If you looked closely enough, among all the interesting and not so interesting customized cars that Toyota Racing Development (TRD) had on display at this year’s Tokyo Auto Salon, there was a little turbocharged engine in the corner of a display.
The majority of casual passers-by probably didn’t even notice it, most are of course there to take 15TB of pictures of all the campaign girls. Cars come a distant second, so engines may as well be invisible. But this lump of shiny aluminum stopped me in my tracks.
Information about it was very scarce, all the sign was telling us is that it’s a prototype race engine called the TRD-BIZ001, has a capacity of 2,000cc, is able to deliver over 600hp, and it’s expected to be released in 2019.
Of course, the big horsepower is possible thanks to the rather generously sized Garrett turbo mounted low next to it. There is much we could take wild guesses on, but it seems like TRD has come up with a race engine package it can offer for a variety of applications. It reminds me of TRD’s 3S-GTE which was used in variety of cars and perhaps most famously in the GT500 Supras.
While I was taking all the engine’s details in, I started thinking about all the rumours surrounding the new Supra being built in partnership with BMW and most likely being powered by a variant of the B58 straight-six. I’ve got nothing against that engine, but does it really belong under the hood of a possible new-gen Supra? Of course not. Surely TRD can come up with a commercially viable version of this BIZ001; de-tune it to around 400-450hp and show the world what the Japanese can build.
The engine obviously employs variable valve timing and possibly lift, as well as direct injection along with other technologies to make its power and torque curve as broad, punchy and useable as possible. Plus with the latest engine management solutions, you can fine tune an engine’s output and character to suit.
Going down to 2.0 liters should satisfy the environmentalists and really make forced induction technology speak for itself. But then again, would it all be feasible? The costs alone would surely be astronomical, not to mention the hurdles in making it perform, let alone meeting global emission standards.
Still, it’s fun to dream, and as someone that has always been passionate about Japanese cars I’d love to see Toyota make full use of its motorsport arm to create something very special for the enthusiasts.
Dino Dalle Carbonare
Instagram: speedhunters_dino
dino@speedhunters.com
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I think 400-450 could be still a high level of tune for an engine that should last well into 150,000 miles and more reliably. Let's be honest this 600hp kind of engine is no doubtly an engine that will be used 3 times and requiring stripping down and inspecting for wear. Something around the 300-350 mark you would expect to be achieveable out of Japan again though atleast. Like the FK2 Type R with 310. It does seem a bit odd though how you rewind 15 years and Japan was firing out engines with over 300hp from 2.0 capacities like they was going out of fashion (which I guess they kinda did, emissions an all that).
great
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4 cylinder doesn't belong under hood of a Supra either. I'll take a BMW six over a 4 cylinder any day. I'd prefer a new Toyota six though
Brad Johnson I think 400-450 is definitely realistic, just look at the Evo X with its 2L I4, they had the FQ-400 with 400 and they also created a limited edition FQ-440 with 440 bhp.
The FQ-400 is coming on 8 years old now and I'm sure the technology has evolved enough to make these sorts of power levels even easier to achieve.
But I guess with no regulations or competition vehicles to push development of a 2L they will likely go with a less highly strung engine with a larger displacement.
I vote to stop resurrecting vehicle names for cars in general. For instance, how is the new Honda an NSX at all? Give us something new and cool to lust over that doesn't lean on the crutch of a name.
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Would it be too hard to imagine that this lump is an evolution of the RI4AG 2.0L turbo that powered the Lexus RC F GT500 car? Or perhaps this is the new engine for the newly announced LC500 GT500 car.
johnbezt NSX stands for "New Sportscar eXperimental." Honda went all-out with new tech in this new model, and when the old NSX first came out, it brought Honda's best to the table as well. Even though the original is my dream car, I think the new NSX is worthy of the name. Doesn't matter that it's not analog; I seriously doubt the old one would have been if the technology of the new car was around and capable of mass production for 1990.
It's... It's beautiful! :O
jakejakejake1 Granted yeah the Evo's did have high power outputs but look at the maintanance schedules, this day in age 4-6,000 miles for oil and filter is laughable when you compared to the herman germans making their engines 'safe' for 24,000 miles before needing an oil change in the likes of the S3/Golf R.
Brad Johnson jakejakejake1
Brad, that's not correct. UK Mitsubishi tuners recommend the engine oil
& filter is changed on the Evo 10 at 10,000 miles and transmission
oils at 20,000 miles. The earlier Evos had short service schedules. Evo
10s standard or tuned at 440bhp are perfectly reliable if kept regularly
serviced and allowed to warm up and cool down properly. I own a tuned 2010 Ralliart SST (same engine, smaller turbo).
UK
VAG tuners recommend the manufacturer long life oil and service
schedule are ignored; performance oils and 15,000 miles/annual services
instead. Using long life oil and services on petrol especially
turbocharged engines is not only unhealthy, it can lead to complete
engine failure! I lost £9000 on my 2005 Audi A4 B7 2.0 TFSI Quattro when
the oil pump failed and the engine was trashed...Jake I completely agree with you.
cjpinkston78 Yeah so would I as it is my favorite engine layout, but everyone wants to downsize it seems
BRB on the phone to TRD about engine sponsorship for the KP61 project.
Mook Genius I would like to infer the same from the info card by my Japanese is quite lacking... maybe someone that can read kanji can fill us in what Toyota says this engine is from /for.
These are the Super GT regulations for the GT500 category.
NISSAN makes the NR20A for the GT-R in this class with 550ps from this 2.0l 4-cyinder turbo.
Brad Johnson jakejakejake1 maybe it's my own prejudice but I can't imagine a S3 or Golf R being driven to 200,000 miles, much less making it there on less than 10 oil changes in it's lifetime - not that Evos are the pinnacle of reliability but still.
I'm also surprised at these higher interval oil changes with all of these turbo charged cars sharing their oil with the hot turbo, seems like a surefire way to have people drive thousands of miles on oil that's already broken down just because they have another 10k until the oil change according to the computer...
cjpinkston78 You forget about the weight saving and weight distribution when using an engine in this configuration.
The Supra won JGTC in 1997 with a TRD 503E engine (developed 3SGTE).
This car was truely an iconic car and believe me the engine sounded ridiculous...
Here's some more insight into the TOM'S Supra:
http://www.downshiftaus.com/2015/ds-does-japan-toms-supra/
I'm not a big fan of that idea, 600hp capable out of a 2liter means it is running high compression, high boost, forged lots of everything and that translates to a sense of delicateness. People forget that race engines only really have to survive one race. F1 cars had qualifying engines that only had to survive a couple laps.
The ridiculous smoothness and balance inherent in an inline 6 should also not be overlooked. An inline 4 by comparison is shaky.
I think given that toyota has forgone the inline 6, and BMW have kept with it and shown how insanely reliable and capable they can be behind the E92 335i's and such an inline 6 driveline from BMW matched with a robust gearbox which the germans have always been known for would be an excellent recipe.
Also keep in mind if it fits an inline 6 that means it will fit an inline 4 with ease, but an engine bay designed for an inline 4 will not happily fit an inline 6.
Nice find!
Alas, I would expect it's only for us dreamers :'(
For the expected price point of the new Supra, I think marketing would furiously go ape if they had to sell it with 4cyl. General public would shame it unfortunately.
i23sonny new mustang comes with a 4 banger, I'm sure if the engine has it's own perks people won't mind.
MiKe__Pap
Exactly. This is a race engine.
Look at the architecture, completely unsuitable for production car. Block is designed as a stressed member in a rear transaxle FR car.
It's pretty to look at though
JakWhite I was later thinking of the Mustang too, option engines might not be too bad.. but seems rare for sports cars to have options these days. Also a report I read stated that for down here in Aus, 84% of the sales were V8.
My guess is the Supra is likely to be around GTR pricing, and I don't think many will choose 4cyl in that price bracket...
seattlejester F1 engines now go 4 races without coming apart either intentionally or unintentionally. No big time pro series (and most lower tier) have engines that need to go only 1 race. The tech needed to make an honest, easy 400-500hp out of a turbo 4 has been around for decades. BMW does indeed make good engines though some of them have proven to be needlessly "delicate" in normal use, The same cannot be said for Toyota engines. M5 V10, 2JZ, 3SGTE, respectively, to name just a few. German cars get way more free secret warrant engines and transmissions than any Japanese brand.
Tell us how heavy duty components (forged cranks, rods, etc) make an engine delicate again? We're dying to know.
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A 4 cylinder is all well and good, with 400-500HP.
But the thing that made the supras legendary was slapping a massive turbo on it and boosting the bejesus out of it giving you 1000BHP+
The 4 cyl won't give you much room to go further especially in the state of tune it will already come in.
Give us a 1LR-GUE,V10 out of the LFA, maybe some boost - put it at the same level as the GTR - for the same money.
Nice spotting Mr Dalle Carbonare! A beautiful engine indeed. I like your dreams, but not sure Toyota are thinking along those lines very much these days, sadly.
You can tell this engine is designed to move a seriously prodigious amount of air, looking at those massive exhaust header pipes. Interesting design on the intake as well, much smaller than current global trends. I would love to see a feature on this engine, if you can manage to find the engineers who designed this gem. That intake has an interesting story to tell...
And it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility for TRD to add another two cylinders to this package and make something seriously interesting. or maybe add another bank of 4 cylinders at a 90 degree..
Hey I can dream too!!
Thanks again, Dino!
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Oh gods, I hope so. Plumbing in a German mill just doesn't sit well with me in the new Supra. What made the Supra great - the JZA80, anyways - was the in-house powerplant that was so ominously Supra. Go ahead and imagine yourself saying "B58, no shit" like you expect it to give you the same chills. I've always maintained that the Supra can take it's time hitting the streets as long as Toyota is perfecting the right heart for the right monster.
And it's milled from a billed block from the looks of it. Also, correcte if I'm wrong, but it is not using any variable valve train system, which would make no sense in the narrow rev range it is used in a race.
IRONWOLF RD In house, designed by Yamaha like most of their great engines from that era.
Damn this engine looks light! Any idea how heavy might it be?
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No I didn't forget weight savings it just isn't worth it to me in a street car. Not worth giving up the awesome sound a turbo inline 6 makes, how smooth they are and the torque and power that can easily be had from 3.0L+ and turbo. I know smaller engines can make the power and be lighter but I just don't care for 4 cylinders and their sound.. Especially not in a car known for its engine that has been a straight six every generation since the first. I've owned a second gen, third gen and several turbo third gen supras. My last making around 500hp. Driven and spent a lot of time around the 4th gen in the early 2000s in Atlanta with friends that had them. Supra meets every couple months and such. Fun times.
speedhunters_dino it's not really a free choice from manufacturers is it? They have to pass emissions and in EU countries it's usually less tax on the car = more sells. I haven't ever heard a engineer really be happy with it.
damn and I just put a 2L in my jza80, I wonder if trd will sell me one to replace it
I personally wouldn't mind the BMW B58. From the technical specifications it seems to be a interesting engine.
Truth be told I don't expect the new Supra to be a succes. If it would come with a 4 cilinder the chances would only decrease. But hey I'm stuck in the 90's.
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I think I saw somewhere on the web that Monster Sport has a display of several engine porn. Was it here? In depth coverage please....
Trying to compare new and old Supra is a fruitless exercise - 2 cars designed in 2 very different time periods economically with different budgets and different expectations, both in sales and real world figures (horsepower, fuel economy, life expectancy etc). Just because they share the name so the new model has some instant marketing 'heritage' doesn't really mean anything in terms of engineering.
Make it near to 4.0l because 2.0l is for Slowrollas. Please don't make the new Supra as pathetic as nowadays F1...
That's definitely an amazing work of art built specifically for a race team. I'd love to hear more about the technology in it but honestly those power levels from a 2 liter have been more than published(see Turbo Hondas). More importantly, the Evo MR and latest Mercedes Benz CLA45 AMG made it extremely clear more that 200hp per liter out of a 2.0 turbo 4 cylinder and longevity is not an option. I just love it when small businesses try to churn tuner dollars claiming to facilitate more reliability than a team of engineers that torture test products for a living.I learned a long time ago 200hp per liter is the absolute most to pull from any build, work smarter not harder. The new Supra won't come with anything less than 6 cylinders and a turbo. I'm more interested in the cooling system on those GT500 series beasts! I'm sure we could learn a thing or two
A 4-cylinder? GTFO.
Here
here here :).
While we are on the subject of 2.0 turbo Toyota engines, does
anyone know much about the high efficacy Lexus 2.0 turbo engine 8AR-FTS, for
future engine installs etc?.
Here here here :).
While we are on the subject of 2.0 turbo Toyota engines, does anyone know much about the high efficacy Lexus 2.0 turbo engine 8AR-FTS, for future engine installs etc?.
...http://australiancar.reviews/8AR-FTS-engine.php
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dom_cl 200hp/liter as a max? 200+ is commonplace these days in STOCK liter bikes.
There's no throttle body that I can see, wonder if that means it has variable lift and doesn't need a throttle. Like Nissan's VVEL. That'd be pretty sweet.
NicholasMaher seattlejester Not saying that they do, but most serious teams have replacement engines waiting. Ideally they won't have to replace it at all, but they are prepared for it, and engines do indeed get replaced during a season. That means at least once in a year. How many road engines do you see needing replacement after a year? Race engines lives are usually measured in hours at least that is the unit recorded in race logs, maybe over the life of an engine it will have a couple hundred, by crude comparison given a road engine goes usually 100,000 before needing a major service at an average of 30 miles an hour that would be over 3000 hours.
I agree there are lots of people making more the 200hp/liter on small 4 cylinders, but given a simple standard of say something like warranty length alone we know that engines that hit those numbers are not warrantied for very long (british market Evo comes to mind, I think some smaller AMG's come to mind as well). Imagine the reliability when we push the envelope to 250 or 300hp/L.
Regarding my forged statement, keep in mind it was in addition to high compression and high boost. When a setup requires the use of forged parts, MLS, etc they are running very high strung and at the limit. On a 2jz, I don't think forged parts have to come into play till after 500hp, so once again in the 200+hp/L territory. While the components can generally take more abuse, if your engine requires forged pistons and rods, MLS head gaskets, it is already running at full tilt. It isn't going to be as forgiving when it lets go. Ever play with tungsten carbide? One of the hardest materials, highly scratch resistant even when exposed to rough surfaces etc, which is why it makes such great drilling/milling bits, but under the right circumstance it will shatter.
I was hoping the new twin turbo v6 in the Lexus LS was going to find its way into the new Supra.
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The engine idea sounds amazing, but I doubt it's gonna make its way into production cars, it's simply too extreme.
600 horsepower or up for a two liter? That's like rally car level, even Ken Block's gymkhana rally car has only 650.
BTW, what I really want in the supra is a rotary engine, at least something like 20b please!
ACBS
Totally sold on that idea as well
But how about a NA v6 that revs high?
DJJAW11
Just read the page, that engine is definitely a contender
But since the Supra name is already connected with an inline six, that engine might upset people.
Thanks for the info!
rally2727
Agree
ford capri
Actually, if Toyota is going extreme with this engine, why don't they just put three or four turbos on some other engine?
And can someone post some websites that provide great info about engines and car models designs please? I've been looking for a long time
THX!
seattlejester
Good point, but at the same time don't forget the jza80 has an engine that's being modified to the moon by people in the 90s and today, which proved that even extreme engines can survive for a long time.
No matter what engine goes in the new Supra it has already lost its spirit. It is kinda why I do not really like the 86/BRZ that much. Toyota has become sort of "lazy" in a sense. What happened to building your own cars in house? If Toyota will have any success with the Supra in the future then it better start doing its own work, develop its own engines similar to the one in this article, and give Nissan and Honda the true rival they deserve. Otherwise, it will not be as successful as the GT-R. Supra fans deserve that especially after a long hiatus that keeps on getting longer.
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victorthecarguy ACBS Nope Nissan tried to go N/A after turbo and see how no one really wants a 350Z. Same with Mazda with the RX-8,and Mitsubishi with the Eclipse.
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Putting a 4 cylinder with a big turbo is no less wrong than putting a BMW straight 6 turbo in a Supra. Tuners are just going to yank whatever is in there out anyways and throw in a 2jz or a played out LS swap anyways, so who cares.
insane
Im running a 3S-GTE car myself ( Rev 3 Turbo MR2 ) and its currently running 320bhp fly on stock internals,
amazing engine and shows what can be done even 21 years ago !