Discussion: Red Bull Drama At F1 Malaysia

This weekend, Formula 1 headed to Sepang Circuit for the second round of the 2013 season, and what unfolded was a race filled with both on-track drama and some very uncomfortable moments between team-mates. The biggest of these was of course between first and second place finishers Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber of Red Bull Racing.

With 10 laps to go, Webber was in P1 leading the second place Vettel  with team orders to conserve pace and ensure the 1-2 finish. Sebastian had other ideas. He battled Webber hard, and after some hair-raising wheel to wheel action, passed his team-mate to take P1 and the eventual victory. Mark’s reaction was immediate, throwing up the one-finger salute after Vettel made the pass.

Vettel eventually apologized to his team-mate in the post race press conference, saying he should have obeyed the team and held his position behind Webber.

Webber on the other hand has not been so quick to forgive.

So with all the controversy that followed Sunday’s race, we thought we should open a little discussion so you guys can voice your opinions on what happened. What do you think about team orders F1? Was Vettel wrong to overtake? Should it be every driver for himself? Perhaps more importantly, what should Mark Webber do next?

We’ve also thrown in a poll to get your thoughts on what you’d do if you were in Webber’s shoes.

-Mike

(Photos from Red Bull Racing)

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242 comments

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1

The most likely outcome I think at this point is both "Cold War" and "Jump Ship." Some of the language Mark used in the post-race interviews really seemed to suggest to me he was already thinking about a move. He's a real team player, and a decent driver. His maturity and skills would be an asset to any team on the grid. I think he's fed up with dealing with Vettel.

2

It's a freaking race ...not synchronised swimming! Let them fight for the right of being first. It's a shame Vettel took advantage of Webber's loyality and you really have to honor him for being a team player but... please, no team order! It's killing the sport! Always has always will!

3

Vettel is a race car driver first. Team orders in F1 are meant to maintain pocket books, not drivers. Vettel felt competitive and I'd be damned if I was in that position nd headed to someone's voice over the radio. That's ridiculous, and its holding F1 back.

4

Webber isn't so Innocent, 2010 Turkey.

5

Everyone backing Vettel seems to be ignoring the fact that he caught up to Webber because the team ordered both drivers to dial down the engine performance - Webber did, Vettel didn't and that's why he caught up. I'd have no problem with Vettel winning if they were racing but it wasn't racing; it's uncalled for Vettel to say Webber was slow when the team had ordered both of them to slow down. Vettel's been getting his way with the team and he couldn't let Webber get one win?

6

@aaronhrrsn Perhaps the way to remove team orders is actually to just have single car teams. There won't be any favoritism between drivers. I believe Webber has helped Vettel a lot in his three-peat of championships.

7

@phyodabomb So you want someone to hand you a win, If it was you?

8

I do not know how informed SpeedHunters is about Formula 1, but Ferrari would never be an option for Mark Webber. 
 
However, in regards to the post I would say that Mark should just accept the apology, but start looking for a new drive next year.

9

@MattClarke No, I rather race for it, I agree. But think of the reason the team ordered for an engine dial down. If my engineers tell me to dial back, I'd follow orders. It's less about me personally but rather bringing in the points for the team.

10

@phyodabomb If your out to do that only and not win, then why are you a race car driver? Webber did get sucker punched no question about that, but he has done that before himself and destroyed both cars in the process.

11

@MattClarke Quoting a three-year old race as an example doesn't hold, besides, that was all Vettel, not Webber. Sure Webber could have scooted over, but it wasn't he who made the contact, much less initiated the move.

12

@super_mut heard that he had the option to move there for this season.

13

It's time for Webber to move on really. This will be his last season on Red Bull, and after being the consummate gentleman for 3 seasons he's rightfully had enough. He's always played second fiddle to Vettel, and if wasn't for him standing behind Vettel, putting the team first, the kid wouldn't have 3 championships. Mark's been a team player, always has been, but being taken advantage of for putting the team ahead of individual glory is bullshit anyway you put it.

14

@RodChong  @super_mut Maybe next year, but it really depends on how well Massa does this year. Any place Webber moves to will mean he'll still be a number two, and even if he heads to a second-tier team he'll still end up as the next Reubens Barichello. Always a bridesmaid, never the bride.

15
F1_is_not_a_procession

@FunctionFirst  @MattClarke What about Silverstone 2011 (Webber blatantly admitted to not listening to team orders) and Brazil 2012 (not helping Vettel with the WDC when he himself is out of the running)? I think the Pot is forgetting that he's black too. The only difference here was that Webber does not have the race craft to get pass Vettel when he himself does not listen to team orders.

16

@MattClarke  Guess we have different views on this and I'll leave it at that. It's the sucker punch I have an issue with. Perhaps both guys should have been racing full steam to begin with and if engines blew, so be it. My views on F1 have changed since they started introducing all these restrictions on tires, refueling, engines; they've gimped the sport a bit into making it less about only the drivers but also strategy.

17

@FunctionFirst why would the example not hold? drivers and team never forget that kind of thing. Webber got in trouble for it not Vettel. They both (Webber and Vettel) act like princess's when something doesn't go their way.

18

@FunctionFirst @super_mut indeed

19
F1_is_not_a_procession

@FunctionFirst Been following F1 for quite sometime and I'm not sure how you can classify Webber as a team player? I'm not hating on the guy, but he's no saint. And he moans quite a bit. Less talking, more action please. I'd have more respect for him if he decided to pass Vettel. And I also think Vettel should not have apologised. Should have stuck to his guns and pulled out "Senna's" amazing quote on what a racing driver is suppose to be!

20
F1_is_not_a_procession

@FunctionFirst Been following F1 for quite sometime and I'm not sure how you can classify Webber as a team player? I'm not hating on the guy, but he's no saint. And he moans quite a bit. Less talking, more action please. I'd have more respect for him if he decided to pass Vettel back. And I also think Vettel should not have apologised. Should have stuck to his guns and pulled out "Senna's" amazing quote on what a racing driver is suppose to be!

21

I think its stupid when teams play politics,  if the team is going to get a 1 and 2 why not let the faster driver win?  Its racing.....

22

Vettel knows he did wrong, but as others have said, Webber is no better himself when it comes to being a team player. I'd like to see them go all out, bring back the days of Senna and Prost. We want drivers fighting with all they've got not forming orderly queues.

23

If you want a seat in F1 these days you need talent or money. But it's easy to see who is who. The sponsored drivers won't make it to the podium unless they got a great setup for their car. That's why I think this is an example for everybody else on the grid. Racing is about winning. When you're faster you overtake the person in front of you.
Now I don't say Webber is only at RBR because of sponsors, but team orders only hold back real racing. Let the drivers decide who will win.
There are a few exceptions, like the last race of the season when your teammate can take the championship, then you can decide not to overtake him. The other way around, when he has got to overtake you, just stick to racing. When he is a real champion he will overtake you. If he can't, he's just not good enough

24

Great poll, but of course he should drive for himself alone. The question I have though is, hasn't he been until now? Senna and Schumacher were great drivers, but no-one would call them good sports.

25

Great poll, but of course he should drive for himself alone. The question I have though is, hasn't he been until now? Senna and Schumacher were great drivers, but no-one would call them good sports.

26

@F1_is_not_a_procession  @FunctionFirst  If your team boss, you put your foot down and tell them both to STFU and listen to orders. If your a driver you can ether drive H.A.M. or pretend your really driving hard but really your not because your dancing to the tune of a fiddler and slowly chip away at your self dignity as a driver. If you care about that sort of thing.

27

@F1_is_not_a_procession  @FunctionFirst  If your team boss, you put your foot down and tell them both to STFU and listen to orders. If your a driver you can ether drive H.A.M. or pretend your really driving hard but really your not because your dancing to the tune of a fiddler and slowly chip away at your self dignity as a driver. If you care about that sort of thing.

28

The fact that Christian Horner got on the team radio and told Sebastian that he'd had enough of his BS is a pretty strong indiciation of how 'in the wrong' Vettel was.
 
Outside of the driver vs. driver perspective, for a driver to risk two cars (aka millions of dollars) and a 1-2 finish for the team just because wants those extra points this early in the season is pretty arrogant no matter who you are.
 
I think the appropriate response would be for Red Bull to give Webber preferential treatment on the next upgrade package for the car.

29

The fact that Christian Horner got on the team radio and told Sebastian that he'd had enough of his BS is a pretty strong indiciation of how 'in the wrong' Vettel was.
 
Outside of the driver vs. driver perspective, for a driver to risk two cars (aka millions of dollars) and a 1-2 finish for the team just because wants those extra points this early in the season is pretty arrogant no matter who you are.
 
I think the appropriate response would be for Red Bull to give Webber preferential treatment on the next upgrade package for the car.

30

@Jmayhem exceot the bitterness goes back well before this race between the 2.  Ego's have gotten in both of their ways before.  This time, Vettel's was larger.  One needs to only look at Webber's interviews last year, at the end of the season in Brazil where he essentially said "screw Vettel, I'm not helping anyone but me".

31

@Jmayhem exceot the bitterness goes back well before this race between the 2.  Ego's have gotten in both of their ways before.  This time, Vettel's was larger.  One needs to only look at Webber's interviews last year, at the end of the season in Brazil where he essentially said "screw Vettel, I'm not helping anyone but me".

32

Team orders, at this stage of the season, do not make much sense to me at all.  Not that it's the bigger issue, it isn't - but that, coupled with the fact that the 2 are clearly not out to help one another, as history shows, is certainly an underlying issue.  This is big business and millions on the line in equipment, sponsorship dollars, team points, the lot.  But with Mercedes being P3/4 and 12 seconds down at that, there was no danger of losing the points.  Particularly with Webber on fresh tires.  So why not let 'em race?
 
People tend to evaluate racers of the past through rose colored glasses.  Vettel said it pre-race - he is a sportsman.  Awfully hard to live up to that when you're team mate does not support you...as Webber has shown before.  His record establishes himself as perhaps the best driver to come along since Schumacher (himself criticized for ruthlessness). 
 
While not as headline grabbing, the hammer should fall higher up the foodchain than the drivers on this one IMHO

33

Team orders, at this stage of the season, do not make much sense to me at all.  Not that it's the bigger issue, it isn't - but that, coupled with the fact that the 2 are clearly not out to help one another, as history shows, is certainly an underlying issue.  This is big business and millions on the line in equipment, sponsorship dollars, team points, the lot.  But with Mercedes being P3/4 and 12 seconds down at that, there was no danger of losing the points.  Particularly with Webber on fresh tires.  So why not let 'em race?
 
People tend to evaluate racers of the past through rose colored glasses.  Vettel said it pre-race - he is a sportsman.  Awfully hard to live up to that when you're team mate does not support you...as Webber has shown before.  His record establishes himself as perhaps the best driver to come along since Schumacher (himself criticized for ruthlessness). 
 
While not as headline grabbing, the hammer should fall higher up the foodchain than the drivers on this one IMHO

34

After seeing incidents like this time and time again over the years, I'm starting to think F1 would be better as follows: 1 car per team, no team orders, no squabbling, no bullshit. First past the post wins. Much more interesting! In fact, screw it, I'm going to turn all Bernie Eccleston and start a splinter series...

35

After seeing incidents like this time and time again over the years, I'm starting to think F1 would be better as follows: 1 car per team, no team orders, no squabbling, no bullshit. First past the post wins. Much more interesting! In fact, screw it, I'm going to turn all Bernie Eccleston and start a splinter series...

36

@FunctionFirst @RodChong @super_mut
Also if he were driving a Ferrari in that situation, there would be stern team orders. Only Weber wouldn't like them. Just ask Massa

37

@FunctionFirst @RodChong @super_mut
Also if he were driving a Ferrari in that situation, there would be stern team orders. Only Weber wouldn't like them. Just ask Massa

38
Gerben aka Suburuuh

Team orders, I h*te them. It's got nothing to do with (the) sport or sportivity, just status and money or sponser obligations imho. It's a downgrade to the exitement, passion and more within every sport.
I still believe that every race driver has to go to the limit to achieve victory, but with a fair and non damaging overtake!
It doesn't mean that you can't or couldn't crash, but one knows when it's possible and when not!

39
Gerben aka Suburuuh

Team orders, I h*te them. It's got nothing to do with (the) sport or sportivity, just status and money or sponser obligations imho. It's a downgrade to the exitement, passion and more within every sport.
I still believe that every race driver has to go to the limit to achieve victory, but with a fair and non damaging overtake!
It doesn't mean that you can't or couldn't crash, but one knows when it's possible and when not!

40

I say take the punch, in Vettels face.

41

I say take the punch, in Vettels face.

42
DominiqueSeefeldt

Team orders should be banned anyway! I don't see what all the palaver is about, it is a race and the fastest is supposed to win!

43
DominiqueSeefeldt

Team orders should be banned anyway! I don't see what all the palaver is about, it is a race and the fastest is supposed to win!

44

@DominiqueSeefeldt LOL, was he the fastest tho, or was he only the fastest because Webber slowed down? The worst part of this is, how many times do you think Webber has followed team orders to let Vettel win? ...what an absolute douche bag.

45

@DominiqueSeefeldt LOL, was he the fastest tho, or was he only the fastest because Webber slowed down? The worst part of this is, how many times do you think Webber has followed team orders to let Vettel win? ...what an absolute douche bag.

46
DominiqueSeefeldt

@htaskis Probably not even once...
 
Still, the point stays the same... if your going to let the team captain decide who is going to win you can't call it a race anymore!
 
I think Senna said it best: "We are competing to win. And the main motivation to all of us is to compete for victory, it's not to come 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th. I race to win as long as I feel it's possible."

47
DominiqueSeefeldt

@htaskis Probably not even once...
 
Still, the point stays the same... if your going to let the team captain decide who is going to win you can't call it a race anymore!
 
I think Senna said it best: "We are competing to win. And the main motivation to all of us is to compete for victory, it's not to come 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th. I race to win as long as I feel it's possible."

48

"By being a racing driver you are under risk all the time. By being a racing driver means you are racing with other people. And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing, we are competing to win. And the main motivation to all of us is to compete for victory, it's not to come 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th. I race to win as long as I feel it's possible. Sometimes you get it wrong? Sure, it's impossible to get it right all the time. But I race designed to win, as long as I feel I'm doing it right." Ayrton Senna.
 
History repeats...

49

"By being a racing driver you are under risk all the time. By being a racing driver means you are racing with other people. And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing, we are competing to win. And the main motivation to all of us is to compete for victory, it's not to come 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th. I race to win as long as I feel it's possible. Sometimes you get it wrong? Sure, it's impossible to get it right all the time. But I race designed to win, as long as I feel I'm doing it right." Ayrton Senna.
 
History repeats...

50

Sebastian Vettel is employed by Red Bull Racing. Vettel ignored direct orders from his superiors. If any of us went to work tomorrow and ignored our boss completely, then we would get fired, or be severely disciplined. This is what needs to happen, and then it can all be finished with.

51

Sebastian Vettel is employed by Red Bull Racing. Vettel ignored direct orders from his superiors. If any of us went to work tomorrow and ignored our boss completely, then we would get fired, or be severely disciplined. This is what needs to happen, and then it can all be finished with.

52

Gilles Villeneuve   V   Didier Pironi  ,These things can be dangerous Vettel acted like a Brat...the season is long it's not won at the second race

53

Gilles Villeneuve   V   Didier Pironi  ,These things can be dangerous Vettel acted like a Brat...the season is long it's not won at the second race

54

@JoeWhaler Yeah, but if your boss told you to quit doing a better job than the guy next to you just so both of you can keep your jobs does that seem fair?
 
Your logic makes sense in an illogical fashion, but not in a real world situation as it is not fully applied. Tell me why motorsports should be "for the team". That's commercialism if I've ever seen it. I, for one, respect drivers, not the teams they drive for. So why then would I want a "team" to win and not a specific driver?
 
It makes sense to say "stay back, so you don't end up wrecking a multi-million dollar car", but that takes away from the ultimate aspect which is RACING. Teams are there to support and sponsor, not to control who wins and who sets back and gets 2nd even if he is the better driver.

55

@JoeWhaler Yeah, but if your boss told you to quit doing a better job than the guy next to you just so both of you can keep your jobs does that seem fair?
 
Your logic makes sense in an illogical fashion, but not in a real world situation as it is not fully applied. Tell me why motorsports should be "for the team". That's commercialism if I've ever seen it. I, for one, respect drivers, not the teams they drive for. So why then would I want a "team" to win and not a specific driver?
 
It makes sense to say "stay back, so you don't end up wrecking a multi-million dollar car", but that takes away from the ultimate aspect which is RACING. Teams are there to support and sponsor, not to control who wins and who sets back and gets 2nd even if he is the better driver.

56

i think driving for yourself should just be how it is, no team orders like that

57

i think driving for yourself should just be how it is, no team orders like that

58
F1_is_not_a_procession

You actually think Webber slowed down? Lol either you're delusional, or you're trolling. Plus there are numerous occasions of Webber not listening to team orders. He even admitted to it himself. Vettel is faster than Webber. It has been proven over the past 3 years, and last weekend in Malaysia when he qualified ahead of his team mate. But if you really want to troll, you'll say that RBR is conspiring against Webber and sabotaged his car prequalifying. Lol it has been spouted out on internet forums over the past 3 years and probably still is from Webber fans.

59
F1_is_not_a_procession

You actually think Webber slowed down? Lol either you're delusional, or you're trolling. Plus there are numerous occasions of Webber not listening to team orders. He even admitted to it himself. Vettel is faster than Webber. It has been proven over the past 3 years, and last weekend in Malaysia when he qualified ahead of his team mate. But if you really want to troll, you'll say that RBR is conspiring against Webber and sabotaged his car prequalifying. Lol it has been spouted out on internet forums over the past 3 years and probably still is from Webber fans.

60
F1_is_not_a_procession

@htaskis  You actually think Webber slowed down? Lol either you're delusional, or you're trolling. Plus there are numerous occasions of Webber not listening to team orders. He even admitted to it himself. Vettel is faster than Webber. It has been proven over the past 3 years, and last weekend in Malaysia when he qualified ahead of his team mate. But if you really want to troll, you'll say that RBR is conspiring against Webber and sabotaged his car prequalifying. Lol it has been spouted out on internet forums over the past 3 years and probably still is from Webber fans.

61
F1_is_not_a_procession

@htaskis  You actually think Webber slowed down? Lol either you're delusional, or you're trolling. Plus there are numerous occasions of Webber not listening to team orders. He even admitted to it himself. Vettel is faster than Webber. It has been proven over the past 3 years, and last weekend in Malaysia when he qualified ahead of his team mate. But if you really want to troll, you'll say that RBR is conspiring against Webber and sabotaged his car prequalifying. Lol it has been spouted out on internet forums over the past 3 years and probably still is from Webber fans.

62

This is a different scenario, the team didn't make the call.. Seb did
/Peden

63

This is a different scenario, the team didn't make the call.. Seb did
/Peden

64

And then people say that wrestling is the only "staged" sport out there...

65

And then people say that wrestling is the only "staged" sport out there...

66
PierreBelliveau

Think back to the small margin of points Vettel won the 2010 and 2012 championships with. He knows that Ferrari will be a lot more competitive this year and that the 7 extra points he got for that win will eventually help him in the end. He's a racing driver and he knows he can probably get away with it, why wouldn't he do it.
 
He took the chance and didn't fuck up. I understand Webber is pissed but it's not the first time. Both cars came home in one piece and that's it. I could understand the team being really pissed after a repeat of Turkey 2010 but it's over now.
 
Team orders suck, period. Rosberg lost that podium spot to a slower Hamilton too because of them.

67
PierreBelliveau

Think back to the small margin of points Vettel won the 2010 and 2012 championships with. He knows that Ferrari will be a lot more competitive this year and that the 7 extra points he got for that win will eventually help him in the end. He's a racing driver and he knows he can probably get away with it, why wouldn't he do it.
 
He took the chance and didn't fuck up. I understand Webber is pissed but it's not the first time. Both cars came home in one piece and that's it. I could understand the team being really pissed after a repeat of Turkey 2010 but it's over now.
 
Team orders suck, period. Rosberg lost that podium spot to a slower Hamilton too because of them.

68

Now from a team point of view I think what Vettel did was wrong as they were asked to maintain their positions to ensure victory, but however, this is racing, racing isn't a dictatorship, the fastest on the day wins - end of discussion. I also see this from a betting and spectator point of view as a complete farce. I don't want to know the definite winner before the end of the race. Vettels not the world champion for no reason, he WANTS it more.

69

Now from a team point of view I think what Vettel did was wrong as they were asked to maintain their positions to ensure victory, but however, this is racing, racing isn't a dictatorship, the fastest on the day wins - end of discussion. I also see this from a betting and spectator point of view as a complete farce. I don't want to know the definite winner before the end of the race. Vettels not the world champion for no reason, he WANTS it more.

70

@htaskis  @DominiqueSeefeldt Never.  That's why this is a non-story to fill space for 3 weeks until the next race.  Webber has a vast history of not listening to team orders.  He went as far as to say late last season that he'd do nothing to support Seb's title run.
 
Plus, re-watch the race and relisten to what Webber said.  That was proper racing.  What we should all WANT to watch.  There was no turned down engines.  Webber said that after the last pit stop they were supposed to turn down their engines and cruise home.  The fight broke out as Weber exited the pits.

71

@htaskis  @DominiqueSeefeldt Never.  That's why this is a non-story to fill space for 3 weeks until the next race.  Webber has a vast history of not listening to team orders.  He went as far as to say late last season that he'd do nothing to support Seb's title run.
 
Plus, re-watch the race and relisten to what Webber said.  That was proper racing.  What we should all WANT to watch.  There was no turned down engines.  Webber said that after the last pit stop they were supposed to turn down their engines and cruise home.  The fight broke out as Weber exited the pits.

72

@F1_is_not_a_procession  @htaskis Try the past 5 years.  Vettel was beating Webber in 2008 driving a Toro Rosso when Webber was driving the mother ship.

73

@F1_is_not_a_procession  @htaskis Try the past 5 years.  Vettel was beating Webber in 2008 driving a Toro Rosso when Webber was driving the mother ship.

74

@phyodabomb  @aaronhrrsn False.  Check your history son.  Read up British GP 2011.  Webber bragged about ignoring team orders and said he never would listen to them.

75

@phyodabomb  @aaronhrrsn False.  Check your history son.  Read up British GP 2011.  Webber bragged about ignoring team orders and said he never would listen to them.

76

It's time for Mark to move on.

77

It's time for Mark to move on.

78

"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver, because we are competing. We are competing to win, and the main motivation to all of us is to compete for victory; it's not to come 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th." - Senna

79

"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver, because we are competing. We are competing to win, and the main motivation to all of us is to compete for victory; it's not to come 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th." - Senna

80

Just by looking at the pool results, it shows the maturity level (or lack of) of SH readers.
Nearly 50% of you would advice Mark Webber to race for himself.
You guys forget that both drivers work for the same Team, and THE Team makes the decision. If cohesiveness is not achievable, than Mark Webber should talk to the Team manager and discuss the matter WITH Sebastien Vettel present.
At this level of motorsport, "racing on your own will bring you more damages than victories." To be successful drivers NEED their teams.
Vettel showed a level of immaturity in this GP.

81

Just by looking at the pool results, it shows the maturity level (or lack of) of SH readers.
Nearly 50% of you would advice Mark Webber to race for himself.
You guys forget that both drivers work for the same Team, and THE Team makes the decision. If cohesiveness is not achievable, than Mark Webber should talk to the Team manager and discuss the matter WITH Sebastien Vettel present.
At this level of motorsport, "racing on your own will bring you more damages than victories." To be successful drivers NEED their teams.
Vettel showed a level of immaturity in this GP.

82

@PierreBelliveau "Team orders suck"? Guess who hands the paycheck to the racing drivers?

83

@PierreBelliveau "Team orders suck"? Guess who hands the paycheck to the racing drivers?

84

Given his age i don't think he will be racing next year, and if so, he won't go to ferrari.  I believe he is either going to retire or keep racing as usual. There is no "cold war" in this sport.
Also, he accepted long time ago his "number two" status.

85

Given his age i don't think he will be racing next year, and if so, he won't go to ferrari.  I believe he is either going to retire or keep racing as usual. There is no "cold war" in this sport.
Also, he accepted long time ago his "number two" status.

86

@mbretschneider Do you actually think this was staged ? Have you ever seen an F1 race ?

87

@mbretschneider Do you actually think this was staged ? Have you ever seen an F1 race ?

88

Right or wrong I don't think it really matters.  It was amazing to see Webber  and Vettel fighting it out, I cant remember the last time I was literally on the edge of my seat shouting at the TV while watching F1! Yeah Vettel is a employee of Redbull and should have followed orders, but if he had have done the last 1/4 of the race would have been pretty dull imo. F1 Should be about the best of the best fighting wheel to wheel to the very last inch or tarmac. Seeing Webber and Vettel going 'mano a mano' reminded me why I love F1!

89

Right or wrong I don't think it really matters.  It was amazing to see Webber  and Vettel fighting it out, I cant remember the last time I was literally on the edge of my seat shouting at the TV while watching F1! Yeah Vettel is a employee of Redbull and should have followed orders, but if he had have done the last 1/4 of the race would have been pretty dull imo. F1 Should be about the best of the best fighting wheel to wheel to the very last inch or tarmac. Seeing Webber and Vettel going 'mano a mano' reminded me why I love F1!

90

Sorry if i used the wrong word, but, it seems "staged" fits where someone tells you to let other person win/get ahead (regardless of yours/theirs ability). I think that in sports, the best pilot/player/etc should win the competition.

91

Sorry if i used the wrong word, but, it seems "staged" fits where someone tells you to let other person win/get ahead (regardless of yours/theirs ability). I think that in sports, the best pilot/player/etc should win the competition.

92

you wanna talk about immature drivers, how about alonso staying off pit road causing the front of his car to explode? sheer lunacy, and no the good kind.

93

you wanna talk about immature drivers, how about alonso staying off pit road causing the front of his car to explode? sheer lunacy, and no the good kind.

94

@JDMized Judging by your comments in this post, you showed great maturity! Red Bull Renault should hire you as a consultant. I would also like to ask for some advice. Do u really think Webber and Vettel should stick to dancing Gangnam Style as a way of strengthening camaraderie within the team?

95

@JDMized Judging by your comments in this post, you showed great maturity! Red Bull Renault should hire you as a consultant. I would also like to ask for some advice. Do u really think Webber and Vettel should stick to dancing Gangnam Style as a way of strengthening camaraderie within the team?

96

@Ross I the last time they did that, they crashed into each other, and gave the 1-2 win to McLaren mercedes

97

@Ross I the last time they did that, they crashed into each other, and gave the 1-2 win to McLaren mercedes

98

@Ross I the last time they did that, they crashed into each other, and gave the 1-2 win to McLaren mercedes

99

@Ross I the last time they did that, they crashed into each other, and gave the 1-2 win to McLaren mercedes

100

@JDMized i'm with you here, before the race both drivers were told it would be a flat out race to the final pitstop, then they would conserve their respective cars to extend the engine life since now they only get 8 engines for 19 races. 
everyone posting senna quotes just stop, it is a completely different situation, webber was faster throughout the race, gave up a preferential pit sequence and was running on a harder tyre for most of it, then is told by his team to turn it down as there will be no challenge from behind, not once, but twice he is assured that his teammate was following orders.
if people think the faster driver won then they are so far off it's not even funny, if webber had continued at race pace he was going to beat vettel by ~5 seconds

101

@JDMized i'm with you here, before the race both drivers were told it would be a flat out race to the final pitstop, then they would conserve their respective cars to extend the engine life since now they only get 8 engines for 19 races. 
everyone posting senna quotes just stop, it is a completely different situation, webber was faster throughout the race, gave up a preferential pit sequence and was running on a harder tyre for most of it, then is told by his team to turn it down as there will be no challenge from behind, not once, but twice he is assured that his teammate was following orders.
if people think the faster driver won then they are so far off it's not even funny, if webber had continued at race pace he was going to beat vettel by ~5 seconds

102

@JDMized i'm with you here, before the race both drivers were told it would be a flat out race to the final pitstop, then they would conserve their respective cars to extend the engine life since now they only get 8 engines for 19 races. 
everyone posting senna quotes just stop, it is a completely different situation, webber was faster throughout the race, gave up a preferential pit sequence and was running on a harder tyre for most of it, then is told by his team to turn it down as there will be no challenge from behind, not once, but twice he is assured that his teammate was following orders.
if people think the faster driver won then they are so far off it's not even funny, if webber had continued at race pace he was going to beat vettel by ~5 seconds

103

@JDMized i'm with you here, before the race both drivers were told it would be a flat out race to the final pitstop, then they would conserve their respective cars to extend the engine life since now they only get 8 engines for 19 races. 
everyone posting senna quotes just stop, it is a completely different situation, webber was faster throughout the race, gave up a preferential pit sequence and was running on a harder tyre for most of it, then is told by his team to turn it down as there will be no challenge from behind, not once, but twice he is assured that his teammate was following orders.
if people think the faster driver won then they are so far off it's not even funny, if webber had continued at race pace he was going to beat vettel by ~5 seconds

104

The man-machine-robot has become self-aware!!! Look out F1!

105

The man-machine-robot has become self-aware!!! Look out F1!

106

The man-machine-robot has become self-aware!!! Look out F1!

107

The man-machine-robot has become self-aware!!! Look out F1!

108

And that's racing!  And from purely a spectators point of view that's what I want to see, ok I dont want to see them take each other out but I want to see them race . The engineers can win a race from the pits with incredibly clever predictions, and don't get me wrong the strategy of F1 is amazing and to watch a race play out with clever pit stops is fantastic. But after the statisticians have done their job and you are into the final run to the checkered flag then who dares wins!
 
Nobody wants to see the race effectively finish 15 laps before the end with the leading cars in a precession under team orders to the flag. And in Malaysia that's exactly what we would have seen, Hamilton was under fueled and was bringing the car home on fumes  with much faster Rosberg sniffing his gearbox under team orders. Exciting to watch? No not really.
 
F1 is the pinnacle of motor sport, the fastest cars on the planet with the very best drivers. And who pays for it? We do essentially , the viewing public. Without the massive world wide audience the huge blue chip sponsors would soon invest elsewhere. People want to see racing not team lead precessions.  Let em race I say.

109

And that's racing!  And from purely a spectators point of view that's what I want to see, ok I dont want to see them take each other out but I want to see them race . The engineers can win a race from the pits with incredibly clever predictions, and don't get me wrong the strategy of F1 is amazing and to watch a race play out with clever pit stops is fantastic. But after the statisticians have done their job and you are into the final run to the checkered flag then who dares wins!
 
Nobody wants to see the race effectively finish 15 laps before the end with the leading cars in a precession under team orders to the flag. And in Malaysia that's exactly what we would have seen, Hamilton was under fueled and was bringing the car home on fumes  with much faster Rosberg sniffing his gearbox under team orders. Exciting to watch? No not really.
 
F1 is the pinnacle of motor sport, the fastest cars on the planet with the very best drivers. And who pays for it? We do essentially , the viewing public. Without the massive world wide audience the huge blue chip sponsors would soon invest elsewhere. People want to see racing not team lead precessions.  Let em race I say.

110

And that's racing!  And from purely a spectators point of view that's what I want to see, ok I dont want to see them take each other out but I want to see them race . The engineers can win a race from the pits with incredibly clever predictions, and don't get me wrong the strategy of F1 is amazing and to watch a race play out with clever pit stops is fantastic. But after the statisticians have done their job and you are into the final run to the checkered flag then who dares wins!
 
Nobody wants to see the race effectively finish 15 laps before the end with the leading cars in a precession under team orders to the flag. And in Malaysia that's exactly what we would have seen, Hamilton was under fueled and was bringing the car home on fumes  with much faster Rosberg sniffing his gearbox under team orders. Exciting to watch? No not really.
 
F1 is the pinnacle of motor sport, the fastest cars on the planet with the very best drivers. And who pays for it? We do essentially , the viewing public. Without the massive world wide audience the huge blue chip sponsors would soon invest elsewhere. People want to see racing not team lead precessions.  Let em race I say.

111

And that's racing!  And from purely a spectators point of view that's what I want to see, ok I dont want to see them take each other out but I want to see them race . The engineers can win a race from the pits with incredibly clever predictions, and don't get me wrong the strategy of F1 is amazing and to watch a race play out with clever pit stops is fantastic. But after the statisticians have done their job and you are into the final run to the checkered flag then who dares wins!
 
Nobody wants to see the race effectively finish 15 laps before the end with the leading cars in a precession under team orders to the flag. And in Malaysia that's exactly what we would have seen, Hamilton was under fueled and was bringing the car home on fumes  with much faster Rosberg sniffing his gearbox under team orders. Exciting to watch? No not really.
 
F1 is the pinnacle of motor sport, the fastest cars on the planet with the very best drivers. And who pays for it? We do essentially , the viewing public. Without the massive world wide audience the huge blue chip sponsors would soon invest elsewhere. People want to see racing not team lead precessions.  Let em race I say.

112

Marks old and should move on? Please... He is a consistently at the pointy end of the field. He has no reason to walk away.
 
Oh and fuck vettel.

113

Marks old and should move on? Please... He is a consistently at the pointy end of the field. He has no reason to walk away.
 
Oh and fuck vettel.

114

Marks old and should move on? Please... He is a consistently at the pointy end of the field. He has no reason to walk away.
 
Oh and fuck vettel.

115

Marks old and should move on? Please... He is a consistently at the pointy end of the field. He has no reason to walk away.
 
Oh and fuck vettel.

116

@JDMized  @PierreBelliveau Well I do see Pierre's point. Yes, the team does hand the paycheck to the drivers, but I don't think there should be a number 1 and 2 driver. Two drivers from the same team fighting for one position? It's perfectly fine imo, as long as the race is nice and clean. The fans get to watch some good racing too!

117

@JDMized  @PierreBelliveau Well I do see Pierre's point. Yes, the team does hand the paycheck to the drivers, but I don't think there should be a number 1 and 2 driver. Two drivers from the same team fighting for one position? It's perfectly fine imo, as long as the race is nice and clean. The fans get to watch some good racing too!

118

@JDMized  @PierreBelliveau Well I do see Pierre's point. Yes, the team does hand the paycheck to the drivers, but I don't think there should be a number 1 and 2 driver. Two drivers from the same team fighting for one position? It's perfectly fine imo, as long as the race is nice and clean. The fans get to watch some good racing too!

119

@JDMized  @PierreBelliveau Well I do see Pierre's point. Yes, the team does hand the paycheck to the drivers, but I don't think there should be a number 1 and 2 driver. Two drivers from the same team fighting for one position? It's perfectly fine imo, as long as the race is nice and clean. The fans get to watch some good racing too!

120

@JDMized  @PierreBelliveau Most fans of RACING agree that team orders suck. I love Webber, but Vettel was faster, and holding back the faster driver defeats the purpose of racing drivers.

121

@JDMized  @PierreBelliveau Most fans of RACING agree that team orders suck. I love Webber, but Vettel was faster, and holding back the faster driver defeats the purpose of racing drivers.

122

@JDMized  @PierreBelliveau Most fans of RACING agree that team orders suck. I love Webber, but Vettel was faster, and holding back the faster driver defeats the purpose of racing drivers.

123

@JDMized  @PierreBelliveau Most fans of RACING agree that team orders suck. I love Webber, but Vettel was faster, and holding back the faster driver defeats the purpose of racing drivers.

124

Vettel is a dick, triple world champion or not that's not the right way to go about things, especially this early in the season. Of course, as Mark said, Vettel will have protection from the team for his actions and the racing continues for him. Mark on the other hand might not have a drive next year. He is getting old, but racing as good as ever, and off contract at the end of the season, i wouldn't be surprised if he hangs up his F1 racing boots at the end of the season, it'll be sad if he does and great loss for F1. Bernie Ecclestone has given him shit, same with some Austrian guy high up in Red Bull. I think there is only so much tormenting and bullying that one man should ever take at the pointy end of racing in the world and this might just push Mark over the edge.

125

Vettel is a dick, triple world champion or not that's not the right way to go about things, especially this early in the season. Of course, as Mark said, Vettel will have protection from the team for his actions and the racing continues for him. Mark on the other hand might not have a drive next year. He is getting old, but racing as good as ever, and off contract at the end of the season, i wouldn't be surprised if he hangs up his F1 racing boots at the end of the season, it'll be sad if he does and great loss for F1. Bernie Ecclestone has given him shit, same with some Austrian guy high up in Red Bull. I think there is only so much tormenting and bullying that one man should ever take at the pointy end of racing in the world and this might just push Mark over the edge.

126

Vettel is a dick, triple world champion or not that's not the right way to go about things, especially this early in the season. Of course, as Mark said, Vettel will have protection from the team for his actions and the racing continues for him. Mark on the other hand might not have a drive next year. He is getting old, but racing as good as ever, and off contract at the end of the season, i wouldn't be surprised if he hangs up his F1 racing boots at the end of the season, it'll be sad if he does and great loss for F1. Bernie Ecclestone has given him shit, same with some Austrian guy high up in Red Bull. I think there is only so much tormenting and bullying that one man should ever take at the pointy end of racing in the world and this might just push Mark over the edge.

127

Vettel is a dick, triple world champion or not that's not the right way to go about things, especially this early in the season. Of course, as Mark said, Vettel will have protection from the team for his actions and the racing continues for him. Mark on the other hand might not have a drive next year. He is getting old, but racing as good as ever, and off contract at the end of the season, i wouldn't be surprised if he hangs up his F1 racing boots at the end of the season, it'll be sad if he does and great loss for F1. Bernie Ecclestone has given him shit, same with some Austrian guy high up in Red Bull. I think there is only so much tormenting and bullying that one man should ever take at the pointy end of racing in the world and this might just push Mark over the edge.

128

Vettel broke team orders and of course looks bad to his team while also shitting on Webers parade...then apologises as he made an error/fuck.
Oh well, I'll still take those points ... and the lead in the championship , but I'm realllllly sorry guys !!
Yeah right !!
btw: Don't give Redbull to your kids it WILL spoil them ;P

129

Vettel broke team orders and of course looks bad to his team while also shitting on Webers parade...then apologises as he made an error/fuck.
Oh well, I'll still take those points ... and the lead in the championship , but I'm realllllly sorry guys !!
Yeah right !!
btw: Don't give Redbull to your kids it WILL spoil them ;P

130

Vettel broke team orders and of course looks bad to his team while also shitting on Webers parade...then apologises as he made an error/fuck.
Oh well, I'll still take those points ... and the lead in the championship , but I'm realllllly sorry guys !!
Yeah right !!
btw: Don't give Redbull to your kids it WILL spoil them ;P

131

Vettel broke team orders and of course looks bad to his team while also shitting on Webers parade...then apologises as he made an error/fuck.
Oh well, I'll still take those points ... and the lead in the championship , but I'm realllllly sorry guys !!
Yeah right !!
btw: Don't give Redbull to your kids it WILL spoil them ;P

132
F1_is_not_a_procession

@777  @JDMized Vettel's race was compromised by a bad pit call. But he ended up running a softer compound after the final pitstop. He was always going to catch Webber. Plus, Webber came out of his final pitstop with Vettel screaming down the pitstraight. He only just made it in front. He was going to be passed anyway. And I'm sure there was a statement from Horner saying that both drivers had their engine's turned down, although he had to verify first. Either way, nothing was stopping Webber from switching it back on and passing Vettel. The fact that Webber could only give Seb the middle finger after he was passed (after some intense defending which I thoroughly enjoyed because that is what racing is all about) shows that he was beaten on the track and he could do nothing about it. If you think Webber chase Vettel because of team orders, then you clearly don't watch F1. Lol!

133
F1_is_not_a_procession

@777  @JDMized Vettel's race was compromised by a bad pit call. But he ended up running a softer compound after the final pitstop. He was always going to catch Webber. Plus, Webber came out of his final pitstop with Vettel screaming down the pitstraight. He only just made it in front. He was going to be passed anyway. And I'm sure there was a statement from Horner saying that both drivers had their engine's turned down, although he had to verify first. Either way, nothing was stopping Webber from switching it back on and passing Vettel. The fact that Webber could only give Seb the middle finger after he was passed (after some intense defending which I thoroughly enjoyed because that is what racing is all about) shows that he was beaten on the track and he could do nothing about it. If you think Webber chase Vettel because of team orders, then you clearly don't watch F1. Lol!

134
F1_is_not_a_procession

@777  @JDMized Vettel's race was compromised by a bad pit call. But he ended up running a softer compound after the final pitstop. He was always going to catch Webber. Plus, Webber came out of his final pitstop with Vettel screaming down the pitstraight. He only just made it in front. He was going to be passed anyway. And I'm sure there was a statement from Horner saying that both drivers had their engine's turned down, although he had to verify first. Either way, nothing was stopping Webber from switching it back on and passing Vettel. The fact that Webber could only give Seb the middle finger after he was passed (after some intense defending which I thoroughly enjoyed because that is what racing is all about) shows that he was beaten on the track and he could do nothing about it. If you think Webber chase Vettel because of team orders, then you clearly don't watch F1. Lol!

135
F1_is_not_a_procession

@777  @JDMized Vettel's race was compromised by a bad pit call. But he ended up running a softer compound after the final pitstop. He was always going to catch Webber. Plus, Webber came out of his final pitstop with Vettel screaming down the pitstraight. He only just made it in front. He was going to be passed anyway. And I'm sure there was a statement from Horner saying that both drivers had their engine's turned down, although he had to verify first. Either way, nothing was stopping Webber from switching it back on and passing Vettel. The fact that Webber could only give Seb the middle finger after he was passed (after some intense defending which I thoroughly enjoyed because that is what racing is all about) shows that he was beaten on the track and he could do nothing about it. If you think Webber chase Vettel because of team orders, then you clearly don't watch F1. Lol!

136
F1_is_not_a_procession

@777  @JDMized Vettel's race was compromised by a bad pit call. But he ended up running a softer compound after the final pitstop. He was always going to catch Webber. Plus, Webber came out of his final pitstop with Vettel screaming down the pitstraight. He only just made it in front. He was going to be passed anyway. And I'm sure there was a statement from Horner saying that both drivers had their engine's turned down, although he had to verify first. Either way, nothing was stopping Webber from switching it back on and passing Vettel. The fact that Webber could only give Seb the middle finger after he was passed (after some intense defending which I thoroughly enjoyed because that is what racing is all about) shows that he was beaten on the track and he could do nothing about it. If you think Webber chose not to chase Vettel down because of team orders, then you clearly don't watch F1. Plenty of evidence out there about Webber and how he feels about team orders.Lol!

137
F1_is_not_a_procession

@777  @JDMized Vettel's race was compromised by a bad pit call. But he ended up running a softer compound after the final pitstop. He was always going to catch Webber. Plus, Webber came out of his final pitstop with Vettel screaming down the pitstraight. He only just made it in front. He was going to be passed anyway. And I'm sure there was a statement from Horner saying that both drivers had their engine's turned down, although he had to verify first. Either way, nothing was stopping Webber from switching it back on and passing Vettel. The fact that Webber could only give Seb the middle finger after he was passed (after some intense defending which I thoroughly enjoyed because that is what racing is all about) shows that he was beaten on the track and he could do nothing about it. If you think Webber chose not to chase Vettel down because of team orders, then you clearly don't watch F1. Plenty of evidence out there about Webber and how he feels about team orders.Lol!

138
F1_is_not_a_procession

@777  @JDMized Vettel's race was compromised by a bad pit call. But he ended up running a softer compound after the final pitstop. He was always going to catch Webber. Plus, Webber came out of his final pitstop with Vettel screaming down the pitstraight. He only just made it in front. He was going to be passed anyway. And I'm sure there was a statement from Horner saying that both drivers had their engine's turned down, although he had to verify first. Either way, nothing was stopping Webber from switching it back on and passing Vettel. The fact that Webber could only give Seb the middle finger after he was passed (after some intense defending which I thoroughly enjoyed because that is what racing is all about) shows that he was beaten on the track and he could do nothing about it. If you think Webber chose not to chase Vettel down because of team orders, then you clearly don't watch F1. Plenty of evidence out there about Webber and how he feels about team orders.Lol!

139
F1_is_not_a_procession

@777  @JDMized Vettel's race was compromised by a bad pit call. But he ended up running a softer compound after the final pitstop. He was always going to catch Webber. Plus, Webber came out of his final pitstop with Vettel screaming down the pitstraight. He only just made it in front. He was going to be passed anyway. And I'm sure there was a statement from Horner saying that both drivers had their engine's turned down, although he had to verify first. Either way, nothing was stopping Webber from switching it back on and passing Vettel. The fact that Webber could only give Seb the middle finger after he was passed (after some intense defending which I thoroughly enjoyed because that is what racing is all about) shows that he was beaten on the track and he could do nothing about it. If you think Webber chose not to chase Vettel down because of team orders, then you clearly don't watch F1. Plenty of evidence out there about Webber and how he feels about team orders.Lol!

140

Sure, F1 should be only about epic battles, but hey you had the order of staying second to you mate who powered down his engine  to save tyres and stuff, so it wasn't a 100% authentic move. We've seen this kind of strategy in the past with Michael Schumacher and Rubens Barrichelo, in that moment acocording to Michael he wasn't part of their team direction, but some years ago he was confirmed to be part of the play. In the end it's a race and you're trying to win...

141

Sure, F1 should be only about epic battles, but hey you had the order of staying second to you mate who powered down his engine  to save tyres and stuff, so it wasn't a 100% authentic move. We've seen this kind of strategy in the past with Michael Schumacher and Rubens Barrichelo, in that moment acocording to Michael he wasn't part of their team direction, but some years ago he was confirmed to be part of the play. In the end it's a race and you're trying to win...

142

Sure, F1 should be only about epic battles, but hey you had the order of staying second to you mate who powered down his engine  to save tyres and stuff, so it wasn't a 100% authentic move. We've seen this kind of strategy in the past with Michael Schumacher and Rubens Barrichelo, in that moment acocording to Michael he wasn't part of their team direction, but some years ago he was confirmed to be part of the play. In the end it's a race and you're trying to win...

143

Sure, F1 should be only about epic battles, but hey you had the order of staying second to you mate who powered down his engine  to save tyres and stuff, so it wasn't a 100% authentic move. We've seen this kind of strategy in the past with Michael Schumacher and Rubens Barrichelo, in that moment acocording to Michael he wasn't part of their team direction, but some years ago he was confirmed to be part of the play. In the end it's a race and you're trying to win...

144

I thought the team told him to make one more lap, no?

145

I thought the team told him to make one more lap, no?

146

I thought the team told him to make one more lap, no?

147

I thought the team told him to make one more lap, no?

148

@Ross I Yes, you're right but when you have two "one million dollar" cars in danger of a DNF and that amount of points in play, you don't give a crap about what racing is about, trust me.

149

@Ross I Yes, you're right but when you have two "one million dollar" cars in danger of a DNF and that amount of points in play, you don't give a crap about what racing is about, trust me.

150

@Ross I Yes, you're right but when you have two "one million dollar" cars in danger of a DNF and that amount of points in play, you don't give a crap about what racing is about, trust me.

151

@Ross I Yes, you're right but when you have two "one million dollar" cars in danger of a DNF and that amount of points in play, you don't give a crap about what racing is about, trust me.

152

Fuck Vettel for this shit. Taking a sitting duck who had his car turned down with multi 21 it wasnt even a fair fight. Vettel is a little shithead and Webber deserved that win and had it stolen from him plain and simple. Webber>Vettel.

153

Fuck Vettel for this shit. Taking a sitting duck who had his car turned down with multi 21 it wasnt even a fair fight. Vettel is a little shithead and Webber deserved that win and had it stolen from him plain and simple. Webber>Vettel.

154

Fuck Vettel for this shit. Taking a sitting duck who had his car turned down with multi 21 it wasnt even a fair fight. Vettel is a little shithead and Webber deserved that win and had it stolen from him plain and simple. Webber>Vettel.

155

Fuck Vettel for this shit. Taking a sitting duck who had his car turned down with multi 21 it wasnt even a fair fight. Vettel is a little shithead and Webber deserved that win and had it stolen from him plain and simple. Webber>Vettel.

156

@Ross I no it wasnt racing. real racing would be if their cars were even, Webber had already had his car turned down to a conservative map and Vettel went after hi while he was weak. unfair fight.

157

@Ross I no it wasnt racing. real racing would be if their cars were even, Webber had already had his car turned down to a conservative map and Vettel went after hi while he was weak. unfair fight.

158

@Ross I no it wasnt racing. real racing would be if their cars were even, Webber had already had his car turned down to a conservative map and Vettel went after hi while he was weak. unfair fight.

159

@Ross I no it wasnt racing. real racing would be if their cars were even, Webber had already had his car turned down to a conservative map and Vettel went after hi while he was weak. unfair fight.

160

Take the punch: Punch Vettel...

161

Take the punch: Punch Vettel...

162

Take the punch: Punch Vettel...

163

Take the punch: Punch Vettel...

164

Does this not remind you of Senna vs Prost?

165

Does this not remind you of Senna vs Prost?

166

Does this not remind you of Senna vs Prost?

167

Does this not remind you of Senna vs Prost?

168

@mbretschneider I thought you meant it was acted, sorry..
well, team orders are legal and every team uses them, and it's been like that since forever i believe.

169

@mbretschneider I thought you meant it was acted, sorry..
well, team orders are legal and every team uses them, and it's been like that since forever i believe.

170

@mbretschneider I thought you meant it was acted, sorry..
well, team orders are legal and every team uses them, and it's been like that since forever i believe.

171

@mbretschneider I thought you meant it was acted, sorry..
well, team orders are legal and every team uses them, and it's been like that since forever i believe.

172

@ElFantasmo I am sorry, i am not a native english speaker and i can lead to some confusion sometimes.I think most of the fans are used to rally/drifting and other scenes where you have only 1 car per team and they go all out and the best wins and that's it. Formula 1 has its complexity and thus can lead to such discussions

173

@ElFantasmo I am sorry, i am not a native english speaker and i can lead to some confusion sometimes.I think most of the fans are used to rally/drifting and other scenes where you have only 1 car per team and they go all out and the best wins and that's it. Formula 1 has its complexity and thus can lead to such discussions

174

@ElFantasmo I am sorry, i am not a native english speaker and i can lead to some confusion sometimes.I think most of the fans are used to rally/drifting and other scenes where you have only 1 car per team and they go all out and the best wins and that's it. Formula 1 has its complexity and thus can lead to such discussions

175

@ElFantasmo I am sorry, i am not a native english speaker and i can lead to some confusion sometimes.I think most of the fans are used to rally/drifting and other scenes where you have only 1 car per team and they go all out and the best wins and that's it. Formula 1 has its complexity and thus can lead to such discussions

176

"When you are fitted in a racing car and you race to win, second or third place is not enough." - Ayrton Senna

177

"When you are fitted in a racing car and you race to win, second or third place is not enough." - Ayrton Senna

178

"When you are fitted in a racing car and you race to win, second or third place is not enough." - Ayrton Senna

179

"When you are fitted in a racing car and you race to win, second or third place is not enough." - Ayrton Senna

180

also, "Winning is the most important. Everything is consequence of that."Vettel was just racing to win. I respect him more than Rosberg for having the balls to ignore team orders and do what a racing driver should do.

181

also, "Winning is the most important. Everything is consequence of that."Vettel was just racing to win. I respect him more than Rosberg for having the balls to ignore team orders and do what a racing driver should do.

182

also, "Winning is the most important. Everything is consequence of that."Vettel was just racing to win. I respect him more than Rosberg for having the balls to ignore team orders and do what a racing driver should do.

183

also, "Winning is the most important. Everything is consequence of that."Vettel was just racing to win. I respect him more than Rosberg for having the balls to ignore team orders and do what a racing driver should do.

184

Vettel is a cold arrogant driver, incredibly talented but he's never going to concede a place to Webber. The redbull is a fast car and Webber has as good a chance there as with any other team, he needs to get ruthless =)

185

Vettel is a cold arrogant driver, incredibly talented but he's never going to concede a place to Webber. The redbull is a fast car and Webber has as good a chance there as with any other team, he needs to get ruthless =)

186

Vettel is a cold arrogant driver, incredibly talented but he's never going to concede a place to Webber. The redbull is a fast car and Webber has as good a chance there as with any other team, he needs to get ruthless =)

187

Vettel is a cold arrogant driver, incredibly talented but he's never going to concede a place to Webber. The redbull is a fast car and Webber has as good a chance there as with any other team, he needs to get ruthless =)

188

It was ferrari's call not Alonso's... inform yourself, before saying bullshit... Even if it wasn't, better crash alone, than crash into your teammate like Vettel does

189

It was ferrari's call not Alonso's... inform yourself, before saying bullshit... Even if it wasn't, better crash alone, than crash into your teammate like Vettel does

190

It was ferrari's call not Alonso's... inform yourself, before saying bullshit... Even if it wasn't, better crash alone, than crash into your teammate like Vettel does

191

It was ferrari's call not Alonso's... inform yourself, before saying bullshit... Even if it wasn't, better crash alone, than crash into your teammate like Vettel does

192

@F1_is_not_a_procession  @777  @JDMized Webber had a 4 second lead before the pitstop, then turned the gine down, when vettel came back to the track, he was all over mark...

193

@F1_is_not_a_procession  @777  @JDMized Webber had a 4 second lead before the pitstop, then turned the gine down, when vettel came back to the track, he was all over mark...

194

@F1_is_not_a_procession  @777  @JDMized Webber had a 4 second lead before the pitstop, then turned the gine down, when vettel came back to the track, he was all over mark...

195

@F1_is_not_a_procession  @777  @JDMized Webber had a 4 second lead before the pitstop, then turned the gine down, when vettel came back to the track, he was all over mark...

196

@PierreBelliveau all very cool, but when vettel need Webber's help to win the championship, he might not be there to help anymore like he did in the past...And Webber when the pitstop came was 4 seconds ahead of vettel, so I doubt, if mark kept pushing, he would win anyway

197

@PierreBelliveau all very cool, but when vettel need Webber's help to win the championship, he might not be there to help anymore like he did in the past...And Webber when the pitstop came was 4 seconds ahead of vettel, so I doubt, if mark kept pushing, he would win anyway

198

@PierreBelliveau all very cool, but when vettel need Webber's help to win the championship, he might not be there to help anymore like he did in the past...And Webber when the pitstop came was 4 seconds ahead of vettel, so I doubt, if mark kept pushing, he would win anyway

199

@PierreBelliveau all very cool, but when vettel need Webber's help to win the championship, he might not be there to help anymore like he did in the past...And Webber when the pitstop came was 4 seconds ahead of vettel, so I doubt, if mark kept pushing, he would win anyway

200

@JoaoOliveira it is obvious Ferrari said it was their decision to protect the "golden hero" that is Alonso. The pit crew were out and ready for him but he chose to stay out. Also, if you watched the race then you would have seen that Alonso's wing broke off and thus he lost all control during the braking zone for turn one and webber was right infront of him. He was lucky that webber either avoided him or was far enough ahead.

201

@JoaoOliveira it is obvious Ferrari said it was their decision to protect the "golden hero" that is Alonso. The pit crew were out and ready for him but he chose to stay out. Also, if you watched the race then you would have seen that Alonso's wing broke off and thus he lost all control during the braking zone for turn one and webber was right infront of him. He was lucky that webber either avoided him or was far enough ahead.

202

@JoaoOliveira it is obvious Ferrari said it was their decision to protect the "golden hero" that is Alonso. The pit crew were out and ready for him but he chose to stay out. Also, if you watched the race then you would have seen that Alonso's wing broke off and thus he lost all control during the braking zone for turn one and webber was right infront of him. He was lucky that webber either avoided him or was far enough ahead.

203

@JoaoOliveira it is obvious Ferrari said it was their decision to protect the "golden hero" that is Alonso. The pit crew were out and ready for him but he chose to stay out. Also, if you watched the race then you would have seen that Alonso's wing broke off and thus he lost all control during the braking zone for turn one and webber was right infront of him. He was lucky that webber either avoided him or was far enough ahead.

204

just an excerpt from fb i tend to think hits the nail on the head"Realistically, there are a couple of points which defined yesterday's race for me: (1) this generation is brought up to believe that winning is everything. Character does not come into it and there are very few role models for these guys in this regard, in motorsport as in life beyond it. This would surely have been a factor in Vettel's 'red mist' yesterday. At every point during the race, he was racing his team mate - that much was obvious. Perhaps when he matures over the years, he will learn to see the bigger picture, but it's a tough ask of a child who has lived almost his entire life with 'winning' being his main objective, to follow his team mate - especially when he has proved to himself and everyone else that he can win dominantly and often. (2) Vettel holds almost ALL the cards in the Red Bull equation and he is smart enough to know it. He wouldn't realize, at this stage and without trying it, that he's not going to step into any other car and be able to win (on present and recent form) as he is able to do at Red Bull. The team is smart enough to know that, if they push the wrong buttons with him - privately or publicly - he will walk. So, don't expect too much 'public relations' post race support for Webber - it's not coming, I am sure. (3) Having spent a decade wondering how Mark Webber got to F1 and, even more than this, how he stayed there, it hit me only a year or so ago that while he may not be in the top echelon of F1 drivers, based on what is visibly and consistently obvious, he is seemingly a damn good, down to earth, unaffected guy who I don't recall ever blowing his own trumpet and who accepts his place relative to the sensational talent of Vettel with inspiring humility. The media 'experts' from day one pumped him up to be the next great thing in F1 and continued to do so long after it was apparent that he was, at best, anything but. They should be forgiven for doing this, as - in the words of my familiar tune - it is all but impossible to tell a great driver from a good one in F1 and this has been increasingly the case for around twenty years. In my opinion, yesterday's race was the drive of Webber's F1 career - without question. He showed that he can take the fight to the best of them and, smartly, gave up when the choice was fighting an unsporting team mate or preserving his life. I don't think that the choice was any more complicated than that, based on Vettel's 'body language' at the wheel. A smart move, imo and it didn't detract from a performance which indicated that he was - on this day - as good as the best out there. Full credit to him and he didn't need to be the winner in my eyes to be the man of the race. (4) For those of us who worship this sport, it seems logical that standing on the podium after a race must be one of the ultimate experiences. When I watched that scene yesterday, it looked like one of the most lonely, frustrating and horrible places to be. Sadly ironic, but that too often is sport these days where money and winning are the only visible goals of greedy minds, corrupted beyond redemption through access to needless amounts of money. F1 has long been, in my opinion, a tragically contrived scene dominated by excessive greed and the misguided sense of self-importance which often flows when too many zero's are added to the cash flows - in and out. As far as motorsport is concerned, these cars alone make it an insult to its rich heritage as a test of driver ability. The irony is not lost on me that, while ever larger sums in the mega millions are spent 'sculpting' every last inch of those bodies on computers and in wind tunnels, all it has succeeded in doing is making the window of working performance so narrow that even the supposed geniuses who do the sculpting are so often lost as to why the cars are not working on track as they did in the wind tunnel! Children would be laughing at this, but there's a whole world of adults who still reckon that this is 'serious business'. When you need to open and shut a hole in a rear wing to be all but guaranteed of passing the car in front of you who is not allowed to do likewise, to me it is just one big sad joke - an insult to the intelligence of those who crave to still take it seriously. F1, as a sport, is dead. It is now almost entirely a show, an extravaganza hyped up to appeal to the masses and ever less so to motorsport enthusiasts. Given that it is 'owned' only by profit-driven individuals and corporations, this should be no surprise, as disappointing as it is to many people"

205

just an excerpt from fb i tend to think hits the nail on the head"Realistically, there are a couple of points which defined yesterday's race for me: (1) this generation is brought up to believe that winning is everything. Character does not come into it and there are very few role models for these guys in this regard, in motorsport as in life beyond it. This would surely have been a factor in Vettel's 'red mist' yesterday. At every point during the race, he was racing his team mate - that much was obvious. Perhaps when he matures over the years, he will learn to see the bigger picture, but it's a tough ask of a child who has lived almost his entire life with 'winning' being his main objective, to follow his team mate - especially when he has proved to himself and everyone else that he can win dominantly and often. (2) Vettel holds almost ALL the cards in the Red Bull equation and he is smart enough to know it. He wouldn't realize, at this stage and without trying it, that he's not going to step into any other car and be able to win (on present and recent form) as he is able to do at Red Bull. The team is smart enough to know that, if they push the wrong buttons with him - privately or publicly - he will walk. So, don't expect too much 'public relations' post race support for Webber - it's not coming, I am sure. (3) Having spent a decade wondering how Mark Webber got to F1 and, even more than this, how he stayed there, it hit me only a year or so ago that while he may not be in the top echelon of F1 drivers, based on what is visibly and consistently obvious, he is seemingly a damn good, down to earth, unaffected guy who I don't recall ever blowing his own trumpet and who accepts his place relative to the sensational talent of Vettel with inspiring humility. The media 'experts' from day one pumped him up to be the next great thing in F1 and continued to do so long after it was apparent that he was, at best, anything but. They should be forgiven for doing this, as - in the words of my familiar tune - it is all but impossible to tell a great driver from a good one in F1 and this has been increasingly the case for around twenty years. In my opinion, yesterday's race was the drive of Webber's F1 career - without question. He showed that he can take the fight to the best of them and, smartly, gave up when the choice was fighting an unsporting team mate or preserving his life. I don't think that the choice was any more complicated than that, based on Vettel's 'body language' at the wheel. A smart move, imo and it didn't detract from a performance which indicated that he was - on this day - as good as the best out there. Full credit to him and he didn't need to be the winner in my eyes to be the man of the race. (4) For those of us who worship this sport, it seems logical that standing on the podium after a race must be one of the ultimate experiences. When I watched that scene yesterday, it looked like one of the most lonely, frustrating and horrible places to be. Sadly ironic, but that too often is sport these days where money and winning are the only visible goals of greedy minds, corrupted beyond redemption through access to needless amounts of money. F1 has long been, in my opinion, a tragically contrived scene dominated by excessive greed and the misguided sense of self-importance which often flows when too many zero's are added to the cash flows - in and out. As far as motorsport is concerned, these cars alone make it an insult to its rich heritage as a test of driver ability. The irony is not lost on me that, while ever larger sums in the mega millions are spent 'sculpting' every last inch of those bodies on computers and in wind tunnels, all it has succeeded in doing is making the window of working performance so narrow that even the supposed geniuses who do the sculpting are so often lost as to why the cars are not working on track as they did in the wind tunnel! Children would be laughing at this, but there's a whole world of adults who still reckon that this is 'serious business'. When you need to open and shut a hole in a rear wing to be all but guaranteed of passing the car in front of you who is not allowed to do likewise, to me it is just one big sad joke - an insult to the intelligence of those who crave to still take it seriously. F1, as a sport, is dead. It is now almost entirely a show, an extravaganza hyped up to appeal to the masses and ever less so to motorsport enthusiasts. Given that it is 'owned' only by profit-driven individuals and corporations, this should be no surprise, as disappointing as it is to many people"

206

just an excerpt from fb i tend to think hits the nail on the head"Realistically, there are a couple of points which defined yesterday's race for me: (1) this generation is brought up to believe that winning is everything. Character does not come into it and there are very few role models for these guys in this regard, in motorsport as in life beyond it. This would surely have been a factor in Vettel's 'red mist' yesterday. At every point during the race, he was racing his team mate - that much was obvious. Perhaps when he matures over the years, he will learn to see the bigger picture, but it's a tough ask of a child who has lived almost his entire life with 'winning' being his main objective, to follow his team mate - especially when he has proved to himself and everyone else that he can win dominantly and often. (2) Vettel holds almost ALL the cards in the Red Bull equation and he is smart enough to know it. He wouldn't realize, at this stage and without trying it, that he's not going to step into any other car and be able to win (on present and recent form) as he is able to do at Red Bull. The team is smart enough to know that, if they push the wrong buttons with him - privately or publicly - he will walk. So, don't expect too much 'public relations' post race support for Webber - it's not coming, I am sure. (3) Having spent a decade wondering how Mark Webber got to F1 and, even more than this, how he stayed there, it hit me only a year or so ago that while he may not be in the top echelon of F1 drivers, based on what is visibly and consistently obvious, he is seemingly a damn good, down to earth, unaffected guy who I don't recall ever blowing his own trumpet and who accepts his place relative to the sensational talent of Vettel with inspiring humility. The media 'experts' from day one pumped him up to be the next great thing in F1 and continued to do so long after it was apparent that he was, at best, anything but. They should be forgiven for doing this, as - in the words of my familiar tune - it is all but impossible to tell a great driver from a good one in F1 and this has been increasingly the case for around twenty years. In my opinion, yesterday's race was the drive of Webber's F1 career - without question. He showed that he can take the fight to the best of them and, smartly, gave up when the choice was fighting an unsporting team mate or preserving his life. I don't think that the choice was any more complicated than that, based on Vettel's 'body language' at the wheel. A smart move, imo and it didn't detract from a performance which indicated that he was - on this day - as good as the best out there. Full credit to him and he didn't need to be the winner in my eyes to be the man of the race. (4) For those of us who worship this sport, it seems logical that standing on the podium after a race must be one of the ultimate experiences. When I watched that scene yesterday, it looked like one of the most lonely, frustrating and horrible places to be. Sadly ironic, but that too often is sport these days where money and winning are the only visible goals of greedy minds, corrupted beyond redemption through access to needless amounts of money. F1 has long been, in my opinion, a tragically contrived scene dominated by excessive greed and the misguided sense of self-importance which often flows when too many zero's are added to the cash flows - in and out. As far as motorsport is concerned, these cars alone make it an insult to its rich heritage as a test of driver ability. The irony is not lost on me that, while ever larger sums in the mega millions are spent 'sculpting' every last inch of those bodies on computers and in wind tunnels, all it has succeeded in doing is making the window of working performance so narrow that even the supposed geniuses who do the sculpting are so often lost as to why the cars are not working on track as they did in the wind tunnel! Children would be laughing at this, but there's a whole world of adults who still reckon that this is 'serious business'. When you need to open and shut a hole in a rear wing to be all but guaranteed of passing the car in front of you who is not allowed to do likewise, to me it is just one big sad joke - an insult to the intelligence of those who crave to still take it seriously. F1, as a sport, is dead. It is now almost entirely a show, an extravaganza hyped up to appeal to the masses and ever less so to motorsport enthusiasts. Given that it is 'owned' only by profit-driven individuals and corporations, this should be no surprise, as disappointing as it is to many people"

207

just an excerpt from fb i tend to think hits the nail on the head"Realistically, there are a couple of points which defined yesterday's race for me: (1) this generation is brought up to believe that winning is everything. Character does not come into it and there are very few role models for these guys in this regard, in motorsport as in life beyond it. This would surely have been a factor in Vettel's 'red mist' yesterday. At every point during the race, he was racing his team mate - that much was obvious. Perhaps when he matures over the years, he will learn to see the bigger picture, but it's a tough ask of a child who has lived almost his entire life with 'winning' being his main objective, to follow his team mate - especially when he has proved to himself and everyone else that he can win dominantly and often. (2) Vettel holds almost ALL the cards in the Red Bull equation and he is smart enough to know it. He wouldn't realize, at this stage and without trying it, that he's not going to step into any other car and be able to win (on present and recent form) as he is able to do at Red Bull. The team is smart enough to know that, if they push the wrong buttons with him - privately or publicly - he will walk. So, don't expect too much 'public relations' post race support for Webber - it's not coming, I am sure. (3) Having spent a decade wondering how Mark Webber got to F1 and, even more than this, how he stayed there, it hit me only a year or so ago that while he may not be in the top echelon of F1 drivers, based on what is visibly and consistently obvious, he is seemingly a damn good, down to earth, unaffected guy who I don't recall ever blowing his own trumpet and who accepts his place relative to the sensational talent of Vettel with inspiring humility. The media 'experts' from day one pumped him up to be the next great thing in F1 and continued to do so long after it was apparent that he was, at best, anything but. They should be forgiven for doing this, as - in the words of my familiar tune - it is all but impossible to tell a great driver from a good one in F1 and this has been increasingly the case for around twenty years. In my opinion, yesterday's race was the drive of Webber's F1 career - without question. He showed that he can take the fight to the best of them and, smartly, gave up when the choice was fighting an unsporting team mate or preserving his life. I don't think that the choice was any more complicated than that, based on Vettel's 'body language' at the wheel. A smart move, imo and it didn't detract from a performance which indicated that he was - on this day - as good as the best out there. Full credit to him and he didn't need to be the winner in my eyes to be the man of the race. (4) For those of us who worship this sport, it seems logical that standing on the podium after a race must be one of the ultimate experiences. When I watched that scene yesterday, it looked like one of the most lonely, frustrating and horrible places to be. Sadly ironic, but that too often is sport these days where money and winning are the only visible goals of greedy minds, corrupted beyond redemption through access to needless amounts of money. F1 has long been, in my opinion, a tragically contrived scene dominated by excessive greed and the misguided sense of self-importance which often flows when too many zero's are added to the cash flows - in and out. As far as motorsport is concerned, these cars alone make it an insult to its rich heritage as a test of driver ability. The irony is not lost on me that, while ever larger sums in the mega millions are spent 'sculpting' every last inch of those bodies on computers and in wind tunnels, all it has succeeded in doing is making the window of working performance so narrow that even the supposed geniuses who do the sculpting are so often lost as to why the cars are not working on track as they did in the wind tunnel! Children would be laughing at this, but there's a whole world of adults who still reckon that this is 'serious business'. When you need to open and shut a hole in a rear wing to be all but guaranteed of passing the car in front of you who is not allowed to do likewise, to me it is just one big sad joke - an insult to the intelligence of those who crave to still take it seriously. F1, as a sport, is dead. It is now almost entirely a show, an extravaganza hyped up to appeal to the masses and ever less so to motorsport enthusiasts. Given that it is 'owned' only by profit-driven individuals and corporations, this should be no surprise, as disappointing as it is to many people"

208

It's fucking RACING you are all pussies and this is woman drama that should not be in F1. Did he break any rules? No. So quit bitching and go back to playing golf, or sit back and enjoy real racing, not a bunch of guys in fast cars acting respectable to let someone that feels entitled to win. It's racing to me, there's no crying, if you see an opening you take it, THE END.

209

It's fucking RACING you are all pussies and this is woman drama that should not be in F1. Did he break any rules? No. So quit bitching and go back to playing golf, or sit back and enjoy real racing, not a bunch of guys in fast cars acting respectable to let someone that feels entitled to win. It's racing to me, there's no crying, if you see an opening you take it, THE END.

210

It's fucking RACING you are all pussies and this is woman drama that should not be in F1. Did he break any rules? No. So quit bitching and go back to playing golf, or sit back and enjoy real racing, not a bunch of guys in fast cars acting respectable to let someone that feels entitled to win. It's racing to me, there's no crying, if you see an opening you take it, THE END.

211

It's fucking RACING you are all pussies and this is woman drama that should not be in F1. Did he break any rules? No. So quit bitching and go back to playing golf, or sit back and enjoy real racing, not a bunch of guys in fast cars acting respectable to let someone that feels entitled to win. It's racing to me, there's no crying, if you see an opening you take it, THE END.

212

honestly i think the best what Mark Webber must do is take it easy with vettel, vettel is young and though he has won 3 times the championship, he still must learn so this will be a good teaching to him, these atitudes will disappear at the time what vettel look how he is growin up he, still with hunger to go, go fast and go first and maybe with this feelin sometimes he make some mistakes but if i be webber  ll take with tranquility the championship are starting, so will be more races to win, also they are teammates i think they should be together.

213

Webber should accept that he is just another Barrichello. Drivers that aren't World Championship material SHOULD NOT interfere with World Championship drivers.

214

@Dbee Go home kiddo, regurgitating Senna quotes is getting old now. Besides, he was an asshole driver that risked that lives of many of his peers. But according to you, "second or third place is not enough" is a valid excuse. Moron.

215

@Tajhz I guess you too are on the documentary bandwagon?

216

@JoaoOliveira Nope, the pit crew were already out with a new front, Alonso decided to tough it out. "inform yourself, before saying bullshit..."

217

@alexperalta191  @Ross I Yup. Championship points are BIG money. Did you know: 1 championship point is equal to ALL shipping and logistics costs for the entire season? Yeah.

218

Fkitbtn: How long have you been watching F1? F1 is as much a business as it is a sport. Team tactics and orders have been employed in F1 since the 70's; and men have been breaking those rules since then as well. Therefore your outburst really isn't valid or make sense. MANY times Webber has been told to hold position over the years to allow Vettel to win or not give chase so that there would be no unnecessary risks taken. Have you all forgotten when both Vettel and Webber crashed due to a similar incident only 2 years ago? YES, you're a racing driver who wants to win, but in the end if you're part of a TEAM and the TEAM called a shot so as to achieve MAXIMUM points for the TEAM and NOT have their two drivers race AND have a repeat of the past; then you should obey.Vettel was NOT getting close enough to pass Webber within that race. When he finally got close to him and said over the team radio "Mark is too slow, tell him move over", Mark put a 3 seconds distance between them. He was told to conserve his tyres, hence why Vettel had caught him at that point. Otherwise, Webber was clearly keeping his race pace and distance throughout the race UNTIL the team told him to slow down since MERCEDES had slowed their drivers.Red Bull Racing usually lets their drivers race each other throughout the races but the fact that ANYONE who avidly follows F1 will know nothing will come out of this, shows that there has always and will always be a hidden preference to Vettel. What did mark say on the victory stand? "Vettel took matters into his own hands and he will be PROTECTED as USUAL"Barrichello was World Championship material by the way; for TWO years too. There were MANY times at Ferrari that he was cutting EVERYONE including AlONSO'S ass but team orders either came into play OR his car would have problems and he'd retire. There was one year he was even in the chase for the title. So saying that's he's another Barrichello doesn't make sense. Sometimes i honestly think a lot of ppl who have opinions on here are YouTube posters: Have little actual knowledge on something but just love to THINK they actually know something. If you're REALLY into F1 and follow the dirty little secrets as well, you'd know that Webber has ALWAYS had a battle from the time Vettel joined the team from Toro Rosso. From the team taking parts off of his car to put on Vettel's to somehow ONLY Webber's alternator in the 2012 season kept giving trouble and not Vettel....oh the lovely world of F1

219

@CodySawyers  @JoeWhaler Actually, team orders are allowed in F1. So they can do whatever the hell they want. The TEAM makes the decision, not speedhunters user "CodySawyers". Saying something like "Teams are there to support and sponsor, not to control who wins and who sets back and gets 2nd even if he is the better driver." really shows just how uninformed you are.

220

I think 777 hit the nail on the head with that post. It really can't get anymore honest than that.

221

I like somebodysb21....the man has been putting some of the lesser knowledgeable ppl straight lol. On another note, even Hamilton didn't like how the race ended due to his team orders. Funny thing is he was consistently faster than Rosberg for the entire race...give or take 3/4 laps where Rosberg was marginally faster and YET, had to basically coast for 12-15 laps near the end. I understood Rosberg's frustration but if Hamilton didn't have to conserve fuel, there's no way in hell he was going to keep up with Hamilton (remember Hamilton was actually in 2nd place and in front of Vettel when the shit hit the fan)...it was a sad weekend for F1

222

Realistically looking down the grid who could repalce webber and do as well or better as a team mate to vettel, I mean they would come in knowing red bull will expect results but they will always be #2 to vettel until vettel gets too old and thers new talent to secure. I place the blame on mark webbers engineer really he should have warned him about vettels pace since he can see data from both cars and im pretty sure he could see that vettel was disobeying orders. If I were webber I would have said F it and gone for broke and hope so if I didnt finish or got disqualfied for fuel it would have been on the horner and the engineers for not controlling vettel.

223

Overall as a driver, you sign your contract to race for the team. Not yourself! But however this is disregarded in the eyes of the drivers themselves. That is, because this is racing and that is what a driver does! So all in all as a teammate Webber did the right thing by obeying orders and Vettel as a teammate disregarded orders. However, Webber being a driver should of just raced as what a driver and a winner does such as his teammate Vettel!

224

@stikitnowcom Because if their two drivers race each other there's a high chance they wont get 1 and 2 but DNF and DNF. These teams put too much money into F1 to have their drivers that they pay millions to do what they say take unnecessary risks. Its business for them, not racing. Last time I checked 'Sebastian Vettel' isn't written in big letters on the side of the car 'Red Bull' is so they call the shots, the driver is the employee/puppet.

225

"There was no danger of losing the points"????? Do you watch F1? These cars were falling apart on the ripple strips this weekend. If they touch they break or crash every time and there's always a high chance of touching with Vettel behind and Webber defending position. If they touch neither of them finish and no points for RBR.

226

It's a championship. I feel like as long as the two drivers took a 1-2 finish, who cares who came first? I think this is indicative of F1's overbearing political environment. At the end of the day, it's a race. #nocompromise

227

@F1_is_not_a_procession  @777  @JDMized Webber didn't lose the track battle with Seb, he conceded the place in the interest of preserving the team's points haul. Martin Brundle and Anthony Davidson provided an analysis that showed Webber was entitled to squeeze Vettel off when Vettel made his pass, but purposely did not as not to risk a DNF for both. Moreover, one of the Sky pundits brought up the interesting point that the tyres presented this situation because drivers must drive to the limit of the tire, not the car, for the duration of the race length. This makes some drivers appear slower than others in certain stints, and when it comes to team mates, it will have made Seb think that he was faster (get Mark out of the way...) but after that Mark set purples and began to pick up the pace slightly.
 
You can't say "Webber would have been passed anyway" because Webber was on Multi 21 mode for the last stint, and maybe even backed off before that to preserve tires/fuel (the team strategy agreed upon was they would turn down the engines after the last round of stops and bring the cars home in formation). Meanwhile, Vettel was pushing all the time in his last stint to cover ground while Webber was on his last stop but Webber still pulled out ahead. At this point, the team strategy would have kicked in, and Webber had the position. Vettel SHOULD have backed off but immaturity and greed took over. I have no doubt that Webber could have turned the engine up and fought, but he chose to maintain the team's trust and hopefully that pays off in the long term. 
 
If I were part of the team and saw Vettel showing his true colors, where he puts himself before the team and willing to compromise my hard work, hours, and dedication to the team, I would lose serious respect for Seb and would not be as devoted to seeing him succeed as a driver. But none of that matters because Marko is the one that's really in charge. Him, Horner and Vettel are a trio of dipshits.

228

What do you think about team orders F1?
I don't like them if they are interfering with whos winning.
Was Vettel wrong to overtake?
Very wrong because he put Webber in a very unconfortable position - teams order was not to fight but was given a fight that he can not win.
 
If I was Webber, I wouldnt let Vettel pass again in my life, regardless of tems interest. Or Vettel integrity of the car.

229

Webber fought and lost to Vettel becouse he was slower. He should fought back immediately if he could! That is RACING for f**k sake! Team of course should hold them back A LITTLE to not wreck the cars, and get precious 1-2 victory, but giving orders is not fair in my opinion, at least not on the 2nd race! But i think way more harmed on that GP was Nico Rosberg who obeyed to team order to not pass Hamilton who on last 2 laps was WAAAAAY slower becouse of fuel saving. HOW UNFAIR IS THAT?!

230

@greenroadster Its not like a fight that mark couldnt win, but one he wasnt willing to fight. as much we like to watch a good race, f1 is a team sport, which includes BOTH drivers. And when two team drivers do battle it out for position, it can be wheel to wheel, but not THAT close, because what Seb did was way too close and it was an unnecessary risk. And to anyone whose saying that mark cannot match seb's pace,  mark is just as fast, but he is also wiser, hence he never takes any unnecessary risks and thinks about the big picture instead of just one race.

231

@Chris Nuggets  Well said!

232

Webber was obeying  team orders. He shouldn't be, in ANY way, scrutinised for this. But Vettel is obviously very insecure and cant handle being in second!! Poor move by him, makes him look very selfish.

233

@flywthtwngs  @greenroadster What you've said about Mark being wiser is very true, i agree.

234

wow this is good i like to know:
-what if you are in the position if hamilton? what will you do? will you to tell the team hey let he pass me i am slow because i can't save the fuel.
-and what if you in the position of webber? what will you do? when team say that both of you to hold position then of course you will drive easy to save the tire, suddenly vettel coming up to your side...what you gonna do?
 
it will be different if red bull say both of driver free to take 1 or 2 position as long as car didn't DNF, webber will not let vettel catch him up,
why vettel can catch him up because webber know vettel will not pass him, but vettel did pass him
 
and for this past 3 years i like vettel he young and talented, but i just lost my respect for him, and of course vettel didn't care we lost our respect or not, not even you he even didn't care what team say to him on the race

235

Webber fought back and won after he got after the pits on colder harder tyres, then they were told to cool it ans conserve their cars so Webber turned down his engine and kers and this is when Vettel past him, some have said that its ok because Schumacher and Senna would have done the same and ignored the orders no to pass, but the truth is they would have never have been given the orders not to pass in the first place so it would have been a fair fight, that is what makes this different.  Vettel has forgotten all the times that Webber helped him to his championship wins despite the fast that Vettel has hit Webber off twice during his career already (Turkey and Japan(under safety car)) Webber should just act in his own interest from now on and not co-operate with Vettel again

236

The major  fact is that Vettel ignored the TEAM BOSS order ! Unless he is in command of the team and we don't know it... All the rests are minor.  If you can't trust your driver's (as a team) then you can't talk about a team, it's a playground. If you can't control your drivers then something is going wrong with your team. If there was no order everything would be fine: may the best and faster win. But since there was an order from the team for BOTH drivers they had to respect it. Vettel didn't. I don't care if he is faster or not, the fact is if the team can trust him or not. What would happen if we were close to the end of season, Webber was going for the champion and Vettel was ignoring orders from the team? Either you work for a team or else make your own and race in any way you want.

237

Vettel is a piece of shit, not a lot more needs to be said.

238

I hope this does not end in a "Senna-Prost" scenario. It's gonna be another sad chapter in F1 history if that happens.

239

@Gio_001 you are right, plus the team order to mantain position and switch to the more conservative engine map to preserve engine, fuel and tires, "multi21" Webber did but Vettel didn't, this plus the better tires make Vettel able to catch and overtake Webber

240

@somebodysb21 actually Webber could be a world champion in the 2010 if the team didn't use him as a bait for Ferrari team at Abu dhabi to favour Vetter even though webber was ahead in the world championship standings

241

@Fkitbtn this is stupid, red bull racing spent  more than 100 milion of euros for racing, so Vettel as a employee of RBR  must obey team orders, no risk to destroy everything in order to overtake a team-mate running on low power map (due to team request)

242

Team orders are team orders, no one is bigger than the team, in the case of mark webber he should of ran him off the road untill they collided, vettel should never have put his car in a position to get past mark in the first place. This weekend vettel showed a new side to his personalitly and its not one i like. I can understand that as a team you want a tenacious racer who will always fight for the win but what if that driver doesnt know how to take an order? Vettel will beat Webber in the championship this year anyway, thats a given but if he wants Marks help for the title later in the season has he just burned his bridges? lets say webber needs to keep alonso at bay for vettel to take the title again? I think webber would just move over, i know i would!

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