I’m going to start our StanceNation Odaiba coverage with three spotlights, and kicking them off is this BNR34 Skyline GT-R, aired out and sitting a few millimeters from the ground.
Cast your minds back to this event last year and you might recall a red san-yon that sparked off quite a conversation in the comments section.
That car was also riding on air, and one of the first I’d ever come across in Japan. Seeing someone have the courage to do whatever he pleased with his car was both daring and refreshing.
Did he start a trend? Maybe, because there were a few more of these cars on air at this year’s StanceNation event, but this one stood out the most.
From a visual standpoint, the way this thing sat on its Work Meister S1 wheels was pretty amazing. When you squat down and take pictures of modified cars, the lower they sit the more visual impact they generate, and this 34 just seemed to hover. Its aggressive stance was stopping pretty much every person that walked past it.
I had a nice, long look at the way the rear fenders were rolled, as I’m about to do that to Project GT-R to clean things up.
The Z-tune Nismo look was highlighted with something I had never seen anyone do before: integrating R35 fender vents.
Does it work? It certainly looks different.
The few times I passed by the car the hood was down, so there’s no way of knowing what’s going on under there. You can easily see the stock intercooler through the bumper’s air dam though, so it’s probably only lightly tuned at this point.
The interior has been kept simple; just an aftermarket shift knob, Nismo white-faced gauge cluster, and a double-DIN navigation unit is all I could see.
The real party piece is the massive air canister lodged in between the seats. It’s a curious location to mount the air tank for the air suspension system, but if you want to make a point I guess you might as well go the whole way.
I’m a massive fan of the shiny bronze anodising on the lips of these Meisters; it’s such a nice contrast to the satin finish of the spokes.
Aftermarket LED taillights complete the conversion, but the real question is, what do you think of it all?
Dino Dalle Carbonare
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dino@speedhunters.com
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The R35 touch was really done well!!!
Looks like it handles like horse shit.
air suspension setups such as this one allow the car to be raised to a more drivable-and better handling-height. you're silly
If raising a car made it handle better my neighbors monster truck would win all F1 - if it made it more drivable GT's would be characterized by 14 inches of ground clearance.
Also "air setups like this one"? the car is slammed and the only thing you can see is a silver tank that may or may not even be connected to anything. Air setups do nothing for sure - if its a good unit it will raise the car exactly to a preset height where the alignments are hopefully set, however it seems obvious that the car doesn't get raised very high during driving based on the camber I can see.
Air systems usually handle like garbage, especially low ride heights, especially with stretched tires - so marco not polo was spot on.
That monster truck remark had to be hyperbolic. I refuse to believe you thought he was saying the higher a car is off the ground the better it handles. Why even say something so ridiculous in a effort to make a point?
And therein lies the average enthusiast in the automotive community today: a fundamental lack of understanding when it comes to basic vehicle dynamics. Pretty laughable.
Great point on the camber curves. Another fundamental concept that flew way over cynical's head and probably most of the people who think these systems are good.
Look at the tire compound and the fitment on the rim. Total shit. This car is garbage.
on the contrary, i would say that my post flew over both your marco heads. if it looks like it handles like horse shit in these pictures because it is too low, then are you arguing that it would not handle better when it is raised from that sliggity slammed height? That's just common sense at that point. In fact, I'd even bet it's bordering on undriveable as-seen, so yes, raising it to a more streetable (albeit japanese-streetable) ride height would definitely improve handling exponentially.
And is the car garbage because it's lowered on air? Is it garbage because it is most likely built by the owner to enjoy driving it around town, and not on a race track? Nothing has flown over my head... I am willing to bet i've been building cars of all sorts and for all different purposes for longer than most people on this site have been alive (yes, even those of driving age)...but I have nothing to prove, because everyone here apparently knows more than every other person anyways.
Lets differentiate a couple of things here:
A lower or higher ride height doesn't tell you anything about the ride. Lowering ride height only allows for a lower centre of gravity.
But Lowering it with bags ( or springs for that matter) will result in de same problem: It lowers the centre of gravity, but it lowers the roll centre more. Which will result in more roll. Thats just a matter of physics....
Race cars a lowered by design, which result in a low ride height, and a fairly high roll centre. That way roll is kept to a minimum. It's by altering the geometry of the suspension itself, not by lowering the suspension height.
So to answer your question: It's not garbage because it is lowered on air. It's garbage because it lowered the wrong way via the spring mechanism. Could be any spring for that matter, be it a coilspring, leafspring, bag, torsion bar.
As for the car: tires are not fitted properly. It will fit, but this is an accident waiting to happen. To big of a scrub radius with the high wheel ofset, and an improper suspension geometry. So no, not for me....
my original post was a flippant response to the asinine comment that amounted to a blanket statement of "handles like horse shit." So I pointed out the obvious: that of course it handles like horse shit (or perhaps, doesn't even drive at all) as it sits in the pictures, and that the air suspension would raise the car and allow it to "handle" better. I'm not even sure why anyone is trying to argue that FACT.
anyways, as mentioned several times, we don't know all the nitty gritty details of this particular car, so let's couple some observation skills with deductive reasoning; something that perhaps several marcos neglected to do. things to note off the bat: wheel/tire overall diameter in relation to overall ride height, axle centerline in relation to body swage line (we can't go by the fenderwell opening on this car, of course), fenderwell opening in relation to swage line and door handle, current camber at suspension height, wheel offset given suspension height and amount of camber... all these would lead one to deduce that the subframes on this car have been moved upwards. (which would, essentially, negate to a *certain degree* a lot of the armchair concerns people have noted)
Now if we get even more esoteric with the observations, we can see that 1) the rear taillight surrounds are slightly bulged, and the rocker panel-to-rear qtr panel meet flush, 2) the rear fenderwell openings do appear to be radiused (not a far-fetched concept considering the wholly new front fenders), and 3) the car is blue, rides on air suspension, has work meister wheels with dark centers and bronze lips, and although it is insanely-modified on the exterior, has an almost OEM appearance....this ALL would lead one to assume this car was built by Garage Attack. if so, then there is a very good chance this car was totally stripped to the bone, chassis and cradles were highly modified, and the car has all carbon bodywork (as in, the only remaining metal exerior parts might be the A- and C-pillars....and so it was also most likely built to cruise and drag race. hopefully Dino can confirm whether my assumptions are (at least partially) correct?
so it's fair to say I probably had put a lot more thought into this car than the marco(s), and these were all things I saw within the first few mins of seeing the pictures the first time around... I just didn't want to have to spend more than a few mins chronicling all that, as that just takes away from my porn viewing time. Because I know nothing about cars, and everything about porn
ah crap on me.. I meant to say garage active, not garage attack.
And I want to note that I very well could still be totally wrong about everything I said, but again, until someone like Dino can confirm the details on this car, we're all really just speculating on what it's got, and how it's got it...
Thank you for helping to word that more clearly Kevski. We go back and forth on some topics, but in the last week I have tried to learn more engineering after reading your comments.
Oddly enough I just touched on roll centers and geometry last night. Great statements. The car isn't setup wrong because it is low, but rather because of the tires and the bags upsetting the mechanical grip / geometry.
Thanks man!
Ehr, not totally: Bags can be set up to ride as good as springs. But in most cases they never are (and springs aren't either. Springs should never be used as a means for lowering, and neither should bags: Thats what suspension pickup points, the hubs and the balljoints are for. Its the only way to set it up correctly, other then moving the subframe up in the car if it has a subframe to begin with.
The only reason coilovers should be lowered is because of balancing corners weights or if you are prototyping/using suspensions with different pickup points. The rest is al marketing BS.
Grip in itself should be fine, since it has tyres. Accidents waiting to happen are just because of no beadlock, and way to overstretched tyres for any amount of safe driving. The tyre will just rip itself loose from the rim and fold over loosing it pressure. Why you would risk that is beyond me....
So in itself bags or the tyres aren't to fault, but actually the way they are used/fitted.
No shit Sherlock.
i'm gonna assume you didn't really care to read through my way-too-long diatribe of a post...but that was my ultimate conclusion: that there is a high possibility that this particular car has had it's suspension cradles/subframes raised into the chassis...potentially without changing any control arm mounting points, etc. And I provided some points which might support that, though it's all speculative really. There's also the high possibility that all they did was just run super short stroke coilovers with bags in lieu of coil springs, and then used adj upper links/arms to add in copious amounts of positive camber, all while making no other supplementary susp changes...and if that is the case, I would be a little bit disappointed that they'd just half-ass things like that
Man, you must be fun at parties.
The last party I went to had the managing director to a Formula 1 team and the guy who builds McLaren F1 engines. It was actually a very fun party where we talked about stories from Le Mans and Ayrton Senna that will likely never be shared outside the room.
Too bad you weren't invited.
McLaren doesn't build f1 engines, but Honda and Renault do. Imaginary friends do host the best parties though, I'm glad you had fun.
Wow, I had to laugh at this comment. I was actually quite enjoying the lively debate you were all having until I read this. Surely you can step back from this comment and realize how desperate to sound important it comes across.
Keep up the fun debates, lose the cringy and more than likely embellished (and that is being generous) brags.
That last comment was in reference to this:
WOWOW the last party I attended had several multi-billion dollar tech CEOs and execs, as well as an amazing drag queen. These people aren't responsible for car-related tech (well, other than autonomous cars)...they're responsible for giving us the tech that allows us to bitch at each other on this thing called the internet. Does that make me better than you? I wouldn't say so...
Were you the drag queen? - None of what you are using write now to impose your will on none came from silicone valley including autonomous cars, all of that was funded by tax payer money through DARPA et al, commercializing someone else's work doesnt make you anything more than a good businessman.
Everything obvious in the pictures provided shows a crappy handling car - only your hopes and dreams say otherwise - Also it's literally impossible currently to design an air system that matches let alone outperforms a coil spring system.
All a good air system could do is provide dampening for the springs that do the real work - Unfortunately cars don't develop that quickly but if you look at something that does like mountain bikes you will see a return to coil springs from air in the rear - the is simply down to the fact that springs provide a more consistent and progressive movement - air for instance dramatically changes are temp and altitude - Race cars simply generate too much heat to use air, which is why magneto dampeners use metal particles suspended in oil and not air on the cutting edge.
No it really isn't impossible to design a bag design that just as good as a coilspring. Is it on the market: F*** NO! But the same rules apply to suspension. It has to be made to work.
What I will tell you is that its way more difficult to make them work in de same way a coilspring works: bags are reliant on air pressure for spring stifness for one. But that same air also raises suspension. So you have to start with the springrate of the bag, and have everything else designed around it. So in all: The exact opposite way it is done now in the aftermarket.
Then theres the problem of liniar spring rate: It is manageble, but a lot more difficult to work with. In racing you only use liniar springs for predictability/dependability. A liniar spring has the same springrate troughout its travel. A bag spring rate that when travelling in gets higher and higher and when traveling out gets softer in softer. It can be made to work, but is a lot more difficult.
And then there is weight and size: They are heavier then aluminum or even regular steel shocks and there needs to be room for the shocks beside them.
On the plus side: A bag has the potential (although not cheap), for it to work as an anti-roll bar and ride height adjuster during high speed travel, if you would measure G-forces and airflow. It has been done, but only in F1 as far as I'm aware. There is a video somewhere about that? Although its banned for years in F1. I believe it was a Lotus, but I could be way of? Its somewhere from the 80's or early 90's I believe?
no, I was not the drag queen, but are you trying to imply that I was, as a form of a put-down on me? This does show that you are quite an immature person...and the only thing you, and the other you (and to an extent, even kevski) are doing is reciting the same "coil springs perform better than air suspension" mantra over and over. No one here EVER argued against that if you opened your eyes.
btw, i'm not sure what your tangent about autonomous cars has to do with anything. I had only brought it up originally to point out how digressive, and downright detestable your previous comment to lachlan was. Oh, you're BIG man because you wanted to show off that you talked to F1 bigwigs (but did you, really?). Obviously you care about who people associate with at a party and all that status, so I threw that in there, and you took the bait... And back to your autonomous car rant, are you saying you're better than everyone because you read that it was borne of darpa research? Why did you even bring any of that up?? You do know who spearheaded all of the commercialized autonomous cars work these past few years, right? hint: they're the same folks.
and btw2, I noticed you brushed off all the technical observations I threw out there to show why one could suppose that this car's subframes were lifted in the chassis. It's not a far-fetched concept, and one the Japanese aren't afraid to do on more complex car builds....especially since they're so obsessed with being sliggity slammed. And ultimately, regardless of how it's done, it's obvious that that desire to go way low was a primary motivator for the owner of this R34.
I've read it, but a lot are assumptions on your part. Subframe being lowered for one. You cant possible know that. Could it be done? Yes. But there could also be a moped engine under the hood. We don't know....
Read the other comments I made? I didn't say that. Thats another assumption you made. A bag preform just as wel as long as you design the other parts around the bag. Yes I have a preference over coil springs: Less weight, liniar spring rate, takes less room, no extra controllers and compressors, and less to go wrong with it. It's as simple as that.
And yes the design goal of this R34 is definitely to be slammed. No one in their right mind would fit tyres like that otherwise? But lets go into detail what will happen if you mave the subframe up inside the car, with everything attached to it: Centre of gravity is lowered, the rest stays the same. But why would you, if you can accomplish the same with a lot less work and a lot less clearancing issues. And make adjustments to the suspension geometry while your at it? You wouldn't unless you don't know any better? Because moving a subframe up is just old tech. There are way more efficient designs to accomplish the same outcome, but with more beneficial side effects.
And what assumption can we take of of that? That the one who's doing that has read something somewhere and is just reciting what he's read? That the person doens't truly know vehicle dynamics? I'll let the rest be the judge on that. And I'll leave it at that....
I for one am happy somone finally commented about the differences between the spring and an air bladder beyond rawr bags are bad.
Good on ya.
Your forgetting one thing: That applies to a closed circuit system. A bag system isn't closed. Its open. There just needs to be a pressure sensor in each and every bag. It does make the system more complicated though, as the system needs to self regulate the pressure in the bags. And the pump needs to be on all the time, because of the airflow demand.
Could you elaborate on the sensor point? Currently modern systems monitor the pressure in each bag.
Some use pressure and height in combination (Airlift 3h for example) to deal with things like cross loads.
If I'm reading right based on your second point you mean active monitoring? Again I think height based systems are active and readjust ever x seconds. But I can do some confirming there.
Since I cant edit I'll write this after reading the manual: It gets worse: Its ride height control or pressure control. Not both. The system cant handle that. The system also cant handle front to back compensation and left to right compensation. It doens't have a linear rate of suspension travel, since it'll keep it at a steady pressure, not the set pressure you really want. And the max suspension rate is 50psi on half way up. But you can't set it up to have 10kg/mm like you could do with a normal coil spring. So all in al, the system isn't nearly there where it needs to be on the aftermarket side of things. At least not with Airlift.
Kevski you're thorough. I like that.
You're right in that I don't believe the system is as 'active' as it could (or maybe needs to be?) for an outright performance solution. I've been on autopilot V2 in my car and can say for certain that the valves have never opened or close without my intervention. I think it's meant to hit +/- 3 psi of a preset. My bags never seem to vary that much based on my driving and conditions.
In terms of cost your bang on if ride height for aesthetics doesn't factor into your equation then there's no real need for air. And lift systems on top of normal coilovers can handle those who need more height for a limited period of time.
To your point about someone who knows what they're doing. Airlift employs former race team engineers (source I've met them at the factory) and they do their best to pair the bags and coils with the dampers for the car in question. They had my car for testing for 3 weeks. Vs other companies that slam a generic bag between application specific upper and lower mounts. However knowing their market these systems are likely not as performance minded out of the box as a high end coil over would be. However the air lift performance line is world's above their previous slam series in terms of performance capability.
This all changes if you bake your own.
I still feel that the performance line vs a lot of the coil overs used today (by those screaming static for life especially) would net about even. By that I mean your BC's, kws, fortune auto etc. But really we need someone impartial to set up a a test.
Anyway I do enjoy the fact that you're willing to have this conversation in a civil manner. And you've brought up plenty of valid points that I'm sure are being factored into future air systems.
Lets say could be: Needs to be is "no", bacause coilover don't have the feature either. Would be nice though!
I always laugh when people refer to lift kits. Those people are the same as the bags in a way. They do it for the looks mostly. I'm a firm believer of "doing it right, or don't do it at all". I run normal suspension on all my cars, but make a difference in to where you drive them: Street, track, or offroad. Whats it's primary purpose: Track? Then street driving will be difficult and offroad will be impossible. Street? Then track driving will be possible (and in all honesty still better then most track cars because of the time i take to develop a package), and offroad will be manageble, but thats about it. offroad? Will just plain and sumple suck at the track, street driving is possible, but don't expect a well handling car. It's allways a compromise. And one you should live with. If a car scrapes on the street, it's just to low. People need to start thinking about the driving part of a car way more often.
I'm not saying that airlift aren't good engineers in there own right, because they are. The same goes for companies like KW or BC. But what I meant by on a car to car basis is that you need to look at each car specificly. Not on a model to model basis, or on a brand to brand basis. Thats not the fault of those companies per sé, because you just cant account for everything when producing parts.
So lets say you have the best possible kit, but its installed in the wrong way. What good would it do you? Every car is as good as the worst part. I know most of the details because I'm an engineer, but what about the averige user? Or the averige installer/mechanic? Couple that to wrong advertising to entice more buyers, and you set up for desaster.
Static for life: Don't even get me started.... I know what you mean. And your absolutely right. I can honestly say that a cheap coilover from china installed by a professional with a good suspension geometry is way better then say a coilover from KW to slam the car. I've done a lot back to back testing for a local tuning mag back in the day testing coilovers on a otherwise stock car. The outcome: When lowered to max performance dropped to below factory times on a course. When set up propperly (in this case set up to factory ride height, but with firmer suspension and shocks) equalled 2 or 3 seconds a lap. I'm not entirely sure a bag set op at factory ride height would do the same, but it wil still be quicker then stock and won't be more then a second of. Most likely even somewhere on the 2 seconds mark.
Luckaly I'm not all that reliant on manufacturers. I drive cars where there is some aftermarket, but thats way to basic for my tastes. So I usually make my own. I can calculate fairly close to optimal, mix and match parts I need and make them. From there on its a matter of fine tuning.
And thats the real tip I can give people. Educate yourself on the subject, even though you cant install the parts yourself. Make sure which parts do what, and which other parts they effect on a car. And don't take the manufacturers words, good reputation, marketing, etc. for granted. And yes that means long nights learning, educating, no sleep, confusion, etc. But in the end its worth it.
And thanks for the compliment. Thats the way a conversation should be had.
And as for your last remark: Probably a way farther in the future then you think. It has to be economically viable. My guess that it will at least be 10 years or more before such a system is actually market ready, and will be expensive to say the least. That is if there is a market for it at all. Which I kind of doubt? People first have to understand what they are being and looking for before the aftermarket reacts to it....
Dropping gems on em.
Personally I've spent a lot of time reading about air because it's always interested me (hydraulics too, to a slightly lesser degree). Which is how my interest in the performance side grew.
Often people misconstrew my thoughts as saying air is better, when they're more in the realm of where are the gaps.
As you said it's hard to build an all rounder without some degree of compromise. Breaking it down to each individual vehicle (not model) further makes thing interesting.
Have you ever explored/researched ride techs offerings?
Air, hydraulics: All the same: Both are fluids. And they act the same to. For me it would be racing at the age of 6 (karting), but not having the budget to continue. So in a way i'm an autodidact. I have a masters of engineering (and learned very little during that education, because I was allready at that level) and worked in the highest levels of motorsports. So in a way i'm on the far end of the spectrum. That being said: Everybody can learn. It's just the question what you are willing to give up to achieve that.
What I find most annoying out of every comment, is stuff that gets torn out of proportion, so I can relate. There is nothing more dangerous then thinking you understand what your doing after reading something for five minutes. The stuff most people on the internet call knowledge
In a way it doesn't make much difference whichever you choose, as long as its done right. And its the latter part which hardly never is.
Thats the thing that is the real fault these days: People expecting 1 car can do anything. And what happens is a "jack of all trades, master of none". I'd rather have a car that is right at something, and totally wrong for something else. Its mostly the people who don't ejucate themselves that nag the most.
As for Ride Tech: No I haven't. But as far as air ride goes: It should make much difference to what supplier you are using, as long as the bags hold up to the job. The same goes for coilovers. one brand isn't neccesarily better then the other in a construction matter, but some manufacturers just get a better package. With the bags the only real difference is the shocks used, since air is actually tunable. And the shock is as well, if you know what your doing (bound and rebound, even though it has no ajuster). It does mean cutting shocks open so you can change the stuff inside. Springs are the same, but are way easier to change on a coilspring then ajusting any shock that is non ajustable.
All in all: The system other then build quality and weight should not make much difference. It's more or less actually the damper. and how much psi you need to pump the bags to about 50%.
The 3H and 3P systems do have pressure sensors, but thats the higher end of the spectrum. What I'm mostly interested interested but couldn't find in the specs:
1. Is the preset load continuesly variable: In other words: during suspension travel, does it keep the pressure level al the time? My guess is no? Because you would have to carry a way larger compressor and tank to keep up. Pressure rises in a bag when compressed: and is lowered when decompressing. What you would ideally want is a bag that has the same pressure troughout the motion of suspension travel, like a liniar coil spring. In real time I might ad, because it defeats it own purpose if it does not. Thats the only way to simulate linair spring compression and decompression in the bag. Since that can change multiple times per second I highly doubt that?
2. Is there a cross interface involved? It does say it has a accelerometer, coupled with pressure and height means the system is in theory ready to act like active suspension, making outside springs firmer and the diagonal spring softer at the same time. My guess is that the software isn't ready to do just that, and the hardware isn't capable of keeping up? What I think the accelerometer is actually for is detecting acceleration and deceleration, which is quite a bit simpler to control?
3. Total cost of the system: 3H is a $2000,-- addon. Lets say its for a 1992 porsche, since they sell the performance monotube shock system with that set: thats $1000,-- and $1000,-- for front and back. Total amount is by then $4000,-- . The shocks are 30 level ajustable, but only rebound, since they don't specify what the ajustibity is? But correct me if i'm wrong? If thats the case you can only hope for the best, but expect a damper thats not addequate for what you need. Whats not included in the price is the instal itself. I have absolutely no idea what they would qoute you for something like that, as I can do all my installs myself?
4. Other then that you still need to have someone who really knows what he's doing for setting it up correctly at the right ride height with the bag half inflated on the correct pressure level. An engineer with proper knowledge of suspension setup and design can help you with that, but unless you know somebody who is an engineer that'll also cost money. And we are not talking about the wheel allignment centre down the road, because most of them can hardly read the monitor. And by then you'll most likely find out the bags supplied arent the ones you truly need for your application, since pressure will have to calculated beforehand, or you'll have to buy new bags the have the required amount of pressure with the bag half inflated.
5. Racing them: That will be the biggest issue, since they are not allowed in most racing classes by default, since they are a form of active suspension.
In other words; it can be done, but it'll cost twice as much money compaired to coilovers and will take x amount as long to install and setup correctly. yeah its cool to see them on the ground when parked, but at the end of the day they're cars, which are ment to be driven. And the things I haven't added in pricing in anything else is the rest of the suspension components. because changing one thing is changing everything....
What bags are really for: Load correction. Trucks, Pickups, Lorries, Busses, that type of vehicles.
Look at all these idiots getting schooled. I love it.
You should take note at how Keveski articulates his opinion.
Cut me a check. Time is money
Seeing something like this is really refreshing, the fenders look right at home as well.
LOVE IT.
the fender vents work for me lol
A very well done modified car... only to be handicapped by the negative-camber for hard park....
That wouldn't worry me too much, as the camber will fall back into line when it's aired up. The stretch on the tyres is the only thing that nags at me, but that's easily remedied.
"That wouldn't worry me too much."
Wave to the mildly built EG that is blowing your doors off with a 16 year old behind the wheel on proper suspension and the right tires. He means no harm.
And neither would your lap times
Why is it assumed all cars are built for circuit work?
I've been modifying cars for 20 years and have only every built one for track work, there are many valid reasons to build a car and artistic expression is one of them.
You've fairly strong opinions on this, Marco. What do you drive yourself?
Funny how if I said a mclaren f1 and it was true you’d instantly think of me as more credible.
“The things you own end up owning you “
Frankly, it doesn't matter what you drive as long you enjoy it. I do gauge people here based on the contributions they make to the Speedhunters community. You currently add absolutely nothing and your behaviour is immature at best.
If you want to be 'credible' then you could start by conversing in a mature manner, and not trolling the comments looking for reactions or imagining arguments and situations inside your own head that don't exist. Respect is earned.
Earned? Like you run shit. Lmao.
and I have metric tonnes of it in the circles that matter. I was half way tempted to email you the shots from the dinner party. Oh well.
Shifter karts and 250whp Miata. Breakfast of champions.
Kinda depends: Fitting normal tires will have another problem: It'll rub, and cant lower all the way. So by then you have to find new wheels with less offset.
And as for getting less camber on a suspensions once it lifts: On a macpherson suspension that would be the case, but on a double wishbone it depends on the setup. Skyline probably has macpherson, so it should be fine though....
Ehr, skip that, most likely double wishbone looking at the mounting of the coilovers.
Yeah, they're double-wishbone in the front. So a change of wheels / tyres & some time on the alignment rack and all is good with the world again. I'd still consider that an easy remedy, if it's ever required.
Your right, every problem has it's sollution. But its the cost of the sollution that makes it prohibitive. And then there's still the "big if" if it'll drive worse then factory?
I find that as cars get older you strike the balance between form and function. If you want to go fast and the most current dynamics, get a new GTR. Get the rear guards roller Dino! When you want to go fast, lift the coilovers, and for the periods when you want that perfect look - take it down. Part of the fun of holding onto cars for a long time is going through stages.
@dino i must say i do love it cause well sp1's are the best ever and the r35 fender vents just work so well on a r34 damn who would have guessed??
Each to their own, HOWEVER, Dino - when will we see a Project GT-R update? My Christmas won't be complete without it
In my idealised world, this rig would be on 2” air cups, aired out and sacked, track aligned at 1” or grand touring at 2”. Well that’s my long term plan
Air cups wouldn't be a great choice if that's what you want. They are not meant to be really driven in a lifted state.
Thanks Dave, the info I missed when researching air cups. Here’s hoping the tech allows for actual ride height adjustments in future
Loving this...a lot. Already noticed some comments stating that this wil drive like crap (or not). To be honest, I can't really say because I haven't driven it: it's a very subjective topic, but I think in general the options and quality of both coilovers and air ride systems have improved over the years. Was quite skeptical about air rides initially, but Paddy's writings about his Golf has made me save up for an air ride system myself (but my little Nissan isn't seeing any track time... so perhaps for me it's easier?)
Having said all this: the car looks awesome, it has some cool features and I'm just loving these Work Meisters. I guess that the owner is one happy chappy with this car, and that's all that really matters in my book. Job well done!
What if I told you that the road and physics don't care if you're happy and that happiness doesn't make a car handle better?
lol
Well, maybe (or even probably) you are right my friend. Just my opinion, and I'm at a point in life where I'd rather drive a car that makes me happy, but with not-perfect handling, than driving a car with perfect handling but doesn't make me very happy. I'd be over the moon having such a car
Again, it's just an opinion (and I'm nobody so who cares?). In a perfect world, we'd shake hands at a meet: you'd drive in my bagged dream ride, I'd drive in your super handling machine and we'd shake hands and have a laugh afterwards. Chances are I would have to admit you were right, and I would happily buying you a beer (or another drink of your choice) for it. No worries mate.
fair enough. agreed. this rounds on me.
I value the effort, but from a subjective point of view, it's ugly. I don't like how it sits, I don't like the wheels at all, I don't like the R35 touches (they don't flow with the car at all)...
Different is always nice in my book
*isn't always nice
That is different and that's good
its like a hot girl in 10 year old skanky ugg boots, you look and think damm are your ankles ment to be bent like that
This is the best comment so far!
First thought is, NO HELL NO.. on second thought the car is not ruined. It looks clean and the owned is dedicated to his car. So thumbs up!
Those front fenders....
I need them.
I don’t even have an R34 and I want them
Actually, there are a engine mods: a Blitz air cleaner, Nismo muffler, Tomei catalyst and Tomei down-pipe and mid-pipe. A Nismo intercooler & a Blitz fuel pump. Also a Nismo twin-disc clutch which helps near the 400hp mark. Also in the suspension side, Ikeya Formula upper and lower arms, Struts, compressors, tank, and management were from Air Force suspension to help dial in the fitment,
so why is there no engine bay shots then? i have a stock car and even i pop my engine bay
LOVE the stance tho. Every piece compliments one another.
Nice to see people still doing as they like with icons like these. Really simple, but awesome car.
just looks like a skyline with some r35 fenders and bags.
Nice photos, Dino...
The comments on here really crack me up man, its like a bunch of 16 yr old's clamoring over a YouTube video about make-up...
The person that owns this is most likely building it as a show piece - judging by the super expensive rims with custom fitment, and custom fenders (similar to the many non-road worthy SEMA vehicles). He probably could care less about racing it. I have a mental picture of what I would do with an R34 as well, if they ever become legal in the US, but I feel that it is important to admire it for what he is attempting to accomplish, not what YOU or I would rather do with it. I also feel that it is important to point out that air suspension is not exactly what it used to be in your grandparents 1990's Cadillac's, it has come quite far in terms of engineering and capabilities. I have driven performance cars with/without air suspension and some actually handle better with air than with coilovers. Try it before you hate it.
Looking forward to the rest of the features from this event!
just don't bag project gtr, please.
Great looking car. Interesting to do that much work to a V-Spec II. Those are worth about $80k and up. A lot of money to spend to hard park, but hey it's not my car!
R35 vents look stellar. Very creative and well executed.
It's in Japan...so all good
the r35 touch was well done , however if the line at the end of the fender carbon piece was integrated into the door n fade away then it be perfect symmetry... but it looks bad ass with the vent !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What fury... oh, the comment section of biased opinions. Cmon guys, if this guy loves it, good. He doesn't give an * about what you think, its all about what he thinks, and if he enjoys it, GREAT! Guys, lets show some mercy here.
Reading comprehension doesn't seem to be the forte of the readers who are insulting myself and Kevski. The article asked a question at the end that said "what do you think?"
I said I think it handles like shit and then proceeded to explain why with engineering. Kevski did the same. People are actually talking shit about us? That's laughable.
Our opinion was asked, we gave an educated one based on factual information. It's pretty funny what has happened freedom of expression and even more funny to see how stupid most of the people are who follow this hobby. Not a single clue.
When you see how the average person responds to intellect it's no wonder the world is in such a state of disarray. Culturally it would seem we no longer value the scientific method and simple fact based opinions. Amazing.
You haven't driven the car, you haven't even seen the suspension and you don't know Jack about scientific method, that is why people don't value your opinion. While I disagree with kevski and highly doubt that he is an engineer, he at least attempts to explain his opinion. I think most people on this site would prefer if you kept your opinions to yourself as you usually default to childish insults.
@ Nate: First of all: Why do you doubt that? And thats a serious question? But I really am wondering?
And lets get one thing straight: I'm not sympathising with Marco V in any shape or form. Most coilover setups are just as rubbish to begin with, not because of the product itself, but because of install issues and using them incorrectly.
It's ok Kevski. I get advice from people who out class you by miles. I have no need for your sympathy or empathy. We're all having a proper laugh mate
You disagreeing with him just shows how little you know. This isn't uncommon. I've actually seen guys argue with friends who have world titles under their belt.
Performance is not subjective. Goodbye.
Lol no, no you haven't. Performance is absolutely subjective, you may consider a Miata with a couple of bolt ons to be a performance car while many do not. The entire fact that people are arguing about bags proves that it is subjective. Just give up the act, read and ask questions, be respectful and you may just learn a few things.
I have over 100 hours of interviews with world championship designers and builders. Believe me, if I want to learn something I just pick up the phone. You're a funny bunch here. Truly.
Not sure if that guy started a trend but this is the first slammed 34 I witnessed in Japan last year at Shukai Japan which is an earlier show than StanceNation.
stuff what people think... its looks so frikin cool! japan is so frikin cool!!