Here is something I wanted to share with you guys because it is becoming a hot topic. Ben Schaffer from Bulletproof fame just posted a blog post regarding a duckbill trunk made by Do Luck and funded by Bulletproof for the EVO X. I think it's a very good idea that the distributors fund the R&D for making stuff like this, especially in these financial hard times.
What are your thoughts about this subject? You can read Ben's statement on his blog right here.
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i really like the look of this! much better than a wing that sits three feet off the trunklid
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as for the distributors funding development of pieces, i suppose it would be a tough call if i were a distributor. there's the risk that the product doesn't meet expectations, or who knowssss
Very clean, just not for me; if I had an EVO X it would definitely be sporting a huge GT wing, the HKS demo car has it down.
If you ask me duckbill + GT wing!
Appending to STJ's great idea:
Add the wing for Time Attack shiz... Remove and roll with just the duck bill 'round town. Here's to having your cake and eating that MF!
i read about this yesterday. he said there was already people wanting knockoffs.
I also read this yesterday, and i makes me sick that people are already looking for knock offs. That's an awesome trunk, if I had a CZ4A one of these would be on its way to my house, forget the cost.
I'm not going to comment until I know what the price of the piece is.
I think Ben should stick to what he likes : selling ridiculously makred up JDM goods to people with enormous wallets.
Duckbills FTW!!
Though in the case of the EVO X, i have to agree with STJ.
Thanks for the support guys.
As for jblaine's comment here's my response -
If you think $1080 USD (when the exchange rate is a horrendous 94 yen/dollar before bank losses) is ridiculously marked up for a Japanese made and properly designed full trunk replacement in carbon fiber then that's your right to believe what you want. By the way, all of our prices always include freight, duties and insurance to ship the goods to our LA warehouse. Unless you think I'm cranking these trunks out in some factory in China, I dont understand your claim of "ridiculous markups".
this is the link to the price: http://www.bulletproofautomotive.com/catalog-detail.php?ID=6782
As for what my business does - we for 10 years have had a super aggressive price matching policy to ensure that our prices are always the lowest possible. Who else do you know that even offers to price match group buys without any minimum order? If the products my company sells are too expensive, its not because of our doing its just because the goods are high end and cost a lot to buy from Japan. If you dont like that I prefer to sell high quality parts, sorry that I wont change. Beyond that, our practices ensure that we're the cheapest priced of anyone, every time on Japanese goods since we accept price match requests every day..
If you genuinely would like me to get better from your comments, then give me some constructive criticism that I can learn from. I'm here to improve, I've been doing this for 10 years and each year we get leaps and bounds better because we listen and we learn. So teach me something and I'll thank you for it.
Knockoffs, thats the risk need to be taken from manufacturers. But, from rich Evo X owner? You gotta be kidding me.
And, the trunk looks nice, but, i'd also opt for GT wing.
ps-Does that even provide 0.1g downforce?
Great looking trunk! Hope to see more of them.
Ben, quit using your same excuse obout the Exchange Rate being high and "By the way, all of our prices always include freight, duties and insurance to ship the goods to our LA warehouse." Thats your way of covering up your crazy markups. You guys are overpriced, your idea of wholesale sales is that of a 2nd grader. Learn some business ethics.
Dear Smoky Nagata - First off, thank you for the promotion of Top Secret. I do sincerely appreciate that since its been my lifes goal and responsibility for the past 8 years to build the Top Secret brand worldwide. Secondly, I dont understand your perspective at all. We price match on the end user level and on the wholesale level. Our entire business revolves around removing price from the equation and earning loyalty of our clients based on our service and skill at what we do as an importer/distributor. Removing price is easy since we know and our clients know that we price match anyone and everyone at all levels. By definition our prices are the lowest because if they are not, we'll price match whoever is lower. If being the best price everytime is still overpriced, obviously the problem is the parts cost too much for your particular goals. I dont mean to put you down, looking for cheaper parts is respectable to me as well as long as its true to yourself and not hurting anyone (knockoffs). I mentioned before that we even price match group buys on the retail level...equally unusual to that, on the wholesale level we even price match gray market imports just to keep our clients loyal. Try to find another exclusive importer who will price match someone gray marketing their goods to earn their business...you wont. We always match prices on equal terms to keep it fair and to remove price from the equation. Anyway...if you dont like me, just call me some mean name that'll make you feel all hardcore and lovely, and call it a day. Otherwise if you have something constructive to say that I can learn from, I will gladly listen. This stuff is my life man...I take my life's work seriously so if you want to throw a jab at me, at least let me learn from it so I can continue to improve. Otherwise, you can perpetuate negativity without founding or reason...I guess thats what a lot of blog and forums are for too, its just not my style.
Spoken like a true professional!
Its funny how easy it is for haters to bark about high prices but when pricing is explained like this, there is nothing they can really say to challenge it. Its also interesting to see how fast people are quick to blame the business owner for the so called 'high prices' problem. Some people just like to type away without thinking, lol.
I bet if this trunk was priced at $500 and another company copied it and sold it for $200 people would still complain about how $500 is a ridiculous price. You cant win with these guys.
In any case, the trunk is kick ass. I really hope you people learn from the example of high quality. Knock offs are just epic failures. Especially on a high end car like an Evo.
I live in the Caribbean and it's a lot more expensive to buy stuff from Japan or japanese products from the U.S. than what u guys in the U.S pay considering that our shipping charges are more. Further more, the duties a distributor has to pay also jacks up the price of goods. Most of the exclusive Japanese parts aren't brought into the country in bulk like how other products are brought in wholesale. Therefore prices will always seem like it is a lot
I buy things from Japan and the U.S. for persons in my country and people always say how expensive stuff are but to combat those stupid comments i tell people to get the same good that they want themselves. They either can't get it or if they can, it costs more than what the distributor is selling it for. So i believe the average public just likes to talk shit, plain and simple. Every business has to make profit but not everyone is out there in business to rip you off. If they are, their businesses don't last long because everyone realises it and doesn't support it. So lots of you on blog sites and yahoo who consistently and proudly talk random stupid things sometimes knowing nothing about cars or products should do things yourself and then come back and talk.
Go ahead, i dear you to get exclusive Japanese parts out of Japan yourself...see how much cheaper it will be than the distributors who already sell products to you. Fools
The trunk lid or deck lid looks pretty good. But that goes just for asthetics. Does it provide any downforce?
As for the whole knock-offs thing I can't stand them personally. I see fake VOLK TE37s and it causes such a rage inside me. Then I laugh on how the owner bought a piece of fake crap. VERTEX says the same thing about their products.
A business can sell their products at a fair price and turn a profit. That is what a business is supposed to do. You as a buyer don't have to buy the real thing. You could buty a fake. The real part makers and distributers won't stop you. But everyone will laugh at you later. And depending on the fake part you bought you will pay for it later. Either in part failure, safety issue, or be everybody making fun of you.
Looks nice
This type of bootlid is the latest in the same designs from Do-Luck. Its also available for the GDB Impreza and Evo 7-9 as well as the R34 GTR.
What you dont see is a picture of it from the inside which is where it set's itself apart from any other and certainly any rubbish knockoff junk, equally impressive is how it jst bolts on without any messing around, the true signature of why Do-Luck is so exclusive and slightly more expensive than rival parts of differing designs.
As said already, you can buy knockoff of anything but, its not the real thing and will not be the same, much the same as a LV hangbag for your wife, those that want the real thing, buy the real thing and appreciate the quality and status of owning the real thing, its about personal choice and valuing your car and individual modifying concept.
Nice, it has a retro look to it.................really clean............not a big fan of those huge GT Wings on street cars...........now go make one for my FC!!!
Thanks guys. I really didnt want to see this be about me or my business. The real conversation is the quality of the trunk and the issue of knockoffs making it nearly impossible to continue innovation.
I welcome all constructive criticism of anything at all and I'm happy to answer any and all questions, as always. You can email me privately ben@bulletproofautomotive.com or you can bring it public here or on my blog if you'd like.
I keep most of my business out and in the open (aside from some obvious industry secrets that are inevitable). I've been running my business in this industry for a long time now (relative to the longevity of most businesses) so I don't really have any secrets or apprehension of answering any criticism in public.
I dont quite understand the hate coming at me on this thread by the two different (or maybe the same commenters), but I'll try to understand it if you can present it to me and hopefully I'll learn from it and fix it. A large portion of my life has been dedicated to this industry and doing things in what I feel is an ethical and responsible way to help the industry flourish. I really don't understand the hate because I'm not in this industry to cause any trouble.
Andy, Thanks man. To all of you in the UK, Andy is your man for Do-Luck. Andy is a true friend to Do-Luck and one of the big reasons for their long term longevity in the industry. I hope that someday I can help Do-Luck as much as Andy has but those are big shoes to fill.
PS: the trunk for the BNR34 is my favorite of all of the Do-Luck trunks. That HKS demo car in Advan's booth at TAS with the Do-Luck trunk was flawless! One of the best GT-Rs ever.
Ben, again, your replies are just evidence of your Arrogance and Douchebaggery. You are so full of lies. You have never EVER EVER price matched anything for me on a wholesale level, yet you expect your wholesalers to sell the product for full retail. I hope the real truth comes out about you. I know you pretty well, and I'm not the same guy as the other guy in here who think you are a complete tool. I don't have enough fingers on both my hands to name the examples of people who you have screwed with in your own Schaffer style. I have other importers who can beat your prices (on the first try) and yet they are thousands of miles away, they have to pay twice the freight that you do, yet they still always offer better pricing. Again, if only people knew the real Ben Schaffer, they would realize what a joke you are. Why is it the people that have known you the longest, have the worst things to say about you? Coincedence? I think not. Awaiting your fake-ass lying reply.
Seibon is already in the process of knocking off this piece.
True Story
Smoky Nagata - I think we are not going to agree on this one. Since you say everything I say is a lie, there is not much of a point of replying since you are set in your opinion. I just know the facts to be what they are since I have multiple wholesale customers who buy from me in JPY rates as direct price matches to gray market suppliers in Japan and outside the US. I sell to them, I ship for them (when they request that service) and everyone is happy. Being an authorized US agent in most of those caes, I am not obligated to do things like that, in fact I probably shouldnt...but I do it somewhat often, as needed and as it makes logical sense to do so.
My only guess is that perhaps you have either A. Never worked with my business or B. Worked with my business years ago before we've improved our processes and started doing some of these things. (I cleaned house a couple of years ago and since then we've refined everything we do to new levels). Otherwise I dont see how you'd be attacking me publicly for things that are not true. Either way I understand that you wont agree with me because you have something clearly personal against me. I can live with that and of course you're happier going on and calling me a douchebag, so go for it...have a blast. Thats cool, I can take it. I cant please everyone but I do my best to do the right thing and to learn from my mistakes.
PS: If you genuinely care - why dont you email me or call me and we can resolve whatever issue it is. Maybe you'll have more fun trying to insult me publicly, and if so, that's cool...go ahead and have fun with it. But if this is actually a real topic you're talking about I'll tell you now that I dont hold grudges and I'll be happy to work it out with you. People grow and change, I dont hold the past against anyone if they're willing for things to get better in the present and future.
Ben, this is ultimately all about business.
If you make a profit on this venture, you're doing something right for your business.
If you don't, then you've learned a lesson. Hopefully you can pinpoint what that lesson was and learn from it if that happens.
In the meantime, the reality is (in my eyes) that none of this conversation matters. You won't cause any pause for those intending to knock this off, nor will you bring forth a wave of change in the mindsets of parts purchasers.
We've all heard this woe-is-me story before from other companies.
Your part, as a businessman, is to prove in your future product description re-write and images why a customer should consider your product instead of the knockoff. Customers who care about the point(s) will buy yours. Customers who don't care will buy the cheaper one. Unless you bother to make the case clear, nobody's going to give a crap.
Companies who chose to cater to niche markets have to accept responsibility for their business choices.
The other point to all of this is a never-ending brand/country recognition vs. practicality discussion. Here's one of a million examples: My old Rota Sub-Zeros weighed 17.5lbs each in 17x7.5 size. I beat the ever-living shit out of them for 5 years straight in Boston, 20+ autocrosses, and 2 track days at Sebring. What's the argument for having purchased legit Racing Hart originals at 2.5x the price? This discussion is ENDLESS.
And I'd also just like to point out that this trunk is not innovative in the least.
I like it. Innovative? No.
It's the same damn duck-bill trunk Do-Luck made in short run for the WRX/STI, but for an Evo X.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c276/kenji815/DIY%20Trunk%20Cover/4fb7b1b4.jpg
No Ben, we aren't going to agree, because obviously you aren't going to publicly admit fault to your shady ways. You are just going to avoid the obvious. You aren't going to learn from your mistakes because it obviously comes natural to you....as its evident in the way you conduct business. I have worked with your biz both in the past, and in the present, and IMO not much has changed. I just hope this serves as a warning to some potential "victims" in the future, and an eye-opener for you. And just FYI, I actually like Bulletproof as a company (I am indeed a car guy, and your parts list is probably the most complete out there), it just seems I have a problem with the way the business is conducted and ran.
Distributors funding manufacturer products can be a good idea as distributers can judge customer demand for products and make suggestions to manufacturers. On the other hand if that distributor becomes the exclusive distributor of the product that could lead to higher prices due to their monopoly.
That's very true worker bee...exclusivity is definitely what you don't want in any industry. Monopolies milk people dry until someone else steps up to the plate to take on the competition
Oh jeez, why do people always complain on damn message boards or blogs.
Smoky you should just call Ben and talk to him about ur complaints. Seriously whats the point of spilling your grief here? Stop E-Thuggin' and just call him up or something.
The whole point is knock offs suck regardless of who sells the original parts. Of course in the end its up to the consumer, but I definitely cant stand people that actually want a fake product.
Think about it, would you buy ur girl a fake coach bag if she really wanted the official one? If you're normal and actually gave a crap about her then you probably wouldn't. So why short change yourself/ur car when it comes to buying things for yourself?
lookin right
Wow, you guys stop bashing Ben, Look YOUR NOT GETTING AN AUTHENTIC CARBON FIBER PIECE FOR "$500". This isin't a ebay or seib*n "cf" hood or trunk. Its so annoying people don't take into consideration the research, the preperation, and the cost of the actual materials itself.You honestly think its that cheap to make a carbon fiber piece?? STOP FAKIN IT AND COMPLAINING PEOPLE. Think about all the useless garbage you fill up in your homes. If a person wanted to really commit to buying a piece like this they would save up money... $1000 and some change for a CF trunk from Do-Luck is not so bad. People just mismange their money and wanna half ass when it comes to their car. You shouldn't even be reading speedhunters, or modfying your car. Do yourself a favor and buy a bicycle if your gonna be champange spending. Your making the rest of the decent tuners in America look bad.
It's unfortunate this discussion is here. I have a lot more arguments, thoughts, rebuttals, and cases for consideration, but unless I'm sitting in a room full of people who are open-minded to objectively consider them (and me consider theirs), it's pointless.
Later.
I'm traveling to visit clients for the next two weeks so this will be my last comment here. Its been fun to hear everyone's opinions and to share in the discussion with you all. I mean that genuinely. WIthout places like this to discuss the more complex and difficult issues, they would often go undiscussed and instead people will just believe whatever they're told to believe by the big spending advertisers within the industry. Blogs give a voice to the little guy (like me) who may have something to say but dont have the $10,000k + to buy ads to say it in the magazines. Agree or disagree, thats up to you...but it is the conversation that matters more than anything else.
To Smoky Nagata - I welcome your phone call mid June when I return (or today if you like). If you genuinely mean what you say (that you dislike how the business is conducted for whatever reason you may feel), I suggest you call and talk to me personally so that there is a chance to fix whatever concern you have. If you don't call me, I cant imagine your concern really matters much to you and I'll just assume your comments here are some personal vendetta you have against me. I can live with people hating on me because I'll never be able to please everyone, but I cant live with a lost ability to learn and improve my business. I always am looking to improve, and I welcome your phone call if you genuinely want change and are willing to explain to me how to better my business.
Back to the topic of retailers/distributors funding R&D:
If Mr. Schaffer got a "bulletproof" exclusive contract from Do Luck, his decision to fund the R&D might not be disastrous. Ignore knockoffs or counterfeits, retailers and distributors who fund R&D usually get screwed by the manufacturer, who takes the money for the initial order, makes twice as many items as were ordered, and the surplus becomes their warehouse stock, that they turn around and sell to anyone and everyone. The guy placing the initial order and paying all the R&D costs has bore all those costs, and wants to recover his investment, only to find that every other retailer on the planet now offers the same identical item without the additional cost of the R&D. That guy that placed the initial order usually gets to sit on the initial production run, because he can not afford to sell the item at a loss to compete with all the other retailers, who are using the manufacturer's warehouse as their stock.
I have personally wasted in excess of one hundred thousand dollars repeating this pattern with multiple companies, before finally learning my lesson, taking all design and production in house, never allowing any one complete product to be produced in one step and by one manufacturer, instead manufacturing in multiple pieces or steps by not less than two subcontractors, and marketing everything under my own company's name, instead of trading on another company's name.
It's a terrible world we live in that a business man has to take such extreme steps to protect himself, but I stopped funding R&D for the rest of the world about seven years ago, and stopped loosing my butt in every transaction right about the same time.
All the best in your business efforts, just make sure to protect yourself.
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