Speed Challenger: The Bensopra 380sx

It was about three months ago, on my last trip down to the Kansai area of Japan, that I realized I was standing in front of THE car of 2013. As Ueta-san of BenSopra ran the plans he had for his 180SX-based project by me, it quickly became obvious that there wasn’t going to be one single car at the 2013 Tokyo Auto Salon that would come close to matching the sheer awesomeness of this machine. Needless to say, I was right. BenSopra did it last year with their GT-R, this year it’s the turn of the Nardó Special 380SX.

After what must have been a very long drive up from Kyoto, Ueta-san and his mechanic arrived at the Trust HQ just outside Narita last Thursday, the day before the start of the Tokyo Auto Salon. They had just finished the car the night before and rather than heading straight to the Makuhari Messe they were kind enough to meet me at the Trust so that Sean and I could shoot this impressive creation.

Once the car was unloaded from the transporter there were still some small touches that needed to be made, including applying a few stickers on the car like this custom made 380SX one. The car would then be stickered up at TAS that night by Art Factory, the guys that do about 90% of all the graphics for Japanese tuner and drift cars.

Miura-san has also driven all the way up from Kyoto, skipping a night of sleep in the process. Riding 6 hours in his very firm FR-S had given him serious back pain, but there was no time for rest, the one off BenSopra aero he had created still needed some work. The front bumper needed to be bolted to the splitter and the carbon fiber rear diffuser assembled and fitted to the car.

It all took some time but Sean and I were patient because we knew we would soon have full access to the car that will go down in history as the most extreme Japanese tuner projects ever created.

Of course what makes this car very special is that it combines a very fresh aero treatment…

…with one of the wildest engine swaps ever attempted on a Nissan RPS13.

The whole engine and drivetrain was literally ripped out of the ex-Blitz R35 GT-R that BenSopra based their 2012 project car on and then custom fitted into the much smaller 180SX engine bay. As Ueta tells us it was all a big, three-month long headache, but thankfully they had the masterminds at Trust to lend a helping hand. After creating the custom engine and transmission mounts to hold up and position both the VR38 and the Hollinger sequential transmission in place…

…it was over to Trust for a lot of custom work. The engine was firstly refreshed and fitted with a Trust 4.0L stroker kit and then dropped back in place in its new home.

With two big TD06-25G blowers and a planned V-mount intercooler/radiator set up there was a lot of work that needed to be done…

…and it all started off with a pair of custom fabricated stainless steel exhaust manifolds to position the turbines…

…in a top mounted layout, right next to the two banks of the engine. The external Trust wastegates are right under each TD06, within easy reach if the spring needs to be changed. More custom piping followed, this time aluminum that would plumb the whole intake system to the…

…horizontally positioned twin-entry intercooler. To allow this to fit the front section of the chassis and radiator mounts had to be cut away, a custom subframe fabricated up and bolted in place at the same time as the chassis was prepped prior to the build.

This is Toru Kawashima from Trust, the man responsible for all the custom work and fabrication, seen here holding up a “Nardo Special Edition TK-001″ plaque he made up for the 380SX!

Once the intake charge has been compressed and cooled it’s throttled through these billet 90 mm mechanical throttles, supplied by Osaka GT-R specialist Full Stage,

…and directed into the engine by the Trust larger capacity intake manifold. If by now your are wondering what the point of all of this is, well there is a reason this 180SX chassis needs the 1100 or so horsepower it is currently running. In a few months this car will be driven by Ueta around the famous Nardó high speed ring in the south of Italy where it will be attempting to get as close as possible to the 400 km/h mark (248.5 mph). The event is being organized by Option Magazine who has also invited tuners like Phoenix’s Power and Top Secret to join with their fastest R35 GT-Rs.

As you can imagine when the throttle is pinned to the floor this tuned VR38 has a pretty massive thirst for high octane fuel, which is contained in the 40 L ATL fuel cell…

…fished out and appropriately pressurized by a pair of Bosh Motorsport 044 fuel pumps.

It is then sent via braided lines to the Trust/GReddy fuel rails and onto the 1000 cc/min injectors which will be pretty much maxed out through all of the high speed attempt.

This fuel pressure regulator keeps everything in check. A pair of Trust 13-row oil coolers keep the big V6 within operating temperature…

…while this custom made Full Stage oil separator tank catches all those nasty blow-by fumes.

During the shoot the car was set to a more show-car stance ride height, easily achieved through the custom air-suspension that Full Stage built for the project.

These, much the Roberuta air-cups that a lot of people use in Japan, feature a regular adjustable coilover damper layout with a top-mounted air bag to allow the car to be lifted and dropped by a couple of inches.

Ueta says this suspension will allow the car to be far more stable at high speeds to help with stability around Nardó.

This is of the nicest angles to appreciate the BenSopra overfenders that Miura devised for BenSopra, having a similar rear recess that exposes the tires as done on the FR-S aero.

The wheels of choice for this project are satin black Enkei RS05RRs, measuring a massive 11J across at each corner, 18-inches in diameter. They run Advan A050s semi-slick rubber, 295/30R18 all round, which will hopefully hold up to the abuse of multiple high-speed attempts.

Ueta is confident the car will be able to reach some pretty impressive numbers in Italy, thanks to its custom gearing, potentially being the fastest car there.

A little peek through the driver’s side window reveals a very race-oriented interior. Aside from the custom carbon dashboard that BenSopra created, the 380SX has no trim to speak of…

…as it was all removed and thrown in the trash when the chassis was sent to Saito Roll Cage prior to the build actually starting. There it received a multi-point cage created to not only boost torsional rigidity, but also offer high levels of safety if the worst was to happen.

Ueta purposely didn’t fit the rear gate and side windows so that people at the Tokyo Auto Salon would be able to have a good look inside and appreciate all the work that has been done to the shell.

Ueta will sit in the Bride Zeta III bucket when piloting the car…

…and will be able to keep an eye on a ton of parameters and read out through the AIM digital display. There are two wideband lambda readouts, one for each bank of cylinders, the easiest way to notice if any potential problems with the engine arise.

The custom carbon-look center console is where all switchgear has been laid out on…

…including Trust’s new Profec boost controller which looks like something out of the future!

Engine management is handled by this Vi-Pec V88 stand alone ECU which has so far been set up with a base map. Ueta would have loved to have all fuelling and ignition maps sorted out for when the twin TD06s will run full boost but there isn’t a roller or hub dynamometer out there that can read the actual torque numbers the tuned VR churns out. They have seen 120 kgm (867 lb/ft) on one dyno but then error messages followed as the system maxed out. They are left with no choice but to finalize and fine tune the mapping on the street.

It was truly fascinating listening to Ueta talk about the car and what he hopes to achieve with it. In the short year and a half BenSopra has been active he sure has made a big impact on the Japanese tuning world!

I couldn’t stop looking at the 380SX, sitting there with its massively wide stance, almost awkwardly styled hood that just barely clears the massive twin-turbo V6 that sits under it…

…and of course that raw rear end.

The rear spoiler with the big centrally mounted stays has become a defining factor of both BenSopra and TRA Kyoto and along with the carbon multi-piece diffuser will help keep the rear end firmly pressed onto Nardó’s black top as those rear A050 attempt to unleash the 1100 plus HP. The BNR34 rear end is equipped with an ATS carbon LSD that should help get the best out of the sticky tires.

Along with all the work under the hood Trust also fabricated a one-off, full-straight exhaust system which exits centrally through the diffuser. I though the BenSopra R35 was loud until Ueta started driving the 380SX around the Trust HQ!

The rear bumper wasn’t completed in time for TAS, leaving the chassis exposed. I actually quite like the way the car is at the moment, it somehow looks more functional without a bumper!

To give a little contrast to the flat white body the roof was wrapped in carbon-look vinyl. The large Speedhunters sticker is there to help with performance of course.

The next days will be crucial for Ueta and his mechanic, they need to finalize the set up and engine mapping before the car is loaded onto the container and shipped off to Italy.

If for some reason they won’t make he will have to wait for the next Option event that will be held there.

Knowing Ueta, if the car won’t make it to Nardó I’m sure he will hit a few tracks here in Japan and drift the hell out of it! After what he has told me time and time again, the cars he has so far built have been done for pure fun, so why not enjoy them!

Specs:

Engine: Trust 4L stroker kit, Trust exhaust manifolds, Trust TD06-25G x2, Trust external wastegaes x2, Trust custom straight through exhaust system, Trust custom piping, Trust custom V-mounted twin entry intercooler, Full stage mechanical throttles, Trust intake manifold, ATL 40L fuel cell, Bosh 044 fuel pumps x2, custom surge tanks, braided fuel lines, adjustable FRP, Trust fuel rails, Trust 1000 cc/min injectors, Trust 13-row oil cooler x2, Fulll Stage catch tank, Trust radiator, Vi-PEC V88 ECU

Transmission: Hollinger 6-speed sequential, ORC triple plate clutch, BNR34 rear end, ATS carbon LSD

Suspension: Full Stage air-cupped adjustable coilovers

Wheels & Tires: Enkei RS05RR 11Jx18, Yokohama Advan A050 295/30R18

Exterior: BenSopra X TRA Kyoto full aero, BenSopra one-off hood

Interior: Saito Roll Cage custom multi-point roll cage, spot & seam welded, Bride Zeta III bucker seats x2, BenSopra carbon dashboard, AIM digital dash unit, custom center console, custom switchgear, GReddy Profec B boost controller, custom gear shifter, hydraulic e-brake

Ben Sopra

Trust

Enkei

TRA Kyoto

-Dino Dalle Carbonare

Pictures: Dino & Sean

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262 comments

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1

They're gonna run at Nardo with numbers like that with a cage like that? Asking for trouble...
 
That aside, beautiful build, one's that will be remember for a long long time!

2

Such an awesome car and build!!
 
Just don't understand why they used the ugly stock radiator surge tank, looks very out of place.

3

There have better full coverage of the Nardo event.

4

never thought a plain white half finished looking 180 could be so bad ass, let's hope more VR swaps start popping up not sure what the second hand VR market is looking like though lol.

5

Just needs a back/rear bumper then this things is perfect!

6
speedhunters_dino

@twincamRob

7
speedhunters_dino

@twincamRob I think they are changing it and relocating it. It was all finished quickly

8
speedhunters_dino

@TylerS13 lol I know exactly what you mean!

9

Am I the only one who thinks this car doesn't look like it has the necessary aerodynamics to hit that speed? And I don't build race cars or anything, but if you're going for high speed in a straight line (or mostly, as the Nardo is a giant circle), why so much camber in the front? Engine-wise, it looks ready to rock though!

10

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I hope they don't make it to Nardo.

11

I wonder if the car has enough power to overcome it's ill suited aero and suspension setup. I also hope this doesn't end in tragedy with that puny roll cage. This thing really looks more like a drift car or a grass roots race car than a real high speed competitor.

12

I agree. Unless this aero is just temporary, but I doubt that. If they're serious about going 400 kph, they need to be doing some major wind tunnel testing. To me, it seems like they're building this car more for the aesthetic appeal rather than for a serious speed record. Oh, and there's no way I'd want to be the guy driving this car on the attempt...not with that pathetic Japanese-spec rollcage and microscopic brakes.

13

Why the severe lack of brakes?
Almost makes it more badass. Apart from when they try stopping from 400 kmh with those things.

14

this is just amazing. it's like the car you build in your head with a million dollars and all the talent in the world. I love the lack of rear bumper. just awesome.

15

this car is out of control, and I couldn't help but notice the classic engrish on the turbos: Performanced by Trust

16

I like all the fabrication work, definitely some time and effort was put into this show car. I agree that it should hit some pretty impressive speeds on those straights due to the motor alone. But pretty ridiculous that you consider it the best of show and claiming it to be the best in 2013. Far more cars have spent more time, money, creativity, and have fully dedicated themselves to a purpose. This car looks a bit confused as to what it's trying to accomplish. I hope you misspoke when you called this car finished.....

17

Once he's done Nardo, I'd like it shipped directly to Sydney for WTAC duties.

18

"the car that will go down in history as the most extreme Japanese tuner projects ever created."
 
That is a bold and, dare I say, foolish thing to claim. It's definitely a unique project, but I think the hype juice is a little high in this article. Personally, it's not my cup of cup, and I expect there to be something more interesting to pop up in 2013 and surely in the future since the year is just starting after all.

19

I think so too. There will be tons of drag from that front end, the rear wing and the exposed portions of the tires. It definitely serves the purpose of getting attention though.

20

Even with the crazy cage I wonder if that 20 year old chassis could handle the power the motor makes. Super crazy build though no doubt!

21

A very good publicity stunt imo
 
IF and i mean IF they hit that speed they will be re-writing the book on how to do it. Everything theyve done, apart from the engine, flys in the face of how to build a car for v-max. looks more like a TA car.
 
And i heard theyve already postponed the nardo trip....wonder if they will ever go.

22

Honestly, i really like it. Its never been done so yes its unique. Pretty much everything is spot on perfect except the fender flares. The front fender doesnt match 2 specific lines so its off. But thats my only complain. Oh yea its a Fuel Safe cell. I have one :)

23

Honestly, i really like it. Its never been done so yes its unique. Pretty much everything is spot on perfect except the fender flares. The front fender doesnt match 2 specific lines so its off. But thats my only complain. Oh yea its a Fuel Safe cell. I have one :)

24

Cool car, timeless S Chasis.
 
PS - Miura-San drives a Scion FR-S????

25

does anyone have any insight on the Full Stage air-cupped adjustable coilovers. to me it seems like a major compromise, but i admittedly dont know anything about the product but my assumptions. is it solid in handling conditions?  i am generally not a fan of anything airbag on a full blown performance vehicle, but i am open to hearing the ins and outs of this product.

26

does anyone have any insight on the Full Stage air-cupped adjustable coilovers. to me it seems like a major compromise, but i admittedly dont know anything about the product but my assumptions. is it solid in handling conditions?  i am generally not a fan of anything airbag on a full blown performance vehicle, but i am open to hearing the ins and outs of this product.

27

@greenroadster yes, he does. Haven't you seen his red Rocket Bunny Fittet FR-S? I guess having a car for the US market in Japan ist like having a JDM car in Europe or in the US, way cooler than all cars available in the country (Sorry for my bad English :) )

28

That front cooling solution ain´t gonna work on high speeds, there will be a high pressure are right on top of those coolers, so the air isn´t going to be sucked out as efficiently as that design is supposed to do. Also the fender flares need to be sealed off properly to the bodyshell. Those cuts on fender flares behind the wheel will aid the downforce.

29

400 kmh inthat thing? I dont think so.
I guess its just for show. No brakes. No aero. Damon camber? Really? I hope if it tries, he will not die....

30

When is the Option mag Nardo top speed challenge going to be?

31

i hope that there'll be a coverage of this thing hitting ~400kmph. and if it does hit that speed, i hope they'll equip it with a parachute because with those brakes it will stop at the end of the next day

32

instant bookmark, thanks Dino and Sean!
 
PS: Probably should start making short videos on how the cars sound when rev'd and include em into your posts <3

33

LOL, "the car that will go down in history as the most extreme Japanese tuner projects ever created." That is YOUR opinion (once again)...articles filled with opinions and opinions and opinions....it gets boring Dino, it really does!
Yes, the car is cool, very cool, but there were MANY other cars at TAS that were as cool, if not cooler.
 
And like everyone already said, 1200hp is not enough to propel this car to 400km/h. All those holes on the front bumper and front area of the car are just not aerodynamic enough.
With that said, the hype is all about being the very first non-GT-R that sport a VR38DETT, that's it.

34

I´d like to see those tires hit 400km/h =D haha

35

@greenroadster demon camber? What? Where do you see "oni camber" on this car..

36

@JDMized 
I'll be surprised if all those "aero" parts even stay on the car north of 300kph. I suspect the splitter will turn into a snow plow at some point.
 
And almost all drivetrain parts have to be up to the task. Wheel bearings, the differential, those tires. The latter may just disintegrate at some point.
Its not nice, I'm literally sitting 10 meters away from a machine that can simulate tire-road contact up to speeds of 350kph. A soft compound semi-slick is actually more likely to blow up at those speeds than a normal premium road tire, don't forget Bugatti (Veyron) and Maybach (Exelero) teamed up with tire manufactures to get rubber capable enough.
 
That is, if this car ever gets up to those speeds. As other pointed out cooling is less than perfect.

37
MariusEngenSkinnes

To all you non-belivers out there.. This car is a work in progress? Im sure the brakes, driveterrain and tires will be upgraded. This has to be the most extreme S13 build ever.

38

So sick! Love the 3rd from last pic

39

I have just a modest skill level in aero and I see enough drag there to need more than 1100 hp for 400... Wide wheels, exposed at the rear instead of controlling airflow after that round thingy? No vortex generator strips at the end of the roof to make sure air stays attached to the rear window? A million holes in the front and anything that makes the general shape wider - more frontal area - than stock...? I'd say 370km/h, tops. Unless they have 400 additional hp of nitrous planned..

40

amazing car but the fact that he wants to try for 400 on a tire that only has a speed rating for 270 if im not mistaken is insane. i highly doubt that tire will last long at nardo which is supposed to be bumpy at that speed a speed far greater than what is considered its safe top speed. the car is incredible but all i can think of is whats the point?

41

truly amazing project.. congrat team,, and thx dino

42

Long live the great white hype! All kidding aside, whether the car ever makes its way to Nardo and anywhere near its lofty goals or not, Ueto-San has managed to do something I thought was impossible with an S13 - something totally new. It was a very cool experience just being around such a machine and I can't wait to see what happens next.

43

I love this car. Great build!
That said - I agree with what has been said prior. Aerodynamically the car has too many things on it that will cause more drag than down force. Please study work done by land speed racers. They have gone that speed in cars more slippery with less power. Better tires tucked into the body would have been more aero-efficient as would a flatter rear spoiler instead of a wing. Like an NHRA ProStock car.
Don't worry about the brakes. There is so much aero drag that once the throttle is lifted - it won't even go two miles until it's slow enough to use the brakes it has.
But Man, I love this car!

44

Geez, everyone is an Aero specialist these days huh ?

45
speedhunters_dino

Brakes are next, it wasn't completed in time

46
speedhunters_dino

Camber was for looks, its initial purpose was to be a successful show car

47
speedhunters_dino

@KipMontgomery lol it adds to the appeal

48
speedhunters_dino

@BenjaminSaucier It is purely my opinion, please feel free to disagree ;)

49
speedhunters_dino

@Chris Nuggets It's a car you will remember for a long time that's for sure.  Much like many others that have come before it and no doubt others that will follow

50
speedhunters_dino

It's the first I hear of them myself so no idea if the claims have any truth to them

51
speedhunters_dino

Sounds like Andrew Brilliant is needed here!

52
speedhunters_dino

Thankfully Nardó is round so they can potentially roll to a stop lol

53
speedhunters_dino

Thankfully Nardó is round so they can potentially roll to a stop lol

54

Since Dino talks so highly about this 180SX, maybe Speedhunters should put him behind the wheel and be THE driver at Nardo :) 
Dino seems pretty confident this "extreme" machine can get damn near the record, LOL.
Those X bar tabs welded on the cage are a joke.
I'm not taking anything away from Ueta san, Greddy, Miura and whoever is involved in this project, the car is cool but it was not designed to break any record, sorry.

55
LeonardoMalfatti

- Wow I like how this S13 is put together, love the looks and love the specs. However, How are they going to stop that monster 380SX with those front brakes? Well, I'm pretty sure they're not done yet with this car. -

56

@speedhunters_dino  @BenjaminSaucier 5 cents. If they make this baby fly at the desired speed it will obviously change lots of opinions where one might say "old can isn't suited for it". :)
In the opposite, it would be pretty interesting to see where this 180 will suffer from a weak point. Anyway - new experience which is fun. :)

57

nice setup. but there are dynos that can measure the torque this engine puts out. and yes its a Greddy car and so it must have Greddy parts on it. but maxing out injector isn't safe. putting in some ID2000's would of been super safe or even ID1200's and you'd have some wiggle room.
 
other than that. beast car!

58

Nice nice nice, only point on the car is the wrap on the roof... Why so ugly, stretched out way to mutch. The cheapest peace on the car and so visible.,,

59

JDMized:Maybe the car isn't ready for the day of the "record" attempt yet?  Or are they purposely going to run it without a rear window... Why don't you drop your attitude and wait and see what happens? With regards to breaks.. I am sure they will sort that as well, if Trust is involved they have a lot of things to put there that will make it stop, can not see why that would be an issue at all.. Same goes with tires.. But hey, it's fun to complain right?

60

@BartLunenburg *piece.

61
speedhunters_dino

@JDMized We'll have it shipped to Buttonwillow so you can shake it down for Ueta lol

62

Everyone's a critic.
 
Regardless of the hype and all the negativity from JDMized (SURPRISE!!!), I enjoy the spirit of Japanese tuners. Whenever something like this is created instantly everyone becomes a professional engineer and Andrew Brilliant's third cousin's sister's uncle, twice removed. It seems like what's largely forgotten about the brains behind this project is that they, and many other tuners, are in it for the journey.
 
Cold calculations, wind-tunnel testing, estimations, just take away from the FUN factor of discovery, of trial and error. That's what I like about a project with lofty aspirations like this. They see an opportunity, an obstacle and they rise to the challenge with a nonchalant "f*ck it, let's do this" shrug of the shoulders and off they go.
 
And as it's been said before, it's not even finished yet, so knock it off with the armchair engineer judgements. If they attempt and fail in a blaze of glory, it's still cooler than anything you're doing right now.

63

@FunctionFirst You clearly haven't really race much at any given track, have you? Ever heard of safety? While I said the car looks good, the cage has a lot of weaknesses, for lack of word. Going at 400 km/h is not a "fvck it, let's do it" deal!
Not to mention the ton of money for transportation, parts, insurance (shipping), logistic.....But you're right, what do I know!

64

this. is. amazing. No criticism at all on anything. and to anyone who is, shut the hell up. Some of the best tuners in japan came together to make arguably the most badass s13 ever built and i would not question the anything that they're brain pool came up with. This thing is incredible and i was waiting on the day someone put the vr38 in a more worthy chassis. godspeed to Ueta.

65

@zamm333 It's okay to criticize, though. Better to tell them an area where it might need improvement than to just blow sunshine up their asses. It's a wicked cool car, but it's not suited for a top speed run. It needs a lot of improvement in the areas of aerodynamics and safety. Take a look at the Veyron, for example. It struggled to break 400 kph and it was designed in a wind tunnel by some of the smartest people in the car industry today. The 380 is a cool car, but these guys honestly have no idea what they're doing.

66

Haterz gonna hate, Potatoes gonna Potate...
I like this 'give it a metric sh1tload of power' approach to setting speed records.  Does it really matter if it hits the magic 400kph or not?  It's clearly not been in a wind tunnel, nor had any FEA conducted on it but I'm pretty sure that's not really in the spirit of things anyway.  It looks cool, its got massive power, its built by people who like having fun. 
I'm looking at it as something similar to the salt flat racers - a bit underground, a bit trial and error.  OK, the Trust involvement maybe removes it from your average garage enthusiast but for the most part its grass roots.  Go there, blow it up, come back and make it better.  Rinse and repeat..

67

I'd be right there behind them if we were still in the "i dunno try this!" phase of aerodynamics in the 1960s. Trial and error is only acceptable if the thing you are trying is something that hasn't been done before. Getting a car to do 400km/h is something that HAS been done before, making any trial and error irrelevant. There's information available to anyone with the means and inclination to go 400km/h (i.e. a team of Japanese tuning giants). If they were trying to build an S13 that would be the first S13 to do a barrel roll and stop in mid-air, then we'd have no room to suggest they should do anything, but they're not doing that, they're aiming for a goal which the whole of automotive experience up to this point suggests they will not achieve. For comparison, the record at Nardò is (or was, dunno if anyone's beaten it) 251mph (A bit higher than the goal of 400km/h, which I think is around 248mph) in a Mercedes C111-IV, an exceptionally low car, shaped like a fish with covered wheels, and with a 500bhp twin-turbo V8. That car had a drag coefficient of .195. What's the drag coefficient of this car? (btw, to people doubting the critics of this aero, almost the entire knowledge pool on aerodynamics is available to the public for anyone willing to study and understand it. Only current top-level stuff, LMPs and F1 stype aero, forces people to speculate. But taking the time to actually learn about this stuff isn't impossible witchcraft)
 
HOWEVER (don't know why i'm going to write this because I doubt anyone will even  finish the first paragraph), it is fun to get a group of mates together and build a car to try something, even if you eventually fail. If you look at this car as the product of huge tuning companies, then yes, it's obviously flawed. but if you see the car for what it actually is, several friends getting together to try and get a car they like to go as fast as possible, then the story becomes quite different. I suspect any of these guys would be pleased even if the car couldn't hit 285km/h, because building a car with your friends is fun even if you don't succeed. I think that's #2 in the handbook of building a car, and that's why i like this car, and wish them luck, even if I'd have done it differently.
 
also, I can't even begin to imagine how uncomfortable Ueta's going to be. Nardò is the antithesis of smooth tarmac, lol

68

@DrGoodSpeed Maybe they just put these injectors because the base was done for them ;)
for now it doesn't need to go quick.
 
in US maybe you've got this type of dyno, but for Japan (europe too) this type of power is uber rare ;)

69

a slick or semi-slick tyre take less temp at these type of speed ;)
and it's not a 200miles test ;)

70

@JDMized That is YOUR opinion (once again)...responses filled with opinions and opinions and opinions....it gets boring JDMized, it really does!

71

@Kitch Yeah, that's a good point here. I suppose most of the hate started since it got praised maybe a little too much before it was actually on the track. So far I'm pretty sure they're gonna do proper testing and figure out what is missing and fix it. 
They don't seem like people rushing to the track without setting up the car..

72

@Kitch Pretty much. I wonder though, is there anywhere for tuners like this to play with top speeds? The US has the Texas Mile, Salt Flats and smpty Death Valley lake beds. They have anything like that comparable in Japan?

73

@ComJive i hope with this power 300km/h is very easy, after ... it would be hard

74

@ComJive I read your entire essay, no worries.

75

@FunctionFirst  @Kitch I'm not the best source, sry about that, but they do like to have fun at Wangan races, with speed over 300kph. I suppose there's more then that, but I never cared about top speeds anyway. :)

76

@FunctionFirst  @JDMized You're aware that you're ALSO stating an opinion, right? Fact is, it will cost thousands of dollars to get this car to Nardo. And, him saying that the aero is not up to par is not an opinion, it's  fact. Study aerodynamics for a while, and you'll see that this car has no hope.

77

@JDMized Read other comments before making one.

78

It's good you have much to say over this matter, and I totally agree that it's very interesting to guess how far can they go.

79

@FunctionFirst  @JDMized What makes you think that it's done?

80

@FunctionFirst  @JDMized I gotta agree with JDMized on this one haha. The numbers they're shooting for require a bit more dedication and respect than "f*ck it, let's do this". Don't get me wrong it's a wicked cool project and I love the spirit, but they're shooting for a level that's a fair bit beyond flush wheels and bolt on fender flares. Unless they decide to do a massive redesign of the entire aero, suspension, and cage(for the love of god please beef up that cage, this thing is unsafe as hell), this car is destined to end in failure. No small modifications or "finishing it" are going to save it at this point. Maybe if it wasn't for all the hype people are giving this car and the extremely overly optimistic goals, this would be a more respectable project. As it is now, this car is a slap in the face to all the tuners and people who take these events seriously.

81

Whether it hits 400kph or not, mad props to the guys for building something original and a real monster!

82

Well, maybe they could use an airport runway or something like that.

83

The jealousy that envelopes this comment section is immense. Setting up such a lofty goal is just a gag for them. All the concern for the rollcage is ridiculous. I'm glad you all are so concerned with Ueta's safety but all that needed to be said was that the rollcage may need a revision, not all this gibberish about how incompetent they must be. Whether anyone else believes it or not, I'm sure this car is set to impress in Italy.

84

Great read !! But after thinking about the name "380SX", I think it should be 400SX. Since the Thrust 4.0 liter kit is installed, not the stock 3.8 kit. I want to see this monster drift the first corner at Suzuka. Or a top speed run dow the Wangan. Something, anything. Extremely hyped about this car.

85

Where are the gas station pictures. Can't have a Rocket Bunny kitted 180 without them!

86

Will they sell this sexy body kit?

87

@Hanma  @JDMized Let's be honest, the Japanese tuning industry has always been rather light on safety. How many times have you seen a TA car with the fuel tank not sealed off, sitting above the exhaust (like this car) or even in the passenger seat? We made a fuss over the cage in the cyber Evo when it first debuted as well. It's a trend that I don't see the Japanese TA community changing until something serious occurs or they decide on their own to change. More cage = more weight, more weight = slower. Not saying I agree with it all, but it is what it is.

88

Let us know if and when this thing runs at Nardo!
 
 @JDMized All you do is complain on this website, either about the cars or the article. Why keep coming back?

90
deleted_10386432_AndrewBrown2

Never mind the bolt-in roll cage(check the door cross bars), how about the tiny brakes? It's pretty cool, bug bugger doing 400km/h in that one :)

91
deleted_10386432_AndrewBrown2

Never mind the bolt-in roll cage(check the door cross bars), how about the tiny brakes? It's pretty cool, but bugger doing 400km/h in that one :)

92

@jjpae86  @JDMized The EXACT same thing could be said of you.

93

You know what this is? A 2013 version of the Napier-Railton that Mr Moore posted a few days ago. A ridiculous engine in a chassis that is, to be fair, not ideal. And I love it just as much! All this noise being made in the comments about aero this-and-that, cooling, brakes etc...It's NOT a race car for heavens' sake and it's not a purpose built land-speed record setting machine either. Can't we just enjoy it for the statement that it makes? and not what you think it should be?
PS love the shots Dino, keep up the astounding work.

94

@MCCLIFTED I agree, car is extremely over-hyped. I expect it will showed down our throats for the next 12 months.

95

@MCCLIFTED I agree, the car is extremely over-hyped. I expect it to be showed down our throats for the next 12 months.

96

@zamm333 What are you talking about? It's an R35 with RPS13 body and overhyped BenSopra body kit...

97

@FunctionFirst Stop being such a fanboy first.

98

@Hanma @FunctionFirst @JDMized Everything around us a giant slap in the face when it comes to anything that's good and worth doing, not just in the automotive world.

99

@MariusEngenSkinnes Sure, fanboy.

100

@speedhunters_dino Yet you claim that this car goes down in the history books as one baddest JDM machines? Interesting...

101

stock brakes?

102

@Mighty_Mite50 "Not a purpose-built land-speed record setting machine."
 
...but...they built it to set a speed record...

103

@rallenross 
 
Looks like z32 brakes

104

@Mighty_Mite50 They build it, not Built it.

105
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@rallenross This uses to be Ueta's old drift car so that's the brakes he was running before.  Like I mentioned the car isn't finished yet;)

106
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@Mighty_Mite50 Thank you sir!

107
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@Mighty_Mite50 True but also not true. At the end of the day its all done for a bit of fun, a lot of people have to realize that for the most part in Japan, there is no arrogance or bad attitude.

108
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@timuchin__ Yes of course, it's on sale already

109
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LOL

110
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@MCCLIFTED Despite the stroker kit, it's still a VR38 right?

111
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@SlideOrDie Thank you for not judging. Very refreshing ;)

112

Crazy machine!! Please try and get a go pro or some kind of camera stuck to it when they're street mapping it lol.

113
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@DomoKun LOL should make for interesting viewing I'm sure

114

I like it, im big a big geek when it come to super clean plumbing, this one pulls it off

115

@apex_DNAwhy u hating so much.....

116

Would have loved to have been part of this build.

117

@Hanma @FunctionFirst Well said Hanma.

118

11X18?

119

Whoever said that this car isnt capable of the task at hand, im sure YOU guys do know that trust/greddy have had their fair share in le mans protoype racers in the 90's, which means Ueta-san knows what hes doing. im sure they got along way to go in finishing  this beast, but i dont see why people are bashing this soo bad... like why you guys hating so much  lay off the haterade.....you guys  couldnt build something like this in your lifetime, keep your opinions to yourselves. If you dont have anything good to say then dont say it.

120

i meant to say kawashima-san

121

@speedhunters_dino You know Dino, after reading again your article and the comments, you're THE cause of this overly-hyped project. I mean, are you proud of generating this type of discussion?
Yes the car is not finished yet, we all know that.
I brought my "negative" comments to this thread because I'd like people to open their eyes about safety and how the Japanese disregard proper safety. Am I arrogant? Probably! Do you want me to be "omegoroshi" and sugar coat things?
It's just a matter of time before someone gets injured racing cars with such dinky cages. Remember the Z33 Inada san ran at the Silver State? That was a properly engineered cage....
Maybe you should try to get your good buddy Andrew Brillant on board and see if he can optimize the aero (it's a sarcastic joke). We all know that Andrew is capable of making this car generate tons of downforce. The problem is, Andrew is not as cool as Miura san....lol
and since Miura san is all hyped up these days, it really boils down to market those kits for those hopeless kids that constantly get shoveled down the throat your hyped up comments about extreme this and extreme that.
Be more subdle in your writing, because other well-known Japanese tuners deserve respect as well (you're not biased are you?).
Essentially what I'm trying to say is, this car is really cool, but not REMOTELY ready for such a big feat (Nardo).

122

Although i agree with the people saying the cage is inadiquate? (i have no idea how to spell that) and that its probably not going to get close to 400khm i think this still is a cool project, after all like said here it is built for pure fun

123

@jake Laird Who are you to tell them where it needs improvement? You've seen some pictures on the internet and your an expert? Where is your top speed builds or your engineering degree? And as for they "have no idea what they're doing", that's pretty rich coming from someone who probably has no idea what he's talking about.

124

@TheShinigami @Mighty_Mite50 Both wrong. They have built it OR they've built it.

125

@RBPS13 Criticism = hating? Grow up, fanboy...

126

@JDMized Have I told you that you need a website to incorporate SH content with your commentary? I'd be happy to send some traffic your way. It's very rare nowadays for people to say things how they see it, let alone think for themselves.

127

it's just going to be another top secret supra at nardo, it will go fast no doubt, but i cannot ever see it getting to 400, i'm thinking that some of the r35s going over will be quite surprising in there top speeds

128
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@777 far as I know most are running stock finals so not sure how much over 340-350 they can go

129
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@aldo_jdm69 yes

130

I find it a saddening that people find it appropriate to use comments to criticise someone's hard work they're having the FREE priviledge of seeing, even before it's finished. Bear in mind Bensopra.com wanted this car shot so people like you could see it and they WILL be reading these comments. If so many negative comments are made of Japanese tuner's cars, then don't be surprised when they become less keen to have their cars shot for you to feast eyes on.
Would you really rock up to a tuner's stand at TAS and tell him your opinions so strongly? Most wouldn't, so why spam the hard work you see before you with negativity? What's wrong with people these days? If you don't like what you see, fine. Shut up and ignore, or go somewhere else.

131

I find it a saddening that people find it appropriate to use comments to criticise someone's hard work they're having the FREE priviledge of seeing, even before it's finished. Bear in mind Bensopra.com wanted this car shot so people like you could see it and they WILL be reading these comments. If so many negative comments are made of Japanese tuner's cars, then don't be surprised when they become less keen to have their cars shot for you to feast eyes on.
Would you really rock up to a tuner's stand at TAS and tell him your opinions so strongly? Most wouldn't, so why spam the hard work you see before you with negativity? What's wrong with people these days? If you don't like what you see, fine. Shut up and ignore, or go somewhere else.

132

I think everyone should hold their comments until the car records some data. EVERYONE thinks they know it all and they need to check their ego.

133

@FunctionFirst  @JDMized its their money and their car so who cares?  so many internet worriers out there.

134

I hope this car makes it just to shut everyone up! your car hasnt been featured on SH so deal (at all the critics)

135

Speedhunters' Car of the Year 2013... Just saying... :D Great article guys, top stuff!! Thank you.

136

Dino, I'd suggest the persistent spammers should just be banned from posting on Speedhunters... They contribute nothing worthwhile to threads like this and just make it unpleasant for genuine enthusiasts to read comments which in turn may repel some from visitting Speedhunters. Few like to waste time reading such comments. More importantly there's the issue with how embarassing it may be for tuners to read derogatory comments posted on Speedhunters.
Make a warning - and if people refuse to be respectful of priviledge simply strip it off them.

137

SO much to love about this car. Nice write-up Dino... @sean, that 3/4 shot of the rear is #FKNAWSM

138

@FunctionFirst  @JDMized I believe in the case of safety, it is better to be proactive rather than reactive. Waiting for a nasty accident to happen before deciding to take safety seriously seems stupid to me honestly.
 
And to be totally clear for everyone else defending the car and whatnot, I think I can safely say that we all(including the haters) think it's an awesome car. Anyone can appreciate the work and creativity that went into making it. The car is not what we have a problem with. It's the hype and the claims that's producing all the negativity. If this car was introduced as anything else whether it be a drift car, weekend track car, or show car, we'd all probably be jumping on the bandwagon gushing over how great it is. Frankly, the build is pretty damn awesome to say the least. But if you're going to say it can go 400kph and will be the fastest car at the event, you might as well tell us it can fly and get angry when we call bullshit.

139

@Miguel Newera Not all enthusiasts have the same opinions, and enthusiasts should be allowed to voice their opinions. Most of the negative comments in this post have been fairly civil (mostly) and warrant legitimate questions/discussions. Just because you do or do not agree doesn't mean the opposing party should be banned. That's typically how police states are run. Just a friendly reminder that hate and discussions can be taken as constructive criticisms. Would hate to get banned from one of my favorite sites because some guy doesn't like it when no one believes the outrageous claims surrounding this car lol.

140

@Hanma
 I didn't say I like, dislike, believe it can do 400 km/h or not. I know what I think, but haven't commented on that.
I just find the arrogance and attitude of some pretty disrespectful, considering it's a priviledge, so I commented on that. Just as in forums, the crass posts will drive enthusiasts away, not attract them. A lot of car forums are suffering from this. It's a lack of respect and decent people aren't attracted by it.
 
Look at what you want for and from Speedhunters and ask yourselves if posting negagitivy is really appropriate before doing so here is all I'm saying.

141

@Hanma
 And bear in mind I referred to "persistent spammers". Obvious troublemakers, in other words.

142

@Miguel Newera I can agree with that. I believe negative comments are fine until they become straight up rude. Lol and ironically enough, most of the rude comments are being made by people "hating on the haters" so to speak, which in turn is starting minor flame wars consisting of personal insults between both sides. In these cases I agree that a little moderation/housekeeping by the admins would be nice. I wouldn't go as far as banning them though. Maybe temporary suspensions at most.

143

@apex_DNA  @TheShinigami  @Mighty_Mite50 Afaik it's not finished yet, and it's pretty clear to me.

144

Hella flush and hella fail, to much form and not enough function. There is 0% chance of this going 400kmph they might as well of said they where Intending to take it to the moon.
Cool car I'd love to own it.
It's great reading all the comments, apexdna and jdmized and a few others at least seem to have a basic idea on speed.
I mean look at other cars competing for top speed records at Lamborghini in nz pushing 1400whp couldn't break 360 and down the Texas mile cars making more power aren't getting 400.
Has anyone seen the surface at nardo, it's fucking shit if you wana go 400kmph choose somewhere a bit more safe and sensible. I bet the car doesn't even make it to nardo and even if it does I doubt it breaks 350 or even 330

145

The best thing about this car for me is the original concept by Kei Miura. Ie without that bonnet/hood.
Note that unless they are one and the same the Fuel cell is a Fuel Safe cell and not an ATL fuel cell.
There seems to be a general belief that this car/kit was created to break 400km/h. I don't think this is true. Rather it was an opportunity to use a spare motor and to update the rocket bunny kit with some ideas from his (Miuras) FR-S.

146

Folks, here is the fomula to top speed: Assuming no aerodynamics modification, standard car with say 220 HP top 220 km/r. then with 1100 HP the theoretical max achievable is: (1100 HP/220 HP) to the power 0.33333 then multiply all this by 220km/hr = 376 km/hr. 
 
Any comment / remark?

147

Wowww What a beautiful perfect build!@!! Very clean and innovating for an 180sx!

148

@James Cortez Your theory is sound but the numbers are out slightly - Stock 180SX with 205PS & quoted top speed of 230KM/H with 1100PS = theoretical top speed of 402.662KM/H. Obviously this doesn't take into consideration an awful lot of things...

149

@PaddyMcGrath Paddy, read my words carefully, I said "say 220 HP". I don't know how much power the stock 180 sx exactly it puts out. If it's true at 205 HP then yes 1100 HP will, theoretically, give a top speed you quoted. With that size rear wing..... it takes some km/h away at the end... drag

150

@apex_DNA  @RBPS13  haha yea if im a fan boy then your the resident troll that never has anything good to say..."aint nobody got time for that" write a page in your diary hobbit not flooding the forum comments with negativity  and quote on quote "criticism"

151

@apex_DNA  @speedhunters_dino Yet you are here spewing bs all over the place. Interesting...

152

@apex_DNA  @JDMized The only issue being you never mentioned safety in your first post but instead you resort to personally attack the person who is providing the articles YOU read.
 
No, one post only didn't do the trick for you either, didn't satisfy you enough. You're also the one asking for subtlety, quite hypocritical don't you think?
 
If you had a bit more decency in you and would bring forward your sometimes valid points in a more objective manner, you'd have more people agree with you and not only attract them "hopeless kids" as apex_DNA demonstrates.
 
Wait for him to pull the "fanboy" card next.

153

@apex_DNA  @JDMized The only issue being you never mentioned safety in your first post but instead you resort to personally attack the person who is providing the articles YOU read.
 
No, one post only didn't do the trick for you either, didn't satisfy you enough. You're also the one asking for subtlety, quite hypocritical don't you think?
 
If you had a bit more decency in you and would bring forward your sometimes valid points in a more objective manner, you'd have more people agree with you and not only attract them "hopeless kids" as apex_DNA demonstrates.
 
Wait for him to pull the "fanboy" card next.

154

@apex_DNA  Wow, you're easily the most annoying little shit around here. Do you even drive a car? Do you even have a clue? And stop sucking JDMized cock. Fuck.

155

@AlexGut  @apex_DNA  @JDMized "@speedhunters_dino You know Dino, after reading again your article and the comments, you're THE cause of this overly-hyped project. "
 
Your statement makes no sense Alex.

156

@RodChong  @apex_DNA  @JDMized  @speedhunters_dino  Hum, what part was off? I was referring to JDMized, he wrote "I brought my "negative" comments to this thread because I'd like people to open their eyes about safety and how the Japanese disregard proper safety."
 
If you scroll down in his first post he never mentioned any kind of safety.

157

@James Cortez  @PaddyMcGrath i see no sense in these theories... what about different weight, different wheel size, different gearing, aero...

158

You know those lambo's curb in at around 1500-2000 pounds more though, right?  Power to weight bro.  As a 700hp 240sx owner, I can attest to the fact that the car is light as hell.  That being said, I haven't recorded speeds higher than 250kms/hr  (A lot of that having to do with aero - or lack thereof)

159

@RodChong  @AlexGut  @apex_DNA  @speedhunters_dino I'm not sure why Dino hyped the article this way....
The car is cool, but with power alone it won't go far.
Air-suspensions? On a race car? They were not designed for cars that try to break speed records. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.
A Cage welded the way this 180 has doesn't provide enough safety for the driver, let that alone those Advan tires (not designed to hit that sort of speed).
 
In a nut-shell Rod, there are tons of flaws in this project (without going into SIMPLE aero).
Dino purposely worded the article to generate traffic/ interest....."maxing out injectors"? Injectors usually work at 85% duty cycle at most (above that, and you run into troubles).
I saw the car in person at TAS last week. The VQ38 is so tight in there, with all the heat a 1100hp engine will generate, I'd be VERY worried about catching it on fire....I can go on and on....
Dino (or you) want the articles to be written in a certain way....then be it, but don't complain if people don't agree with each other. Or if you prefer, I'll kiss up a bit.

160

@speedhunters_dino  The link I posted below shows you an attempt to break the speed record.
A Porsche engineered and designed to break the 400 km/h record at Nardo (5 years ago, with 5 years old technology), nonetheless designed by engineers that know what they were doing, not a bodykit designer (as much as Miura san designs cool stuff, this area doesn't suits his interests)....
Anyway, I'll let the car speak for itself. Maybe next time you write something similar, you'll think twice about word-choice :)
http://www.rsportscars.com/porsche/2007-porsche-911-turbo-mission-400-plus-by-jurgen-alzen-motorsport/

161

Here is a car that had a chance to break the record, but didn't, and those guys are engineers.
http://www.rsportscars.com/porsche/2007-porsche-911-turbo-mission-400-plus-by-jurgen-alzen-motorsport/

162

@James Cortez  @PaddyMcGrath Also, aerodynamic drag increases with the square of velocity.  Cd=(2Fd)/(rho*V^2*A)  Basically, given the same frontal area, if V doubles drag goes up by 4x.  If V triples, drag goes up by 9x.  This renders this type of, "If 200 hp gets me to x, then 1000 will get me to y" calculation using simple ratios highly unrealistic.

163

@JDMized  @AlexGut  @apex_DNA  @speedhunters_dino I think you might be going a bit far with your conspiracy theory Alex. This article is written in the same spirit as any other which we would have done in the past. There are no extra plans here to "overhype (whatever that meens)" the build. 
 
There certainly has been a lot of lot feedback on many elements of the build, which of course if all good. We shall see what happens with this car over the course of the next 2 years. For now, it sounds like there is a way to go before it's complete.

164

@JDMized@AlexGut@apex_DNA@speedhunters_dino
I think you might be going a bit far with your conspiracy theory Alex. This article is written in the same spirit as any other which we would have done in the past. There are no extra plans here to "overhype (whatever that meens)" the build. 
 
There certainly has been a lot of lot feedback on many elements of the build, which of course is all good. We shall see what happens with this car over the course of the next 2 years. For now, it sounds like there is a way to go before it's complete.

165

Like many have said we have to wait and see til project is completed, I think they have adequate power on tap, it comes down to the aerodynamics now, power weight ratio is great but more importantly is finding the balance between coefficient of drag and down force. A lot of people harp on the Bugatti's power but its more its shape and down force that play a key roll

166

@James Cortez Unfortunately if it was that simple it would be well...that simple. There are so many more things that come into achieving a top speed than what you said. Gear ratios, tire sizes as someone above me mentioned, co efficient of drag, frontal area, altitude, air speed...
 
If it was as simple as you said I think we would all be well paid F1 aerodynamicists.

167

What a crazy build, personally I don't think they will achieve 400Ks, but this is a really unique build none the less. Very cool.

168

@AdamMcCorriston Are you serious? I have a 335i that has maxed at 250km/h with a factory engine producing maybe 280whp. I find that really hard to believe you can't get to 250k with a 700hp 240SX.
 
I should mention that was non GPS verified and speedo indicated. My 2nd Gen Miata got up to 132mph indicated with 142bhp also non GPS verified but speedo indicated.

169

@Hanma  @Miguel Newera Preach brothers! Preach!

170

@apex_DNA  @speedhunters_dino this was a legitimate question about suspension, not one to be used to direct hate at Dino, or your opinion of his article. that's specifically why i asked about the suspension and not your opinion of the journalist.  that being said, does anyone, including yourself know about the quality of this suspension in racing conditions?

171

To avoid confusion, this is the air suspension system used: http://www.roberuta.com/english/index.html
These systems by Robertura are fitted to Ferrari 458 and other supercars as factory options. They don't affect suspension performance when not in use.

172

@PaddyMcGrath Paddy, this formula on max speed applies if everything else remains the same (weight, aerodynamics, friction etc). That's physics they teach in college! My college, OU

173

@PaddyMcGrath Paddy, this formula on max speed applies if everything else remains the same (weight, aerodynamics, friction etc). That's physics they teach in college! My college, OU

174

Not sure if I missed it or not, but is it AWD? I assumed it was with the swap from the R35, but not too sure.

175

Not sure if I missed it or not, but is it AWD? I assumed it was with the swap from the R35, but not too sure.

176

@EricSeanDelaney
Yep. You missed it.
It is rwd. Holinger gearbox.

177

@EricSeanDelaney
Yep. You missed it.
It is rwd. Holinger gearbox.

178

Couldn't hold it for long enough to climb higher.  I was watching my intake and water temps climb by the second.  Also, this was on public roads,  Haven't had a chance to get her on an airstrip or anywhere safe enough to do it. I'm kinda depressed now, hearing that your stock 3 would hit that.  She pulls hard as fuck to 240. then she slows off a bit, but still climbs.  Gearing is a factor too. I'm running an R32 GTR Diff, so my final drive suffers. but accells quicker.    If I put a 300zx trans in and swapped my final drive it would make worlds of differance

179

Couldn't hold it for long enough to climb higher.  I was watching my intake and water temps climb by the second.  Also, this was on public roads,  Haven't had a chance to get her on an airstrip or anywhere safe enough to do it. I'm kinda depressed now, hearing that your stock 3 would hit that.  She pulls hard as fuck to 240. then she slows off a bit, but still climbs.  Gearing is a factor too. I'm running an R32 GTR Diff, so my final drive suffers. but accells quicker.    If I put a 300zx trans in and swapped my final drive it would make worlds of differance

180
speedhunters_dino

@KStyle  @EricSeanDelaney It's the swap from their R35 but that driveline was based around a Hollinger sequential and an R34 rear end, so it's RWD :)

181
speedhunters_dino

Who knows if they will, I think as Ueta pointed out, the fun will be in finding out if it will or not

182
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@JDMized Thanks for your continuous condescending comments Alex. They in no way bring anything to the discussion people are having on here as usual, but since you continue to regurgitate assumed knowledge from your years of experience in Japan, working as a race engineer or whatever you want us to believe your background is, there is one BIG thing you actually seem to completely miss out understanding.  Unlike race teams and exotic tuners from Germany, BenSopra like a ton of shops in Japan aren't engineers, they are tuners, mechanics that have tested their theories over the years, building cars, breaking them, blowing them up, crashing them or whatever. With your vast experience in everything JDM-oriented you should know the spirit a lot of these shops have, the "let's see what the hell we can do with this car and have fun along the way" approach.  If they get results or break records while doing so, it will be a bonus, but for the most part they get on board projects for the ride.  Surely that's a good enough reason to have a bit of fun with your car?  Of course that's, as you keep on putting it, purely my opinion...but if you don't like it that's perfectly fine with me :)

183
speedhunters_dino

@Speedhunters_Rob Thanks m8!

184

Good luck in Nardo!

185

@speedhunters_dino  @JDMized LOL "race engineer" race cars CRASH because of these people too

186
speedhunters_dino

@NormanCarpio  @JDMized Of course that is true too, but it's not what Alex wants us to believe lol

187

pictures are cool n all, but can we get some video? :O

188

:o this car is nuts!! love how raw the rear of the car looks!
please tell me someone is going to be covering the event!

189

@speedhunters_dino Oh for sure. It will be awesome to see what they achieve. It's a completely insane build and it made me do one of those head tilts dogs do when they dunno wtf they just saw haha. 
 
As for 400ks though...just a hunch from looking at the shape of the body and some of the open gaps in the front area of the car...it just looks like it has too much drag. I could be wrong and I might eat my words later on, but it just looks like it has enough drag at 200 + mph those gaps are going to be taking a lot of wind resistance in my opinion. Not to mention I don't recall seeing any car break 250mph (correct me if I'm wrong please) with a fixed angle wing that isn't retractable or can change its shape at speed. 
 
One things for certain though: there better be video of this monster at Nardo!

190

@AdamMcCorriston Good points, it all depends on what youre going for with your build. Top speed isn't a huge deal (to me) and to be honest if I had a 240SX with a good cooling system and 700bhp I would probably gear the car to top out around 170mph (if I had enough money to buy a customer trans for the application). Sounds like you need to look at your cooling system's flow and the size of your radiator etc. 
 
If you're into designing and doing work yourself I would advise reading A. Graham Bell's book "forced induction tuning." lots of good information on cooling systems, formulas for radiator sizes etc. 
 
A properly built 240 with 700bhp would be an absolute monster on the track. Are you running a turbo SR20 or are you working with a swap like an LS or something?

191

@AdamMcCorriston custom trans* damn...typos are killing me lately.

192

@AdamMcCorriston Ahhh no sir, that's WHP.  lol  SR. tomei 2.2 stroker. but she's closer to a 2.3.  9.5:1 comp pistons,, 284 cams, half inch head studs, bully built race motor, spared no expense, Built and balanced by mazworx.  T42 turbo, 2000cc Injector dynamics.  12k rpm redline.  made 680 wheel @ 28psi and spun the dyno.  We assume it would have hit higher than 7, but we didn't get it on paper. Since then It's  been paired with a GTX38 at 16psi and wayyyy smaller injectors, and is making only 580,, but is much more streetable.  HAve to ditch my Power FC and get a differant standalone to tune low end drivability - And - peak power.  (right now i have to sacrifice one for the other due to limits in Apex'i and datalogit's software

193

I'd love to join in the controversy on this car but i can't make out the  pictures! Quite often the images on SH appear heavily pixellated on first opening the page and i have to key shift+A to bump the display resolution. Fine. But i've noticed that a few of the recent posts refuse to impove res, no matter how many times i do shift+A. It's frustrating 'cos no matter what else might be said Mr D C, i'm sure the car & photos are gorgeous... i just can't see 'em properly. Any ideas how to fix? Thanks.

194

@tenpennyjimmy That's really weird... have you tried using another browser? Sounds like it could be browser zoom...

195

@sean klingelhoefer Thanks for getting back to me Mr Klingelhoefer. So far tried Firefox and Rastafari, no joy. It's a shame 'cos i had some killer points to make on the debate - was going to sort the whole thing out for you guys ;) Peace.

196

Any video of this car driving?  I'd like to hear it open up.

197

@AdamMcCorriston Understandable. 12,000rpm redline? I've never heard of that in an SR, but then again I don't really follow that scene a whole lot. Are there any videos of it?

198

Words on the street suggest this car was not ready to be shipped to Nardo.
Not the people involved in this project will have plenty of time to fix some of those aero flaws :)

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Thank you.

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@AdamMcCorriston A few on my facebook, but the swap only about a season old, so not much vid.  Tomei and Mazworx say it's good to 12'000 rpm.  I don't know how long it'd last there though.  I made peak power at 8700 with the old turbo,, (well,,,,,,,, that's the point the rollers spun) right now it's tuned to 10'200 rpm with the current setup. but makes peak at 9k

201

@ I love fanboys
 
Thank you, sir.

202

@Miguel Newera Don't you think said censorship will "repel" even larger number of enthusiasts?

203

@Miguel Newera  You do realize that outrageous claims (as user Hanma pointed out) by one party can lead to "lack of respect" by another, right? Thus "decent people" are more likely to comment on it (hence the "negativity"), instead of believing the hype.

204

@Miguel Newera Ever heard the saying "what's not gonna kill you, will make you stronger"? A true "tuner" (what is it '90s again?) will either welcome constructive citisism on the subject or not give two flying f---s about what you have say about it, only the weak will "care" and get butt-hurt over some commentary...

205

@RBPS13 Please try to understand that nobody really "hates" the people involved in said project, it's only that enthusiasts are having a hard time digesting the hype created by this very article.
 
PS - Didn't you get the memo a few years ago that only "ricers" use the term "hate"? So if I was you I'd try my best not to use it in the future, that is if you ever wanna be taken seriously.

206

@RBPS13  Fanboy is angry.

207

@AlexGut First I wanna say that I don't always agree with JDMized, and even then I don't find the urge to "critisize" him, simply because I don't find his claims outrageous.
 
I have NO problem with the car itself, or the people invloved. In fact, I have patiently waited for an explantion as to why the "stance", or the brakes too small, or as others have pointed, the lacking in the safety department, amongst other things, and I think DC did a fine job (but who am I to say) at explaining most of it, ultimately letting us know that the car is in progress...BUT as I have implied previously, if such bold statements like "THE car of 2013" or "the car that will go down in history as the most extreme Japanese tuner projects ever created" (which has since been removed) weren't made, then there wouldn't be any point for you to pull out the "hate" card either, kapeesh?

208

@Chris7opher @AdamMcCorriston
I don't see how your 335i or Mazda are relevant in any way. You do know as you go faster you need much more horsepower or failing that, being very slippery(aerodynamic).

209

@AlexGut  Aren't you doing the same thing? Interesting...

210

@AdamMcCorriston You do realize power to weight matters very little in a top speed car, right? A lot of cars that run at the Bonneville salt flats have ADDED weight to keep them more stable. All about aero and power at that kind of speed

211

@AdamMcCorriston You do realize power to weight matters very little in a top speed car, right? A lot of cars that run at the Bonneville salt flats have ADDED weight to keep them more stable. All about aero and power at that kind of speed

212

@RBPS13 What's good about it has already been said, didn't you read article? I guess you were too busy "trolling", whatever that means.

213

@speedhunters_dino

214

@AdamMcCorriston I wouldn't imagine long. I trained under guys who built Nascar V8s and the piston speed of a motor has a large influence on how long components will last if I recall correclty. This is why all F1 motors are such short stroke. If you have a shorter stroke you have to rev the hell out of a motor to produce power and if you have a longer stroke you run a risk at higher revs. Yeah I mean a lot of engine packages are good to x RPM it just depends on how long they'll last at the aforementioned limitations.
 
I forget all the tiny nuances because it's been so long since I've studied this stuff in depth, but I know 12,000 RPM on a stroked SR20 set an alarm off in my head.  Peak at 9k and redline at 10,200 seems like you are already approaching the limits of a stroked motor. If someone with engineering experience can chime in on this I would greatly appreciate it. I'll do some research after I post this to see what I can dig up. 
 
I race two stroke karts and I'm a humble student by all means. The engine I race can rev to 17,000 rpm but peak power is produced somewhere around 14-15 thousand. We run a restricted carb that tops at 15,500rpm and the life of the motor is improved around 40% just be revving 2-3k under the maximum RPM possible. 
 
After 15,500 there isn't really an increase in horsepower or torque produced so it's almost pointless to rev to 17. In fact on some kart tracks you actually pick up time in the corners because the air flow of the smaller carb produced more midrange which is essential to maintaining power in a corner. The tighter the track the more the smaller carb is favored. The bigger carb pulls on the straights which makes up a ton of time, but if you ran a track that was made of constant corners you would struggle to get in the power band of the larger carbureted engine. 
 
Either way, 700whp in anything is pretty badass. I drove a 600 + hp 2013 Benz a few months ago and even though the car was 3800lbs or so I was still amazed at how fast it was on the street. Unless you're doing time attack and seriously competing with a car IMO 500-600whp is mental on the street. I've been in a Carrera GT before too which was absolutely insane and over kill. 
 
Thats what I think keeps me interested in cars though...they are so dynamic and what is fast in one application is slow or cumbersome in another. It's such a dynamic world of tuning and philosophy. Speed Hunters brings it all to the table and has something for everyone. Cool to talk to someone as humble as you who clearly gets it and seems practical in his quest for speed.

215

@varilight  @Chris7opher  @AdamMcCorriston We were having a side conversation that was independent of the main topic by the original poster. 
 
They aren't relevant to the 400kmh challenge at all haha. However, I do not think the car in this feature will do 400km/h because of the huge rear wing and the over all shape of the body. I'm not a pro aerodynamicist so I could be talking complete and utter shit, but I've studied guys like Luigi Colani in depth (who is one of the worlds leading aerodynamicists) and just based on the shape of the front end and the rear wing I don't think this car will achieve 400ks.
 
It's a super badass build and I think it would be an absolute monster on a circuit, but as far as top speed I just don't see the aero. I'm really hoping there is video coverage of this car so I can see how accurate my initial observations were. I'm just speculating, but I know it takes a lot of power to achieve 250 + mph and it takes aero more than top speed. 
 
Research Luigi Colani, he is a brilliant designer who has been designing cars since the 40s. He's getting very old now and it's a shame he was never a "tuner" of sorts. Here is a link to some of his work: 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEhm416KXYo

216

@apex_DNA You still do not appear to understand. I'm commenting because people like you need to be told how to behave at times, possibly even with harsh words since it might be the only language you understand.
 
It's never been about valid arguments itself. It's how you use those arguments to conveniently justify your inability to objectively express yourself. I shall not even start talking about you randomly goin around this comment section and calling people "fanboys" over and over.
 
In short: Stop being a dick when posting.
 
You and especially JDMized just keep repeating yourselves throughout the entire comment section annoying people and trying to sound superior to everyone else with what ever qualification you may have.
 
If you insist I'll point out the inconsistencies of both of your postings.
 
I'm posting comments because if people like you would not be told that your weak social behaviour does not belong here, other people may think it is OK to be like that in the Speedhunters comment section and we may find more of these conversations like between you and I right now. I admit, mine do not belong here as much as yours.
 
 
Dear Speedhunters, please start moderating your comments section, you're reading all comments anyway! Please approve people that add valueable information and ask valid questions. I don't mind being blocked from commenting as long as that means people like these are stopped from spreading their poison.
 
You have the ability to turn 'em into possibly valueable commenters by moderating. Right now all they are, is being an upsetting and worthless person to the entire Speedhunters community.

217

@varilight  @AdamMcCorriston Will not do * damn I'm telling you these typos are killing me. I need to get a PA to proof read all my posts lately. Blame it on Le Blond.

218

@AdamMcCorriston
 As for the stroke being a limitation to the rpm you make power at, it isn't as long as long as it's strong enough to hold together. A Pro Stock engine has about 95mm stroke and make NA power at about 10500 rpm these days. Boost it or drop 4-valve heads on it and it would go further. It's all about airflow capability, a 2-valve head within the PS rules just can't breathe to much more. I have seen 100+mm (that's 4" stroke) rev 14 000 rpm in a 4-valve turbo import drag application and no, they did not tear it down after every run, so it did have decent life for such an extreme application, 25 passes or so. :)

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speedhunters_dino

@JDMized Yes looks like they won't be going. I'll pass your message on to Miura-san regarding the aero.

220
speedhunters_dino

@SteveKeegan Sorry no video just yet but maybe soon...

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speedhunters_dino

@tenpennyjimmy  @sean klingelhoefer That is very strange. Is it a firewall problem maybe?

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speedhunters_dino

@Nikhil_P Looks like they won't be making it after all

223

No I agree that it is good to criticize, but as far as my education goes I'm nothing in comparison to the creators of this machine, and as far as the Veyron goes I have never been impressed. When you boil it all down (and even with comparison to the 380sx) these Japanese tuners have pulled out a higher hp number with less than half the cylinders and half the turbos, And a LOT lower of a budget. The Veyron is quite disappointing when you really think about it. Also I agree, they probably wont reach that target speed but in trying to do so they have created the most badass s chassis on the planet.

224

@BenS867  @AdamMcCorriston I was actually going to make that point, thanks for bringing it up. I've never been to Bonneville, but guys do add weight as you said. Interesting point to note when you hear so much about power to weight being everything these days.

225

@SWR  @AdamMcCorriston Are you referring to a push rod style motor when you talk about a 2 valve engine? I've seen it debated that 1 large intake valve can flow just as much air as a 2 valve because you are dealing with less area when you try to stuff 4 valves into the head of a motor. 
 
As far as air flow capacity that does have to do with the valves, but it also has to do with so many other things: the way the air gets to the head, the porting of the head itself, angle the valves and seats are cut at. You can certainly flow air on a 2 valve head. When I was studying Nascar engines at school I came across an interesting article. If you're interested check this out. It's a comparison of F1 V8s to Nascar V8s with some very interesting results: 
 
http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/comparison_of_cup_to_f1.htm
 
Obviously the F1 engine is going to be lighter and uses materials that are leaps and bounds beyond Nascar, but consider what the Cup guys are using and it's actually extraordinary what they are able to accomplish.

226

@SWR  @AdamMcCorriston Are you referring to a push rod style motor when you talk about a 2 valve engine? I've seen it debated that 1 large intake valve can flow just as much air as a 2 valve because you are dealing with less area when you try to stuff 4 valves into the head of a motor. 
 
As far as air flow capacity that does have to do with the valves, but it also has to do with so many other things: the way the air gets to the head, the porting of the head itself, angle the valves and seats are cut at. You can certainly flow air on a 2 valve head. When I was studying Nascar engines at school I came across an interesting article. If you're interested check this out. It's a comparison of F1 V8s to Nascar V8s with some very interesting results: 
 
http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/comparison_of_cup_to_f1.htm
 
Obviously the F1 engine is going to be lighter and uses materials that are leaps and bounds beyond Nascar, but consider what the Cup guys are using and it's actually extraordinary what they are able to accomplish.

227

@SWR  @AdamMcCorriston Are you referring to a push rod style motor when you talk about a 2 valve engine? I've seen it debated that 1 large intake valve can flow just as much air as a 2 valve because you are dealing with less area when you try to stuff 4 valves into the head of a motor. 
 
As far as air flow capacity that does have to do with the valves, but it also has to do with so many other things: the way the air gets to the head, the porting of the head itself, angle the valves and seats are cut at. You can certainly flow air on a 2 valve head. When I was studying Nascar engines at school I came across an interesting article. If you're interested check this out. It's a comparison of F1 V8s to Nascar V8s with some very interesting results: 
 
http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/comparison_of_cup_to_f1.htm
 
Obviously the F1 engine is going to be lighter and uses materials that are leaps and bounds beyond Nascar, but consider what the Cup guys are using and it's actually extraordinary what they are able to accomplish.

228

@SWR  @AdamMcCorriston Are you referring to a push rod style motor when you talk about a 2 valve engine? I've seen it debated that 1 large intake valve can flow just as much air as a 2 valve because you are dealing with less area when you try to stuff 4 valves into the head of a motor. 
 
As far as air flow capacity that does have to do with the valves, but it also has to do with so many other things: the way the air gets to the head, the porting of the head itself, angle the valves and seats are cut at. You can certainly flow air on a 2 valve head. When I was studying Nascar engines at school I came across an interesting article. If you're interested check this out. It's a comparison of F1 V8s to Nascar V8s with some very interesting results: 
 
http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/comparison_of_cup_to_f1.htm
 
Obviously the F1 engine is going to be lighter and uses materials that are leaps and bounds beyond Nascar, but consider what the Cup guys are using and it's actually extraordinary what they are able to accomplish.

229

@SWR  @AdamMcCorriston Are you referring to a push rod style motor when you talk about a 2 valve engine? I've seen it debated that 1 large intake valve can flow just as much air as a 2 valve because you are dealing with less area when you try to stuff 4 valves into the head of a motor. 
 
As far as air flow capacity that does have to do with the valves, but it also has to do with so many other things: the way the air gets to the head, the porting of the head itself, angle the valves and seats are cut at. You can certainly flow air on a 2 valve head. When I was studying Nascar engines at school I came across an interesting article. If you're interested check this out. It's a comparison of F1 V8s to Nascar V8s with some very interesting results: 
 
http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/comparison_of_cup_to_f1.htm
 
Obviously the F1 engine is going to be lighter and uses materials that are leaps and bounds beyond Nascar, but consider what the Cup guys are using and it's actually extraordinary what they are able to accomplish.

230

Good luck to them!

231

Good luck to them!

232

Good luck to them!

233

Good luck to them!

234

Good luck to them!

235

I talk about most any 2-valve head, really. You can only stuff "that big" of a valve in there for a given bore size before the bore itself - or the fact you need an exhaust valve to share the room with it - becomes the masking of the flow curtain. 53.5-54% of the bore area is what we work with these days. Any more and you're on the path of diminishing results as the achitecture itself becomes the limiing factor. 
 
And the lifts you need to make that valve really flow some when you can't stuff a bigger valve in there is easily outpaced in cfm's by a moderate sized 4-valve head (using maybe just 50% of the bore area) with a much gentler peak lift value. Most ALL single-intake engines are valve limited flow-wise, that's the stick in the spokes that holds the design back. Not dissing the Cup guys in any way, they do an awesome job with what they got.
 
Sure, you CAN make a maxed out 2-valve flow the same as a 4-valve one if you spend enough hours and cubic dollars at it, but the latter has an easier time by far. As for the engine, it just knows what flow it's getting at that point in the cycle, it has no idea if it has 1, 2, 3 or 4 intake valves and you can open up a considerably bigger window sooner with twin intakes. Neither does the engine know the valve angles, the port shape, or anything. All that comes down to how much flow is available to fill the "piston demand" when the cylinder asks for it and a 4-valve can deliver that a lot easier.
 
Then again, BIG flow is not the most needed (any idiot can make a big hole that flows like a drain pipe IF he can physically fit the valve, which is the REAL showstopper, not the port) at all, screw up the port areas, shape and velocity and you can have all the flow on the bench you want, it will be a dog until you're far up in midrange, then it will just rocket off (if it ever gets on song before it hits the limiter). The tricky thing about porting not making the cfm, but making the most efficient shape to manage the velocity (priority 1!) and then make it flow enough through that shape. :)

236

I talk about most any 2-valve head, really. You can only stuff "that big" of a valve in there for a given bore size before the bore itself - or the fact you need an exhaust valve to share the room with it - becomes the masking of the flow curtain. 53.5-54% of the bore area is what we work with these days. Any more and you're on the path of diminishing results as the achitecture itself becomes the limiing factor. 
 
And the lifts you need to make that valve really flow some when you can't stuff a bigger valve in there is easily outpaced in cfm's by a moderate sized 4-valve head (using maybe just 50% of the bore area) with a much gentler peak lift value. Most ALL single-intake engines are valve limited flow-wise, that's the stick in the spokes that holds the design back. Not dissing the Cup guys in any way, they do an awesome job with what they got.
 
Sure, you CAN make a maxed out 2-valve flow the same as a 4-valve one if you spend enough hours and cubic dollars at it, but the latter has an easier time by far. As for the engine, it just knows what flow it's getting at that point in the cycle, it has no idea if it has 1, 2, 3 or 4 intake valves and you can open up a considerably bigger window sooner with twin intakes. Neither does the engine know the valve angles, the port shape, or anything. All that comes down to how much flow is available to fill the "piston demand" when the cylinder asks for it and a 4-valve can deliver that a lot easier.
 
Then again, BIG flow is not the most needed (any idiot can make a big hole that flows like a drain pipe IF he can physically fit the valve, which is the REAL showstopper, not the port) at all, screw up the port areas, shape and velocity and you can have all the flow on the bench you want, it will be a dog until you're far up in midrange, then it will just rocket off (if it ever gets on song before it hits the limiter). The tricky thing about porting not making the cfm, but making the most efficient shape to manage the velocity (priority 1!) and then make it flow enough through that shape. :)

237

I talk about most any 2-valve head, really. You can only stuff "that big" of a valve in there for a given bore size before the bore itself - or the fact you need an exhaust valve to share the room with it - becomes the masking of the flow curtain. 53.5-54% of the bore area is what we work with these days. Any more and you're on the path of diminishing results as the achitecture itself becomes the limiing factor. 
 
And the lifts you need to make that valve really flow some when you can't stuff a bigger valve in there is easily outpaced in cfm's by a moderate sized 4-valve head (using maybe just 50% of the bore area) with a much gentler peak lift value. Most ALL single-intake engines are valve limited flow-wise, that's the stick in the spokes that holds the design back. Not dissing the Cup guys in any way, they do an awesome job with what they got.
 
Sure, you CAN make a maxed out 2-valve flow the same as a 4-valve one if you spend enough hours and cubic dollars at it, but the latter has an easier time by far. As for the engine, it just knows what flow it's getting at that point in the cycle, it has no idea if it has 1, 2, 3 or 4 intake valves and you can open up a considerably bigger window sooner with twin intakes. Neither does the engine know the valve angles, the port shape, or anything. All that comes down to how much flow is available to fill the "piston demand" when the cylinder asks for it and a 4-valve can deliver that a lot easier.
 
Then again, BIG flow is not the most needed (any idiot can make a big hole that flows like a drain pipe IF he can physically fit the valve, which is the REAL showstopper, not the port) at all, screw up the port areas, shape and velocity and you can have all the flow on the bench you want, it will be a dog until you're far up in midrange, then it will just rocket off (if it ever gets on song before it hits the limiter). The tricky thing about porting not making the cfm, but making the most efficient shape to manage the velocity (priority 1!) and then make it flow enough through that shape. :)

238

I talk about most any 2-valve head, really. You can only stuff "that big" of a valve in there for a given bore size before the bore itself - or the fact you need an exhaust valve to share the room with it - becomes the masking of the flow curtain. 53.5-54% of the bore area is what we work with these days. Any more and you're on the path of diminishing results as the achitecture itself becomes the limiing factor. 
 
And the lifts you need to make that valve really flow some when you can't stuff a bigger valve in there is easily outpaced in cfm's by a moderate sized 4-valve head (using maybe just 50% of the bore area) with a much gentler peak lift value. Most ALL single-intake engines are valve limited flow-wise, that's the stick in the spokes that holds the design back. Not dissing the Cup guys in any way, they do an awesome job with what they got.
 
Sure, you CAN make a maxed out 2-valve flow the same as a 4-valve one if you spend enough hours and cubic dollars at it, but the latter has an easier time by far. As for the engine, it just knows what flow it's getting at that point in the cycle, it has no idea if it has 1, 2, 3 or 4 intake valves and you can open up a considerably bigger window sooner with twin intakes. Neither does the engine know the valve angles, the port shape, or anything. All that comes down to how much flow is available to fill the "piston demand" when the cylinder asks for it and a 4-valve can deliver that a lot easier.
 
Then again, BIG flow is not the most needed (any idiot can make a big hole that flows like a drain pipe IF he can physically fit the valve, which is the REAL showstopper, not the port) at all, screw up the port areas, shape and velocity and you can have all the flow on the bench you want, it will be a dog until you're far up in midrange, then it will just rocket off (if it ever gets on song before it hits the limiter). The tricky thing about porting not making the cfm, but making the most efficient shape to manage the velocity (priority 1!) and then make it flow enough through that shape. :)

239

I talk about most any 2-valve head, really. You can only stuff "that big" of a valve in there for a given bore size before the bore itself - or the fact you need an exhaust valve to share the room with it - becomes the masking of the flow curtain. 53.5-54% of the bore area is what we work with these days. Any more and you're on the path of diminishing results as the achitecture itself becomes the limiing factor. 
 
And the lifts you need to make that valve really flow some when you can't stuff a bigger valve in there is easily outpaced in cfm's by a moderate sized 4-valve head (using maybe just 50% of the bore area) with a much gentler peak lift value. Most ALL single-intake engines are valve limited flow-wise, that's the stick in the spokes that holds the design back. Not dissing the Cup guys in any way, they do an awesome job with what they got.
 
Sure, you CAN make a maxed out 2-valve flow the same as a 4-valve one if you spend enough hours and cubic dollars at it, but the latter has an easier time by far. As for the engine, it just knows what flow it's getting at that point in the cycle, it has no idea if it has 1, 2, 3 or 4 intake valves and you can open up a considerably bigger window sooner with twin intakes. Neither does the engine know the valve angles, the port shape, or anything. All that comes down to how much flow is available to fill the "piston demand" when the cylinder asks for it and a 4-valve can deliver that a lot easier.
 
Then again, BIG flow is not the most needed (any idiot can make a big hole that flows like a drain pipe IF he can physically fit the valve, which is the REAL showstopper, not the port) at all, screw up the port areas, shape and velocity and you can have all the flow on the bench you want, it will be a dog until you're far up in midrange, then it will just rocket off (if it ever gets on song before it hits the limiter). The tricky thing about porting not making the cfm, but making the most efficient shape to manage the velocity (priority 1!) and then make it flow enough through that shape. :)

240

@SWR That was well said and in line with what I have been told and read from various experienced engine tuner and designers. 
 
I'm a huge fan of both types of motors and I suppose it all depends on the application. It's fascinating to me when you consider the amount of variables and design parameters that go into creating a motor with a usable powerband for circuit racing or a top end power band for top speed racing. You reminded me of a couple things I had forgotten over the years. It's been a while since I've built a motor or even gone to a track day with my kart. Need to get back at it, managing business projects just drains that free time! 
 
I like 2 valve and 4 valve engines, V8s and 4 cylinders, I really don't have a preference, but I do love the feeling of big torque. I've raced things that weighed 1200lbs with 300hp K20s and I've driven as I mentioned a 2013 twin turbo V8 mercedes. 
 
It all depends on the application. I wouldn't build a hill climb car the same way I would build a circuit car nor a top speed car. Right now I'm really into karting, but I would love to do a Zcars mini eventually with a turbo K24.

241

@chris7opher  "That was well said and in line with what I have been told and read from various experienced engine tuner and designers."
 
Thank you, I hope so or else I would have to quit this engine building business and get a new day job.. :D  I'm a fan of two opposites, I like small turbocharged ones like my GSX-R1342 Turbo or turbocharged ones in general really, and old aircraft engines, Merlins, Allisons, Griffons, you name it. But now we're MILES away from topic of this thread, so maybe we should shut up before they bring the Ban Hammer down on us? :)

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@chris7opher  "That was well said and in line with what I have been told and read from various experienced engine tuner and designers."
 
Thank you, I hope so or else I would have to quit this engine building business and get a new day job.. :D  I'm a fan of two opposites, I like small turbocharged ones like my GSX-R1342 Turbo or turbocharged ones in general really, and old aircraft engines, Merlins, Allisons, Griffons, you name it. But now we're MILES away from topic of this thread, so maybe we should shut up before they bring the Ban Hammer down on us? :)

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@SWR Shoot me an email or yours, mine is Nb8ch@Hotmail.com
 
Would like to know more about your company etc.

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@SWR Shoot me an email or yours, mine is Nb8ch@Hotmail.com
 
Would like to know more about your company etc.

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Heard something interesting today from the horse's mouth so to speak. The entire fuel system for this car came from http://www.kinokuni-e.com
Few will know why, but those who have seen their A/N fittings in their hands and know the differences in quaility will...
Nice to see little details like these.

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@SWR If they cracked down on us for having a positive side conversation I would stop visiting this site permanently. With all the garbage going on on these blogs the least speed hunters shoudl be concerned about is two guys having a good side conversation. 
 
We should be able to talk about whatever we want so long as it was sparked by the original post. No one has to read this if they don't want to. We're not calling each other names or belittling Speedhunters so who cares. I don't think Dino or anyone has a problem with it.

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speedhunters_dino

@Miguel Newera Was looking at theirs stuff at TAS actually, very nice!

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@speedhunters_dino  @Miguel Newera What a strange coincidence... and they sell tow straps too!

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206 comments on one post. love it or hate it this car has to be the most popular car in speedhunters history. LOL. i love the idea and what they are trying to accomplish. I wish them the best of luck and hopeful nothing goes wrong. Even though they are having fun crashing at 240 mph can really mess up your day cage or not it will f*cking hurt. Hope NISSAN  is paying attention to this rwd gtr (basically what it is)and build one too. Because this post generated alot of interest in such a vehicle. I like it without the rear bumper too. It looks raw. i like raw. Anyway excellent car and article. Does anyone have a clue how much is a VR (just the engine) cost in dollars? i m just curious

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will this aero kit be available to purchase in the US anytime soon?

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@varilight  I searched this whole page, and at no point did anyone mention a mazda.  The referance to my car was stating just that. that the car doesn't have the aero required to go that fast. perhaps this sexy 240 does.

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You guys sure seem to know what you're talking about.  I gotta be honest, I glazed over a bit reading all the comments.  Thread Hijack aside, This 380sx is bad-ass.  I hope it breaks 400.  I'd love to see my favourite chassis beat the big boys.  Lord knows she's light enough to have a shot.  A few years ago I remember reading something about it being top 5 in least aerodynamic drag, Prius one the top of the list.  (I assume it's for it's class. Cause I imagine lotus' and ferrari's, Bugatti's, etc....are a fair bit more aerodynamic)

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@BenS867 Actually, I did not know that.  Makes perfect sense though.  It's still my favorite ratio though. hahaha

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@AdamMcCorriston Read slower/more carefully and you'll see where.

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@varilight  @AdamMcCorriston I used the find command. couldn't find it. the only mazda referance was my post about yours, and yours.  Did you mean Mazworx?

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@AdamMcCorriston I hope it cracks 400 as well, it has a certain x factor that I can't really put my finger on. It's just down right bad ass. It's gritty looking and it's raw. I think the chances are slim, but my fingers will be crossed. Good luck guys!

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do you know the polly trans am? ;D that car break the 400 km/h, without any special aero-kit only with it's horsepower!...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CxKdsvUeWg

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omfg that must be a fukin beast! to drive. i wish i had ten mins with it. weird engine choice though for drifting

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@bigbenlee1992 it's being built for top speed, not drifting... he only mentions he'll probably drift it if they don't make it to nardo in time.

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@bigbenlee1992 it's being built for top speed, not drifting... he only mentions he'll probably drift it if they don't make it to nardo in time.

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BenjaminSaucier

TheShinigami speedhunters_dino BenjaminSaucier in retrospect I'd like to comment that I was a bit harsh, it's a shame the car still hasn't been put to the test but I look forward to one day seeing it do so. One thing I am a bit appreciative of this site teaching me is to be far more understanding of other peoples views. You can now return to your normal internetting.

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I'm getting ready to put the same kit on my s13 is a wheel spacer needed? With those wheels

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