Friends, there is a war being fought in our world. This conflict is not being fought with guns and bullets, rather with keyboards and hyperbole. This confrontation which divides our community has been created by two distinct approaches to the one thing we all love – our cars.
Currently, there are almost countless numbers of automotive sub-cultures. When you consider each manufacturer, each model, each model variant, each era, each region and each approach it adds up to a number beyond definition. However, and I am not trying to over-simplify things here, but I think that we can break down our modified world into two distinct categories – form and function. These two categories are of course not independent of each other, and they can be combined with great success. By and large though, most people will come down on one side or the other, and it is usually around this time that the arguments begin to kick off.
Style is usually the first thing that attracts most to the automotive community. You can see this happening at most car shows where everyday folk and children with no real automotive interest will make a bee-line towards a Ferrari or other such exotic. They don’t care about the oily bits underneath, but the external beauty is what grabs and holds their attention. The style pleases our basic human nature of desire. Simply, we like things that are beautiful.
For most of us, the most beautiful creations are usually beyond our reach. So we improvise. We take what we have and draw inspiration from around the automotive world to create something that we’re proud to call our own. We create something that is an extension of ourselves. Of course the crux of style is that it is subjective. One man’s treasure is another’s trash and all of that.
Where style is the pretty face that attracts us, performance and function is the personality which lies beneath. The age old anecdote of how motor racing was born the moment the second car was built is probably what still spurs us on today. There are plenty of us out there who will sacrifice any styling cues or creature comforts in the search of that extra tenth of a second. The pursuit of extracting every ounce of performance from a motor vehicle is what a lot of us live for.
I think that sometimes this pursuit can create a sort of tunnel vision. When we look at things with no consideration other than its level of function or performance, we become lost in a void of power figures, lap times and nomex underpants. When we dismiss anything that is not performance orientated, we miss out on the opportunity to be inspired and enlightened by the many amazing things that happen in the world of car culture.
It is these variations of approach that divide communities. Rather than taking the time to appreciate another’s point of view, people fall foul of their immediate reaction. It would be a boring world if we all liked the same thing, but I’ve never seen any car that would bring up the sort of venom & vitriol that I regularly see on message boards or comment sections the ‘net over. Strangely, it’s only online that people seem to forget their manners.
So we must ask ourselves why the difference of opinion? Some have no interest in all-out stripped and caged street legal racers, preferring instead to retain their creature comforts from day to day. Others could care less about aggressive wheel fitment, arch rolling and the latest trends preferring instead to extract the maximum performance potential from their car. I guess what we all need to realise is that either approach is perfectly okay because it ultimately results in the same outcome – the love and pride that we have for our cars.
The Speedhunters’ dot com is different to the majority of automotive outlets in that we cover no speciality subject. You only need to take one look at the front page on any given day to see the variety of automotive culture that we share and embrace. When I first started contributing to Speedhunters in 2009, Rod told me the one thing that sets us apart is that we will never hate upon any sub-culture or trend. Instead, we are taught to ask questions and learn to appreciate what we do not understand. This attitude and open mindedness is in my opinion the only way to really enjoy the complete automotive world.
Approach what you do not understand without prejudice, without boundaries and learn to explore things you would not have considered before. Only you can challenge yourself to appreciate how others do things. Learn to look at the positives and love all aspects of our world. Only then can you call yourself a true petrol-head.
Agreed. I remembered the first car culture I'm exposed to was Hot Rod and Lowriders (Rides, Discovery Channel). Then the next thing is drifting: D1 All Stars in Irwindale (again, Discovery Channel and I think it is on Rides too). And after that I see various other car culture. Between form and function, I'll pick function. But I don't hate form. Despite my interest in carbon fibers, stroker kits and turbos, I'm still wow-ed by those rat rods on Bonneville and bippu at Makuhari Messe. Open your mind. :)
One thing I've learned over the years is to really learn how to appreciate cars and the effort that owners put into them. Effort and dedication shows, no matter the brand, make, style, drivetrain etc. and it really is a turn off when enthusiasts bash one another based on the before mentioned specs.
I love all cars. And everything related to cars. I could go to a Rally event, drag event, Sports Car event, drift event, off road, and still enjoy them all.
I think this article is a little hypocritical. We can only be 'true' petrol-heads if we appreciate all forms of automotive culture? So if someone doesn't like a genre of music, they can't be a 'true' music fan right?
Wrong. Trying to arbitrarily determine what makes a car enthusiast a bonafide lover of cars is no different than a track junkie saying that VIP cars are unfunctional wastes of a vehicle.
We don't live in a hippy fantasy world where everyone loves and appreciates every different automotive sub-culture, but that's precisely why there's so much variety. People are going to have differences of opinion, whether it's cars, politics, tv shows, etc. so just accept it and move along.
Jmayhem Why not? I wouldnt call them music fans, Id call them rock fans, or rap fans. Track junkies, show car guys. Mustang guys, Corvette owners. Drag racers. We differentiate all the time for people who have specific loves.
And Apparently I live in a hippy fantasy world because my friends and I appreciate all sub cultures. Havnt met one yet I dont like, or appreciate. Do I have preferences? Sure. favorites? sure. But I don't denounce others. I really like cars from all walks.
Maybe thats the problem with our general culture. If Im a drifter/democrat/rap music fan maybe I should spend more time learning to appreciate where drag racers/republicans/indie music fans are coming from instead of telling them how useless or stupid their passions are. Learning to appreciate instead of badmouth, even if its not your favorite, is how we end up at hippy fantasy world, and get away from full of bullshit real world. I like to think we can be better, you apparently feel like there is no use, "just accept it and move along." You'll excuse the rest of us who want to have a conversation to hopefully make things better. You know, we believe there is room for improvement in our car culture, you should accept that, and move along.
Jmayhem and just to be clearer. I dont think the point is to love every aspect or sub culture, but to find an appreciation. To not denounce the ones we dont care for. to respect each other, instead of call each other names. Be stronger in our differences, not divided.
Its one thing to not like country music, its another to post "i hate country music, its so stupid" on every youtube music video or country music blog you come across.
Jmayhem I think majik16106 has pretty much nailed it (again). Nobody is saying you have to like anything, but learning how to appreciate other scenes is a core part of being an auto enthusiast. Well, in my opinion anyways.
I think the car owners out there also need to build a car for the right reason. Don't build a car to show off to others. If you are looking for the approval of others, you will never find it. Sure, you can join a car club, or hang out with a similar scene and get more positive feedback, but you won't get the approval of the masses. Never build a car for other people. Build a car for you, and what YOU want. If you are one of those hellaflush VW fanboys, whom has a car smoking and is rusted out, with $20 to his name, who cares. Just make sure it suits who you are and what you care about. It doesn't make any sense trying to convince anyone else what they should like or be interested in. The difference between leaders and followers are that Leaders do what they want, not what others want.
Speedhunters has helped me appreciate so many other sub-cultures that I would've sneered at previously. I'm still biased towards function over form, but I certainly appreciate a clean, well-built car when I see one, regardless of its intended purpose. The best is a car that not only is blisteringly fast but also very pleasant to look at.
i was saying the same thing a couple years ago. i remember sitting in films study class looking for something fresh and new to me, i came upon stance, and bosozuku for the first time. ive never look back since then, cant help to drop my jaw when i see a car that has tons of character and gorgeous originality @Corey K
For the most part I've had nothing but positive experiences within the tuner scene (mostly because my choice of car is a little unique) - for the most part the extent of the hate I've recieved is on Volvo forums by "purists" who believe that all Volvos should have a specific wheel, and should be no lower than what IPD's sport springs do (-1.75"). My license plate reads "Trollvo" for a reason. :D
I am appreciative of most car scenes, but there are some that I can't fathom. I think it's healthy to debate this hobby/lifestyle we love so much and there's nothing wrong with hating a style - after all, if we weren't passionate we're hardly be able to say we love cars could we?!
I like the fact that Speedhunters in neutral, but this stuff is way to deep under my skin for me to do anything other than form opinions on the things on the screen. I will always be grateful for the new scenes you guys drag up from around the globe, but I'll never stop sifting them into love (most), indifferent (some) and hate (few) groups!
So, although I'll never be as PC as you Paddy, I'll always put my opinion forward with a good dose of respect!
Wow is this is an EA Games / SpeedHunters love in :D
Let's all just get along and embrace each others choices and individualties, we dont need to fight we need to join together in perfect harmony, infact we all just need a great big group hug.
Peace & love to all my fellow car enthusiasts be you slammed, rodded, winged, wrapped, chromed, ratted turbocharged, raced, rallied or dragged......I love you all x
Form and function can work together to make great automotive porn. Just look at any Porsche 911 (except the 996). They literally ooze out sexiness. Form over function is probably the most attainable by most civilians. I see people on the streets of Los Angeles who simply drop their ride height and give their car a nice set of wheels. It's a nice and simple take on form over function. Function over form is not something I don't see everyday, mostly because cars with more function over form tend to end up becoming weekend cars or pure track cars like this: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8323/8111112511_6532f25cfe_z.jpg
I'm a lover of all things with two to four wheels and an engine. The only exception is the Reliant Robin. I'd like to thank Jeremy Clarkson for showing me that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQh56geU0X8
I am a petrol-head (with a heart of a Subaru).
"This attitude and open mindedness is in my opinion the only way to really enjoy the complete automotive world." Couldn't agree more. This is the golden era of petrol cars. Because the possibilities of cars you can acquire only increase, for now. However, we might one day lose the ability to put gas in our cars either because of laws and restriction or limited quantity/price. Thus losing the petrol ones but flooding the market with electrics/hydrogen,etc. The problem is that i'm a true petrolhead. Some people use their car as a racing tool, others its more about the charm of the car. In one car its an event to drive, in the other its an exercise.
Spoken like a true petrolhead. Things get even worse when you get to read the auto mags headline like "New 250hp Ford Focus vs Godzilla! " which in turn promotes the adversarial culture in the automotive world. That's where I think Speedhunter is different. The very fact that Paddy, Dino or Larry could be anywhere in the world and be recognized as a " tsupido-hunta! " instantly would mean that their point is getting across and that they're doing something very right indeed.
@cornerbalance Then there is no point to this article. How can form be the function if the this whole discussion is about the dominance of one over the other determining the kind of expression by the car enthusiast.
citisquid cornerbalance How does that make sense? Different cars are built for different things. This article is not about proving one or the other to have "dominance" in the scene but with each individual car. And then for an enthusiast to recognize that difference and appreciate it. Comfort and looks are the dominant traits of a VIP car, Style is dominant for a show car or a low-rider. You think all of those are BS i guess? Then you are a racing enthusiast. Not a car enthusiasts. There would be a clean category for the cars you like and everything else is always going to be stupid to you.
@majik16106 @cornerbalance I agree with you 100%, but the author talked about two distinct categories, form and function and you made them the same, that's all I was responding to, not the cars themselves.
citisquid majik16106 cornerbalance I think maybe we have a language breakdown. or atleast it appears that way unless im misunderstanding. He points to the purpose of a car, and people tend to get into sides on whether a car should look good or go fast. The article is about a divide, because often car "looks" are subjective, it depends on what you like. Speed is always objective, fast is measurable. unbiased. Some people believe cars should not sacrifice performance to look good. It "ruins" the car. Like you said, that style hinders function its BS. Our point, and his point, is that it should be ok to build a car to be pretty, not fast. Some people dont want to go fast, they just want to look good. A car is a canvass. So looks become the primary function. And often, for a lot of people, they try to find a equalibrium. They sacrifice some looks for performance, and some performance for looks. So it goes a little faster, and looks a little better.The article is saying that no matter what, it should be ok. We should learn to appreciate these differences instead of fight about them all the time.
majik16106 citisquid Thank you for taking the time Majik, to make him shut up. People like citisquid are the reason that arguments between these "factions" break loose (see his first post). It's the same narrow-mindedness that let him oversee that the word 'function' in Cornerbalance's comment has a different meaning to the 'function' in context with this article. Trying to twist words in their favour, justifying being a dickhead. And, he's got the attention he wanted, now that is BS.
Paddy, I feel like a lot of your posts are like Ban-Ki Moon mediating the UN of speedhunting haha, awesome
First off this is a rant i started on my Galaxy Note II so before i get sent to the showers by the grammar nazi take heed...
Secondly this is long and really just an explosion of thoughts so to speak there will be holes, and mistakes.
I don't believe there should be any arguments as to what differences people have....because that battle is simple....performance building a car to drive on the edge will always be above the aesthetics...there is no question. WHY? Simply because more skill is needed to NOT die, there is ALWAYS a level of danger, and takes MORE attention to detail to keep something like that on the road and from killing people plain and simple. Function/Performance is above the aesthetics no need to argue and there is nothing wrong if some people don't want to race or drive fast but still like cars! An issue that is truly at hand is that the people like photographers, and trendy "form"/Aesthetics guys have big dick swing ego problems. Held up on pedestal by the population and peers....there is a huge problem with that because its just not on the racer,builder,tuner's level. You just aren't and there is also a simple reason why
INTELLIGENCE AKA SKILL SETS
The racing side requires MATHEMATICS, SCIENCE, INNOVATION and INGENUITYAesthetics side doesn't require those at even elementary level .So it doesn't matter what you like or what style or genre just understand and RESPECT the guys that race and build because its a much more complex game than wheel offsets and fucked up camber. As a side note: Builders and racers shouldn't be dick heads either and should encourage others to strive for greater things than dangerously stretched tires and driving slow so you don't rub.....Here are a few descriptions of the kinds of automotive enthusiasts I've met along the way THESE ARE MERELY GENERALIZATIONS, AND STEREO TYPES so don't trip i know people come in all shapes sizes and fueled by various motivations i wouldn't mind people adding to it. its meant to be funny in a twisted way lol:Internet bench racers: Talk a lot of shit, know about parts, follow trends and generally "PLAN" on getting into a project that usually they cannot handle
Trendy Show car guy: works hard to buy expensive quality parts he doesn't use nor totally grasps the concept of, makes sure car is clean and smells good. makes sure the right CD is in the stereo
Busy Professional(hobby Racer): Works hard buys parts to keep race car on road, PAYS professional shop staff to assist in maintaining vehicle juggles working at the office, kids and wife (or is single and loving it)
Busy Professional(hobby builder/racer): Works hard, spends all free time in garage building project, maintaining project and Racing or spirited driving. Has been devorced, keeps women at arms reach because they get in the way of cars.
EFI tuner: Calibrate Engine management system, incorporate any data-logging, additional control units (boost-control, water injection, Nitrous), Calibrate fail safe systems, Ignition Timing, Injection timing ms, dwell, attack trouble spots in power-train.
Engine Builder/machinist: Checks bores, clearances with quality precision measurement instruments, attempts to consistently meet tolerances of .001-.002. and even into the .000X in some cases. Diggs to find small innovations in power production, Oiling, cooling and Reliability. his final product cannot have 1 thing out of place....
Fabricator: Someone that creates things of various materials. He is a creator. Cages, Sump tanks, Tube Frame chassis. using mathematics in vairous calculations, Mig and Tig welders, Plasma cutters, Torches and various static machinery. works typically 50+ hours a week and loves it.Photographer/blogger: Most haven't actually built a car but has perhaps has turned a wrench or two or pays someone that knows what they are doing to build one for them. Writes about the industry, photographs peoples cars. Somehow his opinions dictate the movement of the industry despite not actually being a part of the CORE of the industry but essentially a well funded enthusiast(by core i mean manufacturer, designer, fabricator, product development, the people that provide the products and tools to actually have an industry in the first place etc) Generally steps outside the bounds of being a person that is supposed to capture moments as they are but provide input and test vehicles with no solid mechanical or racing/performance driving background and is to give feedback to the world. Average Joe builder/driver: Works at mediocre job he hates, wants nice things. sometimes gets them if he sees them on ebay or the forums. Wants more but doesn't really do much to get there....day dreams of better days with more parts but just doesn't muster motivation. Spends lots of time on forums, and telling people about parts that he has on his car that were cheap but they work (but his car never gets driven much or ever) Also has friends that tell him stuff about parts or how to do things or how things works.....He makes sure to let people on the forums/internet know whats up because his friend did it, or his friends bought it and it works...so trust him....
Hard working joe builder/driver: Has a mediocre job he might hate or is ok with. He works hard and extra hours if he can so he can save his money. buys parts NEW or used but makes sure they are actually quality. If he cannot afford something he leaves it OEM until he can get something that wont fail him. Saves up to make it to events. and puts a lot of thought AND ACTION towards his vehicles goals.either way the photographers DO put in work and work hard but dont forget.....there is mingling and hanging out in Daikoku Futo and follwing around awesome fast cars kinda hard work.... and then there is cutting hot metal, welding, getting burned, grinding and lifting heavy items or SMOLDERING in 100degree heat inside a car on a dyno during a tuning session kinda work......so ill just end it at that....
Well said, to be sure, and as is showing in the replies, personal opinions vary as much or more than the varieties of styles. As I got older (I'm 45 now), it became much easier to just NOT care what others said about my, or others choices. It became a cost-to-benefit exercise, with the costs FAR out-weighing the benefits. Many of the current enthusiasts feel the need to spout hate to make themselves feel superior, realizing they are unable to perform the work needed, afford to have the work done, or even make the decision of what they want. In the end, none of it matters- it's YOUR car- Do WHATEVER you want to do to it. Hell, take it to a wrecking yard and smash it flat. You own it? It's up to you.
Great site- love the VARIETY of coverages and styles.
Fantastic Paddy. Got to say, personally I dislike the whole 'VW scene", but I know that if I saw a dumped Golf, I know my eyes wouldn't be taken off it, because whether it has a VW, Ford, BMW or whatever other badge, a car is a car and that is the thing we all have in common and brings us together.
this is why i keep coming back to Speedhunters! no snarky remarks about the cars, manufacturers, or owners. every feature is always positive, with an eye for appreciating what makes the particular car special. there are many car sites on the web that do little more than encourage a schism between the different branches of the Car Enthusiast community. one of the most popular car blogs/sights on the net (which i won't name here, but i'm sure many who visit SpeedHunters know it) regularly has articles, post, and commentators who do nothing but kick sand.
as an all around car fanatic it's very frustrating, we need more sites like SpeedHunters. keep featuring unique, interesting, stock or highly modified cars. let them and the builders speak for themselves. cut out as much of the bias as possible, and just expose people to all the many facets of the car enthusiast community. with a little knowledge and exposure we are all brought closer together.
I would like to respectfully disagree. Or maybe amend part of this argument. I agree with a lot of what you said about our failures to appreciate the other side of the automotive sub culture.
I dont think it starts with form and function though. It begins with education. After that, it comes to pride. IF anything the fact that we, as a car culture, whether it be here, facebook, or some place else on a another forum, have found ways to fight about every single facet of automobile culture proves that there is an infinite number of variables to the culture that can divide us. Stance people fight with stance people. Function people fight with function people. so how does that happen?
Education. People find it hard to learn. Too many websites telling us how great a car is without telling us why. Thousands of young people take to the internet everyday to comment about cars with 100,000 worth of work, built by men who have working with cars for decades, when the posters themselves have almost no experience. And that isn't their fault. What is, is the basic knowledge that they don't actually know very much. Too busy giving opinions instead of asking questions. How many times have we seen FB posts of time attack cars where the top 10 comments are "Awesome car but that wing needs to go." It needs to go? Its aero dynamics, this is a race car, who cares if it looks dumb? That isn't form versus function, that is lack of education. A race car needs race parts no matter how they look. Thats a fact. No opinion there. You can not like the way the wing looks, but you need to recognize its doing a job and if you are an enthusiast you should be able to respect that. A guy commented on a post I saw the other day saying the 400hp time attack Built r32 gtr pictured (thats how it was labeled), didnt need its rear wing because, and i quote, " It doesnt make enough power to need that." he backed off after we posted its tsukuba lap time, but my point was, when did this guy learn that you need a given aerodynamic part for a given power output? The education also can be about culture, history, etc. Like when a 73 trans am is posted with its rear end jacked up and mickey t's are sticking outside the fenders and people start saying that its "mexi flush". How did they come to that? Us southern guys have been building drag cars like that since the 50s. Its a style thats been around forever and you dont see it much anymore.
Which is when the fights start. Two people with no education, fight over something neither understand, or 1 person fights with educated people because of pride. Pride lets you pretend you cannot be wrong. And in the process you fail to learn anything new or meaningful. What we need is education, and we need to get to where young people, new people, etc have a place they can go and get some clear information. Unfortunately you get a lot of the uneducated passing on misinformation and nobody is there to clear it.
majik16106 Interesting point of view. I also think the mentality of the drivers/builders come into play as well. So many times that I've seen unnatural animosity between two k20 powered Civics for example and at the same moment a Impreza sti ginving it's respect to the owner of a 800bhp supra which owned him during a drag race. What I'm trying to say is they could have all built those cars from scratch and have tons of knowledge of what their doing but still there is a grudge between them.
Rens1989 I actually agree completely. I think that is part of the source problem of lack of education, is a lack of responsible leadership in our community. Dont get me wrong, there are great people, including speedhunters, who do more than a fair share of work to promote knowledge growth. However, too many times the guy with the decades of experience, or the wealth of knowledge, is too busy with his own crew, his own car, etc to pass on a little life lesson. I posted before, I see too many frustrated 20 somethings with half finished cars in their garage and they dont know what do next. As a group, the older guys sometimes like to act like thats a rite of passage. Thats crap. We all have some fond or not so fond memory of when things went wrong, we learned from it and got better, but my question is... why didnt we pass that on? Why cant we engage people we dont know, who are seeking knowledge about their cars. Not just how they work, but how they think about them. How they approach a show, a decision, a purchase.. etc. I think you just touched on, we get too busy and too wrapped up in our own crap. Too worried about who we might lose too, or too comfortable with our close group of friends. Too much time saying " i dont want to have to help these stupid kids or answer a million questions." We need to stop. Educate, dont fire back. We will all benifit from it. Younger, smarter people in our scene means a better future. Less people to have "a million questions" and more people to answer them. We have to start somewhere. I can tell you this, around me, anyone who is willing to listen, anyone who is willing to talk, anyone who can admit when they dont know, is ALWAYS welcome. I dont care what you like to drive or how you drive it.
majik16106 Rens1989 but, if the people are educated then surely they'll start to look down upon modifications such as hellaflush that aren't for performance?
Unfortunately, I must admit that happened with me. I started educating myself on why cars go fast and are reliable, and unfortunately (i guess) looked down upon hellaflush and the rust/extreme rat rod scene.I guess it all just comes down to working on a car and appreciating the time someone has spent on it.
aussieANON Rens1989 I don't buy that for a second. Why would being educated make you dislike an aspect of the culture? I have a tremendous appreciation for low-rider culture, VIP culture, van culture, etc and none of those are for performance. The problem is the association that if its bad for performance then its bad for cars. That isnt true when the car isnt meant to perform but to be art. IF you are going to be a "true enthusiast of all cars" then you need to learn to look at things through more than just the "performance lens". What I don't like, and a the fair criticism, is when people claim something is something that it isn't. What you cannot do is say you are doing a feature on a race car, a car with function, and then see it obviously has lousy suspension set up and stretched tires. That happens a lot.
The only other problem I have is when its a car that is "meant to be driven" and its unsafe. When you have extreme camber/tire stretch and you drive regularly without spending the money to constantly replace tires.. i get mad. So many cars dumped at shows, check the tires, completely worn to wire on the inside. You want to kill yourself for being an idiot then that is fine, but when you have a blow out on the road home and crash into a family car.... we have a problem. Looking cool is not worth your life or anyone elses and there is zero reason to risk it. But, a lot of the big time cars, dont drive on set ups that they use at shows. Or.. they dont drive. I think sometimes that point gets lost on people. So high school kids/college kids or people who cant afford to "do it right" just drive around dangerously.
majik16106 Rens1989 I suppose I should've explained myself better.
This is all coming from someone who's dad was a rally driver, and has been making cars better for his whole life (dad, not me).
Finding out and teaching myself what made cars faster made me question why people did things to cars that made them worse. Dealing with old cars that have rust problems and having to fix them made me question why some people would intentionally rust their panels, as they're just going to have to fix it later on, and it basically ensures that the panels can't be used.
Hellaflush and stretched tires I used to think was retarded as you can't corner hard, rub tyres and scrape guards.These are just two examples.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that education isn't the only fix, but it's part of the way there.
I think that really working hard on a car is the best way, as it taught me, to appreciate the countless hours that the people have spent on their cars.
aussieANON Rens1989 The positive is that we can have a calm constructive conversation. This is the starting point. :)
I get where you are coming from, but I would argue the reason you learned to appreciate the cars, is because of education. Education doesn't have to be technical knowledge. You LEARNED to appreciate these cars through the experience of working on your own.
Sure, you were taught early that cars were worked on to go faster. That is a lot of influence to "overcome". Point of fact though, there is nothing wrong with only liking race cars. Maybe people will always hate hellaflush/low riders/vip cars. That is ok. What they need to do, in my opinion though, is stop acting like they are car enthusiasts who love everything about all cars. They arent. They are race car enthusiasts. And that is ok. I only question though, if you know you dont like stance cars, and only functional ones... why "like" stance pages on fb and then troll all the pictures. when people argue back they then get all indignant. " Its my opinion and I'm allowed to have one". sure, but where is the mutual respect? I don't wander into Thai restaurants just to yell about how gross I think Thai food is. I just don't go. And later I would never claim I love ALL food. I don't. I clearly only like specific kinds. Which is ok. Just leave the people who like the other stuff alone. You know? I may not like Thai food, but I can at least appreciate why other people do without feeling the need to tell them why I think it sucks at every opportunity. So maybe I could amend my argument to Education and Respect.
Edit: Thai food was used for analogy only. I have no problem with Thai food.
majik16106 yeah, i totally get where you're at.
It's an interesting problem and one that is sure to create all sorts of debates for a long time.
But; it all starts with small things like giving a thumbs up to anyone, no matter what car they're in, if they're an enthusiast. Example, although I don't want to sound all self righteous and like Jesus, but I saw a VIP rolling down to a meet. He enjoyed his car, I enjoyed mine, so thumbs up, smiles and nods were exchanged.
I personally think this website is making great strides forwards in not focussing on any one scene, and not bagging specific scenes.
For example, I really enjoy Paddy's features on Escorts and old things like that, which is awesome as it's written in the same style as everything else on here (a lot on emotion and deep meaning) and doesn't just list specs like some magazines might.
If only there were more sites and magazines like this, and had positions available....
majik16106 and you know what, the internet is the absolute best place for discussing things like this.
We just had a calm discussion, judging each post on its individual merit rather than on what the other person seems to be like.
You have no idea what I'm like. I could be 12 years old, or 62 years old, but that all means nothing. Same as you could be anything, but none of that comes in to play. It's a lot better than a forum or a physical meeting.
aussieANON Well, thats not totally true. You can see my profile picture. so you know Im actually a fighting robot from the future.
majik16106 That is an absolutely fantastic response. Thank you for taking the time to put that together!
PaddyMcGrath lol. Thanks, best I could manage typing like a maniac in the middle of the night on zero sleep. I was just trying to keep up with my brain.
majik16106 agreed. in my experience general ignorance is almost always the reason for the animosity. i find that when someone spouts off knee jerk hate, or an opion of absolute disgust at a particular style, or type of build, it's better to drop some knowledge about the particular style, or reasoning behind a design than to go tit for tat like, "that sh#t is ugly", or that's so stupid, only an idiot would do that" and so on.
educate the naysayer, if they choose to continue with their logic, it's not because they don't know, it's because of personal bias.
majik16106 This could be applied much more widely than just between car enthusiasts, at least here in the UK.
TomHoward Thats true. When I view comments on picture posts I have come to expect that most of theo comments wont be any more intelligent than the people who comment on political stories on the Yahoo pages. The funny thing to me is, they sign up to see those pictures, they are "supposed to be" part of our culture, not random passers bye. I think its kind of sad. And the lack of educated conversation bothers me. I dont expect it will ever be perfect, but I feel like we could do a lot better.