It’s something that both excites and appals in equal amount – the engine swap. Now, even the most diehard fan will concede that it’s sort of okay once the new heart is sourced from within the same family i.e. 1UZ-FE into an AE86, S54 into E36, K20a into EK9 etc. But it’s usually outside these parameters that people’s tolerances are tested…
2JZ into a BMW M5? LS7 into a Skyline GT-R? F20c into a Ford Escort?
Some will take great joy in the idea of inter-species breeding, but for others it’s just morally wrong under any circumstance. So, what say you?
I used to be more on a hater, but after reading more about how the Scandinavians do their magic recently on SH, it twisted my perception a little.A 2J in a Lancia Delta? my first reaction: WTF NO. But after going through the whole post i realize how much engineering and passion has been put into making such swap happen, i am IMPRESSED.And then i realize, it is not about staying with the family or not. It is about how well you know what you are doing and how well and how much passion you put into executing it.Peace.
It all depends on what you want to do with the vehicle. It is very hard to forget the competitive presence that the LS series engine has in drifting and especially in Formula D. It is also hard to find a more reliable, less expensive, option than a LS based engine. For instance the Ford and BMW motors are stupid expensive, and the aftermarket support for the LS is huge. Then there is the fact that you can buy a Race LS-7 block that only weighs 80 lbs. a stock empty 4-AG block weighs the same 80 lbs. but is only 1.6 L not 7.0 L, even the UZ family of engines weigh very close to what the LS family engines weigh but they to are all less displacement. the fastest way to decrease an engines reliability it to boost it (mimicking a higher displacement). But for street use is an entirely different story and the sky is the limit. so in summary I guess I'd say for the Track go with the biggest LS you can find and Crowbar In, but for the Street, Keep it in the Family. Except for Jeeps, Land Cruisers and Hot Rods, we've been putting Chevy motors in them for decades.
It's all nuts and bolts. Only the marketing gets in the way. Let's appreciate the engineering and combine the best bits!
I have to vote like, I have a '43 Willy's Jeep. It has a Chevy 350 engine, Ford Toploader 4speed, International Scout transfercase, Ford/Dana 60 rear axle housing with Scout axle shafts, and Dodge truck Dana 44 front axle housing with Ford truck outer ends.
Just a little bit of mixing and matching there.
how does a 7m gte sound into a1979 ford cortina? because guess what. . . its in my garage just about running.
Very interesting! I think variety give more choice between characteristics you want to get , power, torque, weight and rpm.
But I don't know which engine I should swap in my old subaru leone with automatic FWD tranny? It's a good car but his engine (EA71) has very weak power for my wishes to race in auto slalom and time attacks on weekends. Usual way is to put a subaru EJ20-22 NA , but it is too common and boring. I just stuck in the middle with this question. Maybe something from honda or toyota? Or I should watch to something German, or even American (LS engine for example)?
i like the idea iv thought of the idea of putting a f20c into a e30, but i do have a limit with some of the swaps but i can always respect the hard work that went into the project :)
I'm working on an LSX swap into a Mustang so obviously I'm all for it. It's boring to do cookie-cutter stuff.
I'm all for cross polination, but I'm getting tired of seing a 2JZ in everything. I know it's a great engine but damn.
Although I would put in a track car any engine in any car, I cant be OK with changing everything just because is "cool". I would never be OK with an AE86 with 1UZ or a Skyline with LS7.
Maybe if they have the same basics, engine size or numbers of cylinders, it will be fine by me. The spirit of the car will be lost and you'll get a Frankestein car with a lot of issues.
I will put next year a 2.5L inline 6 from BMW in my Soarer track car. But I think these will be ok. My Soarer had originally a 2.5L inline 6.
I will remove all plastic covers for identity crisis and hopefully I can enjoy a cheaper engine to play with.
In my street car I will never touch my 1JZ but for the track car, money is bigger issue than identity. Plus, is not that different and I will think that is in the same family :)))
I feel like it's not a matter of lineage or history, but if it makes the car faster. I don't care if I end up with an RB26 in my chaser, because so long my car's faster, I'm satisfied. I'm not concerned whatsoever who made the engine, I'm concerned on how good the engine is. So, basically, with engine swaps, my opinion is that it's valuable most if it makes the car faster. Of course, I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I have radical fantasies with unconventional engine swaps - 4-rotor in an american muscle, Viper V10 in a Silvia, even if they don't have good grounding for making the car faster. Even still though, my opinion is that an engine swap is most justified if it makes the car faster.
I'd say it depends on the brand. I have a 72 TR6 and there isn't a motor Triumph made that I would bother putting in it.... but consider the options: 1JZ is cheap, 2JZ is great if you can fit it, 350 has been done, F20, F22 are new tech, SR20, any RB motor, etc and so on. On the other hand I'm doing a swap in my B2 series Audi and I'm insistent on using the 5cyl from the C3 series cars. Same goes for my A2 VWs, Diesel trans with a 2L 16V is the best combo, unless you want to do the work for the newer trans, but all within the family.
depends on the brand I say.
Being an owner of a RX8 I love the quirkiness and the rev happiness of the rotary. That being said, it would be perfect with a LSX in it, and someday that is my plan. To get 400 everyday horsepower, with the same or better gas mileage, and still have a very useable 4 door coupe that handles well, thats my recipe for perfect.
A lot of people seem to be missing the point of this poll, it ain't love or hate engine swaps, it's brand-changing they're asking.Personally, I'd say hate is too strong a word. If I were to swap, I'd like to keep it in the family, can't really explain why. It's just that completeness of an all one-brand car, but I wouldn't be averse to taking it outside the family given the right situation. I'd say I'm a 70/30 split
I didnt vote..
I believe that an engine swap is ok if your motor cannot deliver the performance needed in any level of tune.
A swap for another brand is ok if, the manufacturer of your car doesnt have a plant capable of the performance needed in any level of tune.
But thats just me
With my own car I would never dream of evening swapping out the motor for a different block .. all matching numbers for me! ...Until I saw all the gatebil Coverage! All for the love of trying something new now, funny how SH can give a fresh outlook on things!
Its my fucking car and I will stuff my fiero with any v12 i can afford!At the end of the day the owner is the one who will lived with the decision made >personally it depends on the car, if i have an rx8 ya id swap a v8 . if i have a rx7 ill keep it rotary and slap a 6rotor on it. a 240 nissan yup slap a v8, a sil80 put a rb30 in it. ^_^
I've always been a fan of making the most of what a chassis has to offer. It's about engineering a way out of a car's shortcomings and solving its challenges and difficulties to make the most out of what you have. I admire the engineering that goes into an engine swap, and I think there are some mind blowing cars being built, but I will always appreciate the acknowledgement and dedication to make the most out of what a chassis is, faults, shortcomings and all.
For me, simply replacing the heart of a chassis by swapping the motor to overcome it's shortcomings is taking the easy way out (I'm talking to you, V8-swapping RX-7 owners). Mind you, that's how hot-rodding began, take a big motor and stuff it into a small car, but any dolt with enough money can create whatever they want out of any chassis, taking out it's original personality and leaving behind a car that is no longer what the badge says it is.
Taking a Lambo motor and stuffing it into a Civic and converting it to RWD doesn't make it a fast Civic, it makes it a bastard that is equal parts Not Civic and Not Lambo and something else entirely. How about an AWD Scion TC with a V8? Is it still a TC? Hell no.
It goes both ways for me too. Simply keeping the engine and completely fabricating a chassis around it to look like a certain car doesn't make it that car. For example, taking an Evo motor and completely changing the drive train, custom-fabricating a cage and tube-frame chassis, customizing all the suspension points, suspension style, and replacing every single body part with a carbon fiber skin with two-dozen wings wrapped around it does not make it an Evo. At that point it's a completely bespoke car that only has a passing resemblance to the real thing - and doesn't f*cking belong in time attack.
Don't get me wrong, there are definitely some amazing builds being created, but for me the fun of hot rodding and modifying cars will always be about making the most out of what the car is, not changing its personality by starting with an engine swap.
A lot of the people that have posted comments about hating engine swapa are missing the fact that car manufacturers take engines from different cars all the time and swap them into different makes/models. People that modify there vehicles arent doing anything that hasnt been done before by even the biggest makes. Some of you need to open yours eyes amd appreciate imagination and good engineering.
its great if the state you live in doesnt make it illigal :( but never really wanted to do it, peps who rotorise non mazdas just do it because rotaries are awesome, and pistons are like a pair of tweed slacks :P
Unconventional engine swaps are evidence of a complete lack of knowledge about automobile history and lack of respect for automobile manufacturers. Where is the honor in swapping some random engine into a car that was meticulously engineered around a specific power plant? It is just a disgrace. All 67.46% of you monster energy drink sipping, flat brim hat wearing, stance loving hipsters need to read a book and put your phones down long enough to realize that these cars were built with passion and purpose.
It's not that simple for me, in some cases I love keeping it in the family, putting an XR6 motor in an escort is one of my fantasys, but then again there's an almost sci-fi tingle when you open the bonnet of a Hilux mini-truck and see polished up triple rotor, or peek inside a Datsun 1600 and see two cylinder heads and six shiny intake trumpets (yes, I also like sixes and N/A over v8s and turbos =P) and I think some peoples' criticisms that out-there engine swaps are done simply to be different are a little redundant: what's wrong with wanting to be different? If you can put a triple rotor in a Prius why the hell not? That's what car culture is all about, we're all striving for our own version of perfection, our own take on the automotive dream, and whether that's an EA civic with a DC2 Type R engine, or a Cadillac with a twin turbo Scania V8 diesel that's up to us =p
To be honest, I'm not a fan of inter-manufacturer engine swaps. I'm not going to say that people shouldn't do them, or say people's cars are crap because they have, but they just don't impress me as much.
It seems that sourcing an engine that is 'right' for the car just shows that extra degree of thought in a build. Yes, you could throw an LS into a chassis and instantly give it oodles of power, but that seems like the easiest option, rather than the best. Often, you just end up with another box around an LS. I'd rather someone goes above and beyond . That extra little spark that makes a car magic.
Moving on from the usual swaps (LS, RB26TT, 2JZ, RV8 etc), I'm also rather skeptical of the 'oddity builds'. Things like Toyota engines in BMWs (or vice versa). Maybe I'm just a prude, but it strikes me that you're just being different for difference's sake. Trying too hard to differentiate your car from the next, when you could focus on making something that has unmistakable quality to it that comes from making perfect choices.
But even then, it's not as simple as that. Some cross-manufacturer swaps I absolutely love. Things like the S54 Triumph TR6 that was on sale a while back, this Porsche 914 with a Subaru Boxer 4 (http://www.build-threads.com/build-threads/wrx-powered-tube-framed-porsche-914/) or this Jaguar V12 MGB GT (http://www.build-threads.com/build-threads/v12-mgb-gt/),
I suppose in each of these cases there isn't a suitable 'in-family' engine to use, so something that has some connection to the car has been chosen; the first two because of the similarity in configuration and the last because both engines are of the same nationality.
@jvjh666 I couldn't have said it any better myself.
@Brevin couldn't agree more. there are other good engines out there people!
@ressamp You mention a 4 rotor in a muscle car. Ever heard of the Aerovette? it looks like a third-gen Corvette.
In the late 1960s and early 1970s, GM spent a couple hundred million dollars licensing and developing its own version of the Wankel rotary, originally intended in two-rotor form for the Chevrolet Vega. It’s not clear whose idea it was, but to promote GM’s new engine, the big-block Chevrolet V-8 was removed from XP-882 and replaced with a four-rotor Wankel made from two of the units designed for the Vega. This became known as the “Four Rotor Car,” and Duntov persuaded Mitchell and his team to design yet another new body for it. That body is the car now known as the Aerovette.
You're bright, aren't you. Not every car was "meticulously engineered around a powerplant". Also, thanks for the absolutely retarded stereotype. Why the hell would you generalize people like that? "put your phones down"? "monster energy drink sipping?" Right there is a level of stupid that I never knew existed. Also, don't forget who currently owns the record for Pikes Peak. Sebastien Loeb. Guess who's one of his sponsors? Yeah, Red Bull. You may think you know a lot, but it doesn't matter, because the one thing you lack is respect.
Here's the thing - yes, there are some stupid engine swaps. An LS7 in an SA22C is stupid, I'll admit, but there are plenty other engine swaps that have also been "meticulously engineered around a powerplant". You also have to take in consideration that there are many people out there (and reputable tuning shops, for that matter) that put a lot of effort and time into meticulously engineering a build around an engine. Just because it isn't factory doesn't mean it's not well built.
So, you know what's a disgrace? You. Shut up, and appreciate the fact that what you think is a "random engine swap" can often be just as well "engineered" as the original powerplant into it's original receptor.
laughing at GT3randy... Nothing to do with respect and honour. hahah
Four stroke technology is redundant. Its dirty. It was developed in the 1800's. we had the ideas to graduate from it (for the better), yet corruption has held this technology firmly in place.
Why shouldn't I improve what I have with what's available? Your brand loyalty is something to laugh at, and it just stems from the ego. A modified car is not better than a factory original and vice versa. Its a car. It is worth 'x' amount because we say it is; another construct of culture. Your severely misguided to even suggest that there is honour and respect involved, and you are not superior if someone's concept of automotive tuning differs from your own. The company that you so staunchly defend is here to make money. I guess its good that you are passionate, as we all need a sense of belonging to something, but try to keep the insults to yourself, OK?
And a note to anyone who does not think i'm a car guy - I own, build and run an early factory two tone S13 (blue/gray). Its still factory original and I'm extremely happy with it. I maintain, fix and build it myself. However I'd jump at the chance to improve it; performance wise and in the case of environmental impact. I also own and am slowly building a Cortina! :) I'll never buy new - reuse, recycle and rebuild is the way... Therefore, Love - Variety is the Spice of Life!
So you are trying to tell everyone that putting in a far newer, efficient, reliable engine into a older vehicle is a terrible idea?260Z with a RB engine, more modern EFI tech and you have yourself a classic car with engine that i am positive Nissan would have used if they had it available.With regards to your FAD comment, Yeah you must be right., because no one was ever swapping engines with their Rods!!
There's no need to stereo type. I'm nothing like that, and I voted "love". Trust me, there's many of us here (me included) that have an appreciation for the engineering, and hard work it takes to create a fine automobile. Truth is, lot of swaps are built really well, and with a purpose. I'm almost positive, the original engineers would give praise to those people for their ability to adapt their design to something new and different.
@BiTurbo228 Don't forget the Elise/K20A and AE86/F20C. The K20A should be in the Lotus from factory, and the F20C is almost the spiritual successor to the 4A-G. People complain about the "Honda" stigma, forgetting that Honda motors are serious contenders.
@Matt John That's awesome, this is the first I've heard of it haha. Just googled it, you're right, it does look like a third gen. Shame they never put it in production, haha.
@Option86 Automobiles are designed with all of their working parts in mind. Countless hours were spent researching and developing the perfect design for each and every model. No matter how well "engineered" these swaps you speak of are, they did not have the resources or knowledge to modify the car to properly utilize the engine that has been randomly installed. If you ask me, this is every bit of a fad as body kits, under glow neon lights and euro tail lights. If you want to experiment with an engine and drivetrain, build your own car around it. At least people will look back on you with respect in 20 years, instead of laughing at you for butchering a car that could have been worth something.
@BiTurbo228 I love both of the swaps you mentioned because the motors are more or less updated versions of the engines they replace. That being said, there's a serious cool factor about something like a Datsun 510 with an SR in it (turbo or otherwise).
Facepalm. Don't ever modify a single thing on your car then. Not even the valve stems. Or the OEM-spec tires with another brand. Or even the OEM-spec tire pressures. Since you think car manufacturers are infallible and all the cars are "designed meticulously" around all the components, including the engine, you shouldn't ever be modifying any aspect of your cars. Which brings into question why you are even on a website like Speedhunters.
The truth is, large car manufacturers don't build their cars to perfection. They are built to a cost figure. I've worked for an OEM car manufacturer and know first hand how much pressure there is on engineers to REDUCE cost and COMPROMISE on designs. That includes what kind of engine goes into the car which may not always exploit the full chassis potential. Your views are so blindly dismissive and presumptuous that no one can take you seriously. Sure there is opportunity for mistakes and poor decisions in engine swaps, but I've seen many great, but controversial engine swaps from other manufacturers. Your blanket statements are incredulous and your stereotyping of people interested in engine swaps are childish and misinformed.
And speaking of "stance," please remove your head out of your ass. That's poor stance form, bro.
@Option86 just quietly, engine swaps have been around for about 80 years, i recently visited the Brooklands motor museum and there are a few guys turning in their graves with what you are saying, defiantly not a fad, hell, one of the most loved cars in history, the AC Cobra started as an engine swap. i find you short sightedness a little sad as i believe both sides of this argument can have their merits, putting a Ls motor in a 250GTO is stupid but taking an old shitter built with blandness in mind and pooping in something a little more enjoyable is the spice of life. how about next time you make a comment, try and not be so one sided, after all, the grass is always greener:)
Stop raging. I never even said anything was engineered with these swaps. I just said they were built well. Clearly they don't have the resources of a major manufacturer, so I get that they will never be as perfectly put together as the original but no one is trying to make something better. And no one is drawing comparisons except you. They're just doing something different.
Yes, because stereotyping and making blanket statements is the best way to present your opinion. Good one.