While I’m only a recent convert to the world of the Porsche 911, I still feel like I have to get something of my chest.
Last weekend saw Porsche officially announce its new 911 GT2 RS at Goodwood, following weeks of peculiar responses from the German automaker’s PR department, denying the existence of such a car. Despite the fact it was unveiled at E3. And it was parked under a cover for three days on Porsche’s stand. Anyways, I can live with that.
I can also live with its looks, although the new GT2 RS is not something I would call pretty or even beautiful. In fact, I do think it’s a bit ugly but that’s okay, too. The aesthetics appear to be dictated by function, which is something I’m sure we can all get along with.
There are certain angles where it’s at least alright; the rear three-quarter view is where it maybe looks its best.
I don’t hate its performance, although I’m not a fan of so much been hidden from view on the current generation of 911s. It makes 700hp from a turbocharged 3.8-litre flat six, with the power being delivered to just the rear wheels. Its capability of 211mph (340km/h) is one thing, but its ability to sprint from a standstill to 124mph (200km/h) in just 8.3 seconds is eye-watering. So, it’s fast.
Some will bemoan that it’s only available in dual-clutch PDK trim, but I’m perfectly fine with that too. I have driven manual 911s and I recently drove a PDK-equipped GT3, and I would take the dual-clutch option every single time. In my experience, the only people who speak out against DCTs have never experienced one, or are those strange types who consider the ability to drive a manual as some sort of sacred ability that only enthusiasts can perform. You’re not some sort of special driving super hero if you can drive a manual. My mother can drive a manual, and she hates cars.
So, PDK is perfectly fine in this instance.
There’s no doubt it’s going to be a very good car, if not a great one. I think that’s obvious. Porsche has perfected its rear-engined platform and this might just be the pinnacle of the 911 lineage. So, why should you hate it?
Well, for a start, hate is too strong a word, but I do think that you should be at the very least mildly disappointed. That wouldn’t have made for a very eye-catching headline, though.
The GT2 RS is going to be a limited run, which means pretty much one thing: it’s going to be ferociously expensive. Maybe not off the showroom floor, relatively speaking, for those lucky few, but in years to come. It’s almost certainly going to become another unobtainable example of the 911, along with the 911 R, 993 GT2 and RS Lightweight, amongst others.
By limiting its run, Porsche is emphasising its collectability and in-turn is practically offering it as an investment, rather than a driver’s car. It’s actively contributing to the problem of cars being bought solely as investments so the rich can become richer. How many of these cars will be driven as intended? How many more will be tucked away in private, only to pop up at an auction in 20 years time before vanishing again? Some of the greatest driver’s cars of all time, being sold to a market that doesn’t want to drive them? The irony is superb.
These are my reasons why you should dislike the Porsche 911 GT2 RS. Not because it’s a bad car, but because you will be lucky to see one, let alone drive one. Owning one? Well, you might as well forget about that.
There’s also that awful, awful mesh grill. But that’s another rant for another day.
Paddy McGrath
Instagram: pmcgphotos
Twitter: pmcgphotos
paddy@speedhunters.com
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I think the car looks good, not sure what your talking about saying it's not a good looking car.
Your username contains the kind of irony Paddy's talking in the article lmao
A Ferrari 250 GTO is a good looking car. It's sleek, elegant and doesn't have lots of bits stuck to it. Don't confuse cars you like or admire for being good looking.
Case in point: The MG Metro 6R4. An ugly, UGLY car but also incredibly cool, amazing and desirable at the same time.
I think MG is OK
But Fiat Multipla is one Ugly sonuvab#ch lol
You're crazy. The MG Metro 6R4 is beautiful! It's mother says so all the time. Lol
But yes, very good point. While the car is unattractive, it is very desireable. The MG Metro is the "We're just friends" of the car world but gets all of the flirting without any long term commitment.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!
This thing does 0-200 faster than my car does 0-100
To be honest, I think this car is actually very pretty. I found all the matte black aero parts be very cool and apealing. I understand what you are saying about the car that It might become a trailer queen or just another expensive toy in the shop but I think the car will be driven at its full power all the time, at its full potential.
A standard GT3 is an infinitely better looking car, IMO.
There's zero hope that all examples will be driven as intended, plenty for sure will vanish into private collections. Or worse, be driven in first gear around Knightsbridge.
Your argument for why you hate the car is complete bullshit. Your mad because porsche denied that the car was being produced like if no other company has lied about producing a rare car. Then you complain that they are making a limited run and that it's going to become really expensive after it goes on sale, how many companies today can guarantee an instant increase in sale profit for a brand new car? Compare this rare model to ferrari's fxx program with cars that are illegal on public roads and you cant keep them in your garage and lets not even ghink about how much they cost. Then your next complain is that all cars are not going to be driven like they should, how is porsche responsible for that? That is the most irrelevent comment I have read on sh. Since you stated that you were new to the porsche world please educate yourself on the company before making such a statement. Porsche was a company that when it came to status was looked down upon when compared to other big names and now that they have created arguably the best 911 you are going to hate on them?
First of all, you're just wrong about the XX Programme cars. It has been discredited multiple times that they are track-only. Ben + Christine Sloss (@yonly65) and @gonzal092 have both told and shown us that you can bring the XX cars home.
Second, "Porsche was a company that when it came to status was looked down upon when compared to other big names". Um, what? Porsche has ALWAYS been the top dog. The Italians went running for the Dolomites when the 911 first burst on to the scene (before you were born).
Third, "Your [sic] mad because porsche denied that the car was being produced like if no other company has lied about producing a rare car". Evidence? Please point me to a manufacturer that's done that. The closest is McLaren being hush-hush about the BP23, which it has since confirmed.
Your unfounded opinion is the one that's bullsh*t.
my friend i am wise beyond my years and would make you look like a rookie when talking about porsche. Porsche has always been the top dog but because the car was not as flashy as a lamborghini or ferrari it wouldn't receive the attention it deserved until it was time to perform where it destroyed the competition. I stated facts not an opinion so your paragraph and the other opinions in the article are bullshit. How can the article state that cars are not going to be driven as intended and that porsche is limiting their run on their best 911 to date to raise the price of the car, there is always going to be people who baby their race cars which has nothing to do with the company who built them. Porsche didn't release production numbers early on in an effort to prevent people from flipping them.
Haha this is too fun Anthony. You make my day
Ok a few things.
You did not state a SINGLE fact or statistic in your comment. It was all fluff and asinine questions thrown at Paddy. Second, what I said about the XX Programme is TRUE, look it up on the search engine of your choice.
"it wouldn't receive the attention it deserved until it was time to perform where it destroyed the competition." What does that even mean??? People FLOCKED to the Porsche booths when the 911s were first coming out. The design was stunning and the driving experience was second to none. They were more reliable than their Italian counterparts.
"How can the article state that cars are not going to be driven as intended and that porsche is limiting their run on their best 911 to date to raise the price of the car..."
Um, EVERY high performance 911 has been limited run, dating all the way back to the 3.2s and RSRs (wouldn't expect you to know what those are without looking them up tbh). How can the article state that cars are not going to be driven as intended? BECAUSE ITS A FACT? That's why. Just look at the hundreds of leaper videos from Knightsbridge etc of any supercar of your choosing and you'll see that those cars aren't being driven as intended.
If you're really wise beyond your years, I'm not seeing it.
I mean...I don't think you should fire that many shots but whatever. It;'s about opinions and liking more then anything.
Or in 4th gear at 1800 rpm in Paris.
Yeah it's ugly. The front bumper is uninspired. I'll never see one so I don't feel bad lol.
I've no idea what they were thinking with that mesh. They could have even just painted it black and it would have been miles better.
Kinda flimsy for a car with that much CF parts lol.
Well, I guess I should start hating on the F40, the 959, 918, the Muira and every other performance car that has become collectible. Unless the point of your article was just to rile people up, which you would never do.
They're very different cars, although I find it strange that you've included the 918 in there. The F40, 959 & Miura are all cars that have earned their status as some of the greatest cars of all time, they're bonafide legends and its understandable that they have reached peak unobtainable. They were game changers.
The 918 was designed and a built as a hypercar, a car to push the boundaries of what's possible. It'll earn its status in time, but it started life as a million dollar car, so there was no doubt that it was always going to be rare.
The GT2 RS, and the 911 R to a similar extent, are being purposely built in small numbers in order to create an entire investment market around them. The 911 R was ~£135k new, they're apparently selling for £400k+ already. What reason do Porsche have to limit their numbers other than to inflate demand to obscene levels? It's not as if they have a shortage of 911 shells.
It's about the money nowadays and giving rich people something to spend their money on. That's like me getting butthurt on Supreme making limited shirts just because I can't get one. It's just about the money at the end of the day. You're hating on a car because it's rare and overpriced...the car itself is great. Read those numbers again and tell me that sounds like a bad car. And looks...gees...this car looks better than most out there. I agree the Gt3 looks better but this is not ugly by any means.
why does ferrari ask more than 6 million euros for the laferrari aperta when all it has is a fabric roof that will come off at 130 mph? Who put's a speed limit on a hypercar?
I think you're the one who frankly needs an education.
Most Aperta customers ordered the stowable carbon fibre roof. No "flying off at 130 mph".
Second, no one puts a speed limit on a hypercar. The rules are bound by physics and engineering--that's why the Chiron is such a marvel, because of its top speed capabilities.
This is fun. Keep trolling
Maybe I should have used the Carrera Gt instead but my point still stands. Those cars aren't legends because of race pedigree, they are sought after for the same reason this car will be, bragging rights.
I don't think this is being built to be a drivers car. Its basically a vanity piece to show how far they can take this chassis and drive train. They build plenty of other "affordable" sports and track cars that they know will be used accordingly. They aren't doing this to inflate demand, they make no profit from people flipping cars. http://blog.caranddriver.com/porsche-plans-crackdown-on-gt-car-speculators-and-flippers/
I agree. Those cars were in part created because the execs knew the money was out there.
I don't believe the F40, Miura or 959 et al were purposely created for any other reason other than being the best possible cars they could be. Fair enough, your reasoning that they're sought after - today - is probably accurate. But they weren't created for this, it just happened that way.
The GT2 RS is a brilliant car, but there's no justifiable reason why it's being sold in such small numbers or why they haven't just put it into production to try and meet demand.
They might not make profit directly from this practice, but you can bet your ass that they're selling a shit load more of their more mundane cars because of it. Which is fine, they are a business after all but it just feels like an underhanded tactic. Plus, it's not doing their brand any damage and here we all are talking about them.
I remember that a few months ago the found a BMW 1M with only 7000KM on the ODO, and it was just "thrown" by its italian owner in the garage (maybe he did not like it you know he's used to Ferraris and Lambos).
My point is, even i'm not a porches fan, the problem stands in the owner/collector seeking these cars: back in days they did not buy the car to make a life investment well maybe very few but not in the huge current rate.
That makes no sense for Porsche to do that intentionally, it's not like they are pocketing anything from private owners bumping the price up after they buy it for sticker.
Of course it does, it creates demand and hype around their products. Can't buy a GT2 RS? Well, take a look at this GT3 RS right here...
Its amazing how little people understand about basic business tactics and economics....
Perhaps they don't need to....
Do your Mom heel and toe ?
She probably could, because again, it's not that difficult.
Maybe not, but anyone who says nailing a PERFECT H&T isn't damn near the most satisfying thing you can do while driving isn't living right IMO.
I do actually agree on the PDK in the GT2, it's too fast, too brutal, and would probably end up in a ditch sooner with manual. I disagreed with the PDK only on GT3 though, that's a car for enjoyment and driving satisfaction it should always be offered with a manual. I don't begrudge PDK (or other DC box) owners, if they want laptimes and aren't interested in manual shifting that's cool with me - hey, it's their car after all. I just don't like the idea of manuals not being offered to those who want them. It probably doesn't help that your average knightsbridge-knobhead who buys the fastest car because he's made of money, and not because he likes cars always buys Dual Clutches, which skews the sales figures unfairly towards Dual Clutches.
I'd like to add that I've experienced PDK Porsches first hand, and even driven a Cayman Cup car with a built PDK... and I still prefer standard trans. It's not a matter of bragging about being able to drive one, I myself couldn't care less about flaunting my abilities... It's more about my own personal connection with the car and the thrill I get driving it. It's a choice of presence between speed, feel, and convenience that I think is solely dependent on what the user wants out of their experience. The death of the standard trans is disappointing, but I accept it. DCT technology is fascinating, and the idea of doing things manually in this age is becoming archaic in a sense. Besides, standard transmissions are more enjoyable in the classics anyway.
Great point, Rob.
Maybe I need to drive something more exotic with a paddle auto / DCT then my old man's 320D Touring but I struggled to stay engaged. Having a go in that, I stuck it in sport with all the aids off and manual mode on the box, and after a few miles I just couldn't be bothered using the paddles to shift because it felt no more connected than a Playstation, and then when leaving it in Auto it felt like I wasn't paying quite as much attention to driving as in a regular manual. So I'm not really a fan - as good as the Auto is, manuals all the way for me. Though maybe if I drove more than the 20k a year I do, I'd appreciate an auto more.
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"
Personally i like everything about the car except the front bumper, maybe a different livery would change your mind Paddy? maybe not, but for some people it is a good looking car.
As for the Transmission comment.... le sigh... for some people driving cars with a manual is about the experience and connections you have with the car. sure its not a magical skill and lots of people can do it but for some people its about being more connected to the car and thus more connected with the road, for some people its simple nostalgia. That being said in this car with this power levels, the DCT is pretty much mandatory unless you want to be changing clutches every month or have a clutch that is pretty much useless for mundane street driving.
finally to the limited run, Porsche is a business and this car is purely a business move. No, most of them wont be driven and yes Porsche wont make any money off of their secondary sales but by limiting the number of these produced they are keeping the prices of every other 911 in the secondary market high. This is always how Porsche has operated, look at the number of special editions they have put out in limited numbers, especially the ones with the RS designation. Porsche is one of the few companies that is very in tune with their brand and their owners and they understand that putting out special editions like this drives desire for even the base model 911 in their consumers eyes. As you said your self, the shells are all the same and some of their customers enjoy having a larger parts bin to pick and choose components to upgrade their own 911's with. So sure they wont get driven, but how many cars that have sticker prices above 150,000 get driven regularly or in the spirit that they were designed to be driven? my estimate is less than 10%, its a better financial decision to leave a car like this in the garage and spend 50-60k to buy a dedicated track car that one could walk away from should it be involved in a wreck. So please don't "hate" a car because of simple economics and business models, Porsche's business direction is what has kept them at the top of the sports car market even though their flagship model has the engine in completely the wrong place (and even they know it given the change in the RSR racecar)
I've been looking at the configurator, and I think 'my' GT2 RS would have to be all black, as it hides the jarring carbon details. If somebody had modified their GT3 in a similar fashion to how Porsche have released the GT2 RS, they would be laughed at. And rightly so, IMO.
Regarding the rest, I don't disagree with you. I'm just tired of people shouting down PDKs without understanding why cars are offered with them. As if manuals are the - only - option, and if you don't drive a manual, you're somehow a lesser human.
Porsche is more of a bank that just happens to make cars.
Also, for your £200k base price, you only get "leatherette" and its bright red, so you have to pay £2k for black leather seats. And £20k for all the carbon bits and a non-FIA approved rollcage. And one of the special-order colours is called Crayon. Bananas.
There's a difference between choosing to not drive a manual, and not being able to drive a manual well.
Having a skill someone else does not have, does kind of make you, if not a better human, a more talented one...
But yeah, the preference of either when both are available as an option from the manufacturer and as a skill from the driver is not reflective of talent levels. Just taste.
but paddy, you ARE a lesser human being if you dont know how to drive manual! lol. Ok so that is just my opinion but haven driven a couple high horsepower cars both in manual and automatic manual (there is a difference between DCT and an old fashioned automatic) i can say that some cars just have to much horsepower to make a foot operated clutch worth it, its either going to be too hard or not able to handle the torque or horsepower for inner city speed driving.
This, exactly this. Chances are better than not that most owners of these cars will not be driving them on the track, if driving them at all. That being said, for any kind of low speed maneuvering or, gasp, driving around town, a standard clutch that could safely hold this kind of torque would be mostly unbearable for all but the most hardcore enthusiasts, and even they would grow tired of it, methinks.
That mesh is bad, but can we talk about Porsche's years-long obsession with throwing miles of black plastic on everything? I first noticed it on the 991 Turbo S, it has some stupid active diffuser or something under the front, which means the splitter is something like 4 inches tall, of just solid black plastic. It looks like an RWB car that drove over a kerb backwards. Then the 991 GT3 had pointless black plastic on the rear bumper, but that's a track car so you can at least pretend to write it off as sacrificial plastic
But now this? This car looks like they're gunning for the Chevy Avalanche body cladding market, and it's awful. I'm all for form following function, but not when you could have form AND function by just, keeping the paint gun on until you've painted the whole body and not just the top 80%.
On the bright side, Porsche is allegedly trying to crack down on people buying their limited cars as an investment. So long as they aren't lying (which, ha), you might start to see some changes there. But I wouldn't hold my breath, especially not on this one. Those idiots won't drive an N/A 911 with under 400hp for fear of devaluing it. 700hp with turbos? Not a chance!
I don't like this one because it looked too similar to the GT3 RS. (Especially that rear spoiler and front fender vents)
To me, this version is just putting all performance packages together making it an animal but lacks its own character.
The PDK detractors must also take into account the drivability, or lack thereof, a 700hp street car. In most cases, unless you are shelling out big bucks for a triple or quad disc carbon clutch, the requirements to hold that kind of torque are more often than not non-full-faced puck clutches with unsprung hubs. In other words, left leg torture.
The low speed and traffic drivability of those units is practically non-existent, never mind for someone who is not experience with a third pedal. That can of course result in collateral damage to the rest of the drivetrain, and a very expensive bill at the dealership. So, Porsche likely thought, why take the chance?
Broken flagship cars are definitely not a good thing for branding and sales, regardless of driver error or factory flaws. PDK allows Porsche to build in a failsafe margin of error of sorts, while still maintaining blistering performance. Working cars equal happy customers, and working cars equal no extensive mechanical repairs or replacements under warranty.
I'll be the guy that chimes in and says it wouldn't need so much power if it wasn't so obese...that way it could have a real gearbox
Why? Is a PDK imaginary?
Eloquently put.
In the name of transparency, I have not yet driven any late-model PDK cars, so take my 2 psi with a grain of proverbial salt, but I sincerely cannot imagine Porsche would put a half-hearted box of any variety in their top-tier car. In fact it seems they want their cars to be used exactly what they are designed for, so the bite must live up to the bark.
"Limited run"???
Okay, going back to the good old 997 GT2.
I'm not sure this is the case actually, it doesn't seem they have set a number. Here is a quote from Porsche GT boss Andreas Preuninger:
"We don't want to leave too many customers wanting. We don't see a reason why we should limit the car. It's limited logically by production capacity - you won't see 5000 cars on the street, it's simply not possible. It will stay in a very exclusive bandwidth for sure. This one is going to be built for a year roughly, maybe a little less than that. Then production will be finished."
Apparently they will build around 1000, which ironically is not like the previous GT2's which were limited to 500-700 depending on generation. The large price hike (~15% in Australia) will act as its own limiter.
The car is quite astonishing. I like the looks of it and the performance it develops, though I was always disliking the current 911's. I quite like the new 911 Targa though.. I am a strong fan of the 80s and 90s 911s, but this one would tick every box for me, had I had the money to buy one. Though the new manual 911 GT3 sounds a lot better, just because it is a manual.
Great car. Article seems off to me, particularly hating on the aesthetics of the car and the limited run. If that was the case, we should hate on the CLK GTR or even the GT One from Toyota. Heck even the Superbird and Charger Daytona. These were all race-intended homologation cars, of course they won't end up looking as refined or as coherent as cars built from the ground up to look beautiful while incorporating functional hardware such as Lamborghinis and Ferraris, or even the LFA, do. These cars were "based" off of actual showroom models (save for the GT One), improved to varying degrees (Superbirds received aeros, CLK GTR became a flying car) with equipment necessary for their intended use. All that R&D obviously is expensive, hence, the limited run because most of these flagship, top-tier cars aren't meant to collect profit, that's what the Panamera and Cayene are for (for Porsche anyway). These cars are meant for racing, and at the same time, to inspire the owners of lesser-trimmed models of the same car confidence in their own cars, maybe even bring them to replicate the modifications done to these cars on their own, but that's their own choice.
There was a time when people hated Porsche for putting on whale tails and scoops on the oh so beloved 911, but how else were they supposed to improve the handling given the major power increase that came with the addition of turbos and fuel injection without drastically changing (993) the car.
I salute Porsche for this gorgeous car they brought out, and hopefully they continue to do so in the future.
I've no idea how you can compare bespoke chassis cars like the CLK GTR and GT One to a 911 chassis car. Very different beasts.
When Speedhunters start telling me I need to hate a car....... Buhbye!!! I mean, Porsche ain't my thing, but don't go around making random articles about why people should hate a certain. People wanna love it, let them right ahead. But is just a lame article and an attentiongrab. Kinda sad.
Have you actually read it?
Yes, I did. Still think it's pretentious and attentiongrabby. I mean, basicly all of the supercars you guys talk about on this site will not/cannot be owned by your readership. And dude, you guys write articles about how it's so important the car scene goes back to simpler times and shit, but then we should hate a car Porsche made because hardly anyone can own one? Same goes for many Ferrari's and Lamborghini's. Don't you see complaining about that! But hey, fine dude. We'll hate this Porsche. Just because you feel we should.
I think you've got me mixed up, whether on purpose or not.
I think it's a great car, but by Porsche purposely marketing / selling it in limited numbers to drive demand and create an entire investment market around it, it at least deserves to be discussed. Fair enough, the title is pure clickbait, but I want people to come and talk about this.
At the end of the day, this is a Porsche 911. It's not a Ferrari, it's not a Lamborghini. It's always meant to have been the supercar that mere mortals might just some day afford.
It's better than any Ferrari!
Well, it's a 911, as is a Carrera, but it is after all a GT2 RS - I think, mere mortals (I.e. those on an average-to-good salary) would never afford it anyway, no matter the specs, investment market, production numbers etc.
keep up the good work
Bit like calling a Clubsport S "a Golf" in the same way as a 2.0 TDi - it is, but the normal market for Golfs will never see one, far less own one.
not to worry though, I came here for the photos
isn't the whole idea of being a journalist, particularly a photo journalist to be "attentiongrabby"?
if it wasn't "attentiongrabby" then he wouldn't have a job...
I am a Porsche fiend, and i disagreed with almost everything Paddy said (i really dig the car but you are right with numbers tho) but everything Paddy writes is merely his opinion.
you could always go and read Dolly or Cosmo, i'm sure they aren't opinionated at all...
Man everyone has their own opinion, but this one I can not relate to at all..
Must be one of the dumbest articles on Speedhunters yet.
And no, driving a manual isn't hard, driving it as fast as a PDK or DSG is. As someone who has experienced both and is currently driving an S3 with DSG I can truly tell how much easier it is to go fast in an automatic. Yet it lacks emotion imo and I hope I can pick up a project soon enough to get back into stick shifting.
The problem is, in most cases, you cannot shift as fast as a PDK or any other DCT. They have their place, as does the manual gearbox. An emotional connection is subjective.
I completely agree and have sent numerous letters to Porsche. They advertise like one can purchase but it is exactly as you say, unobtainable. They should do a full production run like the gt3rs, where there was 6000+ units made and all the fools who bought one think they are limited as that is verbatim from the salesroom floor, yeah only 500 gt3rs's made, BS.
I'm impressed that people still send letters.
jaja, good point... email.
My desire to see high res pictures of the GT2 won over my moral principles of rejecting clickbait titles like "Why I hate the blah blah blah".
Love the GT2, but still feel dirty....
I feel dirty too, if it's any consolation. But it's the nature of the beast these days,
I know of one that will be driven like its supposed to be and I might be lucky enough to unwrap it and work on it when needed. I love my job sometimes.
I will salute any person who drives it as intended.
Surely someone will drive it at Goodwood FoS next year.
Porsche drove it at the FoS this year, think Mr Röhrl drove it Sunday afternoon?
Recently a previous generation GT2RS popped up for sale near me for around $450K USD. Surely the ask on the used market will be in the same ballpark when these do start getting flipped. But does anyone actually buy them? I swear all the Canadian-sold GT3RS cars are posted for sale perpetually, rarely if ever selling. Keep in mind there are hardly any tracks in the country.
Now, lets say you do have that kind of coin to throw at a used car. Would you buy a extra-fast 911? Or would you buy a true exotic. At this price range, Ferrari & Lamborghini & plenty of lesser-known brands have more wow factor. McLaren has the wow and a carbon monocoque. I'd even argue a Carrera GT is vastly more cool than this GT2RS for similar money, if you're a Pcar person.
Sure it's fast, reliable, and I think it looks great. But for the hypothetical money, I'd be shopping elsewhere.
I'm a fan of function over form.
You legit want to try and defend the argument that it doesn't take more skill to operate a manual transmission versus an automatic? There are driving techniques that you flat out cannot do without a clutch pedal. It seems short sighted to make the claim that someone doing more than you to accomplish the same goal doesn't possess more talent. That's like saying Chris Harris and Naoki Nakamura are doing the same thing.
That is absolutely not the argument that I was making.
How exactly is someone supposed to interpret; "or are those strange types who consider the ability to drive a manual as some sort of sacred ability that only enthusiasts can perform. You’re not some sort of special driving super hero if you can drive a manual. My mother can drive a manual, and she hates cars."
Maybe we have two different definitions of the word drive but I imagine when us nerds are talking about THE Porsche of Porsches, driving means the ability to pilot your vehicle to it's limits and not the ability to make it to Walmart without crashing.
Paddy who's your flame suit sponsor?
At this point, I don't think even NASA could make one up to the job.
I kind of agree and disagree with you. It's quite obvious, but this wasn't exactly made to be a showroom car, so being a bit ugly on some angles isn't too bothering. Though, it really feels like someone at Porsche shouted "Let's put some carbon randomly on the car" while in the process of designing the car, which kind of ruins the whole thing to my eyes. For instance, that hood is absolutely appalling. Other than that, I just love the rear of the car, it somehow reminds me of the race-inspired kits from NFS Shift (http://www.nfs-mania.com/images/pages/shift/preview/nfs-mania_nfs_shift_porsche_911_gt2.jpg), that rear splitter was as aggressive as possible! As for the mesh grill, it's supposed to be a car made for the track, so I don't see any problem here.. given it's driven on the track.
From the moment I saw the title I thought "Paddy back at it again with another divisive post."
I loved the last-generation GT2 RS. Hardcore car, not avaliable to most people. I loved it even though I still havent seen one in the flesh. I'm also not too sure why you bemoan the fact owners will likely not drive them. The racecar is not driven *today*, so isapparently never going to be driven?
This doesnt make much sense, to to simplify: I disagree
It's my opinion that while the GT2 RS is designed to be an amazing car, by all accounts, the marketing and sales push behind it will ensure that it's only being aimed at collectors, who won't drive it. That's what irritates me greatly.
First of all your article made me think about a thing or two. I guess this is always good, especially from an authors view, because you reached my mind and created something I didn't just pass by.
In my opinion you should have gone with a less polarising caption. Of course you're grabbing attention and clicks, but on the other hand a title containing "hate" and "Porsche" may very quickly turn the comment section into a battlefield containing biased views and opinions. Going with something like "Questioning limited editions" would have make you appeare more professional and less buzzfeed.
After reading your article, my mind was like "yeh he's right somehow. Creating a car, limiting the number and offering it to the price it is offered will draw a lot of the rich owners who buy it, put it under a blanket and wait for the price to increase." And I find that as shitty as you. Seeing Porsche putting so much effort and know how and high quality materials into a car and then realizing only a fraction of the potential this car can offer will ever be used just makes me sad. After that followed "but it has been always like this, so why is Mr. McGrath now putting attention on it?" and I asked myself if the way it always has been until now is a justifiable one. I haven't found a conclusion yet, maybe that follows in the near future. Considering what has once caused this way handling expensive rare cars my mind quickly was overfilled. Mainly I would agree to you saying that it's a strategy to increase the demand for cars and driving the business into solid black numbers, still part of my naive brain think that in some way manufacturers try to create things for eternity, legends so to say, where Porsche already has some experience in, taking the 959, Carrera GT or 918 in consideration.
As the aesthetics of cars are always judged differently from person to person I will not refer to this part of the article, because it adds nothing except for arguments that lead to nothing.
I'm now after finishing not sure about the meaning of my comment, but I hope you understand my point and my English as I am German. Maybe we need cars like the GT2 RS that we will always dream of but never drive, because imagining that everyone could constantly fulfill his or her dreams, I think no one would strive for anything any more.
Brilliant comment, Luke.
For the record, I'm not a fan of the title either (although I did choose it) but it's just the way that online media works now. It's designed to provoke a reaction, and I think it's doing a pretty good job at the minute. It doesn't necessarily wholly reflect my opinion, either.
PS: I love Project GTI, keep it on. <3
I really, REALLY hope that at least a small handful of these things will see a proper thrashing at the track. I hate it when people only buy cars like this for use as a status symbol/museum piece and nothing else.
I think we all do, to be fair.
Let me guess: the worst part is that it's PDK-only. How heinous.
You're going to feel silly when you actually read it.
Huh. Looks like I tuned that out on the first pass. To be honest, I thought the PDK-only bit would be a bigger point of contention, especially after the manual-only 997 GT2.
So now I have to get something of my chest. First of all I'm not here to bash your article and I definitely agree on your standpoint. I still got something to say. I don't know why People are calling this car ugly all the time (saying it looks like a cheap after market tune), I personally think it's one of the best looking Porsches of the 991 line, but that's a matter of taste. You know for most of us even a regular Porsche is unaffordable, so your point doesn't have the same impact to me as maybe for you. There are so many limited edition run cars, why is this one annoying you so much (out of real interest not to provoke you)
And then there are cars that can be accused of that even more. Let's take the Bugatti Chiron it will cost 2 or 3 million €, it looks even worse than a Veyron (never considered the Veyron a beautiful car), it's the most unimagitive follow up car I can think of because the design hasn't changed radically (especially after Bugatti saying they ar building something really different this time, I bet Diesel gate cancelled that plans) and still the price of this car will go up nevertheless. I actually saw one driving around in germany two weeks ago, it doesent have much presence (at least to me, I bet few will share my thoughts).
From an aesthetic point of view, I just think that there's too much going on with the GT2 RS. Fair enough, most of it is functional, which is fine. But, they could have done a much better job integrating it rather than making it look like it was stuck on afterwards. The carbon trim against the silver paint, along with the silver 'U' stripe is all a bit too much. It looks way better in all-black and without the Weissach package, IMO.
Paddy, I definitely agree with your assessment of the limited production run issues for cars like these and many other exotics. This issue also becomes apparent when vehicles are only "offered" to a special select few, ala Ferrari, owners being picked before the car is even mentioned to the public type of thing. Just as you said, the first owners certainly won't ever drive these cars like they are designed or intended, though this can be argued is fine, due to people being able to drive and modify their vehicles however they feel is special, it just creates a gap where these vehicles will never be attainable to people who could even afford them while new, much less after their prices have skyrocketed. After such a rise in price, they will more than likely be driven even less, and certainly not in anger. Why not offer the vehicles to be made only by order, run it for 2-3 years, and only make what each one when someone comes in a dealership and orders it, this would still limit the number significantly, but it would allow more owners to purchase the vehicle that would actually utilize it for more than a hedge fund.
I do have to disagree with your assessment of manual transmission drivers however, I will gladly pick the manual version every time. Not because it is some holy grail item, or feeling of superiority for the ability to drive one (though I think this is important that others should at least know how to operate one in emergency situations), I like manual transmissions simply for enjoyment, for the tactile feel of the transmission clicking into gear, and the audible metallic sounds of it moving around. I know it will be slower in nearly every case, I am fine with that, I will only ever be driving my own vehicles for my enjoyment, or to test my own ability on a race track, never for money. If I am driving for money, I use my pro-am car, even when driving the vehicle on a track, I am still improving my own abilities, the car will be a certain speed however it is equipped or modified, my skills will always be what improves, and what allows me to unlock the full potential of the vehicle. I won't be accessing that last few tenths between a manual or DCT transmission until I have my own abilities, and my own abilities with the car, so a very long time. So if I am not driving it for money, I want to enjoy driving it, the manual will always be more enjoyable for me, becoming intimate with the vehicles abilities and quirks will take quite a while, so I am not concerned with the last few one hundredths of a second per lap that the transmission will give, enjoyment, and being as fast as "I" can be is what I find important. I know that isn't what is important to others, but not all of us think of vehicles, modifications, or options in the same way Paddy, so please don't assume we all think one way man.
If you live in London, or any city that has a lot of traffic, then you have to be fairly committed to chose a manual over a dual clutch flappy-paddle gearbox thing.
This is obviously my fault for not properly explaining myself, as you're not the only one who interpreted it that way. I have no issue with someone who wants to drive or choose a manual version, and there are plenty of cars that I've driven where I would take the manual model (GTI Clubsport being the first that comes to mind). I just have a problem with people who can't seem to understand that PDK and other dual clutch transmissions also have a place in our world, rather than dismissing them out of hand for no reason other than they're not manual gearboxes. I think it's an ignorant opinion, usually held by those who have no real experience of either.
Paddy - DSG Clubsport all day long!
I'd have the new Golf R in DSG, but the GTI Clubsport in manual. Maybe the nicest manual gearbox I've used in a while.
It was almost as if Porsche knew that making a few physical copies of car is of no relevance to almost everyone they may as well release it digitally in a video game.
It's not pretty, but it is beautifully aggressive. Not sure about the mesh, either. But, like has already been said, you'll likely only ever see the back of the new GT2 RS... Or just not see one at all!
....but the new GT2RS will not be "limited production".
It is, and all 1,000 have apparently sold out already. So I guess this whole discussion is a moot point.
I have heard rather convincing contradictory reports on that front.
....get the rant though. It is an interesting situation, regardless if limited or not.
It's listed as 'limited availability' on Porsche UK's site, although that could be a temporary notice.
I hate 911 GT2 RS because Porsche skipped normal GT2 and also because it's overhyped. I mean there were rumors about it lapping Nurburgring in less than 7 min. before it was even revealed. They hyped it so much, so they would sell them as quickly as possible.
what the market does after a car like this is sold, isn't Porsche's problem. They've said they plan to address - what I like to call, the scalpers - who sell these cars marked up. Buyers see this happening with cars as practical as a Civic Type R - and all that tells me is that dealer networks are doomed. If I was an automaker, I'd wonder why I even needed dealer networks, when I could sell direct to consumers. So I feel like cars like the GT2 highlight the fact that the middle man doesn't deserve to be in the mix. And whoever buys these cars and tucks them away - so what - what do I care? I can't buy a GT2. I'll be happy to at least see one - I'm probably more likely to see a GT2 than a F40 anyway - and I'm not terribly upset about it - nothing against an F40 - just being real here. People acting full retard over the Porsche brand right now - whatever - with Trump as president, I've got no hate left for anything else bro
Let's watch some legend show up in a GT2 RS at Tsukaba or Fuji International
Or more than likely the Nordschleife.
The GT2 RS has always been my favorite Porsche model. Performance wise, this one will again dominate the 911 line up. Aesthetically... not so much. It really doesn't look like a cohesive package. All of the pieces of the exterior look great separate but, putting all of this together looks terrible. Older GT2 RS cars looked as if they were designed as one single unit. This looks like Porsche had a team design the front clip, a team for the spoiler, and a team for the rear end. The worst part is definitely the front end.
-Alex
I'm glad that I'm not the only one who sees that.
They finally gave it a proper wing.
I fully agree with what's said here. By making it a limited edition run, Porsche is making it 'exclusive'.
This makes the car highly valuable as the years go by. Also, many people who buy such 'exclusive' cars only tend to treat them as 'pieces of art' (similar to the Lykan Hypersport in Furious 7).
Meaning only a few of us will never be able to see one in the flesh, fewer still will be able to drive one and enjoy that experience and only a few people who are truly lucky to get this car will actually use it properly.
Porsche has not changed the way it has produced or marketed their cars since the 40's. GT2 have traditionally been a limited production model and thus the 991.2 generation is as well. The entire "collector market" is what has in fact destroyed the ability to enjoy these vehicles. So many people that claim to be true Porsche enthusiasts have bought the last several generations of GT3 and first gen GT4 after wimpering that they deserve a ca rat MSRP only to see them being flipped months or even days later for a $50-150k profit. It is these people that creat this market of dramatic markups. There needs to be a delicate balance of slightly increased production and a system to punish "offenders" of flipping cars for profit. It is as simple as if you buy a car and sell it within a year for profit you are black listed for life from buying another GT car. As for the styling Porsche has never followed the status quo of design and it has led to what is most likely to single most recognizable design in automotive history. Anything with value whether tangible or perceived will always be traded as a commodity, thats just human nature. All we need to do is protect humans from themselves and keep these cars out of the hands of those who are speculating and will not drive them. The folks at Porsche are clever and will surely find a way to please the enthusiasts and hopefully piss off the pundits along the way!
They have certainly changed the way they produce and market their cars.
It is interesting that they say that they're upset and aghast at the current 911 bubble, but then they go and do this which surely only adds fuel to the fire?
I feel completely trolled by reading every word of the article. The car looks ok but isn't it normal to make exclusive cars? Who really cares? If you can't afford a supercar off a showroom floor BUILD YOUR OWN. It's much more satisfying. Plus all your griprs seemed silly, that's the only reason I decided to respond. Nice pictures though:)
I think it's normal to build 'exclusive' cars when advanced manufacturing techniques or exotic materials are required, especially when they're coming in at a huge price point. But the GT2 RS is a 911 with a turbo engine, the only reason it's going to be exclusive is because Porsche have decided it will. It's their prerogative if they choose to do this, but it goes against all of their talk of fighting against the speculators.
Yes it goes against them a little but not much. They make plenty of models for the average consumer still, that's why I feel like this issue is overblown right now. Not that it isn't valid....
“It’s not a limited-edition but it will [like the GT3 RS] be built for a limited period of time,” -Porsche Cars Australia spokesperson Paul Ellis.
Apparently they're building them for X amount of time, not until they reach X number, eg 500cars made then stop.
The other responses I've heard from Porsche sounded quite promising to me. They were apparently quite disappointed with the profiteering going on with the 911 R.
Some excerpts from the profiteering article:
“That goes against the very spirit of our company and the very reason that we build those cars. We’re an engineering company that loves to build top of the range and exciting performance cars, we’re not a marketing company.”
“For us it becomes annoying when we see those cars used as a commercial asset that someone’s trying to make money on. That’s not why build cars."
Source: http://www.motoring.com.au/porsche-to-clamp-down-on-profiteers-107743/
Sounds like they've admitted that this is actually a problem, and hopefully there may be some changes to lessen the likely-hood of speculators purchasing the car just for investment.
Dear Porsche,
My name is Paddy and I wish my heavily modified Golf GTI was a Porsche. Even though a lot of the parts for my Golf have been presumably supplied and fitted for free through Speedhunters sponsors, I do not feel the sense of entitlement that I feel I deserve. I deserve the same entitlement as those that can purchase a GT2 RS so you should start offering them at a price that I can afford. Maybe we could do a swap, my Golf for your GT2 RS, or even a plain GT3. I know a lot of vendors that would be happy to spec it up to something like GT2 RS level for me for free!
Yours Truly,
Paddy
I'll happily swap the GTI for a GT2 RS, if you're offering. But, you've completely missed the point of the article in your rush to try grab some attention and +1s in the comments.
Couldn't have said it better myself....complaining because they made something so awesome that it's not financially possible to offer it in high numbers and low prices, what a princess. I'm sure he must hate the new Yellow Bird too then....everything should just be cheap and accessible, how dare manufacturers make something so special that it can barely be produced.
Oh winge winge winge there are a myriad of Porsches which can be driven "like they should be" it's not like porsche isn't offering GT3's or other absurd performance models you don't have to be guilty about thrashing. Just be happy they made this, jeez, it's like a Lambo Veneno vs a Aventador....lambo makes both for a reason, everything has it's purpose...
It's really not like a Veneno and an Aventador. A GT2 RS is a considerable step up in performance from a GT3 and GT3 RS.
Horrible piss poor clickbait Should we all hate the 962 because only a few were made? Garbage article. SH needs to take out the trash...
Yes, because the 962 and GT2 RS are the same sort of deal.
It was just a poorly written article and kind of a stupid topic to write about. You're seeing that in the comments.
I'm seeing people talking and debating, more so than in any other recent post. What makes it poorly written? That you don't like it?
This was intended as discussion piece, and it's done exactly that. Now, whether I agree with the sentiment in the article is another thing...
I can see your point and i remember the rumour a while ago that Porsche were going to try and stop the flipping market for the 911s so they get used how they're intended to, looks like that's out the window then.
The one good thing about Goodwood FOS was that it saw some of the rarest cars getting used how they should be. David Franklin springs to mind driving the wheels off the Ferrari, that was a joy to watch.
I very much doubt you'll ever see one of these on the road, they will no doubt go into collections and then be sold about a year after release for 3 times the list price and then sit in someone's collection again. You'll get the standard press stuff lording it up about how brilliant it is but i doubt i'll ever see one go down the road.
Maybe Porsche could offer some of the chassis tweaks on their lesser models.
I forgot to put I was watching Chasing Classic Cars the other day and a 911 RS Flachbau Turbo S came up on there. I can't remember the year but it looked like a 90s car. This car was a limited run of so many and was valued at way north of $1,000,000.
The real shame was that this great looking car had been driven less then 2000 miles since it was built.
Doesn't it make you think what's the point?
Very much so. I'm with Magnus in the "get out and drive" camp and have done around 10000 miles in my Porsche this year including a trip to Le Mans last month.
If you guys go to Le Mans next year there's a great meet at Saint- Saturnin where most of the guys going to Le Mans stop. The cars there range from modern sports cars to your exotica but the best thing is most have been driven there from a fair distance away. It was so nice to see so many cars being used as they should be, one chap we were talking to who came in a 90s 911 had been coming for the last 40 years and the last 15 in this particular car.
Car Craft magazine, of which I read far too much, used t have the motto, "drive it or sell it."
They were right.
Paddy you're sure it's a limited run? I think I heard otherwise...
It's limited af!
I had read that it was limited to 1,000 units which have all been sold, along with Porsche's website currently stating the car as 'limited availability'
Ok, now I understand. We also have to keep in mind that Porsche is still a "smallish" manufacturer, and that there are much more customers for Carrera 4S Cabrio's than for GTx cars. Market forces...
You must be retarded, period!
You've clearly met Paddy, then!
That's an intelligent contribution. Well done.
Amen Brother!!
Well put.
paddy you must have a death wish , you should never bad mouth a widow maker .
It sounds like your mad because your too poor to buy one , instead of moaning about it do some work earn more and you may afford one one day .
All widow makers should be black .
beauty and look are subjective but people in glass houses should not through stones , you know it looks alot beter that any bagged golf in history infact any golf ever made, if you cant see this try pouring beach in your eyes i think this could really help you out .
The gear box thing too makes you sound like your not really into this and you dont get it , its like someone saying you can only have coffee and but you like tea , who cares if its 0.6 faster if i could afford one and porsche dont give me a option then id buy it rip the pdk out and put a manual in and a hydro thats just me , bet you thought no one would do that to a r35 but look at them .
I used to look after a widow maker they are amazing cars if i had the money id have one ten mins ago .
Disgusting behaviour.
So you would rip the PDK gearbox and just bang in a manual into a GT2 RS? When you've come back down to reality, please let us know.
i know it sounds crazy dont it and the hydro always need one of them , can you not remember that one that used to be in formula d ? people do this sort of thing all day kind of like riveting wide arches on a old 911 to make it look like ones of these older sister.
this is the reality that i live in everyday you wouldn't believe the things iv done and will do to porsches any car infact , if your ever over in leicester your welcome to come to by my workshop and i can show you
I wish one day, this commenting system would stop logging me out when I press "submit"....
I do agree, Paddy. Though a milder headline would have probably spared you from being spit roast by your own readers ; )
The whole "sold out before it's announced" thing really annoys me. Not that I can afford one, but for those that can, they usually have to buy second hand, and will have to live with a car specified to be "unique" or "rare colour combination" by an investor that wanted it to be different from the rest.
Just put it on sale when it's ready, and see who puts up money first. Likely, theres a few people put there who can afford just one fast car, that would sell their kidneys for a chance to get this. And that sort of buyer would be much more likely to drive it.
If they really want to make sure it's being driven, just require proof of an active racing licence. I'd like to see what kind of racer would manage leave this alone in the garage...
Ah, but a milder headline would have been overlooked
Article – Why You Should Hate The Porsche GT2 RS
Comments section – Why You Should Hate Paddy McGrath
Hahaha. Brilliant.
Accurate.
OK I'll join in. Is there a character limit on the comments box?
Paddy.... I have driven DCTs and modern autos on track and off and have concluded every time that its a waste of a car without a manual. Yes they are faster and way easier to drive but after 2 laps on track or a few min on street its just boring..... its that simple. I have come to learn that most people fall in love with DCTs after driving somebody elses car but never get to drive em for days weeks or months. Thats when folks realize "damn should ve bought a manual".
You are right on with the rest of article about collectibility. Porsche is going to kill itself with this BS. $100k for used GT4 caymans means you barely see any on the tracks anymore and the brand is living in investor garages. Horrible.
A lot has been written recently about Porsche and their 'limited edition' investment cars, reality is Porsche is a business and if they can hoodwink people into thinking that 1000 of anything is rare then good luck to them and even more fool the people who then pay 'overs' to have the emperors new clothes, personally I'd take any manual GT3 over this and pocket the change. This will all come undone fairly soon imo.
I'm quite excited for it to be honest. The car is absolutely cracking, but what I don't like about it is the way it has been and will be treated, just like you said about how it's more of an investment. Didn't Porsche say they were going to do something about it though? I also think that it's really weird that while we first saw the car almost a month ago at E3, they basically regarded it as being fake. Very annoyed as well that it was under the cover for most of the days, I didn't get to see it when I was there on the Friday. Theses issues aside, I think that it will be an amazing thing to drive, but I'd personally still have a 991.2 GT3 or a 1972 Carrera RS. Amazing photography as always!
I used to really not like Porsches, but thanks to this site I want a 964 Turbo.
Air cooled, baby.
Is this real? One of the strangest reviews I've ever read.....
But it exists, it's pushed technology, it's a halo, it will trickle technology down. It's a showcase for engineering. They will be driven by people who can afford it...just because we're mere financial mortals doesn't mean they won't be used by those who aren't. It's relative. Have you ever looked at @andy74b on Instagram to name but one?
And the people that buy them to invest: fine, better than putting it in boring stocks and shares.
Also, the manual thing: it's about feel and operating something, an extra level of connection with operating a machine...it's not a willy waving competition for being a driver.
I think you've utterly missed the point...
The review just seemed very biased, especially with regards to design etc. The car is another amazing example of Porsche continuing to push the envelope and format of the original 911. I get that they've created a unicorn that not many can afford or even come close to in "real" life. And that you will see investors similar to the 911R, Cayman GT4, GT3RS...limited cars being marked up and resold or hidden away in a garage to barely see the light of day and not being driven as they should, or as we would. Unclear about your manual comment...as I think a manual, regardless of performance, should always be offered...even if for keeping the drivers truly connected to their cars. In the end, I just thought the review seemed a bit off from the very start...but hey, just my opinion.
Which you're perfectly entitled to, and since you've managed to elaborate why, I respect too.
I think it's an awesome car, but like someone else below said, it looks like the team who designed it were kept in different rooms and they just stuck it all together at the end. It just could have been so much better. I've no issue with manuals, I just wish people would see that PDKs have their place too. ?That's all.
To each is own on the design, I can see your points, car is definitely radical and to me as close to a cup car for the street as you can find from Porsche. PDKs definitely have their place even if strictly from a performance standpoint. They've become so fast that you could never shift that quickly. I've driven the past three iterations from Porsche and they continue to improve...for street use, I prefer a stick. Either way, good dialogue and enjoy the weekend.
You hit the nail on the head.
These cars will all die slow, horrible, wasting deaths in heated garages, as their non-driver owners show them off to friends and brag about how few miles are on them, how they've never seen rain, snow or the upper half of the tach, how the poor thing's still wearing its original tires and how they have all the paperwork.
The attitude that every owner of a limited-edition, collectible or otherwise special car - from initial purchaser to fifth owner - has some kind of responsibility to preserve the vehicle in as close to showroom condition, with as few miles as possible, so as to ensure that it isn't damaged or devalued is hateful to me.
I don't care that generations of non-enthusiast lawyers and doctors yet unborn want a flawless survivor to spend a hundred billion Future Dollars on at Barret-Jackson in 2086.
Cars aren't investments - they're cars. Use them, enjoy them and repair them if they get wrinkled. Run them into the ground, but don't let them waste away.
Don't play Let's See How Valuable It Becomes If I Never Drive It. Instead, play Let's See If That Speedometer Is Honest.
I've long thought the best way to sell a vehicle like this would be to make each potential buyer pass a driving test in the specific type of car they want to buy - a chassis set aside for the purpose of evaluating applicants' skill levels.
To clarify, I may have said "driving test," but I meant "pretend you're Ken Block shooting a Gymkhana video."
If they can't get the practice chassis around the test course properly, they can't have one - at any price. They can come back and try again, but this time they're skunked.
You see, this would ensure two things. First, that the owners are actually competent to handle their new cars and second, that ownership is exclusive because it takes more than money to get one. Sort of like becoming a Green Beret - you need the selection board's opinion that you're WORTHY.
And isn't exclusivity the whole point at this level?
Also, it means that the new owner is an actual enthusiast that'll enjoy his car the way it was meant to be - by being driven.
I figure that details like payment are minor. Once I've established that you can actually drive that thing, you can pay in fives if you like.
I'd prefer it that way, in fact - I love a good story. Get creative.
But if that's how you enjoy cars isn't that OK? Just like lowriders do lowriding and detailers do polishing and 4x4 drivers go off road. Maybe some people just like collecting them because they are lovely things.
And I say that as a man who gave back a company car to drive a 31yr old Porsche every day for 20k miles a year....
I like you.
I like you too...
Horribly I think I've just become a keyboard warrior. Apologies internet.
Well, that's gone well.
Future generations will read about the great Paddy roast of 2017 in their history textbooks.
i don´t want to join the discussion between manual and dsg ( paddy you´ve got a mk6 with dsg , i ordered my ED35 with a manual
)
but to the point ,that those raceready porsche´s been hidden away instead of taking it to track, what the quintessence of those factory builds is
I would like to quote 2 senteces of Mr Prenuninger himself in an interview of caranddriver not long ago, that there ,maybe ,is change in the game
“If you’re flipping cars, then I think it’s understandable that you won’t get on the list for the next car if we have more demand than supply”
“It’s not a punishment but a strategy: to supply the cars to the customers who will really use them. I think that’s just fair.”
...and we all laughed at "The Fast & The Furious" for it's silly car styling ideas. Park bench-size spoilers? C'mon now...
Well, the design is not as aesthetic as a Lamborghini or Ferrari, but it's agressive and functional, I LOVE IT, but wow Paddy, you really broke my heart with this story because it's true, in fact we all car guys should then hate all exotic cars... You are damn right and I haven't thought about this in such a way. This kind of perfect machines are only gonna be driven for about 3K miles (that's a lot) and then put on a private museum wich is gonna auction it in 30 years for 10 times it's actual value to a weird rich guy. This is very, very sad, and even if they do exist some billionaires who really care about cars, there must be the 1% of all the buyers of exotic cars. Now, can we all sit down and cry for the future of this marvelous cars?
Why do we have to read this crap on SH? You must have never raced a car on a track and blipped the throttle on a V8 downshift at 110 mph. F*** your automaggot trans. Next thing we know you'll be extolling the virtues of the driver-less car.
""Some will bemoan that it’s only available in dual-clutch PDK trim, but I’m perfectly fine with that too. I have driven manual 911s and I recently drove a PDK-equipped GT3, and I would take the dual-clutch option every single time. In my experience, the only people who speak out against DCTs have never experienced one, or are those strange types who consider the ability to drive a manual as some sort of sacred ability that only enthusiasts can perform. You’re not some sort of special driving super hero if you can drive a manual. My mother can drive a manual, and she hates cars.""
I like how many buzzwords you tried to fit into that sentence to make it seem more macho. What if I've rev-matched downshifted a flat six on track? Does that count?
Also, you don't - have - to read anything.
Sorry man but you're talking crap about people who prefer manual, which I would hazard to guess is a majority on SH. So If I don't like your slide toward the weakness of handing over control I either haven't driven DCT or I'm strange. So back at you, with that comment you are either trolling or ignorant.
I love almost every models made by Porsche (including 996s) but this might be the one I would not look for more. Sure it's interesting performance-wise, but it looks like it has the front bumper ripped off from late 90s JDM style body kit, and lower half of the rear bumper cut from Audi's. In short, there's too much decorations for a Porsche. As much as I'm disappointed with the looks of it, I hope for something cleaner in the future.
I dislike it because when it came up the hill at goodwood the driver tried to chuck it into a donut, the traction control promptly converted that into understeer, the guy then turned the TC off, got about 1/2 way round and again was stopped...
That's not a real GT2 in my opinion
I think that was down to operator error, more than anything.
(GIF sourced from Jalopnik)
But still, a GT2 is supposed to be wild without TC, if you want safety, buy the turbo.
I mean, not feature TC at all
Not going to happen in this litigious age.
"...the only people who speak out against DCTs have never experienced one, or are those strange types who consider the ability to drive a manual as some sort of sacred ability that only enthusiasts can perform. You’re not some sort of special driving super hero if you can drive a manual. My mother can drive a manual, and she hates cars."
F**k yesssssss
The real reason you should hate this car........it's nearly an exact copy of the outgoing GT3RS.
Id rather just modify a 991 turbo S instead of spending ridiculous $$$$$$$. Yes I know its awd....blah blah blah. I'm practical and don't like to burn cash, big whoop.
For most of us on the streets the benefits of paddle shifting will never be utilized. Driving is really boring for an enthusiast without having a few extra tasks, pressing the clutch, changing gears, blipping the throttle just right to make it all smooth. It gives a driver a relationship between themselves and the car on their commute where all they do is hit 35 mph before coming to another stop or wall of traffic.
If you're in an automatic all you do is press the gas and brake like buttons, and the car might as well be an oversized toaster, since it has been relegated to the function of a toaster. This is why the normal manual only guy loses his shit about auto cars. They just won't have the same connection to the car.
" In my experience, the only people who speak out against DCTs have never experienced one, or are those strange types who consider the ability to drive a manual as some sort of sacred ability that only enthusiasts can perform. You’re not some sort of special driving super hero if you can drive a manual. My mother can drive a manual, and she hates cars."
I think you're misinterpreting the whole hate for DSG gearboxes over manuals here.... I hate these DSGs because they reinforce the idea that fractions for lap times and 0-60 numbers are more important than the actual joy of driving the car. You say you're disappointed in the GT2 RS because it seems like the main purpose for this car is to be a collector's car, most likely not to ever be driven hard or enjoyed. Now isn't the whole DSG being fractions of seconds faster than a manual the same concept? These gearboxes are surely faster, which gives the car "better" stats, but don't these stats only reinforce the on-paper value of the cars, and not the enjoyment of driving? Sure, blasting around a track, snapping your paddles, and maybe getting a fraction of a second faster around a track can produce some joy, but the enjoyment and connection with a car through a manual gearbox brings on so much more. I've driven a few cars with DSGs; 2016 bmw4series, 2017 audi a4, 2005 audi a3, and despite how nice and new (and fast) they were, I still would prefer to drive my POS daily 5-speed (2005 saab 92x).....
That mesh grill. They took the ugliest part of Porsche's GT Kit and put it on a standard car... Just why.
I agree with the the statement that purposely limiting numbers is ridiculous as there will be a lot of cars out there that will never be taken to their full potential. However you will always have enthusiasts like "salomondrin" who have the money to buy the cars and a passion to use them. For example he owns a 675lt with mso options, a carrera gt and a 911 r and they get driven. I for one would follow that example if I was ever in the position to own something like this, use it for what it is and not as an investment. Still wouldn't buy a 911 though as I think they are ugly as fuck
I'm fortunate enough to be chosen. I placed my build last week. I WILL be driving it, as I've driven my 991 GT3, my GT3RS, my 991.2 GTS and my soon to receive 991.2 GT3. These cars don't belong in the garage, beat them, they want you too.
There's nothing wrong with this car that a bright colored wrap and a MANUAL trans won't fix.
So you hate because your never own one? Lol. Also I would have a manual over any flappy paddle box, and yes I drive both regularly in my job, manuals are just much more involving
Dude, you are so wrong, it's cringy, hell you are literally the problem on the premiums. Porsche will sell as many GT2RS as they can if people want to buy they will sell more GT2RS than 991 GT3RS (they sold a shit ton of them), that's why there isn't a plaque with the number of units. People like you are the ones falsely claiming and reinforcing the narrative of scammy stealers, that Porsche will make a limited run, they fucking won't, the only limitation they will have is production, they can only make so many, that's it.
Porsche is a bit pissed with flippers, that's why they made a second run of the 991 GT3 RS, that's why they offered the 991.2 GT3 in manual and they will offer an R like a car (maybe even with an LWFW), called touring pack, no Clubsport, no spoiler, manual.
Porsche understands that people that actually want to buy the cars to drive, should pay THEM, not some shady broker and with a premium, that will take money out of their clients' pockets that could very well be redirected to a nice Boxster or a Macan or even the 2.
There is a functional reason for the mesh grill. Makes it easier to get rid of all those dead bugs or anything else that gets in the way when your going 200 mph.
I thought the GT3 RS was limited to 991 with, apparently, 6,000 paid-up deposits in the UK alone. I have sat in and revved the GT2 RS at FOS, having shown the staff an email of my order and deposit placed nearly 2 years ago (quite a while before the mere hint of production). I was somewhat relieved that PDK was the only option am I am quite happy to take Porsche at their word i.e. too much torque/power for manual. I would have gone PDK regardless and would doubtless have been told by purists I had made the wrong decision. Looks are completely subjective although much of what you see is a quest for speed, grip, performance etc. My son made exactly the same point re spec it in black. Both of us in eye-shot of the GT3 (in red) could see the aesthetic point some have made in the above comments and again, whilst subjective, you can picture a black GT2 RS masking some of the visual pop. I like it as is and in the silver and apparently you can change the red interior to, say, black. I get the premise of the article. I am probably not going to be offered an allocation of this car despite wanting one for so many reasons (and I would actually drive it fairly regularly and keep it for many years). There's nothing for any one to hate about the car per se (especially on a site called 'speed hunters') but I do sense a growing dislike of the limited run, never seen, inflated after-market story (and rightly so). Porsche (certainly the staff I spoke to) might share that same sense of dislike and stated that they can only leave allocations to their dealers. In an attempt to quash any notion that I might re-sell the car I offered that the dealer should keep my car (despite my paying for it now) for a year with a legal agreement in place and storage paid. I haven't heard back in 3 weeks! Oh well, Best Buy the turbo s instead...
It's overwrought, garish, has a lot of contrived add-ons, is produced not for drivers but for people who want to feel like they're a part of a special club of insiders, and its producers only get away with this because of rabid fanboyism. I'm sorry, did you think I was talking about the 911 GT2RS? No, I'm referring to Paddy's writing style.