up in affluence, they didn't have any sense of perspective on what constituted real problems.
I'm really tempted to get up on the soapbox here, but I won't do it. The way I see it, you get to be an asshole about life's hard moral stuff. But since cars aren't a hard moral matter, you don't get to be an asshole about them.
Personally, I'm not a fan of Itasha or Bippu, for numerous reasons - but the people who build those cars ARE, and do so out of a sense of love and fascination. That's the important part - that they're fellow enthusiasts.
We want people to join us in our world of cars, not only because what we do is fun, but out of a sense of self-preservation. We don't want to drive people away.
We cars guy absolutely DO NOT want to become the AR-15 snobs, the militant Star Wars fans or the Apple fanboys, who alienate outsiders with their obnoxious, elitist attitudes and behavior, and their lack of perspective.
Ice Age I couldn't agree more with this. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts, really appreciated.
johnbezt Every generation that's ever lived has believed that both its predecessors and its successors are Doing It Wrong.
pmcgphotos neilmbriscoe well said.
CharlesChris15
Every one sets an example for everyone. In my experience, peers have the greatest influence over our behavior. Fall in with a group of baddies and more than likely you'll become a baddy. Fall in with entrepreneurs and you'll follow a similar path. It takes an extremely strong will to stand TRULY apart. Don't blame anyone. Blame EVERYone...including yourself. Societal change is glacially slow. I remember 30 years ago saying that my generation would change things. They haven't. Some try, but the masses beat them down.
Entertainment "news" has much blame to face. The latest spate of gun control talks as example. John Oliver said it right that if you want to blame the shooter, you have to take mental health treatment seriously and do it NOW. Guns don't kill people. People do...but nobody really wants to fix people. Not really.
haters gonna hate, right? great article!
BRUSH FIRE in the HOUSE!
@hcetretsam Can't disagree with that.
pmcgphotos It has always been the same. People love to tear someone/something down to make themselves feel better.
My coworker says it best really "offense can only be taken, not given". Car culture is very competitive by its nature and thus breeds narrow view points based on personal experience. You only have to look at the Chevy v Ford v Dodge to see that bashing and opinions have burned bright and been shouted at each other for decades.
So this is not a new problem and I can't say that this is a problem that will ever go away. It's also a trap that we've all fallen into at one point or another (and you're lying if you say you haven't)
So what can we do? Easy. Be vocally positive whenever you can. See a build that took a massive amount of work but isn't necessarily your thing? Praise the craftsmanship. And if you are ever the spotlight of criticism feel glad that your work evoked a response because that person just had to and you made him/her.
#build a better car scene
http://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/how-to-disagree/
As a millennial myself, it sucks that this is true. I've lost count of the number of times I've been having a conversation about the engine rebuild I did (nothing fancy, all stock components) with a fellow millennial when it changes to how much mommy and daddy paid to have their new exhaust installed on their brand new BRZ. Or when it changes to how I should've done my rebuild in a different way that was way out of budget. It's extremely frustrating. I like to believe that I'm not part of this subculture though, and take pride in the work I do on my car and try to learn what I can where I can.
@imaginbaru I can't put enough emphasis on the fact that I know it's not *all* Millenials. Good on you for keeping it real.
Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and they all stink.
Tinj I absolutely intended to provoke discussion and critical thinking with this short piece. I think the Speedhunters' readership is quite unique and really well suited to having a solid debate on this subject. I don't expect everyone to agree with me - and I know I'll get flamed for it too - but it's a conversation worth having as a community.
I agree with your point too, it baffles me when I read people shouting in the comments because someone e;se has decided to do something different with their own car. That they paid for. With their own money. In the grand scale of things, I think there are a lot more important things to be getting worked up over.
Also, I just bought an RX-8, any more images of that 8? Looks nice.
type1blue I doubt it'll change anything either, which does make it frustrating. I'm not against the youth at all, rather the opposite in fact. I want to be a part of encouraging young petrolheads to follow their dreams and not be put off what can be quite a hostile environment at times.
PowerTryp This is a fantastic article Paddy, and PowerTryp, you make a very good point yourself. With a lifestyle as varied as ours, there will always be people in certain camps. Imports vs Domestics, racers vs stance, GM vs Ford, Mits vs Subaru..... Great rivalries give this lifestyle the culture and historical significance it enjoys today. If everyone had the same passions, it would be boring!
The issue is the way people approach the discussion. I remember back in the 90's when there would be fist fights between the import and domestic camps when they would inadvertently meet up at the same street racing venue. This only happened once in a blue moon, but with the facelessness of the internet, and the lack of any real repercussions for just pure hatred for the sake of hating... I find the growing saturation of negativity rather toxic.
BirdHasACamera I agree with you, but it's a difficult subject to talk about without using a particular group as an example. It's just from my own experiences that the millennials seem to have the highest concentration of self entitlement, although I'm completely aware that it's not exclusively limited to this particular group.
You're exactly right and you have worded it better than I have. This should be more about 'saving' the good ones or at least trying to show people what our community is really about.
@Nad Great, great post. When I first became involved with the car community as a young teenager, car forums were quite large and far more general than they are now. As such, the different groups interacted really well with each other and we all gained experience of the varying car sub-cultures. From Italian classics to Japanese imports, from muscle cars to German bahn-stormers, we were all part of the same family.
Now, every sub-culture has been divided and broken down to the point where guys with MKV GTIs argue with guys with MKVI GTIs about who's car is better. To move forward as a community, I think we need to go backwards.
FunctionFirst I only have old pictures on my own site, there's been some changes since: http://www.pmcgphotos.com/automotive/catching-up-with-friends-and-a-mazda-rx8.html
As a millennial, I am so glad to see this article. We need to take responsibility for our actions as the next generation, and learn to appreciate our differences in style, preference, brands and builds. At the end of the day, if you are contributing to the car culture in any way shape or form you deserve some respect. I hope many people my age read this with a positive outlook and an open mind. Great work.
pmcgphotos Touché, good sir. Shall we meet on the common for a duel of the morrow?
One of us,
Equals many of us,
Disrespect one of us,
You'll see many of us.
Great write up, very passionate, and rightly so. Respects.
Budd19 PowerTryp I don't think rivalries are a bad thing, provided they're not taken too seriously. When people get genuinely worked up over the fact that another human being has the audacity to like something that they don't like, it's time for a long, hard look in the mirror.
Paddy McGrath I don't think anonymity spurns it because most people use their own
identity (facebook, twitters or whatever people use). I think people
misconstrue the attention they get as validity of their opinion. That
coupled with the mob mentality that social media creates is what creates
such a toxic community.
Bud just epic exactly how I feel about our love and joy of cars. I love them all, all styles all looks all brands and doesn't matter who drives it if he took the time and appreciate it then ill shake his hand and say awesome work man!
@Nate Paddy McGrath That's a really interesting view that I hadn't considered before. Mob mentality is the worst too. People who get worked up over nothing and then forget why they're supposed to be mad and just continue to be mad anyways.
johnbezt Just as a small FYI, I'm not ignoring you. I just want to take the time to give your post the response it deserves. It's good that you feel so passionately about this.
Thanks for the inspiring read Paddy!
in response to the whole schpiel about not being entitled to an opinion unless you back it up with facts and other assorted anecdotal evidence;
why do you like cars? is it because you like things that go fast? if so, why do you like things that go fast?
there are some things that inevitably come down to opinion, that cannot be proven "wrong", per se, even though they have no logical evidence to back it up.
I respectfully disagree.
@Kenny And that's perfectly fine. But do you care to elaborate?
neilmbriscoe Gentleman’s rules, 40 paces.
Blurat Rushy33 It's relevant to any group of people - the facelessness of the web gives power to the trolls
It's not that anyone isn't or is allowed an opinion it's the fact that these people state these opinions as the end all be all yet present any fact or basis to back up said opinion. Everyone is open to their own thoughts, ideas, and opinions but you should also be respectful of others because when it comes to personal interpretation (which modifying cars is a personal interpretation of what the builder wants their car to be) there isn't a right or wrong answer only different ways to achieve a goal that's what is being stated in this article.
For someone who says they hate bitching and complaining you sure have done quite a bit of that in the comment section.
You literally just justified everything said in the article.
SS6K You're 100% right. There are definitely things that can't be explained. But I think people should at the very least try. Rather than posting one word replies that are solely created to hurt or inflame an argument.
amen. amen 1000 times....
This article is exactly what I wanted to see, but wait. Is this thing limited only to car culture? I mean look, Unity-using devs trash others, Apple and Android users trash each others, chopper-driving bikers trashes on "plastic" streetbikes. There's a lot zipper-suited sun gods in all sectors.
I love these types of write ups to break the norm, and I agree 100% with what you've said. One thing I might disagree with, however, is that all of the car bashing is done by younger individuals. I don't know if the rivalries between makes is the same everywhere as it is in the US, but it is still very real and a big problem over on this side of the pond. The brand wars that were intentionally started by the big three in the late 60's are still alive and well. And this hatred of other makes comes mainly from the middle aged. For example, though this may be rather extreme, I have a friend that dailys a Camaro. No big deal right? Wrong, at least according to the older man that pulled up next to his car in the parking lot (driving a newer Mustang) and proceeded to key the words "Chevy sucks" on the door of the Camaro. This was caught on CCTV, I've seen the footage myself. This nonsensical hatred is not exclusive to the youth, and the older folks tend to be more vocal of their opinions in person than today's keyboard warriors.
johnbezt formsrbp We are totally not saying that.
BirdHasACamera formsrbp Perfectly put.
Paddy McGrath Budd19 PowerTryp For the most part, I think we are all talking the same language. It's awesome to see that this there is an overwhelming of positive posts and the pure haters have seemed to be temporarily scared off.
I miss the days when a fellow auto writer and myself, both having very differing opinions, would stay in the office to the wee hours of the morning debating what car should win in a comparison. For hours we would fight it out until one person would have to concede due to facts, merits and who the target market was. Some debates became quite heated, but at the end of the day, we were both open to what the other had to say, and we still enjoy a great friendship... even if he does drive a Ford!
Dill Pickle That is honestly shocking. WTF is wrong with some people?
@smallblockyota I sometimes feel that cars hate me.
Paddy McGrath BirdHasACamera It is difficult to talk about at all. I'm technically (and begrudgingly) a millennial (I'm 32). I've also always been into cars that were not the norm around me. My experiences were shaped more by the older crowd who hated on ricers because they didn't have v8's like their Camaros.
I think what some people miss when talking about millennials and entitlement, is millennials don't have the same opportunities as those before them. We were all told whatever we wanted was attainable if we worked for it. However, the reality has been anything but that. The buying power of our wages is lower than the last two generations, we're more educated, but that education won't get you a job...I think a lot of them are more disillusioned and pissed than entitled and they're lashing out as a response to the situation they're in. But that's a whole other problem not related to cars...lol
Glad we agree though...assholes suck, and they're all over the internet.
I don't believe its a generation exclusive problem at all. I've seen many older guys and girls hate on certain builds and brands without any reasoning to back it up. Other than that yeah i agree, this picky attitude people have is killing the community, just chill out and appreciate a mean looking car when you see one
Dmsq_ It's definitely not limited to one particular group, just from my own experiences I see a lot of it from a generation younger than me. Maybe because I'm closer to them? Anyways, thanks for taking the time to comment.
I'm 20 years old and I'm glad to say I've been brought up correctly and have learned to work hard for what I want. I fully respect all cotergories of car culture and yes I agree with what has been mentioned in this post. Some people just don't get it
So, just to throw a spanner in the works, I would be considered a 'millennial' also.
Budd19 Paddy McGrath And that's where the real issue lies, a complete lack of communication. Everybody is willing to spout their opinion without defending it.
It seems like we are on the same page and it's a breath of fresh air to see others accepting of the whole car scene and not just their niche.
a car is a car, a build is a build, i dont care what it is, someone put there blood, sweat, and tears in their car, i respect anything that shows up, that doesnt mean i like it, but i dont hate on someone because of their build. their build is part of their personality, if you had on someones personality you sir a douche, that doesnt mean you need to be their friends.
i went to a show about 6 months ago, it wasnt big, but i liked how it was ran, when you get here park beside who was before you, it doesnt matter what it is just park their. we got parked by a camaro and a evo. im gonna be honest i never got into anything muscle, but the guy's story behind the camaro was amazing. thats when i learned, it doesnt what it is, we are all into the same thing.
pmcgphotos Who said I'm a gentleman?
neilmbriscoe Well, P_aulHealy told me about that night away in France on a launch...
Paddy McGrath BirdHasACamera formsrbp You're right. She should have told you to "Politely, fuck off".
Paddy please have a hug from me ʕっ•ᴥ•ʔっ
wojcei20 You're right, and I'll explain myself. Negative commentary by would-be know it alls should be kept to one's self. Obviously. Complaining about it as if it's some kind of generation exclusive issue is just so annoying. It's about as hypocritical as me complaining about complaining, if that makes sense.
I hope his next article is about cars.
Paddy McGrath calling people dicks isn't a negative opinion of people that you should keep to yourself then? Maybe you should accept this "challenge" and "change" your opinion of how you go about addressing this issue of yours. Consider writing a personal journal because your professional website is barely an acceptable forum for this.
Yeah, but what if they build their car stupidly?
Like cut springs and chinese rep garbage and stretched out mad-cambered wheels, all on a chassis that is dangerously degraded and under-maintained, or in violation of pretty much every emissions regulation/law on the book?
Just ignore them and don't worry about it. It's not your car
God I love this article!
pmcgphotos P_aulHealy We were both young, and lonely. Everyone experiments!
neilmbriscoe pmcgphotos young? Us? I call shenanigans.
Generalize much?
P_aulHealy pmcgphotos Well, younger than we are now at any rate. And significantly more flexible. Ahem.
@BMWtrackJunkie You can be polite in being critical, especially if the person's safety is at risk. People tend to respond better to polite advice than being shouted at too.
I enjoyed this article a lot!
Especially since I'm part of the idiotic generation discussed and I couldn't agree more.
DRiFTaddict Ace.
Paddy McGrath I have to agree with Dmsq_ ... ignorance and self-centeredness creeps in from any age group. I'm a gen x'er - older than millennials, and younger than the baby boomers - and see it from both ends of the spectrum. While millennials may be self-entitles, the boomers are too often stuck in their own past. What they had/have was/is always the best... and without any logical reason why. Simply "because". A lot like millennials.
In my father's generation, it was Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge. If you drove one, you hated the others. Just because. Forty years later, they all still hold onto those biases. I've known people of that generation snicker at my WRX while they drive off in their Malibu... and I don't mean a tricked out, shoebox Malibu... I mean a FWD econobox family sedan. But hey, it's a Chevy, so of course it's better than anything Japan might produce.
The world moved on, They didn't.
It's a different self-centeredness than millennials, but it amounts to the same in the end.
I can recall instances where i've been on both sides of this, and nowadays I just try to respect other people's builds or interest. I'm glad there's people doing something different with their vehicles, a lot of times you'll see people playing copycat, and that's cool. But I think if one were to truly bring about change and innovation, one would need to do something different, even if the change isn't welcomed at first.
This sort of thing has been bothering me for years, and I'm only 21. The whole "Us vs. them" mindset that seems to plague car discussions online is really ruining things for everyone. We're all friends, we all have slightly different tastes, let's not bash eachother like savages.
This is the exact reason I can't stand sites like Jalopnik. There is so much elitism in this community, and this article hit on it. How many of those people actually have cars? How many of those people are just bitter and miserable because they fucked up their lives? How many people there believe everyone should follow their mantra when it comes to cars?
Personally speaking, I've got car friends of mine that I am close with. They do autocross. I don't. We still can talk about our four wheeled friends for hours on end. I know they hate on the scene I'm into (stance/showcar) but they keep it to themselves and prevent becoming keyboard warriors.
It's like religion: Don't fucking force your views on others. Sometimes I feel as if parts of this scene are like some crazed religious nuthouses with how many people try to convert others away from stance, fake wheels, riveted on fenders, or whatever trend they may be crusading against. Calling someone a derogatory term or telling them that they're stupid doesn't help your argument.
We're killing ourselves from the inside, plain and simple.
neilmbriscoe P_aulHealy pmcgphotos This is honestly one of the best comments I've ever seen... Nailed it!
@Beany It's a difficult subject to approach without making some generalisations, but I've been quite clear in pointing out that I'm aware that it's not *everyone* within a particular subset nor is it exclusive to one generation or another.
That's what happend when they star paying attention to none productive people like kanye and the kardashians.
Its all the Kardashians, Apple and Google fault...Lol!!!
I wonder what sorts of recent events make your mind to write this interesting and truthful article.
@960 regarding the Beef between Harley bikers and sportbike riders...I've been a biker since well I was a little kid and I always will be. And I have to say that for so many years the media and a small ignorant group of people have tried to create this aura and urban legend that there's a beef. This is just a tiny small group that think they're bikes are better just cause they are American Made, they pay 3 times more, even do they leak oil brand new and are crappy and poorly tuned purposely to spit & sputter so they can sound and vibrate in a particular way. But in reality there is no beef at all. Its like when you watch that wrestling channel and see that ignorant so 80's thing they do trying to make a beef between USA and Russia...in 2015 and they are still doing that... Bikers are like a family we don't care what you ride as long as you ride. And all do Im a car guy to...I have to say in my experience I have yet to meet a more friendly group of people than bikers no matter what you ride. For me personally is all about the diversity that makes it fun.
Im gonna agree and quote James Blunt when he said: "People's opinions are like assholes... everyone's got one!"
Paddy McGrath Dmsq_ Just have to say... damn, I should have proof-read that. My spelling was awful. That's what I get for rushing through a post while at the office. My bad.
@RaceAddict Paddy McGrath Dmsq_ You got your point across perfectly, that's all that really matters. People who attack another's grammar during a discussion or argument are usually clutching at straws.
johnbezt Paddy McGrath It's an analogy, meant in jest.
hmmmm i agree and slightly disagree (if only on the semantics) about opinions.
By definition an opinion is
"a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge."
and because of this everyone is entitled to what they think. I think the old adage "If you have nothing nice to say better to say nothing at all" is more appropriate. No one likes everything and i see builds and things on here even that i don't particularly like or have an interest, say for instance the chopped hot/rat rods...not my scene, i'd never own one but i can appreciate the work thats gone into them, some of the details on the white '28 Tudor posted a while ago for instance, blew me away and i can respect the work gone into it.
Yes sometimes people do stupid things to their cars that compromise safety or sometimes are just ricey and don't actually have the performance benefits that they people think they have. (locally that'd be altezza owners with fart cans) but i think if we could put that aside as a car community and at least try weed out ignorance with kindness rather than just bashing people who don't know any better everyone would be better off
@Alex Chestnut I can't say that I'm perfect and that I've behaved perfectly all my life, but I have made a conscious effort to try and rise above petty behaviour. It's hard because people will try to drag you down, but at the end of the day, it's a far more enjoyable life when you learn to seek out the positives.
johnbezt I had the full intentions of engaging you below, but seeing you repeatedly post and just trying to have a pop at me, means that I would probably be wasting my time. Would I?
Slappy_Pistons
Loxlee I like to think we’re better than that though. People have been getting away with this kind of thing for far too long.
BirdHasACamera Paddy McGrath I can only speak from my own experiences, but I completely relate to what you're saying. It has been damned hard for me all through college and out into the 'real' world. Every day I fight for my living and to have the absolute privilege to do what I do. I know it won't last forever, but provided I have no regrets at the end, I think I'll be a happy man.
danielbelvino Great point, Daniel.
pmcgphotos great article. Best way to put it. Not just for the car guy but life in general too.
thetram Thanks a million, Tram. Appreciate that.
Paddy McGrath Not really, but sure I'll give it a whirl.
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but you've built an argument that millennials, for whatever reason, feel entitled to ridicule others whom they know nothing about, on their work/preferences/beliefs/whatever.
I don't think that this is a new phenomenon but rather an evolution of one that stretches back to the beginnings of the human race. For lack of a better term I shall call it "Them and Us"
Humans seem to love nothing better than dividing things up into categories, identifying with one of those categories and deriding all other related categories
e.g. Computer games (Xbox vs Playstation), school cliques (Jocks vs Geeks), Football (Celtic vs Rangers), Race (Caucasian vs Negro), Religon (Christian vs Protestant),Electricity (AC vs DC) to name but a few.
I will say that such behaviour is vastly more prevalent thanks to the anonymity of the internet. If it is more harmful than before is beyond me.
But if some one gives me an opinion and is unable or unwilling to argue its veracity. Well, they can politely, f**k off.
Right on Paddy McGrath!! Agreed with thetram too- across the board
@Kenny Paddy McGrath For someone just giving it a 'whirl', you sure put together a good argument.
I don't like the generalisation that had to be made, but it's a difficult subject to approach without having one. I'm acutely aware - and have expressed this several times in the comments here already - that it's not exclusive to one group nor does it mean *every* person in any given subset is guilty.
For the record, I'm what would be considered a millennial too. In a strange sort of way, I'm sort of hoping to break down the walls and bring the good ones aboard and into our community. In the process, maybe we might convert some people along the way too.
I can't stand the obstacles that we have imposed upon ourselves as a species.
Dill Pickle You can curse a man, but you never touch his car. It's just not done.
yeah! compassion and wisdom
Paddy McGrath Slappy_Pistons
Abe aside nice post Paddy, I've tried and failed to write a similar piece before.
DaveT Paddy McGrath Slappy_Pistons I only discovered that 'Netflix & Chill' doesn't actually mean watching Netflix and chilling out. So, that picture is far more accurate that I would like.
Paddy McGrath DaveT Slappy_Pistons Heh. There's a car rolling around here with "Netflix & Chill?" on the back bumper....
Nice article, however I do feel car communities tend to 'congregate' into smaller groups, especially when it comes to car clubs. The local scene is littered with clubs that used to be close knit but went there own ways because of (more often that not) petty reasons for argument. I find that even older enthusiasts tend to elitist about brand or level of restoration or mods, not only the entitled generation. It has more to do with personality rather than age, a hater will always be a hater!
GeoffreyCaruana It wasn't always the way though. Well, at least not here anyways. It's a shame that people feel the need to divide and divide again. Should be coming together, we're stronger as a whole.
Thank you for posting this, I totally agree with this article, you don't have to love someone's car because of the way they did it, but show them respect and appreciate it for what it is, they put work into it and it's their car not anyone else's, so no one else has the right to thrash their car or judge them for their car
DaveT Paddy McGrath Slappy_Pistons You can also add 'on fleek' to the ever growing list of things I don't understand.
I can relate and agree with this. Too often people want to be noticed and want their opinions seen and heard, but simply hitting a "like button" doesn't get you fame or glory, you're 1 in many so to be noticed you must comment which is why more often than not and I see I on these comment threads everyday, the comments are often negative.
Here in New Zealand the car scene has turned to shit, The Tuners long to have Meets like the Rodders but cant understand why the vibe isn't the same and the Police wont allow them in the same way.
Rodders share their passion. A Belair owner will compliment another, ask them about his or her issues with the "thing the had problems with" the Generations now only want to be faster, lower, wider or better than the next guy so everyone sits in their cars trying to look tough telling their passengers why their car is better. A Car Meet is just that.. a "meet" to meet and discuss, make friends even.. I often approach people at meets and they just stare you down like they have something to prove, which in turn brings bad vibes and soon the boys in blue come to "check on things".. it's a godamn shame.
Paddy McGrath DaveT Slappy_Pistons I actually have no idea what that means and refuse to Google it.
It seems to generally be used as a positive but that is about all I know.
For the most part my other hobby (bmx) keeps me fairly in touch with youth and their slang (here I am talking like an old fellow at 30) but that particular phrase has not crossed over.
Paddy McGrath FunctionFirst tyvm sir.
FunctionFirst Paddy McGrath He's on instagram at @flipsideauto if you want to see more.
ethosVeritas_Z32 You said exactly what I was thinking - right down to the definition of opinion.
Paddy McGrath Thanks for this great read, I hope things get better because we're only hurting ourselves in the long run.
If we took the time to question why something was done instead of immediately bashing, we might understand, learn something or at the very least have some background information for a proper conversation. My issue is with people that think that only their opinion matters.
Paddy McGrath FunctionFirst That rear diffuser tho...
FunctionFirst Paddy McGrath Cool, right? It's just the fins that attach to the standard diffuser. Really neat and simple addition.
Paddy McGrath FunctionFirst Do want. Maybe a big wang too.
Preach it brother! This is the generation of instant gratification. They want the likes; they want the attention and they want it NOW. At the end of the day I do not understand why they can't approach it from a simple mind set: to each their own. There will always be people who disagree with your taste so why judge? Just appreciate what you can and leave be. While everyone feels the need to be heard, the internet is so saturated people find in necessary to shout in order to get the attention they crave.
It is for this reason I have surrounded myself with like minded people. My circle of close car friends shares the likeness of my taste is builds: Quality > Quantity. I have no time, energy or patience for the fickle, self-professed know-it-alls that don't know their ass from their elbow.
Spot on. One of the downsides of The Internet, it seems. For every positive gearhead who wishes to share knowledge and lift up a fellow gearhead, there are at least a hundred waiting in the wings, ready to spit venom and unleash Hell.
RMutt Ditto. All my car friends are great humans first and foremost. They've even accepted my small German hatchback into their stable of Japanese cars.
I agree with most of the stuff on here.
This is especially relevant when events are involved. As aircooled Volkswagen enthusiasts, we often drive either an aircooled Beetle or Bus to classic car events where we're berated because some American muscle car drivers don't feel our Volkswagens count. The naysayers love to make us feel unwelcome, whereas the husband and myself share an appreciation for most vehicles old or new. Even within the Volkswagen community there are huge rifts between the aircooled and the watercooled folks. Once a gentleman told me that my 1982 Diesel Volkswagen Rabbit Pickup wasn't a VW because it had a radiator. Just because something isn't your "thing" doesn't make it wrong or undesirable.
That being said, we have been VERY fortunate to have found a couple of different groups and clubs who embrace the value of community when it comes to the common love of cars, and we stick with those folks. We all even have weekends where we bring our cars to a centralized spot, camp out together at night and work on each other's cars all weekend. No money involved whatsoever. Bring your parts, your tools, and your appetite. THAT is what it's about to us.
And I can talk with experience having been treated like shit in the past by people who didn't realise what efforts were put into doing stuff!
Never argue with idiots. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. If people are hating just ignore them. Everytime you engage them it just reinforces their behavior.
Jagdroach True that, but I sometimes can't help but call someone out on their shit, especially if they're trying to bully or intimidate another person. Killing them with kindness and logic is my preferred method.
Hear hear.
Sadly though, I fear you'll be preaching to the choir. A particular skill of the people you're referring to is assume that they aren't the ones causing the problems in the first place. This plea for a little sense may unfortunately go right over their heads, and they'll continue on as before.
I'm laughing at all these negative comments. Chances are if you don't like this post, it probably applies to you lol!
ethosVeritas_Z32 While that definition is true, I think what Paddy was getting at was that an opinion based on nothing whatsoever isn't worth the pixels it's typed in.
The problem isn't necessarily people having an opinion - even a daft one with no basis in reality - it's people believing that their opinion holds equal (or greater) weight to everyone else's, even if it's patently ridiculous. That's where facts, experiences and thoughtful debate comes in - those are what make opinions worthy of being considered.
ethosVeritas_Z32 "but i think if we could put that aside as a car community and at least try weed out ignorance with kindness rather than just bashing people who don't know any better everyone would be better off"
Dude, this quote made me create an account just so I could agree with you. I'm turning into the old guy that looks down on all of the kids for having horrible stance and the like, but I know that attitude isn't good. You're spot on with that statement. We could all benefit from that logic.
Being a lurker in the community until recently I hate the terms "Self-Entitled Generation" and "Millennials". Both terms make me feel dirty since I'm technically part of that generation that everyone loves to hate. Which could be why so many of my peers tend to lash out. But that aside the car and motor/gear/petrol head community is the last place you should air that dirty laundry.
BrandonPetersen I was thinking that myself, but my momma always said too keep my damn mouth shut.
Hey...a note to those butthurt few here... EVERY youngest generation was the worst generation in the eyes of those who came before. When you get old and crotchety, you'll likely look at the youngins and think they are all hooligans, too. Human condition. Don't take it personal. You are you, not your generation.
But you can't really tell what a person is feeling unless you face them face to face ! Just saying is all!
Personally, I hate the babyboomers waaaaay more then I do youngsters, least the young have an excuse for their silliness.
antonyingram I agree with you. Those kind of guys can in fact read this post and agree with every single word, but they probably won't realize what they're doing wrong, beacuse in their eyes, it's not wrong. And that's very sad. As Paddy tried to say, it hurts our family.
As a millennial I find it unfair to generalize our entire generation. I know many gen. X people who assume any Japanese car is a "ricer". I was fortunate enough to get a classic Plymouth project car as my first that I have put countless hours into with my dad. Even though I have been raised in an "all American" family some of my favorite cars are 240z, supra, gtr, ect. And I have learned to respect everyone's choice of car.
Preach Mr McGarth. Preach!
It's not a problem that just exists in the young though, proper actual car shows scare the life out of me, I've been laughed at for questions I've asked at big shows before to older gentlemen, I'm a late adopter of four wheels so my age throws people when I ask "stupid" questions.
FunctionFirst I love RX-8s, but that's just my opinion (which stinks) ;P
love this article.
I'm very opinionated. But from time to time I catch myself trying to bite my tongue a lot more, especially as I get older. At the same time, I think it makes the culture more competitive. Criticism and negativity are separated by a thin line, and it's not necessarily what you say but how you say it.
I personally think stance is corny, but I learned to realize there is a place for it in racing, especially drifting. I hate the honda game, only to see a friend's ek hatch destroy an evo. I hate AWD, drove my best friend's STI and loved it. I wouldn't buy one, but I grew to respect it a lot more. As our culture continues to become more mainstream, the younger and younger newcomers get. I think we can take a step back and realize it's a sign that car culture is growing far larger than it was a decade ago.
All my opinions from when I first got my license might still be with me, but I am far more open minded. And as each newcomer continues to grow older as I have they will realize that there is a balance in everything, and we should give them time to mature. We should appreciate the fact this community you speak so highly of is growing.
Like the OP said, this is "a community which transcends gender, race, religion, language barriers and pretty much every other obstacle we as a species have imposed upon ourselves." No community is perfect. People are never going to meet eye to eye on everything. The beauty is that we can have our own opinions within our culture without the need for bombs or war.
i have not spend one day as a stancer, but we must except stancers as real human beings for a change and let them do there strange offset activities
Great article :).
May be it comes from me being non native english speaker but I don't see this article is about the "generation" thing (btw, who are those "millenias" you talk about?) but the fact that some forget that we are car enthusiasts after all.
We all have our personnal tastes but what's the point of being rude or an asshole with those who don't have the same taste than me?
There have always been (and always will have) "fanaticals" (in the wrong meaning of this word) who think that their way in the only good (as we can read in the comments).
I think that internet just give them a wider audience (+ the keyboard warriors and others trolls).
You're absolutely right and i perhaps didnt make it clear/focus on that aspect. No one's opion should be placed above anyone elses really...i have caught myself thinking "geez that mod is stupid" or tacky or what have you. But everyone should be free to express themselves. I will say i really admire Japanese culture in this respect, not that i know what its like from the inside but jus looking at all the content here they really embrace individuality and just coming together as car people in a seemingly nurturing way and sadly im sure if some of those same builds were dnen somewhere in the western world they may be shunned in the way Paddy describes in the article, actually im pretty sure a search of the comments on some of the features would prove the point.
Did we just become best friends?
A4999 I'm a millennial too, so don't take it personally. I'm more than aware that there's good amongst us.
afroguy
Robbie1518 Yup, that's why you should be polite. Makes it easy to back down if you've mis-interpreted something.
MattySXE
MattySXE YEP!
@turbo BEAMS ae86 I've another cool '86 for you shortly, brother
Thanks for responding, I'm sure you are busy with 190+ comments. I meant no offence to you, I respect you as a photographer, your history of cars you've owned and I think you write some of the best articles on this website.
TarmacTerrorist Story of my life. In the famous words of Taylor Swift, just shake it off.
A4999 You're very kind and I certainly didn't take any offence
A4999 He already addressed that in the article.
RobertWerk I'm part of the same generation as you too, but it's a conversation worth having.
therealnecroscope That's right. Demographics are not destiny.
Millennial refers to people who are in their mid 20's or younger
A4999 Wikipedia defines it as anyone born between 1982 & 2004. Which is a pretty broad group.
Wow broader gap than I thought
Great read. Maybe something I should show the guys that make fun of my 2000 Civic Coupe. They laugh at it, "Oh look it's so slow" or "Look at that ricer!" . Quite frankly, I don't give a damn. You might make fun of my Civic but I love it to bits. I love driving it, sitting in it, looking at it and spending hours on ebay finding that awesome part i've always wanted.
You might call it a "Piece of Crap" but hey, Its MY "Piece of crap"
(FYI, it havent even done any major cosmetic enhancements. It's just black with a new exhaust and 17" black rims)
Now get off my lawn
@Militancy Sadly, you're about four hours late with that joke
Dynomight Bingo. It doesn't matter what you drive, it's what's in your heart.
Speedhunters Just as I was going to bed. THANKS. :p
No arguments here haha
Amen Paddy. Thank you!
Ehh, one gets slow in their old age.
I don't disagree. I believe the issue is more about access. It's easier than ever to buy parts that bolt up and look/work well. When the community was more about building something, or even dropping a large chunk of money to pay someone to build something, there was a comaraderie built by that shared pain. One didn't laugh at someone's choice in [part] because they knew how much it work it took. And even if it was silly, hey, we were just glad to see something different. But now I'm getting into a whole different part of grandpa territory known as "back in my day"
Speedhunters Yes and no. Trolls can be any age (ask a Harley guy about Honda bikes). We agree that we can all be better for the hobby tho.
Paddy McGrath GeoffreyCaruana I agree, the connection I make with people is as much fun as building something cool, hence I prefer to talk and be friendly with everyone but stay away from 'cliques' formed in clubs.
Sometimes having a common enemy makes everyone stick together, at the moment enthusiast are sticking together to petion for a proper race track
therealnecroscope FunctionFirst Yup.
I drive a lowered truck in a small town in the country where all that is seen are lifted trucks. Just imagine the hate lol. Back on topic though, I can see all this happening to my little brother. He is 16 and has worked hard to buy his first car being a 05 vw mk4 golf gti. He doesn't hate on peoples builds but he is starting to get that "scene kid" look and attitude. I, his older brother (20yrs old) am trying my best to help him. To get him off his high horse. To teach his how to modify his car, not based on what everyone else thinks, but purely on what he wants to do with it and what he likes. I'm Motorsport oriented with my cars but he wants to stance his. I didn't tell him to not do it. What I did was teach him how to look up info on his car so he could learn about what is needed to reach his goal. What we have to do as a whole is to help each other out
Reuben Rodriguez Good on ya, kid (I call everyone kid). You're what's right with everything
I see it as being too broad. People who were born in 86 are way different than people born in 96. It all has to do with the age kids are introduced to the Internet and social media. I was born in 89 and I didn't have Facebook until high school. Kids now are on Facebook and tablets before the age of 5.
I had books in school. Kids born in the 2000's don't have high school books anymore it's all on a tablet or laptop. It's kinda crazy to think about.
Technology is killing us!
Well said sir, well said
Good points, but it is only half the story.
Constructive criticism is not evil and all of us should learn to accept criticism rather than re-actively fighting it.
So yes, people should learn and understand before commenting, but conversely people should harden up and accept that not all criticism is a personal slight.
Paddy McGrath true that.
I never really mentioned in my initial post that I loved reading this despite that little nitpick, and that i totally agree with the sentiment behind everything; even as someone who was born in the middle of the generation in question.
rook56 Keyword being Constructive.
Paddy,
it seems we very much think alike - I can relate to a lot of how you come across in your articles, and this latest one is not an exception. It is perhaps generalized a bit much, but in the overall I very much agree.
I will be the first to admit that I've been guilty of such behavior in the past as well - however, I like to think I've learned from it. A recent example would be where a friend of mine posted his car for sale in a Facebook group. I felt absolutely disgusted by all the comments that attacked him personally for how he modified it and what price he set it at. Not to mention that the people in the comments started to get into flame wars with each other and both sides sounded like complete pricks. A while ago, about two years or so, I would've probably joined in. Today, I can just shake my head at it.
Our lives are short - we should consider ourselves lucky that we have found a passion that we can embrace. Instead, it seems that most of the current generation of car people spend their time insulting each other and being unpleasant persons in general. To say it with a popular meme - ain't nobody got time fo' dat. I'd rather just kick back with a beer and share in people's enthusiasm about their cars. After all, it's what makes us all excited - why should we introduce negativity into it when it is something we should enjoy?
Anyways, long story short - great article.
Even when an opinion is egregiously hostile or negative, it can't be right or wrong, nor can it have value, until someone chooses to listen to and/or react to said opinion. Every opinion is therefore equal- that is to say, worthless- until it is prescribed worth by someone on the receiving end. Everyone is, in my opinion, entitled to their opinion. *steps off philosophical soapbox*
That being said, the willingness to see a different point of view, or to keep an open mind to other's opinions, is crucial to the health of our community. I've encountered narrow mindedness far too often in my local community, so I absolutely respect what you have to say.
rook56 While agree with you, constructive criticism is good. The types of comments, I think he's talking about are not constructive at all.
There is always at least, one comment calling a feature car, hideous or ugly. Or comments saying how they wouldn't of put those wheels or that body kit or that engine swap if they built it.
The first type just doesn't belong and is plain disrespectful. The second type is slightly better but it's still not great. Someone has taken their hard earned time and money to build it just the way they wanted. If it's not your taste that's fine, go out and build your car the way you want to. But don't attack someone else's pride and joy, just because it's not what you like.
Well said
This has nothing to do with the millennial generation, or any specific generation for that matter. Do you think this is a new occurrence? The phenomenon you're describing has been happening since the beginnings of society and shared interests. It has been becoming more prevalent thanks to the internet, but what do you expect with an open forum that you can participate in anonymously? The internet comes with positives and negatives jut like everything else. Having thick skin is a valuable trait, and a necessary one if you don't want to live your whole life with this bitterness you're displaying.
This isn't a case of "those damn kids ruining what I love," it's just people who don't like to keep their opinions to themselves. This isn't a new thing. You say people aren't entitled to their opinions, but they are. You can not control what someone else thinks, no matter how right you may be. Holding your own beliefs and thoughts is a basic human right. What people are not entitled to do is contest someone else's opinions without being willing to discuss it and possibly change their own.
Again, some people are just going to be assholes. You can't change that, and it's not a specific trait to any one generation.
Hmm. This is super biased. Can we not just agree their are major dick weeds from every generation?
I finally see some RX8s, and they are in an article saying some people are dicks.... 8(
8)
Speedhunters truth and s3mag has been saying this for along time. start with being diverse with features.
@MarkVIILSCFBRX7 rook56 I completely agree about the first. Not sure about the second type of comment. I can only think how I would feel if someone said that about my car and I honestly think I'd be OK with it. What if they had an awesome idea for an improvement? It is understandable to not like those kinds of comments, but maybe you can get a new slant on your pride and joy.
ps. Thanks for the constructive rebuttal - shows not everyone has to agree.
very well said and being 16 and coming from a family that has taught me to respect others and their opinions and preferences, I agree 100%
You have stumbled upon the great human nature of all time...at least the nature of being extraordinary/ mysterious ,indifferent from others. Maybe its a fun way to blended in....you know when you, me and rest of the world wake up one day, go to work or to school...and that feeling comes and you said to urself ' what the hell iam doing here?!' and decide to take a personal day off.
The Alpha generation tot they could fly n hv super-mutant powers.
Been breathing in this world almost sixty years now. See articles like this every now and then. Back in the sixties my older brother was in 'Nam and he had two subscriptions to Hot Rod magazine. One went to him and the other went home so he'd have every issue when he came home. He did come home and was always involved in some sort of racing. Drags for a while then he got into dirt track. through all those years some schmuck always gripes about a group that is making everyone look bad. They wanting to change this, they do this differently, they wear sunglasses when they drive and when they have an accident all our rates will go up. (Yes that was out there for awhile) But the one griping makes so few noteworthy points and then tells us this, "When you’re raised to believe that only your opinion matters, you immediately remove any opportunity to learn from your life. " Then a paragraph down says this, "But surely everyone’s entitled to their opinion? No. Nobody is entitled to an opinion unless you can back it up with facts, experiences or legitimate and thoughtful debate. " So I'm back where I started. The author was looking in the mirror and scolding himself. Just the same old same old. Just get out there and have fun. If some killjoy comes along.....handle it. I spent many a weekend covering asphalt on two wheels. Had friends that rode and they were decent folks. But there are times when there's nothing like the wind in your face and no voice in your ear or light in your mirror. Never needed a group to ride and still don't
Slow fade.
I've noticed that the trolls tend to hide behind screen names which afford them a layer of anonymity. Sort of like how the jackasses in mobs who are wearing masks are the ones burnign cars and throwing rocks at the police.
Not the ones with their faces plainly visible. Anonymity seems to show who people really are. It shows how they'd act if no one was watching. They are cowards who are afraid of their own cowardice...
All my online names are what you see above. Facebook, Twitter, this page, YouTube, etc. In online forums I'm JetBlack but I add my real name to the profile section. It keeps me honest and makes for a politer internet if anyone can call you on the phone, or in the case of the kiddies, talk to mommy and daddy about what junior's been up to.
"The fact that you or I could go anywhere in the world and find a
like-minded individual and start talking (or pointing and smiling if
language is in the way) passionately about automobiles is an incredible
feeling."
THIS!
stumbled onto a smal local car meet in a small town one night when I was traveling in Thailand. Within minutes I got offered a beer and some fresh noodles eventhough no one spoke a word English. But with hands, feet and pictures on our cellphones we somehow all spoke the same language, that of car enthousiast. They showed me all the mods they made to their cars while i took a bunch of pictures and spent the next couple hours just chilling around the cars without anyone actually talking.
Needless to say it was a great experience of what being a car guy is al about!
At 23 I guess I'm in a minority, I can look at stance builds and
enjoy them just as much as track/race builds, I can look at american,
euro and japanese builds and like all of them, I'm not a brand whore. . .
.and instead of being a complete ass and saying something's just "no
good", I'd rather say "respect the work involved but personally I would
have [whatever]" I don't know if it's because I've been raised around
cars, or because I work on cars for a living but that's just how I am.
.
. . .and I always find it difficult if I'm at a show/meet/whatever [and
this especially applies to the UK VW scene], talking to someone who I
feel should be a proper car enthusiast and they seem to know nothing
about anything other than. . . . . .what some shop did to their car.
It's like. . . .great, you have a car but did you even do anything to
it? Are any of the modifications done by yourself or did you just get a
car on finance and pay someone to fit an air ride kit and some wheels?
Wow, I thought many of this "problems" never be addressed!
Ok hardly ever comment anything related to cars or bikes, or ever post anything related to my build, yet my opinion and ideology has never changed, and I'm glad you literally took some words I have remarked before in both scenes. My respectsU0001f64f and this only gives me hope, that maybe someday we can switch around the scene into a positive atmosphere, where regardless of your taste we can appreciate anyone for what they are and for what they build. Amen! -OlgaSaldivar
Paddy, this is the kind of shit I deal with in the military and the car world. My car garners so much hate and shit talk its not even funny. What? Aimgain and limited edition Volk Racing on a hybrid? Suspension and wheel gap that looks stock? Tail of the dragon competing with cars that are turbo charged and set up for autocross? I don't get it. You shoulda just gotten x y and z and swapped in a 2j or ls and slammed it to the ground with -15 camber on my parents dime.
I'm sorry that my car is faster than yours on the dragon. I'm also very sorry that I get 45mpg to and from the road trip there and back. <^> (-_-) <^>
Patrick Yun At least you don't drive a MINI. I catch hell from all my military buddies on a daily about it. At the end of the day though when I get in my car I smile more than they do in their beige-mobiles.
I somewhat agree with this, ive built my car how i want and to me thats all that matters, now when i see a car with mods i find distasteful, i do think to my self "not what i would have done" not out of being a self entitled douche, but for the simple fact i dont like it, and i dont think i have to back up that opinion with an argument or facts, cars are about personal expression. Appreciate other peoples cars, respect the effort they put in.
Paddy, I'm going to be quoting you so much in the coming weeks. Brilliantly written.
You're actually one of those being referenced, sir. "But personally I would have... [xyz]."
That's exactly it. The author doesn't care what you'd have personally done. You didn't do it. That's that narcissism in which one feels their interpretation of another's efforts somehow merits the attention of others.
It doesn't. And that's what is on the discussion block here. #irony
It's super easy to say this is an issue with millennials, to call us the "self-entitled" generation when that incredibly popular stereotype is reinforced over and over again in social media, mostly by people who aren't millennials and don't understand what the sample mean even looks like. It's also incredibly easy to forget that these millennials with terrible attitudes were raised by baby boomers and Gen Y, and that's where they learned it from.
I don't know how many times I've heard things like, "Yeah, well my little corvette I used to have back in 75 would smoke your little jap econobox" or "too bad it's got a 4-banger in there, it'd be better with a Chevy small-block or something, you should swap it out" from a guy who hasn't turned a wrench since 1992. I've caught just as much negativity from people over 35 as I have from those 25 and under, almost entirely based on the fact that I enjoy different things than them, and I should have done it differently, specifically how they would have done it (sound a bit familiar?).
Being an entitled asshole is not a thing that is unique to the millennial generation, and people need to stop pretending like it is.
Agree with almost everything in this article. The dipshits whose opinions are limited to "V8 - sux kthxbai" are what are being referenced, and directed at the younger generation because most simply don't have the experience to explain why, they just know that all the other kids who they think are cool (and most likely don't even have a car) said it before them and therefore, they get to be cool for a second as the 1st one to say it. However, its quite a bit more convoluted once you get down to the why of things.
Why are they like that? How did they get like that? From US. Our parents, our brothers and sisters, OUR GENERATION showed them the way. They are shown a world of instant gratification(raised on TV commercials), assigned no responsibility(padded and coddled, protected from any harm during childhood), taught to pass tests (instead of learning knowledge) etc. It's what we've left for them.
In many ways I do feel bad for the Millennials. They didn't ride a BMX bike in a dirt lot with slip-on Vans and torn Levi shorts trying(and failing) to jump three trashcans while dad slowly went for the band-aids without setting his beer down. They didn't get to wait by the mailbox every first week of the month, aching for the next Thrasher magazine. having a question and needing to go out and FIND the answer. They were bottle-fed the world's entire wealth of human knowledge and experience, conditioned to have the attention span of moths, told they have no future and never taught how to create their own.
Do you wonder why we get comments like "NEEDZ MOAR LOW" or "V8's r stupit unless its a UZ then JDM(gasp) <3<3<3"?
Porthos1984 Patrick Yun I will never ever talk shit on minis again after facing off against one on my local touge....that thing handed me my ass.
Maybe if children have a disciplined upbringing again, they won't grow up to be spoiled self-entitled brats.
Eg. I spoke to a school and kindergarten teacher and they aren't allowed to use the word "No" anymore, nor are they allowed to get the children to form any kind of structure, like lining up in a row, seating allocations etc.
Some bullshit about they need to explore and develop their minds on their own, find their own way.
It's not just car culture affected. This self-entitled generation is spreading like wildfire in all aspects of life.
What's the matter with discussing different build ideologies? The main problem is people can't respect shit for whatever reason. If you can discuss what you would or wouldn't have done and why or why not in a civilized manner, then why not? Its not so much a problem of narcissism as it is the need for people to shit on others efforts to make themselves feel better. People should be able to express their opinions on things so long as they realize that different people like and do different things and you have to respect that. If you can't manage that simple task, that's when you need to just keep quiet and move along.
Well written!! Thank god someone who has the capability to reach thousands finally said what has been on our minds for years!!!
this is what i think when someone asks why id wanna slam or build my Kia. Why not its what i want to do.
tunerguy21 agreed, I see no problem in saying "I like it, but I'd have painted it red" that's my opinion, I'm not asking everyone to care about it, if you don't like it what does that matter? it doesn't because I'm just a guy on the internet.
NoPar It depends on how the line is delivered.
if it's "This is not my cup of tea, but can totally appreciate the amount of time and effort that went into this build" then I think its ok. I guess you could argue the "if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all" which is fair, but at the very least while the person may be passing judgement, they've at least had the respect to acknowledge the amount of work required to build the car, which is nice to hear regardless.
if its 'lol ur car is shit fgt y even bother wif da stok motor just ls swap it smh' then its not ok....
I don't think everyone should be expected to like every kind of build, at the end of the day a lot of what we do to our car's can be classified as 'Art' and is therefore subjective. It's the assumption that "my art is better than your art" is what Paddy is referring to here...
Lachlan21 They key here is "i think to myself"
Noone expects everyone to like every car build ever. But at least have the respect to keep pointless negative comments to yourself
tunerguy21 I think the reality here is that I'm saying "I" prefer it red, I'm not saying you "should" have painted it red, which is the difference between needless criticism and opinion.
David, you touched on the problem. Back in the day, before the Internet, the only way you could tell someone what you thought of their car (their girlfriend, their looks, their politics) was to their face. You owned what you got in response, from being ignored to a broken nose. Now, people can spout off all the time without consequence. And they do.
pmcgphotos You are dead on with this. Thank you for writing it.
I don't mind people doing what they want to their cars - what I DO mind, though, is the proliferation and positive reinforcement there is for using cheap knock-off parts or just the poorest of the poorest build quality junk just because they had to do SOMETHING to the car. Why is there no shame in buying the cheapest junk, or giving money to people who've blatantly copied a product? Like, it's almost the cool thing here. I'm not talking about say, $1500 knockoff's of some $10k wheels - I'm talking about like, companies like Raceland coilovers - shit thats absolute garbage and does EVERYTHING worse than what the stock suspension does. Hell, the market has been taught that coilovers are supposed to ride like shit - no, only shit coilovers ride like shit, QUALITY coilovers can ride just as good as stock, and still do everything they're supposed to do better.
Oh, and debadging - I know some do it because they honestly like how it looks without the badge. Thats cool, nbd there. But the people who debadge a 323 because they feel embarrassed that ti's not an M3? WTF is up with that? Why can't people just be proud of what they DO have?
EvanShanks Speedhunters that was truly awesome
pr3p3hunna Speedhunters I usually don't share stuff like that, but that was well worth it.
EvanShanks Speedhunters I feel like that's one of those things that needed to be said, not even just in car culture but the world today
I never wrote this article and I'm not claiming that I did in voicing my opinion about it
"Rather than appreciating an awesome final product, they immediately turn it around into what they would have done to make it ‘better"
People should just care less about what others think, whether on the internet or in life, its your money, your car/house/phone/girlfriend/food/opinion/insertanythinghere... get on with your life. what does it matter if someone goes onto this website or another forum etc and writes some words? it doesn't. The reality is, you'll possible be angry about it for 5 minutes then you'll forget and move on or you may even think "that's not a bad shout maybe I will do that, if you don't want people to comment, remove the comment section?
I think it should be named "How not to be an elitist prick" rather than making it seem as though a certain age demographic is the cause of all problems.
If you want the self entitled generation you should look no further than the baby boomers. Their unabated greed and parenting has lead us to where we are now. They are the real culprits here.
rb25unicorn more like the balls
i23sonny the reason why they aren't is because if they would discipline their child, (by, say, spanking them), people would cry and scream that it is child abuse
D1RGE EXE this makes so much sense and its another reason why i don't want to be a parent
The parents of the self-entitled generation are as much to blame as the kids themselves. These are the mothers that park wherever they want in shopping centres because they believe they are entitled, these are the same parents that leave trolleys all over the carparks, even just meters from a trolley bay. They have brought up(or lack of) these children with any form of discipline or punishment and have handed them every iphone, ipad and gadget they could ever need to throw out their opinions on the world wide web. Before forums and the internet(gee I sound old), none of this garbage went on in the car scene. Kids and social media have more or less ruined it, and it's almost certainly going to get worse.
Hopefully the 80's babies that were the last to be punished properly before the world went mad with anti-smacking bullshit, and were the last to really grow up without phones and the internet will bring everything back into order. They are now having children and will hopefully have a different mindset to the previous generation that were all about quiet time, naughty corners and giving their children everything they demanded and telling them that their opinions matter.
drowning sounds like a response a self entitled would say...blame it on someone else.
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
dangina drowning I agree with drowning, the parents are at least partially to blame. How can they not be?
JakeSchmidt i23sonny The let them abuse(not as such). Not bash or whack, but a smack here and there does no harm. The whole can't form lines or sit in the same seat thing so they can explore shit is rubbish. The world has lost it's mind!
Spaghetti why are they leaving small trains 6 to 9 feet from the train bay?
StevieM Spaghetti Sorry, do I need to say Shopping Carts so you'll understand?
I am a part of the self entitled generation (born in the year 2000), a car enthusiast, and I feel ashamed to have such narcissistic, self righteous, uppity assholes in my same age range. My dad and I would go to a Cars and Coffee with his 2010 STi that, at the very end of it's life span, had 200+ cars attending, but the local kids around my age (15) and some of the younger people attending would leave their shit and trash all over the lot. That caused us to be kicked out, and a change of location. That new location is only a couple months old, and it's already dieing. My two most recent visits have only yielded 10-25 cars, and the majority of the people attending are the basically clones of the people who got us kicked out. We've already received complaints about the excessive use of vape pens for hell's sake. It's these sorts of people who need be taught how to wear hats correctly, to be told no for once, and to be taught a set of manners.
wistro12 I agreed with you up until "how to wear hats correctly." They're just hats, dude, people can wear them however the bloody hell they like.
Scrolling through these comments is making me want Speedhunters to put up some type of giant readers rides post. I want to see some of the cars mentioned here.
I loved this post and certainly agree with most of what you say, but however I disagree with this -
"But surely everyone’s entitled to their opinion? No. Nobody is entitled to an opinion unless you can back it up with facts, experiences or legitimate and thoughtful debate."
I'm very sure you don't need facts to back up your opinion, because that's the whole point of it. It's an opinion for a reason. If you like blue eyes, what facts can you back that up with? None, because it's an opinion!
Apart from that, I love your work, keep it up!
Mate, you're not much of a writer. Either work hard at it to learn the craft properly, or forget the social commentary and stick to car and event features.
Hahahaha man you're the kind of imbecile this article speaks out against!! Politely: **** off
Haycha3170 Exactly my thoughts!
@Cabrio16vt If you like reading poor writing, good for you.
Well said..This is probably the one thing that keeps me from going to car meets or car shows. Being in my 20's I hate to associated with these kind of people who are not really enthusiast to begin with and are really into cars just show off and use it to get attention they crave.
I'm not much of a reader but I thoroughly enjoyed this article. I whole heartedly agree with everything you have said and I feel you've explained one of the most pressing issues in the car community today in the best way possible. Keep up the good work!
Spaghetti JakeSchmidt i23sonny um its nothing to do with the physical harm it doesnt have to be hard to cause psychological damage. also the amount of stories I heard from my dad and any 40 plus adult is that sure the were disciplined but instead of avoiding bad behavior the just tried not to get caught, kids are gonna be brats no matter what. the reason you see kids involved is because events, meets, are more accessible through the internet, you don't have to be as passionate to find ways into the community anymore. hence we get asshole kids
1939ba Please share with us something you have so brilliantly written. As a web developer/designer for the School of Journalism at WVU, I worked alongside many great writers and content creators. This piece is in fact very well written, but of course that's just my opinion.
Jagdroach That would be cool.
pr3p3hunna Speedhunters Absolutely. We live in a very self-entitled world as a whole; this can absolutely be applied everywhere.
EvanShanks Speedhunters couldn't agree with this more
Spaghetti StevieM haha please translate for the Americans
This site has a lot of young fans. Some of them will be rude and selfish from time to time, but most will grow out of it. I find most of the comments here respectful and enthusiastic, just like the articles themselves. Keep up the great work!
smeck Nice story.
Spaghetti most if not all early-2000s bulgarian kids were grown w/o phones and with smacking
I wish the author had thought of some solutions to this problem. The only thing I read here was a long complaint with an intent on dividing the automotive community between those that are part of the "family" and trolls. Trolls which according to you are millenials and young car enthusiasts. Maybe we work towards including everyone and trying to educate this group that you generalized.
Also, the writer sounds self absorbed and manipulative. Maybe try a different writing style?
Your speaking of preference, not opinion. An opinion should be based on some facts.
I definitely agree with the points raised in this article, although it's not just the young people that are assholes in the car community, there are plenty of older people that can be complete assholes, you just have to look at some of the car groups on Facebook (the RX7 groups seem to the worst) so much hate that goes on in those groups. I think social media is definitely to blame for it becoming more common, people hide behind a screen and talk s**t about people and their cars, but would never have the balls to say it to their face, anyway that's just my 2 cents.
Mb84 in my opinion, it should be red, because I like red. Is that factual enough? Not all opinions need to be justified. Because they are damned obvious.
Mb84
opinionəˈpɪnjən/nounnoun: opinion; plural noun: opinions1. a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
Yo I like your article and I'll let you finish, but first; I'd put overfenders and 22"s and drop that stupid wang because wangs are for wangs but that's just my opinion.
Bad jokes aside; really well spoken Paddy, you hit the nail on the head. Thank you for not only addressing the problem, but doing so in a way in which to remind everywhere why we're here and to remain respectful of those outside our bubble. We gotta keep the petrol family strong as long as there's guzzolene to burn.
JoshuaWhitcombe RX7 groups are great, unless you're dropping a piston engine into an RX body :-p
Spaghetti 80's? Sorry, as someone who born in 1994 I hardly disagree with you. Its all about the social environment they grew up in and how your parents educate you more of a "age thing" At least if we are speaking from years before 1995.
Spaghetti 80's? Sorry, as someone who born in 1994 I hardly disagree with you. Its all about the social environment they grew up in and how your parents educate you more of a "age thing" At least if we are speaking from years before 1995.
Spaghetti 80's? Sorry, as someone who born in 1994 I hardly disagree with you. Its all about the social environment they grew up in and how your parents educate you more of a "age thing" At least if we are speaking from years before 1995.
Jason Marah JoshuaWhitcombe Or fitting a Rocket Bunny kit, or basically any other widebody for that matter haha
Thank you Paddy. I'm 24 and it's beyond frustrating to see people my age act like this. It's so childish. Honestly Speedhunters have been crucial for me and opening my eyes to the infinitely broad world of being a petrolhead. Before Speedhunters, I'll admit I was a bit narrow minded but being exposed to what actually out there is truly an eye-opener. My favorite builds are the ones where you can see that the owner is truly passionate about what he has created. That sparkle in their eye when they get to show the world their heart and soul in a machine that they connect with. That passion, I feel is missing from the majority of people out there but i feel SH managed to capture a good amount of it and is why i love this site.
Thank you Paddy. I'm 24 and it's beyond frustrating to see people my age act like this. It's so childish. Honestly Speedhunters have been crucial for me and opening my eyes to the infinitely broad world of being a petrolhead. Before Speedhunters, I'll admit I was a bit narrow minded but being exposed to what actually out there is truly an eye-opener. My favorite builds are the ones where you can see that the owner is truly passionate about what he has created. That sparkle in their eye when they get to show the world their heart and soul in a machine that they connect with. That passion, I feel is missing from the majority of people out there but i feel SH managed to capture a good amount of it and is why i love this site.
Thank you Paddy. I'm 24 and it's beyond frustrating to see people my age act like this. It's so childish. Honestly Speedhunters have been crucial for me and opening my eyes to the infinitely broad world of being a petrolhead. Before Speedhunters, I'll admit I was a bit narrow minded but being exposed to what actually out there is truly an eye-opener. My favorite builds are the ones where you can see that the owner is truly passionate about what he has created. That sparkle in their eye when they get to show the world their heart and soul in a machine that they connect with. That passion, I feel is missing from the majority of people out there but i feel SH managed to capture a good amount of it and is why i love this site.
That Cresta tho
That Cresta tho
That Cresta tho
First pic is wonderful!
Rest is black and white..
JoshuaWhitcombe Jason Marah Wow, that's a bit sad, really! I can't say I've noticed that, but I don't pay too much attention to the FD stuff on those pages!
JoshuaWhitcombe Jason Marah Wow, that's a bit sad, really! I can't say I've noticed that, but I don't pay too much attention to the FD stuff on those pages!
JoshuaWhitcombe Jason Marah Wow, that's a bit sad, really! I can't say I've noticed that, but I don't pay too much attention to the FD stuff on those pages!
I would have put wider wheels and more camber.
Hey paddy good article! Unfortunatly you're right and this group keeps growing.. They share the same passion but chosed the wrong path.. Maybe it is a question of education or a negative side effect of narcism.. In the end it's just sad when they personally don't have the capcity of accepting other opinions, or at least trying to understand other ways than yours.
Yes you can have all the money you want and be a nobody. Or you can be a nobody and have all you need... But in the end the most valuable currency is to have respect for yourself and the others, the rest comes on it's own.
Paddy you've sure stirred up a storm here!
I was brought up with a "If you have nothing good to say, say nothing at all" mentality and I genuinely think the successive younger generations are slowly loosing this for some reason or other.
Positivity breeds positivity!
Jason Marah JoshuaWhitcombe i've seen the same thing in the Z32 community when an LS gets dropped in where a turbo motor should be. It used to bug me but i can understand why people go that route...then there's the how-dare-you-defile-this-sacred-chassis crowd... people need to loosen up lol
If you don't at least enjoy learning about different and strange aspects of car culture (even if they aren't to your personal taste) or if you "only like brand Y, everything else is junk" or hatefully bag out someones choice of car, then personally I feel you aren't a real enthusiast. I'd like to see car cultures banding together more, especially as politicians and police forces, at least in Australia are hell bent on seeing us marginalized. God forbid anyone should have a hobby that isn't binge drinking in this country o_O
tl;dr rant.
Speedhunters great article! Couldn't have said it better!
my step-mom just bought a stunning green BMW 3 Series Convertible by work part-time using a laptop... read the full info here...---->> www.banknow54.com
For what it's worth, I'm basically a millennial. Take that how you will.
Every generation seems to complain about the upcoming one. The cycle always repeats. The new generation is always criticised by the older generation but don't seem to learn from it, so when they become the older generation they say the same shit about the new new generation .
It's a bit like how rock music was the devil's work and now it's video games that are threatening our children's lives. Same shit, different decades. People will always find a way to complain about the new generation, just like they'll find a new thing that is destroying the children. I aspire to not be one of those people.
However, I'm not going to just deny what you said is true, I think some of your points have merit to them.
I think the narcissism stems from parenting/environment, from social media and from, well, the fact that millennial are young and therefore stupid. That third one has always been there because that's how we are as humans. The second one, well that's also because we are humans and social media takes away some of the social barriers so we sort of switch off our inhibitions. The environment in which someone grows up and lives will affect how narcissistic they are as a person, but the other two factors mean that they'll let it out more.
Most people (and by us i mean human beings) have some level of narcissism and I think it's important to recognise it and actually be self-aware. Self awareness is a skill that in my experience, many people lack, regardless of generation.
That includes the person reading this. Yeah, you. And me.
Many people say "wow 90% of people are stupid/bad at whatever/blah" without realising that they are the 90%. They might read, most people aren't self aware, not realising that they are part of that group. That's you, the reader. It's me. It's pretty much everyone. This is something that I feel transcends generations because quite frankly I think most people (including myself) typically think that they are above average. Because the word average in society has negative connotations. WTF? Average should literally mean average, not bad.
On the topic of having justification for your opinions: I completely agree. Just because your opinion exists, doesn't mean it's worth anything. Back it up with evidence and logic. This is something that all people should know and is a problem that affects people in general, not just this generation. I reckon some of the politicians in my country and probably around the world would learn this. Look at the evidence first, then form your opinion. Don't form your opinion then try to justify it because you might have a shit opinion.
In regards to the people who say "I would've done this instead" instead of appreciating it.
There are many people who aren't millennials who say the same stuff. Sorry to repeat myself, but I think it's a people thing. A lot of people simply dont appreciate other people's tastes in a given subject I guess. You can appreciate something without enjoying it. It's like saying someone's music is shit, just because you don't like the genre, and that you'd rather listen to (whatever band you're into). Yeah sure, it's shit to you, but other people like it. Who cares?
sorry to go on a fairly unstructured rant/ramble
sorry for bad english it's not my strong point
tl;dr i think it's more how we are as people, it's just that the internet has allowed us to let go of some of our inhibitions and therefore some people become arseholes. also please read it i think i have some valid points. let me know if any of my points are shit so i can either better explain/justify it or change my opinion
There are a lot of comments that I want to respond to, but it's going to take some time. In the mean time, I just want to cover some bases and to re-emphasise that I'm perfectly aware that it's not *every* millennial nor is it exclusive to any one particular generation. I chose millennials because that's the group I've witnessed displaying these traits the most. I would agree to a certain extent that it's not entirely their fault, but that doesn't mean they - or anyone else - can have a free pass to do as they please.
I believe that the vast majority of people are good and I think the comments here show this. There are a few who may have mis-interpreted what I'm saying (I'll try talk to you individually) or are just offended because what I'm saying might be a little bit too close for comfort. Some people won't agree with me either and that's fine too.
I'm not a writer and it was a huge challenge to articulate this argument. But, I am a car guy and all I want at the end of the day is what's best for our community.
What an awesomely well written post! I feel exactly the same but have never been able to sum up the right words/sentences to explain what i think. Thankfully you have nailed it while informing a vast audience. Hopefully this may change a fair few peoples ways, and eliminate future negatives and criticisms.
Wicked Post Paddy!
Once you drop all the narcissism and take a step back and appreciate all the little things in life and not bitch and whine when you don't get your way. You will truly be happy and more importantly humble. Only you as a people have what it takes to make a difference. Now go practice what this article preached please. Because our culture (real car enthusiasts) is slowly getting worse and worse to the point that I no longer goto car meets from all the negative feed back and constant drama that seems to happen at just about every meet up I attend.
Jagdroach yes we need this!
All this article does is tap dance around the real issue and shuffle all the blame on "the evil ones." There has been two types of car dudes since the second car was built: insecure dudes who only care about the image, and dudes who don't care about the image because they do it because it's what they enjoy. Too many people in the world wide car community are only into it because they think it gives them some kind of image. Too many people think they deserve respect because they threw money at a car and then got covered in a magazine or are popular on a forum. Too many people demand respect and then go on rants like this because there's one person who doesn't feel obligated to bow down just because they were on page 13 of *insert magazine of your choice*. The problem with the modern car community is that it's more attractive to those who are in it for the image due to the growth of the internet. Instagram, Speed Hunters, StickyDilJoe, etc. are all guilty of contributing to this mindset.
People can't give opinions? If you don't want someone criticizing your car, don't post it on the internet. It's that simple. Don't put your car into public eye if you don't want to hear what the public thinks about it. Forumˈfɔːrəm/noun a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged. If you're incapable of accepting that people don't align with your thoughts, don't go on forums. It's that simple.
As someone who is very passionate about driving, I welcome criticism. I want people to tell me I suck. I want people to tell me I did something wrong. I want people to point out flaws. Why? Because it gives me insight on something that I might have overlooked, could do differently, or I just did it incorrectly. It's called growth, and you should be happy people care enough to help you grow. Instead, people just get pissed off and blame the "self-entitled generation" for being trolls or flamers or whatever term you want to use. Self-entitled? The only people who are self-entitled in this community are those who think they are beyond criticism cause they have a bunch of shiny parts on their car.
How about you be productive and write an article about that BS mentality instead of falsely accusing an entire generation of something they're not? Oh wait, you can't because the real self-entitled people are the ones who bring the viewers to your website.
Oh and the next time you want to accuse the millennium generation of being a bunch of self-entitled douche bags, I hope you remember that the millennium generation has been fighting an all-volunteer war for the last 14 years. How's that for self-entitled?
In the late 90's -early 2000's things like the flip-flop- trunk and crazy things like that were looked at as cool and unique, now everyone wants to blend and if you do a flip-flop - trunk then heads spin and the names start rolling. I miss when people weren't as jealous or close minded. :/
1939ba Yeah, well, that's just like, your opinion man.
@Tom wistro12 exactly. "Cock your hat - angles are attitudes". So said Frank Sinatra.
Spaghetti How old are these parents if not the "80's babies that were the last to be punished properly before the world went mad with anti-smacking bullshit"...?
FilthyFitment I need to let my mom read this U0001f44dU0001f3fd
@Ken Worse than debadging are the people who stick an M Badge or an AMG badge on something that's not full-fat. Not seen it so much with RS Audi wannabes though. Fact is, BMWs come from the factory debadged if you want them to. My Dad always has, and he's always buying the top ones.
Humility is very important in car culture. Who am I to tell you what to do with YOUR car? Now if you ask for my opinion I will gladly help. But most of the time it's best to let people live and learn.
Here is my example with my truck.
When I first got it I modified it based on what I was told in forums and what I liked as a teen[URL=http://s354.photobucket.com/user/reubencanyon1/media/DSCF0004-1_zpsok1as9lw.jpg.htmlIMGhttp://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r424/reubencanyon1/DSCF0004-1_zpsok1as9lw.jpg/IMG/URL]
Now in my 20s I have actually learned what I like and what I want to do so here is my truck now[URL=http://s354.photobucket.com/user/reubencanyon1/media/DSCF1175_zpshrfbjvpo.jpg.htmlIMGhttp://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r424/reubencanyon1/DSCF1175_zpshrfbjvpo.jpg/IMG/URL]
(Generally Speaking) that's how i look at American Import Scene sometimes , their's no warm welcoming to things that are foreign or different to them. But i 100% agree to this article cause , we see the different types of people that give their two cents on instagram. And usually most people trying to acquire E-fame for something they lack in real life and doing the most just to fit in which is quite sad and pathetic I can say there's a good amount of people that still do it for the love of cars. But we can only have so much hope , I'm sure they'll much likely have people that just want the fame and nothing more but eventually they will be weeded out.
Personally, I do get a bit frustrated seeing people comment on other people's cars saying "It needs to be lower" or "It needs to be higher" or "The owner should do this instead". How can they not realise that the owner has already built their car to the exact specifications that they want it... that's the whole point of having your own car, so that you can do whatever you want with/to it! If people are looking at offering 'opinions' like this, why not phrase them like, "I'd love to build one of these with a different engine so it would be better balanced" or "It would be great to see one of these with a higher ride height and chunkier tyres for a more race-inspired look" - offering positive, constructive feedback like this is actually meaningful and it comes off in such a better way.
At the same time, I feel like this has been an ongoing subject of debate in the car community for a long time, and as much as I hate accepting this, I think there are always going to be people with a poor attitude giving others the wrong impression of what the car scene is like. The key is just never taking these people seriously and being able to shrug it off. But also, I think the more of a positive attitude that you have, the less you'll attract these sorts of negative people. Seriously, who cares if people don't like your car the way it is. I would never let closed-minded or judgemental people stop me from enjoying what I love. You'd be silly to, right?
@JDM_Purist gotta love people who skip the text
Taryn Croucher Thank you for saying this!! Ugh. I have conversations about practical application of parts installs, ride heights, power, aero, etc. but when a random person says "DO THIS!" it drives me crazy. Could you imagine if every single person did the same thing anyway? Progression only occurs because people use their own uniqueness to build THEIR car and other people should pay attention not to judge, but to learn what works AND what doesn't. But experience is the best way to come to that conclusion. Not an internet warrior telling you what to do. I'm so glad this article was written. Thank you Speedhunters!
@XxX wait until these people play the need for speed game in collab with speedhunters! We'll have a new era of self praised "i know everything from these scene" guys....
@Koopa Troopa I don't think that this article reflects someone like yourself. You seem willing to have a conversation if conflict in opinion arises. Although you seem to take quite the offense to the "self-entitled" label. What gives if you don't mind me asking? You have to understand that when you put 10 more years or more into this life on Earth then you will be saying the same thing about the next generation. If you are so open-minded then you might understand this comes from experience and being something that was young not long ago but many things change very quickly as you go through your 20's and early 30's. Simply put, your generation does not have the experience and nothing is wrong with that. Just don't get so angry if you are so open. Do you really not no anyone like described above that could gain insight from this article?
I'll keep this short because I've commented and added my opinion to others' post but it's a catch 22. The ones that need to become open-minded will have the hardest time accepting the material above. I guess if it reaches a few then it has done its job.
jdmRob Simply put, some people only see black/white
Eduardo B The answer comes from self-awareness. From everyone.
Haycha3170 I would have to agree here. From a technical aspect there should be facts but looks can't and shouldn't be argued. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder right?!
turboboxer6spd Dude, I'm a few months from 30 =P I don't take offense to the self-entitled label, I just simply despise that label. It's a label created by people who are completely out of touch with pop-culture, yet still think they're relevant. In the Marine Corps, all you ever heard were older Marines complaining about "how these new Marines just don't know how hard the old Corps was." It was entirely painful to sit there and listen to a senior Marine completely dismiss the accomplishments and struggles of the junior Marines of today simply because he couldn't come to terms with the fact that he is no longer relevant to the modern world.
The people on car forums who generally give the "well it would be better if you did x or z" comments are typically younger people who are just living their car fantasies through you. There's no reason to get upset about what they post. When people post that stuff in my threads, I simply just say, "No thanks." And then I move on with my life. Honestly, I don't even find those guys annoying. The people who give me the biggest headaches are the guys who ask questions looking for a specific answer and then get upset when someone tells them something else.
This makes me sound like an old man (knocking on 30...) but seriously, the youth of today have no respect. At a local car meet recently, held at a local parts store run by a friend of mine, a young lad in his early 20's did a huge burnout in his S14 Silvia, despite signs and warnings against it.
We know this guy and when we asked what he thought he was playing at the response was "what? it's only a burnout, who cares!" - No respect and made me utterly ashamed to be 'car guy' if that's what we have become.
It's no different on the internet - everyone has an unqualified opinion about something.
Taryn Croucher Funny enough, I was reading Paddy's post, and started to think about your article from last year about abolishing the female car enthusiast (probably the most commented on article in Speedhunters history).
It reminded me of all the times I've seen people scared off from our collective hobby because of egos telling them what they "should" do. While I agree with Paddy that there are more of these opinions without experience, coming from our younger generation, they don't hold the patent on ignorance.
I pulled over a couple of weeks ago, because I saw a small SUV on the side of the road, with it's hazards on. I went to offer assistance, and the driver pointed out that I was only helping because she was a woman. I told her I was flattered that she thought my vision was good enough to tell her sex from 200 meters behind her car, as that is when I decided to help, and she wasn't discernible at the time from a grey haired Al Pacino impersonator. She laughed, and it released tension from her thinking this was a damsel in distress hero storyline.
The point is as a community, we need to respect one another, and respect ourselves. You can have your opinion, but be mature enough to recognize that slagging someone else for their craftmanship, or choices isn't the same as stating a constructive feedback.
Thanks again Paddy, for a thought provoking editorial. You should write for a living.
@Koopa Troopa turboboxer6spd So the question that I should have highlighted here was "Do you think that no one in the younger generation (or older generation that this should reach as well) will benefit from this article?" You know, not all reading material is directed towards every person out there but can still affect people in a positive way. I believe the man organized his thoughts well and was able to present something he was clearly frustrated with in a forum that he had at his disposal.
turboboxer6spd Would you like to help defend "my opinion is best" or support conversation of why "camber is life" might look good (opinion not shared by me) but if you want your car to be more functional then you can do "this, this, and this"? Increase ignorance or increase knowledge and conversation? Which has the most positive affect on our car community?
turboboxer6spd I think this article is entirely detrimental to the car community. All it does is cause a bunch of dudes with a completely warped view of reality to pat themselves on the back because their views are supported.
@eroticfanta I would assume that Paddy was commenting on the Millennials having a larger portion of this negative impact soley based on the content of the posts. I agree with you completely that there is the same issue in the Generation X, the baby boomers and even the pre-WWII parents, but you can pickup quite a lot in the nature of the comments made.
For example, the willingness to swear openly in a public forum is something that has only grown up in the last 5-10 years. Before that, people would rarely make commentary openly saying that someone's work was dog excrement. They would be subtle, and say the work gave off the perfume of the tannery in the late afternoon.
Both say the same thing, just one has more of a Rosanne Barr bluntness than the other, (see, it shows my age even using that example).
So if you go back over the comments in the past few weeks, and look for the negative / hostile ones, could you guess the age group of the commentator? If you do this repeatedly, you can also find a trend. Generalizations is an aspect of economics, and how we come up with statistics in the first place.
On a side note however, as a parent, and a manager of employees, I will completely agree that the self-entitlement of the younger generations is well observed. I have had to turn down applicants for jobs because they were just too confident of their greatness, and have never been tested in life themselves. If it takes 6 to 9 months to train someone to do a job that they went to university for 4 years already, it's hard to get them to listen when they know everything.
I am still amazed and impressed by what I see and read though this website, and will continue to. I just try and focus on the intelligent discussions.
turboboxer6spd I had a really long post sharing stories and what not, but something happened and the comments box I was typing in disappeared. To paraphrase that post, I side with the support conversation. I really don't care what someone does with their car as long as they're not being a jackass on public streets with it. However, I lose all respect for people who have to justify and make excuses for why they do something. I don't understand why people can't just say, "Sorry dude, I'm not really into driving fast, I prefer it low and slow." Nobody who isn't an asshole is going to chastise that person for liking what they like, and honestly, I think there would be a lot less friction in the car community if people would just be honest.
Reuben Rodriguez Badass truck man! never seen one of these built to be honest and its sick!
I just wanna say thanks to all the commenters for making me feel young first off hahah Bu this is the exact reason i'm the kind of guy that kind of hangs on the side or in the back at meets, because there's no point in talking to a good amount of people anymore because everyone is close minded, it should be a scene of mutual respect not individual hate.
JamesHayward29 An early 20 something doing a burn out on a public road? What's next? Kids skateboarding on the sidewalks?! I'd hate to break your heart dude, but it has nothing to do with the youth of today. It has everything to do with youth in general. Were the Beach Boys in their 40s when Brian Wilson wrote Little Deuce Coupe, I Get Around, and Shut Down? Definitely not. The youth of yesterday, today, and tomorrow will always be driving like idiots. Blame their parents for not taking them to a teen driver's course taught by your local motorsports venue.
turboboxer6spd jdmRob Brilliant!
Agreed, the younger generation is weak and entitled...but our generation has thicker skin and doesn't let stuff like this get to them. The author kinda makes himself weak by writing an entire article that says his feelings are hurt from the bad words he sees on the internet.
Paddy mate you said it all! I am 24 years old, born and raised in Venezuela... No car culture, no government, no secure future in or out of state, but here I am with my name, my car, and reputation living a dream and respecting the ones who think like me and the ones who don't.
Thank God I watched a fast and the furious movie when I was 9 and that I start reading speedhunters
"life is to short to drive boring car" Bisimoto
@saintsteve It isn't just the younger generation. I have had the pleasure of experiencing car snobbery from many different demographics. It sucks when you have the old school muscle car guys explain to you why your car isn't a muscle car, or that it isn't a real whatever because blah blah. Old and young there are a lot of car people that are assholes. It doesn't mean anyone is weak, and it isn't exclusive to one group over another.
I have been in a custom business for a small amount of time. I get to pull off some amazing work for customers with big ideas. The sad part is when I'm finished and I post pictures of the project I spent months working on, you get that moment to share your experience with the world but you get that one type of person to talk bad about it. Some need to know this. I work hard. That's not my car or truck or bike but it's still my hard work. In 1 more day I'll be leaving the custom shop I have been doing custom body work and paint for 6 years for a job doing stock work on dealership cars.
I'm not leaving because the B.s. more money opportunity for my family. The custom car world is dying. And I've noticed everyone is a professional but they don't make money doing it.
N3...
@Koopa Troopa JamesHayward29 When I was 16 my dad taught me how to do burnouts, I was young he was old.
I see there is an ad here to help create rocket bunny / liberty walk kits. is this just a link to the store or is this a legitimate thing? I am designing my own currently for an rx8 since there isn't out and would kill to have that kind of opportunity.
Thanks very much. It's still a work in progress (will always be lol). I'm currently building a custom turbo kit for it. It has a 2.8 4 cylinder. No v8 here. Just being different and making it mine
Very presidential Paddy
Reuben Rodriguez Should be sweet when finished. I would like to see someone with the L33 5.3 trucks do something like yours.
Awesome read and well spoken.
Paddy McGrath i totally understand you weren't generalizing my entire generation. it was more of an agreement that the subculture of entitlement exists, and is very much so apparent in my generation of car enthusiast. if you want to call them that.
ekoshyun I mean, to be fair: They're hating on Millennials in the underground race scene, which has to be the worst subdomain possible.
Dilution of the car community to find a social in, rather than actually enjoying, or understanding culture is where I draw the line. I don't like to be understood as some asshat that can't conduct themselves or acts a certain way. I almost always refuse to be involve with brand specific clubs or cliques because of the problems that follow with. If you want to be identified soley by what your car looks like, or how it drives without being able to the scene as a whole. What are you really doing to the community? It's not all sunshine and rainbows. if you lose allstandards because you Invision a big happy family, you end up having to figure out why you're now socially stereotypesd by idiots. Not to mention how to fix it.
We fight for exactly what you are writing about.
Purpsdrvn.wordpress.com
I promise you won't regret it.
The way I see it, we as the car scene people, we do what we like, and it keeps us out of trouble, as myself I take it to heart cuz I grew up learning card from my wide drag racing grandfather, I learn muscle and found myself more involved in import tuning, I like all cars, wish I had them all, but I build what I got, I have a del sol and a 2403rd looking into a rx7, I'll continue to build and race. Its a part of me.
I whole whole heartedly support your message, but I feel need to point out that opinions are often subjective and don't necessarily need to be supported with fact. Trust me, i'm a track nut, my car is pure function over form, but if someone wants to build a slammed show car, can you really defend that opinion using fact? Factually building a car that's unusable is downright stupid, but if that makes a fellow petrol head happy who are we to judge?
I recently posted an article that managed attract a whole lot of heat, which I found surprising. Feel free to share your opinion of it with me: http://gtspeed.us/2015/09/24/dear-car-enthusiasts-heres-why-the-vw-emissions-scandal-matters/
Spaghetti dangina drowning because you are still responsible for your actions no matter what your circumstances are/were
Why would opinions need to be backed by fact? If I think your car is good-looking or crappy-looking, it is totally within all legal and intellectual rights to think and say so, and while it may be rude, it is "allowed" to say the least. Not that I would ever do this, but I would speak as if for the general public. Do you need to be offended if someone says so? No. Forgiveness is where the difference lies, not in enforcing morality through your public power in news articles. Blaming the Millennials for the prejudice and outspoken judgement that has been going on since the beginning of time is not only misunderstanding the problem, it's not even offering a viable solution. Please leave the "moral" articles out of the wonderful collection of articles on the cars and their owners that are gathered on Speedhunters. By spreading blame on a group of people who act poorly, you are endorsing it yourself as well.
True car enthusiast are people that embrace all sorts, and kinds of cars. Be it Domestic, Import, European. I grew up around all sorts of car guys and I can honestly say the respect given back in the days is not the same as today. Each build, love for the hobby, and culture is unique to the person who is building it or owns it. Opinions will be expected, but its RESPECT that is important. The most recent inspirational comment was from AKIRA NAKAI from RWB. " I build my cars because I enjoy them for me, and the customers that also appreciate them. There will be people that will not like them,but guess what, you noticed it. So that tells me that you noticed it in some way or manner. That is enough for me." That statement right there shows humility/humbleness. This is what counts!!! RESPECT,RESPECT,RESPECT!!! if its not for you then just look and keep your opinions to yourself. Positivity is everything! Negativity is not!
As an enthusiast many of us build vehicles for personal satisfaction and like many want to reaffirm it by having others like it too, BUT my problem isn't that others voice their opinions, its how they voice them. Society today has become very negative and rarely do you see someone leave a positive remark or suggestion. Its more doom and gloom. Take a moment and think when is the last time you shared a positive experience online (ex. Any type of service, out to eat, vehicle being worked on, doctors visit, etc). If someone has a bad experience, you best believe that the social media outlet is going to hear about it. Think about it...many have NEVER taken time to write a good experience online.
Robow556 True! Young assholes sometimes just turn into old assholes. I just pity the people that have to put up with them on a daily basis.
Word up. I still LOL at people that dis my fake wheels and yet my car looks better than theirs as a whole. On top of that they would never race it. U0001f602
Couldn't agree more Paddy. I don't know why but I'm always drawn more towards your articles, I think It's partly because we both hail from roughly the same damp corner of the earth but also because you speak the truth. I've been spending less and less time on Speedhunters recently, not because of the articles or photography (which is fantastic I might add) but because of the nasty comments section that I can't help but take a gander at. Often when I sit down and read through an article about a car I'm genuinely passionate about, such as an old Volkswagen or the recently featured Audi powered Cossie I find myself close to punching my computer screen because some narrow minded tool has completely put the owner or builder down with a nasty choice of words. I like to put it down to jealousy, but I suppose some people genuinely believe they're opinion matters more than anyone else. Keep up the great work Paddy, you're a genuine inspiration (no homo)
And one more thing, I often find the ones dishing out the negative feedback on their keyboard don't have the balls to repeat themselves to your face. I take great pleasure in this.
Couldn't agree more Paddy. I don't know why but I'm always drawn more towards your articles, I think It's partly because we both hail from roughly the same damp corner of the earth but also because you speak the truth. I've been spending less and less time on Speedhunters recently, not because of the articles or photography (which is fantastic I might add) but because of the nasty comments section that I can't help but take a gander at. Often when I sit down and read through an article about a car I'm genuinely passionate about, such as an old Volkswagen or the recently featured Audi powered Cossie I find myself close to punching my computer screen because some narrow minded tool has completely put the owner or builder down with a nasty choice of words. I like to put it down to jealousy, but I suppose some people genuinely believe they're opinion matters more than anyone else. Keep up the great work Paddy, you're a genuine inspiration (no homo)
And one more thing, I often find the ones dishing out the negative feedback on their keyboard don't have the balls to repeat themselves to your face. I take great pleasure in this.
rook56 While I agree with you to a point. It's how it's worded, for example:
If you say "The wheels are nice, but I think "insert wheel design" might look better", I would be ok with that.
But, If you say "The wheels are hideous, you should have used "insert wheel design" would look better. That I'm not ok with.
Ones constructive and ones just unnecessary. The use of a positive adjective vs a negative one. And suggesting the person, using words like think and might, instead of using words should and would, to tell the person. Make all the difference on the tone of the message and change how it comes across.
PS. No problem, Thank you for yours
JamesHayward29 Similar experience, kinda. I was at the Irvine Cars and Coffee awhile back, the OG one. Anyways, the average age of attendees that show up is probably around 30-50ish. This kid, probably about 18, started revving the crap out of his NA Miata as he was leaving. It's 7 in the morning, you're surrounded by a group of guys more than twice your age who own cars that have steering wheels more expensive than your Miata, and you decide to rev the crap out of it. Everyone either gave him nasty stink eyes or laughed at him and he eventually stopped because some older guy went up to him and told him he was embarrassing himself. That kid never came back. It was a very cringe-worthy 5 minutes.
NoPar You fail to have understood my point, it's a case of respecting the way someone has chosen to do something while also giving your own input/ideas.
If someone said to me they like my car but then go on to say they would have done something that I then consider to be a decent idea, I might actually think about doing it myself. . . . .whereas if someone just said to me "lol ur cars shit fgt mines better" they'd get told exactly where to stick their opinion.
If I say "personally I would have" I'm not saying "you should have"
Great article. You may not agree with what someone did to their car, but that's no reason to be an asshole about it. Maybe you guys should think about have a "dislike" button so that comments that are outright rude or offensive get hidden from view, like they do on Youtube.
Why do you post your work if you only want positive feedback?
This may not be you, but a lot of people only want to get positive feedback and rail against criticism. People cannot have it both ways.
CarThrottle Speedhunters page won't load
I agree. The older I get the more I am willing to dish out an opinion, positive or negative. The flipside is you get better at accepting criticism.
A lot of guys my age cannot handle change any more, which is prob why you get those comments. Im trying not to be like that.
In short, agreed!
This article relates to so much more than just to automobiles. It's bloody brilliant!
Being an 18 year old car enthusiast, I see it all the time in the group of kids my age. That being said, I respect anyone's build, ride, bike, whatever until they do something worth losing respect over.
You broke the internet.
Was this a problem before the interwebz? I'm too young to remeber...
The whole "built not bought" touting crowd could learn a thing or two from this article. I have seen people put down so many times because they chose to pay professionals to perfoem even just some of the work on their cars. Some people simply don't have the time/skills needed in order to do all the work on their own cars, and, believe it or not, there are actually people to don't like working on cars (crazy, I know). That being said, I am in no way trying to bash on people who perform all their own maintenance and modifications, and I have nothing but respect for anyone who does so. Personally, I enjoy working on my cars, but there are certain things that I would much rather have done by professionals in a fully-stocked shop. Nobody should be shamed for choosing to have professionals work on their car.
Amen.
Amen, Paddy.
I've said some pretty frank stuff regarding whether or not I approve of someone's mods to their car on here, and in person I'd only offer a negative opinion if asked for an honest opinion. I try to do it respectfully but sometimes my dislike of certain stuff gets the better of me. I don't mean to offend if the end product isn't to my liking but I can still respect the work put into it and effort/craftmanship. Lately I've just skipped articles that don't interest me.
I've always held the view that it's your car, you can do what you like to it and other's opinions shouldn't matter too much when it comes to what you drive. I've also held the view that respecting others is important too. I think a lot of readers on here (myself included) can get caught up in what we love and hold dear in regards to cars, and when we see something that is outlandish from what we love, we get a little loco in the comments section. Like what Taryn has said, commenting in a more solution-based way or constructive way would be better.
i'm really frustrated to read this article, man. if i wanted to hear someone talk trash about "millenials", i could go to any other website where cheap shots at young people are rewarded with groupthink hurrahs. speedhunters is the website i read to get away from the judgment, the labels, the stereotyping. cars of all styles are presented without pretense or disrespect. paddy, i love reading your fresh takes on european car culture, something i have no window into as an american. so this article is a letdown.
i keep hearing this theory about how kids these days are all raised to believe we're perfect, and as a result we suffer any number of personality defects. it's bull. many of us suffer the arrogance of youth, as did many in previous generations. many of us won't grow out of that arrogance, just as we all have that uncle who thinks he knows everything. to not recognize these things, and to attribute hostility in the automotive community - not a new thing *at all* - to young people, is a fantastic way to exclude. it's really disappointing to see that on a website like this, one i read specifically because it never excludes, and from an author i respect. for real, this is not new. "ricers" vs "dumbestics"? who invented the calvin-peeing-on-a-Ford-logo sticker? if the internet existed in the '70s, you'd find pages upon pages of middle-aged men arguing over the personalities of people who drove Triumphs versus people who drove MGs.
my generation is so consistently painted as selfish that we have no self-esteem (http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/sep/04/millennials-see-themselves-as-greedy-self-absorbed-and-wasteful-study-finds). fancy that for a group so widely derided as arrogant! read through any metric of how we actually are - our rates of donation to charity, volunteerism, founding of new businesses, engagement in communities and causes - and you will find nothing to suggest we're "worse" than our forebears. yet the trope is repeated again and again. it frustrates me to no end that the slandering of an entire generation persists in spite of mountains of evidence that we're basically pretty normal, but here it is on speedhunters.
i'm not going to stop reading the site, or be have a grudge against paddy, or demand that he retract the article, or even that he think about it. your opinions are your opinions. but if you post shit like this, i will stick up for my generation - all of it, every time. even the douchebags.
dude_bro To add to your point. If everyone built their own cars all by themselves then we wouldn't have all these sweet fab shops and tuning garages.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfODykKzmIY
John Evans Robow556 sounds real stinky
@Koopa Troopa MY MAN CHRISSSS WASUUUUUUPPPP!!!!
About the shit talking of other people's builds: If someone asks me for their honest opinion, I will give it. Don't get mad if I say something adverse to what you believe is cool or nice or dope, YOU ASKED MY OPINION. Now, people going around at car meets judging other people's builds talking out of their ass and being really disrespectful? Nha, I don't dig that - plus you asking to get punched in the mouth.
About the 'teenagers' bullshit: All I can say is HEY, we were all young, we were all dumb. Let's not act all high and mighty and get our panties in a bunch cause a 17 year old said your car needs more camber in the back. Matter of fact most kids that 'get into cars' on usually grow out of it and get into other things once past a certain stage, since being a 'car guy' it was just a fad they were following at that stage. The rest who stick to this hobby grow up, learn and mature - TADA! Become people like us who can follow cardinal rules of car meets, we KNOW FOR A FACT that doing a burnout like an asshole is NOT going to get you laid, and might have reached a point in our lives that we can fab a LOT of our own parts instead of buying.
About the 'buyer vs builder': BULLSHIT. BULLSHIT. BULLSHIT. People who can build things really pretty with their own hands and tool (like yours truly) need to fucking stop and slow the fuck down. WE HAVE A GOD GIVEN TALENT. Be humble if you can build your own shit. Do not look down on people who have to buy their car stuff. If they have the money to build something nice, HEY, kudos to them. You have the talent, they have the money. Lets work something out. But don't ever hate on players who can buy nice shit if you can build shit.
Thats all I have to say about this.
Yes.......
Gigg44 ja das hat man doch überall : und es wird immer schlimmer
dude_bro The "built not bought" crowd needs to be falcon punched in the balls. I've never once seen someone who uses that term actually do anything praise worthy. Oh wow, you bought some shiny bits, removed a few bolts, and then replaced a part. I bought a DC5 Integra Type R with a 290whp K24, Cusco LSD, 5.0 final drive, Ohlins suspension, etc from a friend who gave me a really good deal on it (can't buy a stock one for what I paid for mine) and I was ostracized from the local Honda community due to buying a "built" car as if that car was the only car I've ever owned. The funny bit is that I've done more work to that car than the dude I bought it from ever did. Hell, I'll be personally rebuilding the transmission as soon as that second gear finally lets go. Yet, I was bombarded with insults from dudes who think they "built" their cars because they installed a Spoon intake elbow and changed the wheels. Also, I've never once come across a "built not bought" type that didn't have a massive chip on his shoulder.
I really wish that we could establish a criteria in which one would be allowed to say they built their car. As far as I am concerned, the only dude I can think of that can say he built his car is the guy that built a Lamborghini Countach from scratch in his basement. I don't even think kit cars fit the criteria of building a car. Assembled? Sure, but certainly not built.
JMax Paint Garage LLC Ahh crap, I've been discovered. That made me chuckle especially when someone posted a comment on this article talking about how people hide behind screen names and are too afraid to use their real names. Well, this is proof that if you use a screen name long enough then plenty of people will know who you are.
I was thinking the same thing as I was reading the article.....kinda like generalization of haters; 1983.
Been surfin the web since 1996 and the self entitled attitude and hating has always been there. Not just in car culture but in other fun things in life. I remember the WebTv days on chat rooms and you can get the same effect. It has never bothered me though.....i like it when its funny hating or shit talking, even if its in my expense.
I never take the socializing or just any interaction on the web of any kind wether be face,insta,yurfavforum,twit,blog,xhamster,pintr,snapshit seriously.
If anybody has an unjust attitude or opinion about something, I immediately see them as grandpa. Old and just not cool.
Im a hater for people with no motherf'n style or progression.
Reuben Rodriguez I'm not gonna lie... Version 20s truck is badass! Awesome truck bro
DavidLeBaillyBuschhorn You may want to use a different avatar the next time you go on a rant about how people who are afraid to show their faces are cowards.
@jd I appreciate your response and that you've taken the time to articulate it properly. I feel like a broken record (my own doing) but I'm definitely not against all millennials and if anything, I want to reach out to those who're maybe lurking but are put off by the hostility displayed by an increasing number of people. I used millennials as an example because it's the group I have the most experience with. By definition, I would be considered a millennial too.
@Koopa Troopa turboboxer6spd Ironically, I feel like you've come full circle here and are pretty much agreeing with what Paddy wrote. The way I read the article, Paddy was expressing his frustration at the people who think their way is the only way, people who aren't willing to participate socially on a level where they can give, receive, act on, or choose to ignore criticism and opinion and people who wont engage in debate.
You're clearly not a person who is afraid of debate, or expressing their opinion, and likewise you seem happy to read and act upon (whether that is to accept or ignore) others opinions and feedback. I think that's exactly the person Paddy was emphasising we should all strive to be! Rather than the "self-entitled" close-minded, "what I say is correct, you should fit in with my view of the world" kind of person, we all need to learn to appreciate each others opinion, and share our own experience without prejudice.
You seem to have taken his point around "Nobody is entitled to an opinion..." to be that nobody should express their views. But I'm fairly sure that whole sentence was written with some poetic licence in order to cause debate. If you read the rest of the sentence, he actually goes on to say that opinions should be backed up with facts/experiences or at least some thoughtful debate. In other words, you're free to express yourself, but do it from a position of knowledge and thoughtfulness, rather than a place of naivety and ignorance.
bluestreaksti From what others have said, absolutely.
spankyyy______ That's exactly the attitude to carry in life.
JonnyFez I've heard from a lot of people that the comments put them off being more involved. Honestly, I'm used to them and have grown a thick skin over the years but can absolutely appreciate how someone would not want to bring that negativity into their life.
RichardHomer Good point, and it's definitely more about how you say something rather than what you're saying.
Dominate Generally, people hide behind 'I'm entitled to my opinion' when they're just being obnoxious and can't properly defend their argument. Again, I'm not blaming *all* millennials or am I unaware that this isn't limited to one generation.
It's my own personal belief that a lot of good people are put off becoming a part of our wonderful community because people - of all ages and backgrounds - are being allowed to get away with being dicks.
DustinFickert I'm not sure what you're referring to. Can you screengrab?
@Koopa Troopa JamesHayward29 There's a time and a place for everything. Doing burnouts at a meet which someone has worked really hard on organising and is trying to create a like-minded community is a pretty dick move. Hugely disrespectful.
Kirk_B Taryn Croucher I don't think my mental health would appreciate regular doses of this kind of thing.
Robo_No1 turboboxer6spd I had a reply wrote down, but Robo_No1 said it better. I think we're on the same page, @Koopa Troopa, because I don't really disagree with anything your saying except that this discussion is detrimental to the whole car community. You may have just mis-interpreted (as much my fault for not being clearer) what I was trying to say.
@JDM_Purist What's wrong with black & white!?
BrandonPetersen I appreciate this comment so much
1939ba You're right. In fact, I'm not a writer at all. I'm just a car guy who is sick of having our community tainted by the few.
How do you suggest I improve?
"PREACH! haha. All are welcome at the church petrol headedness, but please, leave your ignorance, narrow mindedness, and attitude at the door. This is a broad church, and one that'll expand you're horizons, but only if you'll let it.
Always provoking thought and honesty Paddy. Keep it up man. Also that 2nd shot in the article with the Cresta in the car park, it seems to tell a story. I've no idea why, or what about it seems to say so much. It could have been taken anywhere, it feels almost like it could be an American rest stop... well, if it weren't for the Centra sign in the background haha.
Haycha3170 It's a solid point. If I was to re-write it or perhaps further elaborate, it's a lot more about how you express yourself rather than what you say.
JakWhite To be fair, you're not far wrong. I've grown quite a thick skin having contributed here since 2009, but I always feel that the hostile atmosphere that's sometimes created is off putting for newcomers.
It's definitely not one group either BTW, but from my experience it is more prevalent from the younger generation at the minute. That might purely be down to how much access kids have to social media these days, in comparison to even those who are just a few years older. Maybe they'll grow out of it, maybe they won't. I just think that it's in our own best interests to challenge people who are having a negative impact on our community as a whole.
@Ken I think it has a lot to do with people wanting instant gratification but who are not prepared to put in the hard graft to earn it. In my experiences, these aren't genuine enthusiasts and tend to move onto the next thing where they think they can become an instant hero.
There are also guys and girls who are working on an extreme budget or who maybe just don't have access to quality parts, so I tend not to be so quick to judge.
i23sonny Just to play devil's advocate here, that sort of upbringing (like helicopter parenting) isn't doing the kids any good either and is certainly not preparing them for growing up in this world.
CarlJones3 Absolutely, I've elaborated on my thoughts somewhere above here in the comments. Thanks for taking the time to talk.
smeck Bad ass.
RobertVarner Appreciate you sharing with us, but those two statements aren't contradictory or at least they weren't meant to be. Unless I've picked you up wrong?
If I was to summarise the post into one sentence? Be nice to others and always be prepared to learn new things.
RobbieKazandjian Well, my friend is a dick...
(I'm joking BTW)
Broswick Absolutely agreed. I tried to use vague descriptions where I could, but probably should have made more.
Hanma Agree with most of what you're saying, although I'm certainly not bitter. Annoyed maybe, but that's more so because I see the damage being done to our whole community because we're letting assholes rule the roost. I think it's time we take it back from them.
@Koopa Troopa dude_bro Great point. Built Not Bought is such elitist horsecrap....I work on average 60 hours a week and when I'm not working I'm watching my kid. Therefore I'm a lesser person because I simply don't have the time to learn how to work on my car? I mean, I can turn a wrench, but not everyone is a mechanic, and not everyone is mechanically inclined.
What about the people that would rather spend their time DRIVING their cars rather than tearing them apart? Is Joe X a lesser person because he would rather take his car to a shop to get something done right and by a professional so he can spend his time with his car enjoying driving it?
BastienBochmann Thanks, Bastien. In hindsight, I definitely over-generalised but it wasn't my intention to lay blame exclusively with one particular group. Lesson learned.
Gianluca FairladyZ I wouldnt worry about it. That game is gonna be DOA.
Paddy McGrath RobbieKazandjian
But clearly not a 100% dick IF he has an RX8! 8)
Taryn Croucher If you're featuring a car or other piece of work in a medium where thousands of people will see it and can comment on it, you need to expect criticism. If you don't want to hear the criticism, don't feature your car.
I look at this as the pendulum swinging the other way.
I grew up in a time when it was considered "bad" to think about yourself and your own desires, speak your own mind, offer your own opinion; basically, it was bad to consider yourself before what everyone else thought you should be about.
Over the years, society has changed in that the idea of "self" has become much more important: express yourself, state your opinion, be what you want to be, do what you want to do, do what feels good for you, etc. The only problem is that now people have forgotten how to respect one another while we're celebrating the beauty of our "selves."
THE TRICK is to learn how to respect the value of others and the community around us, while being true to ourselves and not forgetting who we truly are; we need to reach a balance because one or the other doesn't work. Will people ever learn how to do this? Only time will tell, but the "i" generation has a lot to learn...
I'm just wondering if there is a big difference between those born in the late 80s/early 90s and mid 90s-mid 00s. If referring to us all as the same then I think that's wrong. I first had a console (PS1) when I was about 8, but with no games as they were a rare weekend treat. It wasn't til I was a teen that I had a console with a few games. I grew up playing outside and on the road and didn't have a mobile phone til I was 14 - and it was a crappy Nokia, not a smartphone. And I went to school wearing what my parents bought me. I didn't get much say in what hairstyle I had either.
I'm going to reserve my judgement of the later cohort I've mentioned. Partly because I am the eldest child in my family, and partly because every family has different economic status. But it does miff me that I am regarded as the "same" as someone born in 2000 for instance. Night and day.
Paddy McGrath thanks for your response too, paddy. another thing i've always appreciated about this site is that the authors are willing to engage with their readers in the comments.
your last paragraph is the one that really put me off, the idea of reaching out to the good ones, as it were, something you're still getting at. to a young person like myself, it sounds like you're saying: "you were born into an ocean of shit, and i'm offering you a lifeline. won't you leave your peers behind, and join us at the adults' table?" or to turn it around with one of the few things i know about you, "well i'm just saying a lot of Irish people ARE alcoholics, but since you're not, do you want to hang out with us?"
can you see why that wouldn't appeal to us? it's belittling. it's demeaning. it's patronizing. in this very article, you were telling us that it's we who think the rest of you should be "grateful that we've shared our virtuous judgment". meanwhile, you've declared our peers generally worse than other people, and suggested that the rest of us reach out to you so that you can show us the light.
all this is on top of the fact that there's years of internet forums whose archives you can dig through and find people being MASSIVE DICKWEEDS - judgmental, dismissive, curt, rude - going back well over a decade. back then they were just dicks. nobody accused them of being narcissistic, or symptoms of the tragic decline of the accountability of children.
i do have a chip on my shoulder about the perception of millenials; this is not my first internet rant about the subject. but i'm not here because i'm angry. i'm writing these walls of text because i want to tell you how this article sounds to at least one of its intended recipients. you're inviting me to join you in a group that doesn't think it's superior, and you're doing so by telling me my group is inferior. i know you mean well, but read it from our perspective. it comes off as condescending.
Being a petrol head is no different to following any other religion, we all worship the same the thing, the car. Just we choose different ways to do that. Who are we to say what is right or what is wrong. If you believe something is correct and it makes you happy then more power to you.
I could park my car next to a air'd out stance car and while I dont like that look I can appreciate the monumental effort that goes in to it, and while the other owner might not like my car I can guarantee we'd find some middle ground to chat and share about.
I love being a petrol head, I've met some fantastic people in the 11 years I've been driving, I've done some awesome things and I wouldn't give my hobby up for the world!
mykranili It's hard to argue against that view. A point well made.
John Key NZ Like I've said, it's not everyone from a particular generation. I'm also a millennial but would have had a similar upbringing to yourself. Time will only tell if this is a youth problem or a generation problem.
As someone brilliantly stated below, it's up to each of us to define who we are and not to fall under the label of any particular generation.
D1RGE "What about the people that would rather spend their time DRIVING their cars rather than tearing them apart" That right there is what made me no longer drive Nissans and switch to Hondas. I woke up one day, and realized I've had enough of that POS S14. I stripped it, parted it out locally and on Zilvia, junked the body, and then bought a Honda. I've never looked back.
I've spent most of my adult life working on $100,000+ diesel trucks and sometimes I just don't feel like doing something myself. It's not because I can't. It's simply because I just don't want to. Just like you said, I'm not sure how that makes me any less of a person. If a shop I trust is only going to charge me 5,000 yen (~$38 USD) to change my bad wheel bearing, you're damn straight I'm going to have them do it. I can do one of two things: sweat my balls off all afternoon for the internet street cred, or I can spend $38 and spend that time I would have spent sweating my balls off with my son instead.
Paddy McGrath I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just disagreeing with the statement OP made about this being about the "youth of today." I yell at and have chased away plenty of young people for doing the same things. The only difference between me and OP is that I realize they're just young and dumb, and don't blame it on the youth of today. I definitely did similar things when I was their age. You either grow out of being an idiot, or you never do. I know plenty of 30 and 40 somethings who act just like high school kids at car related gatherings and race events.
Paddy McGrath "You may have just mis-interpreted (as much my fault for not being clearer) what I was trying to say." It's very possible that's true. Your article was very passionate and strongly worded, and in that it can lose the tone of the message you are trying to convey. I wouldn't place the blame on yourself, as plenty of other commenters here appear to have received your message. I would be lying if I said I didn't get immediately annoyed when I saw the title of the article. This subject is one of very few things that pushes my buttons, and in that I may have just lost all ability to comprehend this article beyond face value. However, I will defend my position on the article being detrimental simply because it's so easy to take this article at face value, and I still feel that it misses the issues that I addressed in my original post.
Robo_No1 I appreciate your response. My response to your response may sound a bit cheesy, but your response was extremely well written and provided some much needed clarity (I admit I didn't realize I needed any clarity on this article, but you've convinced me otherwise). I'd really like to give some kind of lengthy reply, but I really can't think of anything to say other than /thread. You've hit the nail on the head.
The comments attest to the article. I have stopped going to car meets all together. It isn't just the car community either.
lol bro I hope your not john key . fark man if u are id be more woried about turning nz back it to the great place it once was . instead of running our country like a corporation. ....
Chuuch! (preach) ...Really I just have to make sure I don't post hangry. That's the big thing...
...childhood memories of loving the tackiest fiberglass and biggest wings on Honda's go right out the window, just might act like its 1998 internets up in any forum. FTR I'll still love those cars, in a way, if its a faithful representation of what I'd see at 90's car shows.
Why am I even infront of my computer if I'm hungry? The fridge is like right there it'd take me less time to make a sammich than post something angry. I have cake. Cake is so much better than a vitriolic, self serving post
I would be Ken block if I had half the business talent and sold my extremely successful apparel company to be a racing badass. Yup that is exactly what I would do; exploding my very expensive racing machines with a cackle.
Yes! Although I do believe that it could simply be arrogance and tunnel vision to their preferred style. Younger people are normally more 'sure' of their likes and dislikes, however this doesn't make up for the negativity and bashing. Im loving jap wide body builds at the moment but that doesn't mean I can't be accepting of a euro rat rod!
People just need to be reminded of their manners and common courtesy!
Thanks man. I'm gonna say I don't regret doing it, it was different to say the least but I have grown to like a cleaner look lately without to much bling and big wheels.
i think the world has become a place where everyone has to have the same thing to be accepted, its like these so called 'scene' shows? well i ask what is scene? a scene where everyone must have rotiform wheels, airride and retrimmed recaros? thats not a scene its a dictatorship!! the so called 'scene' should be about individual creation and other peoples respect to admire what is someones ideal car is and yes ive seen what i would call crap but lets be honest when i was 20 i thought a mk1 fiesta on pepperpot wheels was the best car ever
Paddy McGrath Although your belief may be true, is that really enough to publish it?
By singling out a certain group of people because of something that they
do or do not, you are following in the same footsteps as the very
people that you are trying to stop.
The only thing I can add to this is that the best thing is we are mostly free to do what ever we like to our cars, we are not fleeing our country from warfare etc or affected by extreme poor living conditions. Shouldn't we be embracing that most if not all of us in this scene have some condition of life and enough money to buy the internet and the cars and parts of our choice.. If its just a few speedhunters stickers then fine, people are pretty quick to forget how shit the world is outside of their own bubble.
Also Someone else's car is not your car, or your money investing the parts on it. There is always going to be someone who thinks down about your car or lifestyle in general, there's haters in every game, so don't be one of those guys to someone else. Just be happy with what you have and don't worry about what anyone else is up to or what level of life someone else is living. People are too Worried about everyone else when the real problem is yourself. Rather spend that focus on being the best that you can be.
Wwwaaaaaoooo Paddy looks like you have touch sesitive spot here.!!
Jeeezzzz...are they still arguing and debating over this post. And for what?! For Paddy having the balls to speak out the truth and gave his opinion. You guys need to remember that Paddy & a very few fortunate readers like myself here not only we love the car culture & is not just a hobby. We breath, eat and sleep the car culture and actually make a living from it, is both a passion, a vocation a JOB.. And that's why I support what Paddy has try to explain because it takes experience, and maturity and to be submerge 24/7 long enough to actually see what Paddy says. And is not just on the car culture is on everything. Is not rocket science.
The more I read the comments the more I see how old school I am. And the more I ask to myself everyday...What the hell is wrong with all the touchy feeling and emotional Dr.Phill crap of this newer and younger generations?! We are raising a bunch of opinionated cry baby's that feels they need it to say something because they think they know.
And if you feel offended or targeted by what Paddy respectfully try to bring to the table...then my friend you are a Pussy...there is no debate is not even a thing to reason..to ask yourself (OOooHhhhh how Am I gonna feel about what Paddy or SpeedHunters says?) Am I ok with it, do I feel comfortable? No... Dude if you don't like it that's it just move on to the next post and stop being such a F★%+ bi#$% ! Or go and read the other stupid magazine from Cali that have the same bling bling fast&furios shit type of cars every month...the only thing worth it is the Asian Models they show.
Back home we have a saying..If you don't like it. Don't eat it.
May the God's protect us from one day being invaded by another civilization cause despite our technology We won't last even a dam day with all the sentimental pussy's we have.
And is not a bad thing to have feelings...but gave me a F@*$# break man!! Is just and opinion.
Now move on enjoy the newer Post.
And (LLLEEETTTT IT GOOO!! LLLEETT IT GO!!)
abezzegh87 "This can be seen as rude commenting, but thats just how i am, either leave something stock, or if you change it, make it really good." LOL oh dear
but once again you are telling others to change somthing they own and have designed to THEIR taist to change somthing just because you think they should, or its what YOU would have done. MAybe they didn't want to, or could afford to, or have other plans for x part in the future and changing it now would not be possible.
You seem very opinionated "By the way, my generation is the last true petrohead gen, imho." thats just your view on it, not others.
Cars are a minute fraction of the worlds greenhouse gas production, both human and natural.
The methane leak in CA caused more climate change then every car enthusiast in California in probably the last 50 years.
Until third world countries stop dumping staggering amounts pollution into the environment I'm not going to worry about my straight piped 4 cylinder that I use for 5 hours a month and I'm not going to let some guy with a suite of sweatshop made Apple products and a house full of Chinese appliances convince me otherwise.
the car was very good
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