Air suspension as a method of vehicular support has been around since pretty much forever, but the idea of performance air suspension is still a relatively new concept. Whilst performance orientated air systems have been readily available for the last five years or so, the idea itself goes back further again. Unfortunately, there’s still some misconceptions surrounding air. These misconceptions aren’t necessarily wrong, at least on the surface, but have probably been acquired through negative experiences with poor quality air ride setups. Essentially, these misconceptions and prejudices are based on old technology.
So let’s go back a bit in time, to around 15 years ago when the mini-trucking scene was enjoying its heyday in the United States. It was the mini-truckers that were amongst some of the first mainstream customers of air suspension systems on contemporary passenger vehicles.
“It was the dark ages of air,” Brian Vinson, Performance Engineering Manager at Air Lift Performance, tells me. “These guys just wanted to go low, with little consideration for performance. They would remove shock absorbers, sway bars, basically anything that got in the way of laying frame.”
This was also a time before sophisticated and highly intelligent management systems. Instead, the mini-truckers were running big and bulky components and would often have to cut and weld the body and chassis to get things to fit. The bags were filled and emptied with manual switches and 1/2-inch lines which provided no smoothness or grace between going from aired-up to aired-out.
There was no real engineering or consideration put into the installs – people just worked with what they had and tried their best to make it fit. These backyard installs are so far away from what’s on offer today, but this is where a lot of people got their first impressions of air suspension. Where these guys were hacking up their cars up to make things fit, anyone can now buy a dedicated air suspension setup off the shelf which has been specifically engineered and tested to fit their car.
By removing dampers, anti-roll bars and whatever else was in the way, and relying solely on airbags alone, performance didn’t even come into the equation. The ride was bouncy, it was under-sprung and damping was sometimes non-existent. For a lot of people, this was their first experience. Unfortunately, this experience is now highly outdated.
This isn’t an attack on the mini-trucking scene, far from it. These guys and girls were just working with what they had and low and slow was the order of the day. They were just ahead of the curve in some regards.
The New Beginning
Not too far from this point, around 2004-2005, a performance-orientated air suspension product, Praxis, which Brian was involved in, was introduced to the market. Whilst he remembers it as being quite good, he concedes that it was the right product but at the wrong time. The idea of performance air suspension was unheard of, and coming in at quite a high price point, it didn’t appeal to consumers.
However, it was well received by the motoring press at the time. Larry Webster of Car and Driver compared two BMW E46 M3s with identical specs and rubber – save for one car being equipped with Praxis air suspension. The air-equipped car pulled 0.02g more on the skidpad and lapped their test course 0.3s faster than the stock M3. It might not sound like much, but the course was just under 50 seconds per lap.
It was the subjective aspect of the ride that really impressed the writer. “The differences were dramatic. Body roll was about nil in the track mode, and there seemed to be less lag between the time the wheel was turned and the car responded. The stock M3 is pretty good in this regard, but in track mode, the Praxis car had the sharpness and precision of a race car. In short, the Praxis M3 felt more comfortable on the track.” This was 10 years ago, a figurative eternity when it comes to modern technology, and performance air suspension was already proving itself as a viable option to those who wanted versatility from their daily-driver track cars.
When Brian joined Air Lift in 2009, it was the beginning of the next stage of evolution for air suspension in a performance application. “I wanted to prove a point – that air could compete with a coil-over setup,” he says. Brian’s years of experience working with OEM manufacturers and his expertise in chassis dynamics would play a huge role in shaping the Air Lift Performance division. “When I joined Air Lift, they had all of the right ingredients, but were just short the recipe” he adds with a smile.
He’s also quick to praise others within the industry – those with a similar determination to show people the capabilities and potential of a good air suspension setup. He reserves the most praise for Brett Voekel, who he describes as a pioneer for bringing air to the muscle car crowd. Whilst technically competitors in the market, Brian clearly has a lot of respect for what Brett has done and continues to do. I get the impression that Brian is all about proving a point and furthering the potential of air suspension above all else.
He went on to speak about how the industry as a whole has moved the game onwards. Competition has been stiff, but the consumer is the ultimate winner at the end of the day. Never before have end users had such choice in off-the-shelf packages, which now feature better reliability, sophistication, ease of installation and performance across the board.
Brian believes one of the greatest advancements in air suspension technology was going from a bag and cup setup to a bag-over-strut assembly, which Air Lift had pioneered many years previous. What Brian and his team at Air Lift Performance did to prove its performance potential, was rapid prototype an air setup using their own bags combined with an aftermarket set of coil-overs that were lying around the workshop. It was clear from this moment that a high quality damper and bag-over-strut was the way forward.
But why air in the first place? Well, it all simply comes down to adjustability and versatility. It’s about having your cake and eating it. Anyone who has run a car low on a static setup will know the pain of speed bumps, multi-story car parks and steep driveways. The ability to rise above these obstacles and drive in comfort at whatever height you want, whilst retaining comfort and performance is hugely appealing. The progressive spring rate of a double-bellow air bag allows a huge amount of compliance too – certainly more than a traditional steel spring. Whilst an air system is certainly more complex than a coil-over system, it more than makes up for it with its adaptability. With rapid advancements in technology, things can only get better.
Let’s come back to present day. Just how viable is air suspension for a performance-orientated enthusiast? I reached out to Cody Miles, who has won four out of five rounds of the 2015 Redline Time Attack Street Class AWD in his 2007 Subaru Impreza STI, which runs on Air Lift Performance suspension with V2 management.
“I chose air suspension when this car was still my daily driver. I’m obsessed with low cars, but I also didn’t want to be scraping everywhere I go. The stress of being static-low almost isn’t worth it to me. Although this car was my daily at the time, I still didn’t like the idea of the car not performing to its fullest. The Air Lift Performance kit sold me on being able to do it all. So far I’ve put that to the test and have become partners with Air Lift Performance, which I couldn’t be happier about. I think the advantage of being on air suspension is that it is simply convenient. I love being able to hook up to the air chuck in my trunk in order to quickly get tire pressure dialled in, and inflate the air bags on the truck when towing the trailer. Also, even with my front splitter, I’m not scared to approach driveways and speed bumps knowing that I can always air-up to safely get over them.”
The only downside to running air in a competitive environment, is being the first to do so. This means that Cody has to learn and create his own setups for each track as he goes. It’s a learning process but one he’s clearly comfortable with. His worst result of the season so far is a second place finish at Streets of Willow.
Of course, I couldn’t talk to the Air Lift Performance team without mentioning that video before we finished our conversation.
In the video (above), air suspension comes out the clear victor in a test against a premium coil-over setup across three cars and multiple tests. “When we came up with the idea for this video, we just wanted to show that air was at least as comparable to a good coil-over. We were genuinely surprised at the result.” They stressed to me that the coil-over system used was high quality system, if it had been a budget coil-over, the gaps would have been consistently larger throughout the test. I had to ask them that if the test was performed again tomorrow, would air still come out on top and they were confident that it would, but in another four or five years that air would fare even better again.
In a relatively short amount of time, air suspension has come a long, long way. From the bouncy and performance-sacrificed backyard home builds, to dedicated performance-engineered setups designed and tested for specific vehicles which almost anyone can install. Coincidentally, we can thank those mini-truckers for being the early adopters of air suspension and creating the wow factor before it spread across to the hot rod and custom scenes, and then the VW movement.
Whatever your preconceptions and misgivings are about air, I think it’s about time that we research, experience and come to our own conclusions. I know I am.
Paddy McGrath
Instagram: pmcgphotos
Twitter: pmcgphotos
paddy@speedhunters.com
Additional Photography by Mike Garrett, Bryn Musselwhite & Air Lift Performance
OFFICIAL SPEEDHUNTERS SUPPLIERS
Still not sold.
All it does is add more parts and complexity to something that can be simple.
Marketing bullsht. Air suspension is for aesthetics not performance.
Marketing bullsht. Air suspension is for aesthetics not performance.
Call me old fashioned, but I still believe static suspension is the way to go. I like the simplicity and weight savings.
Call me old fashioned, but I still believe static suspension is the way to go. I like the simplicity and weight savings.
Nope. The ONLY way you'll see that on my ride is for a truck and for hauling, NOT for dragging
it on its belly.
Nope. The ONLY way you'll see that on my ride is for a truck and for hauling, NOT for dragging
it on its belly.
The real irony is that most of the people debating these two setups aren't good enough drivers to get the most out of either.
Interesting video!
However I would like to see these same tests being carried out by an independent tester. I mean, Air Lift isn't going to show us a video in which an air setup loses out to coilovers and what do they call high-end coilovers? I think if you put a pair of Intrax coilovers with ARC (about the same amount of $ as the air setup) up against them it might be a different story.
Still I must admit that I was surprised and amazed by how well those cars handled on the air setups. Bonus is of course that you can park the thing dumped on it's belly. That might not really be something that adds function, but it does look damn cool.
I dig air setups when done right. But cost has kept me away. For what I can buy in a setup I could've built a whole truck. Still these system are pricey even years later. I'm not sure why either considering the technology and what is available now. I used think hydrolics were expensive, which they are but air isn't far behind.
I feel a need to speak up about the video posted in comparison to air / coilover setup:
1) They never told us what kind of coil over was used. Simply saying a "premium" coil over doesn't tell me anything. What is premium? Ohlins. Penske. Sachs. Custom setup like FCM for the Miata.
2) What is the cost of a good air setup. From what I have found you are stepping into the $2000 - $2500 range which is the same cost as custom double adjustable coils from a company like 949 racing. We are talking double digressive valved shocks with whatever spring rate you want
3) No data was shown (camber, toe settings, etc) it would be extremely easy to adjust toe out 1/16 for example to give a huge benefit. Alignment is extremely important and unless the numbers were literally set exactly the same it's difficult to compare. Not showing this lowers credibility of the test results.
4) No one at the SCCA run offs or nationals for autocross or track racing EVEN IN THE UNLIMITED CLASSES is running air suspension. If air suspension was this blatantly superior we would see winning cars using it. I know several class champions from X prepared to A modified and no one is using air.
Due to the lack of data presented, the lack of information about the two setups and the lack of evidence in highly competitive fields where any kind of modification is up for grabs I can only conclude that air is inferior. No one will convince me otherwise until I see cars like WRC, unlimited class Pikes Peak Hill Climb cars and national champion SCCA racers using it.
I feel a need to speak up about the video posted in comparison to air / coilover setup:
1) They never told us what kind of coil over was used. Simply saying a "premium" coil over doesn't tell me anything. What is premium? Ohlins. Penske. Sachs. Custom setup like FCM for the Miata.
2) What is the cost of a good air setup. From what I have found you are stepping into the $2000 - $2500 range which is the same cost as custom double adjustable coils from a company like 949 racing. We are talking double digressive valved shocks with whatever spring rate you want
3) No data was shown (camber, toe settings, etc) it would be extremely easy to adjust toe out 1/16 for example to give a huge benefit. Alignment is extremely important and unless the numbers were literally set exactly the same it's difficult to compare. Not showing this lowers credibility of the test results.
4) No one at the SCCA run offs or nationals for autocross or track racing EVEN IN THE UNLIMITED CLASSES is running air suspension. If air suspension was this blatantly superior we would see winning cars using it. I know several class champions from X prepared to A modified and no one is using air.
Due to the lack of data presented, the lack of information about the two setups and the lack of evidence in highly competitive fields where any kind of modification is up for grabs I can only conclude that air is inferior. No one will convince me otherwise until I see cars like WRC, unlimited class Pikes Peak Hill Climb cars and national champion SCCA racers using it.
Jagdroach that can be said for 90% of people who modify their cars.
While I am in agreement with you on all points, I don't think we can conclude that air is inferior since I don't feel there is enough information to make an informed judgement. I take the use of air (and winning with it) by Cody Miles to indicate that there is in fact performance to be had in an air system, at least at the level of fast street cars.
I do agree that if air were "blatantly superior" then we would see it in Pikes Peak, WRC and F1 paddocks already; Mercedes started using air suspensions on their street cars 15 years ago and they compete in F1, so there is no question that F1 teams are aware of air suspension systems and I think we can safely conclude that at some point it was considered and dismissed. My gut feeling is that at that level an air suspension would be too heavy and bulky to provide any benefit.
However, as said in the video the debate is just beginning, and it seems that for people who want to have that low ride height without losing too much performance air may have more to offer than I originally gave credit for.
While I am in agreement with you on all points, I don't think we can conclude that air is inferior since I don't feel there is enough information to make an informed judgement. I take the use of air (and winning with it) by Cody Miles to indicate that there is in fact performance to be had in an air system, at least at the level of fast street cars.
I do agree that if air were "blatantly superior" then we would see it in Pikes Peak, WRC and F1 paddocks already; Mercedes started using air suspensions on their street cars 15 years ago and they compete in F1, so there is no question that F1 teams are aware of air suspension systems and I think we can safely conclude that at some point it was considered and dismissed. My gut feeling is that at that level an air suspension would be too heavy and bulky to provide any benefit.
However, as said in the video the debate is just beginning, and it seems that for people who want to have that low ride height without losing too much performance air may have more to offer than I originally gave credit for.
Excellent points. In the E46 case it would also have been interesting to see the stock suspension time for a base.
Also, how many ppl have been running bags and NOT winning. This would be a more telling statistic.
Mostly agree. If I need an extra .3sec, I prefer to do track days or training. Cheaper and its free to transfer to your next car!
Mostly agree. If I need an extra .3sec, I prefer to do track days or training. Cheaper and its free to transfer to your next car!
Ill be working with the guys at Air Lift to bag my car later on this year. I drive 55k miles a year, tow with it, track with it, and haul up to 400 lbs of stuff in the trunk at times. I was skeptical, but we all know a good damper is what makes a suspension work, not just the springs. Air bags are simply springs, and the dampers can still work in their traditional way with an airbag or a traditional spring - and they don't know the difference between the two. The rear question should be - " What spring rates are the airbags at at a certain ride height." Having asked that question to one of the guys from airlift, the answer was that they are neither progressive or linear. They have their own characteristics and their reaction differs from traditional springs in that the have variable spring rates not only via pressure, but also differ in low and high speed bumps. I'm going to give them a try as I have determined they are the best setup for my current needs.
Ill be working with the guys at Air Lift to bag my car later on this year. I drive 55k miles a year, tow with it, track with it, and haul up to 400 lbs of stuff in the trunk at times. I was skeptical, but we all know a good damper is what makes a suspension work, not just the springs. Air bags are simply springs, and the dampers can still work in their traditional way with an airbag or a traditional spring - and they don't know the difference between the two. The rear question should be - " What spring rates are the airbags at at a certain ride height." Having asked that question to one of the guys from airlift, the answer was that they are neither progressive or linear. They have their own characteristics and their reaction differs from traditional springs in that the have variable spring rates not only via pressure, but also differ in low and high speed bumps. I'm going to give them a try as I have determined they are the best setup for my current needs.
@Chris H Dude, you don't get the point! This suspension isn't for F1, WRC and Pikes Peak rockets. This suspension setup is mainly for multy purpose dailys. Don't think about racing! Think about nowadays youngsters (like me) who want to be epic cool with their insanely slammed VW's or BMW's and in the same time get over the speedpumps and in the weekends drive on the track. It isn't possible with coilovers. So... you get the point? It's fashoin thing you know...
Exactly!
Man, speed hunters is like an infomercial for Airlift now. Way to completely sell out, and destroy any credibility you once had. Anyone who has ever been to race track will tell you air suspension on the track is a joke, and not a single person seriously runs it. One random guy won in a grassroots event, with zero professionals and I am supposed to believe air in a viable option?
I hope they are paying you enough for your souls...you only get one of those.
@Mark P bien
dlaurence01 Valid points. Laurence. Perhaps if someone wants to accomplish both things air is the way to go, but I think when it comes strictly to performance we would have seen people making the shift if it was superior.
At the end of the day the car has been around for over 100 years now. Someone would have definitely tried it and proven it by now if it was worth while. When it comes to competition for simplicity, weight and over all effectiveness I think air is fighting an uphill battle.
rook56 Than you Rook, I definitely would have liked to see more data presented. I autocrossed in a very competitive region that produced several national champions for 3-4 years. In all the years I have been going to the track (around 10 now) I have never seen one car running air suspension.
@tuktuk I think you misunderstood my original point. When you want to know if something works you have to look to the highest forms of racing in their various configurations to see what the best in the world is using.
My point was simply to illustrate across multiple disciplines we do not see air in any of the biggest racing classes on the planet. From off road to F1 no one is using air.
Of course if you want to look cool and slam your car air is a great way to go, but for those who understand that there is beauty in functional pieces of engineering things are fixed depending on conditions. Being slammed is not the fastest way to navigate any road or race track and the people who understand that see beauty in engineering for a purpose, rather than to impress people who think in terms of black and white.
rook56 Very well said. I keep a kart for training purposes, but my Miata needs a turbo, better suspension, *voice drowns out as I name 20 more things* hahaha the nut behind the wheel is always the best modification!
nice history of air suspension! and i had that c&d issue where they compared to stock m3 and praxis m3, and tons of those trucking magazines with bagged trucks. man those were the days!
@Chris H Chris, though I totally agree on the points of the data on the test, i feel you are forgetting the many rule restrictions inherent in the top level motorsports. No way F1, Rally, WTCC or WEC would allow one competitor to have such a variable advantage over their rivals. Its in the realm of active aero and stuff. LeMans i could see an argument, but since the single track and event is a known variable, its easier and lighter to do a simpler suspension setup.
I'm also concerned/have questions about alignment. If I dial in my alignment perfect when the car is at 70% air, what happens when I go up to 80%? How about down to 30%? I do get that they are great at allowing the best of both worlds and that the performance has now come up to the point that the average or even enthusiast driver won't see any negatives, but until I see a team in multiple motorsports running air, it's still not superior in my eyes either.
@Chris H Chris, though I totally agree on the points of the data on the test, i feel you are forgetting the many rule restrictions inherent in the top level motorsports. No way F1, Rally, WTCC or WEC would allow one competitor to have such a variable advantage over their rivals. Its in the realm of active aero and stuff. LeMans i could see an argument, but since the single track and event is a known variable, its easier and lighter to do a simpler suspension setup.
I'm also concerned/have questions about alignment. If I dial in my alignment perfect when the car is at 70% air, what happens when I go up to 80%? How about down to 30%? I do get that they are great at allowing the best of both worlds and that the performance has now come up to the point that the average or even enthusiast driver won't see any negatives, but until I see a team in multiple motorsports running air, it's still not superior in my eyes either.
I'd have to say that mini-truckin was massively big 20-30 years ago. The debate then was a three way between normal, hydraulic, and air for suspension. Funny thing too SCC magazine rejected the praxis system for their WRX due to the high progressive spring rate.
@AustinCabot Hold on, their springs are "neither progressive or linear"? I may not be a suspension engineer, but aren't those the only two options when it comes to springs?I realize you aren't part of Air Lift, but are you able to elaborate on that apparently contradictory statement?
@AustinCabot Hold on, their springs are "neither progressive or linear"? I may not be a suspension engineer, but aren't those the only two options when it comes to springs?I realize you aren't part of Air Lift, but are you able to elaborate on that apparently contradictory statement?
I think the main thing about air suspension is cost... My coilovers were imported and all things consodered (price + shipping and taxes that i had to pay over the combined cost of those) cost a fraction of the cost of our local best type of air suspension. Perhaps when the infistry evolves and the market absorbs it in a way that prices drop, more people will have better opinions...
Air springs are the preferred spring for commercial vehicles, most large motor homes, and many luxury vehicles. You can get factory air ride on half ton Rams now. None of these would be classified as high performance vehicles. All are heavy and or designed to carry a lot of weight. Having driven both conventional spring and air spring commercial trucks, I'll take the air springs every time. In my opinion there is no comparison; In heavy duty commercial applications, air springs are the way to go.
Performance oriented air springs are a relatively new invention. I think it's reasonable to argue that air springs aren't to the point of development that coilovers are in a performance application. Was the video a great demonstration of what properly designed, installed, and configured air springs are capable of? Kinda. Maybe. I agree they left a lot of important information out and could have done much better making their argument. I think the take away is keep an eye on performance air springs. As they technology advances it's likely there will be more air springs in racing.
Speaking of which, no one mentioned the muscle car oriented autocross events. Ride Tech has been focusing on that type of application and I bet a number of cars could be found running their stuff at those events. Would be interesting data.
And yes Air Lift is a sponsor of Speed Hunters. Somebody has to pay the bills. Might not want to complain about them too much
D1RGE Super good counter point and I would say this to counter your counter point:
active suspension happened and was banned because it was superior. Show me a case where air suspension was used and banned due to its advantage over the field.
We are both in agreement: until it is used at the top levels it's not superior. Cheers to that!
aardvark42 Yes, we are a sponsor of SH because the audience is one that enjoys great looking and great performing cars! We are involved with both. And as a result, this group is exposed to a suspension type that has been through a major evolution in the last 10 years that may have been missed by some of you. It has given us a platform to discuss and educate people on this evolution while encouraging those with differing opinions to join in.
I mentioned this in another post, but until you have actually driven in a car with one of our systems, properly installed and set, then all of the discussion lacks that perspective, We have never said that our suspension is better than a race suspension. Air provides the option of adjustable heights which isn't ever needed in a race car! But the videos shown here were meant to illustrate that air CAN perform on a track and do so a pretty high level.
I love your mention of RideTech. Those boys have been COMPETING at Good guys and Optima events on air for years and winning. Sure its not F1, but nobody on this forum is headed to F1 with a contract this year are they?? Let's keep it real understanding we are talking about amateur motorsports with dual use street/track cars..
As for air springs in racing...
aardvark42 Yes, we are a sponsor of SH because the audience is one that enjoys great looking and great performing cars! We are involved with both. And as a result, this group is exposed to a suspension type that has been through a major evolution in the last 10 years that may have been missed by some of you. It has given us a platform to discuss and educate people on this evolution while encouraging those with differing opinions to join in.
I mentioned this in another post, but until you have actually driven in a car with one of our systems, properly installed and set, then all of the discussion lacks that perspective, We have never said that our suspension is better than a race suspension. Air provides the option of adjustable heights which isn't ever needed in a race car! But the videos shown here were meant to illustrate that air CAN perform on a track and do so a pretty high level.
I love your mention of RideTech. Those boys have been COMPETING at Good guys and Optima events on air for years and winning. Sure its not F1, but nobody on this forum is headed to F1 with a contract this year are they?? Let's keep it real understanding we are talking about amateur motorsports with dual use street/track cars..
As for air springs in racing...
aardvark42 Yes, we are a sponsor of SH because the audience is one that enjoys great looking and great performing cars! We are involved with both. And as a result, this group is exposed to a suspension type that has been through a major evolution in the last 10 years that may have been missed by some of you. It has given us a platform to discuss and educate people on this evolution while encouraging those with differing opinions to join in.
I mentioned this in another post, but until you have actually driven in a car with one of our systems, properly installed and set, then all of the discussion lacks that perspective, We have never said that our suspension is better than a race suspension. Air provides the option of adjustable heights which isn't ever needed in a race car! But the videos shown here were meant to illustrate that air CAN perform on a track and do so a pretty high level.
I love your mention of RideTech. Those boys have been COMPETING at Good guys and Optima events on air for years and winning. Sure its not F1, but nobody on this forum is headed to F1 with a contract this year are they?? Let's keep it real understanding we are talking about amateur motorsports with dual use street/track cars..
As for air springs in racing...
Hydrolastic SSC complained about the ride degrading over time. The Subi kit used 4 inverted monotube struts which rely on loose grease to lubricate the upper bronze bush where the damper moves in and out of the body. Stiction got bad on those after a while as gravity pulled the grease down from the bushing. One of the reasons why I am not a fan of inverted struts on a street car. Lesson learned.
@Mark P See above and other places where I state that if you have a pure race car, then by all means put a race system on there! But if you use your car on the street daily and make the occasional trip to the track for some fun, then you will not lose any performance when compared to a decent set of adjustable coil overs.
As for it being a joke on track....ever driven a car with our stuff on track? I didn't think so..
@Chris H Let me go in your order:
1. "Premium" means in the same price category. So you are correct. Double adjustable for 2 of the test cars and single on another. They are built in Europe, not some Chinese junk factory on ebay as you seem to be assuming.
2. 949 is a great company that makes Miata parts. Based on their size alone Miata dampers they are less expensive in anybody's product line. For our cars in the video, the cost of coil overs was in the $2500 range and we had to pay extra for camber plates!
3. Apparently, you didn't have the sound turned up when you were watching the video.We clearly stated that the alignment, ride heights and tire pressures were all the same settings between suspensions. And the damping was set to the manufactures specs, just like ours. Even the air and track temps were within 7 degrees of each other. Nobody has ever done a more complete comparison of air vs coils than we did. I encourage others to do it if they are so inclined.
4. SCCA has never tried to class air. I know because I approached them in 2004 about this. And they were so confused that it never happened and we went another direction. As for the national level autocross competitors, do you think any of those people have ever done a back to back test to determine is air is better or not? NO! Because the assumption is that is is inferior. Not data driven in the least.
Lastly, as I say to anyone skeptical of the performance potential. have you gone for a ride in a car with our suspension? I'm betting the answer is no. While you won't find it in WRC, WEC, SCCA, IMSA, DTM, etc...it works pretty damn well and sure as hell looks great when slammed to the ground. And for many people here, that's all the convincing they need.
@Chris H Let me go in your order:
1. "Premium" means in the same price category. So you are correct. Double adjustable for 2 of the test cars and single on another. They are built in Europe, not some Chinese junk factory on ebay as you seem to be assuming.
2. 949 is a great company that makes Miata parts. Based on their size alone Miata dampers they are less expensive in anybody's product line. For our cars in the video, the cost of coil overs was in the $2500 range and we had to pay extra for camber plates!
3. Apparently, you didn't have the sound turned up when you were watching the video.We clearly stated that the alignment, ride heights and tire pressures were all the same settings between suspensions. And the damping was set to the manufactures specs, just like ours. Even the air and track temps were within 7 degrees of each other. Nobody has ever done a more complete comparison of air vs coils than we did. I encourage others to do it if they are so inclined.
4. SCCA has never tried to class air. I know because I approached them in 2004 about this. And they were so confused that it never happened and we went another direction. As for the national level autocross competitors, do you think any of those people have ever done a back to back test to determine is air is better or not? NO! Because the assumption is that is is inferior. Not data driven in the least.
Lastly, as I say to anyone skeptical of the performance potential. have you gone for a ride in a car with our suspension? I'm betting the answer is no. While you won't find it in WRC, WEC, SCCA, IMSA, DTM, etc...it works pretty damn well and sure as hell looks great when slammed to the ground. And for many people here, that's all the convincing they need.
Dill Pickle With our modern components, the difference between coil overs and air as far as weight is pretty much a draw. Our struts are lighter than many coil overs so that savings can be used for the tank, compressor and manifold. And we have less unsprung weight as a result.
Cheers!
Dill Pickle With our modern components, the difference between coil overs and air as far as weight is pretty much a draw. Our struts are lighter than many coil overs so that savings can be used for the tank, compressor and manifold. And we have less unsprung weight as a result.
Cheers!
If I remember correctly, SCC (Dave Coleman specifically) complained not about the dampers, but about how the suspension worked at one ride height, and one ride height only, at least as far as damper and spring rates being matched. However, I believe he complained that the spring and damper rates stopped matching as the suspension went through it's travel, whether due to bumps, vehicle roll or driver adjustment of ride height. This I believe sparked a Technobabble column where he discussed the extremely progressive nature of air springs, something which I still wonder how Air Lift addressed.
If I remember correctly, SCC (Dave Coleman specifically) complained not about the dampers, but about how the suspension worked at one ride height, and one ride height only, at least as far as damper and spring rates being matched. However, I believe he complained that the spring and damper rates stopped matching as the suspension went through it's travel, whether due to bumps, vehicle roll or driver adjustment of ride height. This I believe sparked a Technobabble column where he discussed the extremely progressive nature of air springs, something which I still wonder how Air Lift addressed.
@AirLift_Brian Forgive me for being a buzzkill, but in order to make a data driven decision we (or at least I) need sufficient data, and at the time I feel it is lacking. Yes, the video provides some data points, but it makes me wonder about some others, namely the optimization of the coilovers being compared against. I noticed that for each car tested there seemed to be a notable lack of stiffness to the coilovers, at least compared to the air suspension, something coilover kits are generally designed to reduce. So it makes me wonder about the spring rates of the coilovers compared to the air, and if simply specifying a stiffer spring when ordering the coilover would eliminate that gap.
Also, I noticed you set the coilover dampers "to the manufactures specs"; isn't the point of an aftermarket setup that you can adjust it to suit the car, the track and the driver?
AirLift_Brian
to number 3 specifically:
but you are the company that is trying to sell the air bags, so dont you think it would be your responsibility to provide all of the data points (maybe in a peer reviewed scientifically repeatable experiment) to furthur convince those of us who require the extra data points in order to switch to air bags..
ill even tie in number one.. when i am making a decision and dropping 3 grand plus on a performance suspension, am i going to go with what has been tested and proven (coilovers) or am i going to go with something new and relativly untested? im going to go with the proven unless there is some serious test data that i could look at. the trick is to have all of your variables listed and controlled and the data given for them on the tests.
in the end, its pretty simple because some of us would considering switching if we could see the details behind your marketing material (and thats what it is) and turn it more into a scientific experiment (which is actually what drives racing)
AirLift_Brian
"But if you use your car on the street daily and make the occasional trip
to the track for some fun, then you will not lose any performance when
compared to a decent set of adjustable coil overs."
please market your product as such, in fact could you suggest a ratio of street to trak use that would be the ideal situation for your product?
Come on, this is the age of the internet, we need DATA!
"The only downside to running air in a competitive environment, is being the first to do so." <- we all know this article is part of your marketing no one is fooled here.
like i have said elsewhere, it is your job as the company to sell your product, if you want to make it easier on yourselves, properly frame the use of your product and then provide DATA to back up those claims. those claims should also be confirmable by other 3rd parties. if you do that, you might have a chance of convincing the most hardcore guys, and then sales will come from the people who listen to what THEY say, not a company rep.
this is 2016, most people who read this has had shit sold to them daily (if not hourly) for the majority of our lives. dont be foolish and think that we cant see a sales pitch for what it is.
AirLift_Brian "Apparently you didn't have the sound turned up." Really bruh?
I did, but I had my brained turned up even louder. Don't get personal.
Any time you present a test you need to show people data. I do not trust you or any other person trying to sell me something as an educated consumer. I went to school back east for engine building and learned from people who have been constructing race winning Indy and Nascar engines since the 60s. The #1 thing they hammered into our brains was: do not trust anyone's data unless the data is presented.
If you will not provide hard data, your test can not be taken seriously. There are way too many variables. How data is collected is just as important as why, when and where it collected. I'm open to new ways of doing things and seeing what's possible, but it's a cut throat industry. If you want people to get behind what you're doing you have to prove it beyond any shadow of a doubt.
It's very similar to Nurburgring times: anyone who thinks these manufacturers are showing up with "stock" cars is getting taken for a longer ride than the lap record.
AirLift_Brian "Apparently you didn't have the sound turned up." Really bruh?
I did, but I had my brained turned up even louder. Don't get personal.
Any time you present a test you need to show people data. I do not trust you or any other person trying to sell me something as an educated consumer. I went to school back east for engine building and learned from people who have been constructing race winning Indy and Nascar engines since the 60s. The #1 thing they hammered into our brains was: do not trust anyone's data unless the data is presented.
If you will not provide hard data, your test can not be taken seriously. There are way too many variables. How data is collected is just as important as why, when and where it collected. I'm open to new ways of doing things and seeing what's possible, but it's a cut throat industry. If you want people to get behind what you're doing you have to prove it beyond any shadow of a doubt.
It's very similar to Nurburgring times: anyone who thinks these manufacturers are showing up with "stock" cars is getting taken for a longer ride than the lap record.
dlaurence01 Not a buzzkill at all! You are correct in stating that the coil-overs could possibly have been optimized for the track conditions. And, conversely, so could the air suspension! We went head to head with out of the box settings because a LOT of people do not actually bother to adjust damping or know how to optimize it. There was probably a little left on the table for each combination.
As for spring rates on the coil overs, they were as received in the kits we purchased retail. And our spring pressures and ride heights were just as we have in the manual.... You probably noticed the Golf R the most because it came to us with no front swaybar. The roll difference you see is real. We have more roll stiffness. Of course, if the swaybar were in the system, the overall roll angle would be less. But it was the same situation for both suspensions.
You guys want more data. But nobody is listing the specifics they want. I'm here to answer questions, help the education process and debunk any myths. I'm happy to answer any questions I can.
dlaurence01 Not a buzzkill at all! You are correct in stating that the coil-overs could possibly have been optimized for the track conditions. And, conversely, so could the air suspension! We went head to head with out of the box settings because a LOT of people do not actually bother to adjust damping or know how to optimize it. There was probably a little left on the table for each combination.
As for spring rates on the coil overs, they were as received in the kits we purchased retail. And our spring pressures and ride heights were just as we have in the manual.... You probably noticed the Golf R the most because it came to us with no front swaybar. The roll difference you see is real. We have more roll stiffness. Of course, if the swaybar were in the system, the overall roll angle would be less. But it was the same situation for both suspensions.
You guys want more data. But nobody is listing the specifics they want. I'm here to answer questions, help the education process and debunk any myths. I'm happy to answer any questions I can.
dlaurence01 Not a buzzkill at all! You are correct in stating that the coil-overs could possibly have been optimized for the track conditions. And, conversely, so could the air suspension! We went head to head with out of the box settings because a LOT of people do not actually bother to adjust damping or know how to optimize it. There was probably a little left on the table for each combination.
As for spring rates on the coil overs, they were as received in the kits we purchased retail. And our spring pressures and ride heights were just as we have in the manual.... You probably noticed the Golf R the most because it came to us with no front swaybar. The roll difference you see is real. We have more roll stiffness. Of course, if the swaybar were in the system, the overall roll angle would be less. But it was the same situation for both suspensions.
You guys want more data. But nobody is listing the specifics they want. I'm here to answer questions, help the education process and debunk any myths. I'm happy to answer any questions I can.
(... You can't use air in F1...)
The thing I don't understand is... "Supercars" and even such acknowledged "drivers' cars" as the GT3 are available with lift systems. Surely that sort of direction would give you the ability to have a performance set up which can also accommodate the need to alter ride height(...?)
Reading between the lines here, it sounds like an air ride system has 90% of the performance of an equivalent-cost (i.e. expensive) coilover setup. Just with the ability to run the car very low and raise it at will.
Is that good enough for pro race teams, who chase every last %? And who have no need to raise cars for speed bumps and the like? No.
For the road, though, it makes sense for slammed cars, if you can afford it. If you can't, basic coilovers are going to be better, cheaper to fit and more reliable than a very cheap air system (if those even exist).
Also, it sounds like the air system's spring rates change with ride height, and that as dampers have fixed rates, the ride can only be optimal at a particular height. In that case, why not optimise it for fast-road height, leaving it non-optimal in "parked / slammed" and "multi-story car park" modes?
If all the suspension components are the same between the cars tested bar the actual springs and dampers, then the information I personally would want would be the spring rates for the coilovers vs the air, and the damping rates/curves for the same, if available.
However, what I am most interested in is in the air spring itself; given that an air spring is in principle highly progressive (halve the volume, double the pressure/spring rate), how does Air Lift address this to prevent being under- or over-sprung during the suspension travel, and how is the damping adjusted to match the spring rate/ride height? I realize some of this information might be proprietary, but I would like as much insight into the design of the system as can be publicly provided. I think the concept of air suspension is very interesting, and would like to know more about the system to see if this is something I would be interested in trying once I am able to afford it and I have a car you have a kit for. Thanks.
If all the suspension components are the same between the cars tested bar the actual springs and dampers, then the information I personally would want would be the spring rates for the coilovers vs the air, and the damping rates/curves for the same, if available.
However, what I am most interested in is in the air spring itself; given that an air spring is in principle highly progressive (halve the volume, double the pressure/spring rate), how does Air Lift address this to prevent being under- or over-sprung during the suspension travel, and how is the damping adjusted to match the spring rate/ride height? I realize some of this information might be proprietary, but I would like as much insight into the design of the system as can be publicly provided. I think the concept of air suspension is very interesting, and would like to know more about the system to see if this is something I would be interested in trying once I am able to afford it and I have a car you have a kit for. Thanks.
Air is a godsend anywhere with potholes. Or snow.
Like Detroit. Or Chicago. Or NYC. Or pretty much anywhere that's not Texas, California, or Florida.
I have Airlift on my e46 and do track it I would say the Airlift setup is better than the H&R setup I had before on the track...
would I fit air to a dedicated race car? well that depends on sponsorship
I have no doubt air springs can be made to perform in the end it is just a different type of spring to work with
on my car I feel they offer more grip because they soak up small bumps better than coils while keep the car flatter in the corners
they are also a fair bit lighter lighter per corner than coils so unsprung mass bonus...
overall very happy
not a racing driver just an idiot who likes to drive too fast
All the suspensions were set to the same specs that are specified by the manufacturer. You're point about adjusting the coilover would introduce another variable. The point of a comparison is to test one variable (an airbag versus a metal coil spring) and have the other parameters in the control group. As for your argument about making an adjustment to the coilover to achieve better results, the same could be said with the air setup, however like previously stated they used the manufacturer's specs to limit the variable to one thing. If you watched the video every parameter except for a coil spring and an airbag was kept in the control group and wasn't changed from test to test.
As for not seeing air in a professional race setting, that makes zero sense at what point does a racecar need to change it's ride height to go over a speed bump? Air is for someone who wants a car that can ride low and perform at that low height as good as a coilover setup but then can air up to go over a speed bump or get up a driveway. Porsche has a similar system that lifts the front of 911s a few inches.
wojcei20
wojcei20
wojcei20
wojcei20
More than just asking about what adjusting the setup would do, what I
am wondering most about is how AirLift (since they have been the main
focus when it comes to air suspension, on Speedhunters at least) have
prevented an air spring from being extremely progressive and altering
the handling characteristics of a vehicle based on ride height changes
the way my knowledge of physics and vehicle suspensions says it should.
And
you are right, a racecar generally does not have a need to adjust it's
ride height... except that doing so would be invaluable for teams
running lots of downforce, since they could increase the spring rate in
an air system to match the downforce being generated and therefore
keeping the attitude and ride height where the aerodynamicist intended
for maximum efficiency. And besides, this article is title "No
Compromise", and a major factor in the article is that air suspensions
have outperformed traditional coilovers in four out of four tests. Maybe
it's just me, but (rules aside) it seems that something that has that
clear an advantage should be everywhere. After all, taking four cars
with bias ply tires and comparing them back to back with a radial tire
would lead to similar results as these tests (ie radials win decisively)
and that is backed up in the real world where something like 99% or
more of all tires made are radials. So if there is such a performance
advantage, where is the real world adoption of the technology?
wojcei20
More than just asking about what adjusting the setup would do, what I
am wondering most about is how AirLift (since they have been the main
focus when it comes to air suspension, on Speedhunters at least) have
prevented an air spring from being extremely progressive and altering
the handling characteristics of a vehicle based on ride height changes
the way my knowledge of physics and vehicle suspensions says it should.
And
you are right, a racecar generally does not have a need to adjust it's
ride height... except that doing so would be invaluable for teams
running lots of downforce, since they could increase the spring rate in
an air system to match the downforce being generated and therefore
keeping the attitude and ride height where the aerodynamicist intended
for maximum efficiency. And besides, this article is title "No
Compromise", and a major factor in the article is that air suspensions
have outperformed traditional coilovers in four out of four tests. Maybe
it's just me, but (rules aside) it seems that something that has that
clear an advantage should be everywhere. After all, taking four cars
with bias ply tires and comparing them back to back with a radial tire
would lead to similar results as these tests (ie radials win decisively)
and that is backed up in the real world where something like 99% or
more of all tires made are radials. So if there is such a performance
advantage, where is the real world adoption of the technology?
modell3000 I've always wanted an Audi Allroad set to run a bit lower than stock, a little lower again for the highway and a few inches above stock for clearance when it's needed.
@Mark P Wow, hassling an article with a sponsor in it. You missed the boat, those guys were here ages ago. They've never hidden who sponsors are or why they go to factories etc. No one is making you click and read. Also given the option and an equivalent performing ride I'd use air, I drive highways and potholes.
Smiggins It adds some more complexity to let it perform an additional function. I know it's a promo article (was never a secret) but I get bored of the hecklers. Had to go side cut and gap some plugs to chill out after all the complaining (kidding
@Eyesforeward AirLift_Brian Did I miss something? When did it suddenly become 2016? Dang I missed Christmas!!!
@Chris H That completely misses the point and persistent stereotype about about air ride suspension continue, as is with nitrous oxide and water injection.
SCCA Club Racers tend to be cheap and only spend money on what they have to spend money on. Also with limited experience with air ride suspension means people can't risk finishing poorly during the season and possibly lose what little sponsorship they have.
Also that's hardly a gauge because 99% of Club Race cars are never driven on the street. Even the guy in this article took his WRX off the street surely to offset the increased weight of the air system to help him improve his average finishing position.
AIr Ride with performance is an option for the everyday enthusiast, it's about the same price as expensive, re-valved exotic coil-overs which will ride harsh most of the time and com with the inherent problems with a slammed car.
Cost is the main issue here. Non-adjustable coil-overs made in China for most popular platforms are less than $600, single adjustable are about $600 and double adjustable are less than $1,000. Name brands are about 50% more in each case, with say KW V3 double adjustable going for about $2K or half the cost of a air lift system.
I'd do it, why not? It would be easier to set the suspension up on a corner weights and get ideal performance.
The body roll Brian Smith was talking about could be solved with larger sway bars if that's really a problem.
I personally like the idea so I can match front wheel weights left to right to ensure equal traction for drag racing. Not to mention another setting for HPDE's and a slammed car with a little poke on the street.
Best of both worlds, it just has a price tag most people aren't willing to pay but have no problem shoving money into the engine with larger turbos and such
Sounds like priorities for some people just aren't into the suspension and brakes of a car when power is increased 30-40-50%...
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