We’re on the ground at the Tokyo Motor Show where Mazda has pulled the wraps off its highly anticipated future sports car: RX-VISION. And yes, as the name suggests the svelte-looking machine is – or at least will be according to the Japanese automaker – rotary powered.
As we expected, details are pretty thin, and there’s no actual word when the concept could make it into production. In fact, the official press release reads: “RX-VISION represents a vision of the future that Mazda hopes to one day make into reality; a front-engine, rear-wheel drive sports car with exquisite, KODO design-based proportions only Mazda could envision, and powered by the next-generation SKYACTIV-R rotary engine.”
What we can tell you, however, is that Mazda has truly nailed the design. Up close the car has incredible presence; it sits low and wide with an extended front end where the new generation rotary (there are rumours of a diesel flying around) will obviously sit in a front midship position to give the car the responsive and neutral driving characteristics that the FD3S RX-7 and RX-8 are revered for.
The RX-VISION rides on carbon fiber wheels with more carbon being used in the brake rotor construction – a must-have on any supercar these days.
The window line is very short, which helps give a flowing and menacing look to the car.
There’s a beautiful organic flow to the whole design, and for lack of a better word, it just looks right – especially the rear of the car which is very clean with an integrated spoiler intersecting the small round quad lights at each corner.
Mazda has never played down the technical challenges it faces in designing a rotary engine that can meet present day emission standards and fuel efficiency targets let alone those for the future, but the fact that it’s progressing with its R&D programme and now has a new chassis concept for the unique power plant is at least a sign (officially) of what’s to come…
Dino Dalle Carbonare
Instagram: speedhunters_dino
dino@speedhunters.com
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I see those lines and shapes from the various concepts they've wheeled out before, but this time it looks a lot closer to something you'd see in the real world. So European.
hhhnnnggggggggg......
this is an amazing design, the lines and proportions are perfection.
#bustanut
Looks like an FRS had sex with an Aston Martin
Those tails actually resemble the FD a lot!
Love it!! Love it!! Love it!! Long live the RX and long live the rotary!!
Now give it a 4 rotor turbocharged 16x engine, and thats a win
Coyote_ar Agreed!
Frankly I'm not impressed, the cabin is too far back that you can barely see past the hood, not too mention that it seems a copy of another vehicle. Havent quite point my finger on it yet, I want to say the AM Vulcan but yes I know thats a stretch, but thats what I see. And the rear looks like most concepts cars as unfinished, like the designers were tired and wanted to end it quickly.
Something just screams Jaguar or Aston Martin when I see this, I'm diggin it.
Even more that it's rotary powered.
Take my money!!!
Dat Suspension travel...
DieterManero I've never heard of concept cars looking "similar", tell me more!
For the record, love the car. I remember my first semester design professors ...... proportions, proportions, proportions, everything else is a bandaid.
The led lights that make a shape like tucked pop-up lights is a nice touch. Very interesting looking car, wonder whats under the hood?
Is it as big in person as it looks in pictures. It looks like a larger GT.
looks great if this car will put on production line and race on superGT.... ahh so much love haha
Now I start wondering what if this car appear on GT2 or Mad Mike drift this one lol
Side profile looks like a Datsun....
Really awesome to see a rotary concept from Mazda again, I had been getting worried for a while there.
It does look very expensive, that takes inspirations from more expensive European GT cars. Can Mazda get the car cheap enough to be competitively with other manufacturers? Today the most expensive car Mazda have starts at 30 000 USD and Mazda is not a premium brand.
Dino, were you there the moment the covers were pulled off the car for the first time? What was the crowd reaction like?
OT, but I would love to see an article on brake caliper placement. It is interesting how different vehicles place the calipers differently, especially the fronts.
Looks good.
Ok....Ok...bear with me.... take the first pic and imagine it with........nickel plated fender mirrors! Would go great with the long hood.
how much more do you love it NOW?
Still not convinced? What if it was flush on a nice modern interpretation of RS watanabes?
I love it, combines my two favorite Japanese cars: the smooth organic lines of the RX7 with the side profile of the 240z.
I agree the back end needs some work though...
I like it. I soo hope mad mike gets his hands on one.
I really disapprove of new cars being first shown in red, it hides the lines. You want to make a statement? Have the guts to show it in white, like they did with the original Cosmo, or like Toyota did with the 2000GT.
Also, the flashy light shows for concept car reveals are so overdone. They should just have the lead designer walk up to the car without saying a word and yank the tarp off without warning. Now that would leave a lasting impression, letting the car do the talking.
That being said, she is gorgeous. Unsure of the rear bumper though. Didn't notice the "pop up" shaped front lights at first glance, what a happy surprise!
cjhcjh I agree, but I think it will be 40-60k to compete with lower end jags, Alfa 4Cs and top specced Imprezas. If the next gen supra is anything to go by, I'm sure the long development time and performance will increase the cost wildly.
YES Please!
cjhcjh Though with the cost of the current MX5 and it's looks, there could be hope of it being a £30k car but I wouldn't expect world beating performance or reliability for that.
Somebody please photoshop a massive bolt on arch kit with huge low mounted spoiler haha!
that ass
JakWhite cjhcjh I hope Mazda don't get sucked into the power/performance war and try to create a GTR/NSX/Supra beater. The most popular (in terms of sales) and profitable rotary so far has been the first generation RX-7, which certainly wasn't the quickest car of its time, but was most definitely a fun car to drive.
FROTH!
officer997 Similarities for sure. Zagato inspired then...
JakWhite I'm sure we'll be seeing that sort of stuff VERY soon LOL
abezzegh87 A little, maybe in the pix, but not in person. It's flatter, wider, more squashed if that makes sense. Roundness is there though for sure
perfect design... but wtf diesel engine ?
Voldemar That just looks like a fish
rook56 Yeah that would be interesting!
KiwiMotoring Yes I was. And then I ran to put this story together for you guys! The car was very well received, everyone had only nice things to say about without going into small details of when it will be actually made, and what rotary engine will power it lol. The car of the 2015 Tokyo Motorshow for sure!!
TarmacTerrorist 2 more years to go for actual car though ...
tunerguy21 It's pretty big! Very long, and pretty wide!
StreetStatik That's what concept cars are all about. A big tease!
VivienMercier That's one of the rumours going around. Better fuel consumption and emissions? That's a rotary's biggest issues
Those headlights should have been on a Mercedes AMG GT/S, AMG missed out on that trick. Those wheel arches are so tight too. If they bring it out with Diesel then Mazda should consider Le Mans again.
This looks more like the next Cosmo than the next RX-7 to me. Not complaining.
speedhunters_dino JakWhite Have been done already! https://www.carthrottle.com/post/n45mgdo/
AaronPTorres speedhunters_dino JakWhite That looks pretty damn cool!
Peter_Kelly AaronPTorres speedhunters_dino JakWhite Mazda Furai before being fried.
Very Sexy Car! Maybe it will be as timeless as the FD.
If the throw it on the market just imagine what RE Amemiya and Scoot and all the other Houses will do to it? And i expect a bonkers RE Bodykit like the one on Keisukes FD in the last Races! Holy Crap that Car is gonna be legendary!
DID ANYONE ELSE FIRST THINK THIS WAS THE NEW ASTON MARTIN DB10?
Speedhunters you guys are producing some of the best written car content, for me. It's evomagazine , harrismonkey and you guys. Thank you
Speedhunters also your shop is late I was going to buy a tshirt
ASTON MARTIN BD10
Mazda absolutely killing it. This lived up to my every expectations for a . The pseudo-popup headlamp design, FD inspired tailights, the integral ducktail, and that glorious silhouette! Glad to see the confirmation for rotary revival is strong. Curious if the diesel route will help with some of the sealing problems, but emissions and economy would be a real big boost. Hopefully for some of the harsher climes (I'm looking at you Canada) the new variant of rotary will be a little more resilient. Either way, this is getting me all kinds of hopeful.
Gonna go out on a limb and say that despite being a concept, I am much more attracted to this than any Aston Martin, Mercedes, or any other influences cited. This is near coupe perfection.
Shame it'll never happen
6A13TTFelipe yep!
Love the front and rear lights as they hence some RX7 FD3S influence; Headlight apear to be pop up due to the LED markers but are not. Rear lights hence the 1999+ FD3S with the double round taillights.
Would love to see a 'double bubble' roof line to make perfect
This is what you get when Japanese Design it, unlike the new NSX and FT-1.
RoughIdea
I hope that car would be released in the future! Mazda nailed it!
Please Please Please Automotive Gods... Please bring this beauty to our streets! The design studio of this car just nailed it..!
RoughIdea wdf? racialist
93_shin 薄い！フロントフェンダーがほとんどない！
Coincidence in the name? RX - VI s I on = VII = 7
New GTR. New NSX. Almost a new Supra, and now a new RX7. The japanese clash is almost complete..
This is the best-looking concept from a major manufacturer in years IMO. Zagato similarities neither here nor there. So glad to see OEMs finally beginning to climb out from the massive overelaborate glass-fest headlight rabbit hole. (I'm not sure about the tail but not complaining.)
Rotary? You could fit TWO rotaries under that bonnet!
The Furai was a far fetch dream from going into production, but this one looks promising!
God damn, like as a guy who drives an FD and thinks it's the best looking car ever made. This is an amazing looking car. All the lines, SCREAM FD!! And that bonnet, it's way too long for a 2 rotor... 3 rotor turbo 16x or dare I say it, a production 4 rotor? Damn, I haven't cared about a concert in long, long while, but this changed that...
Wesley hughes upon seeing the long front end, I immediately thought they would be thinking of a 4 rotor. THAT would make this car great. I however cannot bring myself to like all these modern designs. Im stuck in the 90's mentality
CharlesChris15 Wesley hughes Why would a 4 rotor need such a long front end? Rotors are compact.
Right? I'm so conflicted by the design. I really wanna like it, but it's stil sooo, sharp... But hey, if it does turn out to be a 4 rotor I can tell you one FD that will be getting a couple extra rotors...
CHIEHAL9000 最近のマツダはAudiの雰囲気を追ったデザイン展開してると思ってたんだけど、今度はAston Martinっぽいですね！
Just like the other Rx models the motor is mounted midship and though you can shoe horn a 4 rotor into an FD or even a Miata. They bey become weight heavy without some serious weight distribution. This car is way too long in the hood for a 2 rotor, but seems about right fo a 3/4 rotor to be mounted midship...
speedhunters_dino VivienMercier
speedhunters_dino rook56
Usually a compromise between engineering considerations, on one had you want the mass as low as possible, so ideally you mount them at the bottom. This however brings issues with bleeding the system and mounting the lower wishbone in the same area.
RacingPast Good that you posted this picture - I can now clearly see why the AMG GT doesn't really grow on me. This Mazda is a masterpiece ...
RacingPast CharlesChris15 Wesley hughes it doesnt NEED to be that big for a 4rotor, were simply saying that its a big possibility due to the size of the engine bay, or dare i say, they may twin turbocharge a 13b? .0. doubt it tho lol
CharlesChris15 Wesley hughes thaught the same thing! But i think it's not gona be more than a 3 rotor! I suggest........ they'll go with time and add HYBRID!!!!! sadly..
Robbidoo Speedhunters evomagazine harrismonkey Thank you!!!
Gianluca FairladyZ CharlesChris15 Wesley hughes a hybrid rotoray? well since its going to be an "rx" model, it has to have a rotary regardless
Just stunning!!!.
BUT, can they make a NON-Hybrid model for $35-$45K?
TOYOTA=LFA $320K-----NO ! ?
NISSAN= $35-$50k 370Z or $90k GTR------- NO Silvia @#%!!?
HONDA= $150 NSX---No Integra, No Prelude- just the Civic= HYUNDAI
MAZDA- Hello McFly? Anyone home?
6A13TTFelipe No swiss cheesed bonnet lol
@Saint toyota did make the gt86 which was almost literally made for people to mod and customize. they sold it with prius tires for christ sake lol
What a car !!! Hopefully Mazda doesn't stray to far from the concept a la the Toyota 86 / Subaru BRZ. With the current turbo technology along side advances in ECU processing, I am hoping for 400 hp, around 20 mpg's and a 3000lb curb weight.
CharlesChris15
But It was not and is not a Supra.
CharlesChris15 Furthermore, Tony Angelo, Ryan Tuerck, and Ken Gushi have all dropped 2JZ's in their FR-S'.
I would buy an 86/FR-S NEW BUT, without the motor.
And I am currently looking at buying a FC.
I am willing to put up with the probable unreliability, for the chance to experience rotary power.
I wonder HOW the BIG 4 are listening to their customers?
Are they plugged into social media? Or do they just depend on number crunching statistics?
c22tch Amen brother! and less then $40K
I've heard that the engine isn't the same design as the old rotary engines. Different configuration either fixing, or eliminating the apex seals. And the engine IS called the skyactive r. Skyactive engines all have insane compression ratios. And in that sense, diesel sounds perfect. You get better fuel economy, and torque.
For the guys thinking that the nose is too long even for a 4 rotor engine, don't you know that overheating was also one of the biggest issues with this type of engines? In my opinion, the nose is that long to fit maybe 2 intercoolers or a new part they are still developing to reduce heat or emissions maybe, there are plenty of possibile suggestions..
@Saint c22tch I'm thinking more of a supercar... 80K 650 HP? Then make a smaller heavier maybe 350HP variant around 30K? That would be pleasant...
Not sure I like the back end, but the rest looks great. Diggin the front end on Mazdas lately. Think it'll be a hybrid?
This is so excellent. Thank you mazda
johnbezt Really? I think it looks very FD only evolved
Personally, I don't mind it being a hybrid. Rotaries lack torque and this talk of diesel makes me want to throw up. A low revving rotary? Gross, but a high revving 3/4 rotor NA with a hybrid torque fill system(P1, I8, Laferrari style) would be awesome. Also, if the pictures of the interior are to be believed this thing is a stick. So, right now we know 4 things about this car
1. It's rotary, the Rx nomenclature is back in a serious way. It doesn't matter if it's diesel, hybrid, turbo, NA, 2, 3, or 4 rotor. What matters is the wankel lives!
2. It's Rear wheel drive and probably has 50/50 weight distribution with a low center of gravity.
3. its manual, this will be huge if they come to market with a stick.
4. It's lightweight. Carbon wheels/brakes are a big deal. If they employ skyactiv as they have with the
ND than this car is a recipe for fun.
As a Mazda fanboy, this is essentially the second coming and if Mazda delivers on these four things when the Rx? finally hits the market, than I think we might finally have a true successor to the much beloved FD...
Robbidoo evomagazine harrismonkey Thanks for the awesome feedback Jon. We try our best!
Interesting, a SkyActive rotary. I guess Mazda finally figured out the catalytic-converter light-off problem they previously had with direct-injection. Hopefully, they also found a way to get rid of the rotary's total-loss oiling system. Now, is going to be gas powered or is it going to be diesel like Rolls-Royce did back in the '60s.
@MyLifeAsLouis And TopGear.com burned it to the ground.
I'm loving the look of this!! Really hope this makes it to production. I think the tail lights are my favorite part...sooo RX7
This definitely needs a rotary in it...how epic would a 3 rotor be?!?!
I doubt it will be a diesel though. Mazda just abandoned their SkyActive Diesel in IMSA competion, and have spent some time in the second half of 2015 doing tests on their new SkyActive Gasoline engine that will be used in competion for 2016.
I think there's a good chance it will be hybrid of some sort. If they can keep the weight down, it would actually be a pretty spectacular combo. Battery power for bags of low end torque, then a screaming rotary for top end
Jbrady43 c22tch That would be less then a gtr and nsx with more power, that will pretty much never happen at the 80k and 650 hp. 350hp stock usually starts around 40k now a days.
Milov the rx8 concept car had a very long nose too, it's a concept so you have to take it all with a grain of sand. It has a very long hood because it looks good in concept form. I'm sure mazda has a more official answer like weight balance and such but this car will look very different the closer it gets to being manufacturable.
@Saint CharlesChris15 they are very plugged in, the more buzz a car has the better. So keep buzzing.
Twitch_6 I think it'll have an electric motor for the lack of torque on rotary engines and gas mileage. An electric motor will make up for that.Won't work like a hybrid though.
johnbezt I think it'll have an electric motor to make up lack of gas mileage and torque.
Milov Fit an electric motor
2xthefun Jbrady43 c22tch I think 4-500 hp $60-70k.
Rotary Steve here and for the most part, I believe Mazda has nailed the design. This will absolutely look amazing at night with the marker lights on, as in the dark shots of the unveiling video. I have wondered why Mazda did not introduce a 3 rotor version and gear the car accordingly, lots of power, torque to spare and a 65mph cruise at 2100 rpm. I have produced a dynamically balance Cosmo 20b running 6 lbs of boost with renesis rotors for the higher compression component only, 4:30 rear end custom geared 5 speed getting 18/29 mpg respectively. Emission output at idle equivalent to California FD requirements for the 93 model year. Have Rx-8 electric air pump and 3 inch high flow converter, if I can do it Mazda with their millions of RD dollars could produce a 3 rotor Rene version the would give us what we've long desired. The early 70's rotary nearly bankrupted the company, the RX-8 followed closely in its path, this model has to function as intended, as owner loyalty can only go so far. The winningest car in IMSA History has to comeback fierce and show no mercy, how about a 5 year 100,000 mile warranty to start.
P.S. For the record, Mazda did not produce a 3 rotor as intended for the U.S. / Canada in 88. Rumor has it the North American auto industry insulted the auto manufacturer, so they held back the holy grail from our market. Let's hope they get back on top as the true sports car elite from Japan.
When I say hybrid, I mean that it will be a combination of a gas engine combined with a battery and electric motor(s) system.
The gas motor for running at high rpm and for charging the batteries.
The electric power can be used in one of two ways. Either to save fuel, like we see in some street cars already today; or, to increase performance, like in a McLaren P1, LaFerrari, or LMP1 cars.
The LMP1 cars have shown that you don't need a big motor at all to produce insane HP when coupled with an electric system. IIRC, the Porche LMP1 car is a 1.4 litre straight 4, and it makes 1000hp, which the cars are limited to by the rules. They claim they could easily do more of they wanted to.
I'm just guessing, but I think a 2 rotor engine coupled with a battery system would be a pretty damn good combo. Obviously I don't think Mazda would go as extreme as Porche, because I don't think thst's the market they're aiming at. But even a hybrid system that produces a fraction of those numbers is impressive.
@Saint Excellent point and i can't agree with you more!
speedhunters_dino Voldemar And not hugely different from an Aston, or this concept.
I know y'all gonna burn me to the ground but to me, this looks like just another concept that will have 5% to do with any production. Mazda did a fantastic job with the release, as you can tell by the comments here...you've been teased with something hinting at Mazda's greatest car, yet promised you all nothing other than a style of engine. Yet everyone's off and running, weeping tears of joy to the gods while drooling visions of 4-rotors and a 90's fever fugue.
Try to imagine today's safety requirements for a production vehicle, and what will happen to this to make it into production. $5000 apiece carbon wheels and brakes? Parking the car would be like directing a cigarette boat into a slip with the front end a football field away and below sight level. Sky-Activ Rotary. Mazda has massively committed to diesel tech (their lawyers are playing CYA in the wake of VW...) so can you really conceive of diesel wankels? There was also a tasty hint from someone about hydrogen-cell also, I would rather see a small gas-rotary+H-cell combo if they are thinking future.
But seriously folks, we get teased with these ultra-sleek pure design concept cars at Geneva and Tokyo every year since what, 1960? And you can't tell fantasy from reality yet? Look at that superb GT4 Stinger Kia had a few years ago that was 90% production ready. That's something I can possibly believe will happen. All you've been given here is a fantasy sketch with a nice paint job. Look deep inside, way down. You know this car is not anywhere near what Mazda may (or may not!) give you in the future. #flamesuiton
LiquidPiston rotary engine (different fuel combustion cycle) is the future: No seals and no oil consumption.
It's going to be interesting to see how mazda will do it legally, since the liquidpiston guys already have patents in the US...
https://vimeo.com/99002635
http://liquidpiston.com/technology/how-it-works/
Just seen the official comment by Fujiwara(on topgear website):
“I can’t go into
details, but we believe turbo is one of the options we can look at for
rotary,”
“At this moment we’re not working on a rotary
hybrid system."
They are going for a turbo updated renesis... all the same problems as before and no progress.
I'm disappointed.
D1RGE EXE I agree with you, there will be many details of this concept that end up waaaay different in the production RX. I mean just check out the RX8 and the FT-86/BRZ. Both of those deviated a heap from the concept cars. On this one you can kiss goodbye to the tiny slivers of wing mirror, the huge wheels with small arch gaps, the wicked interior and probably the front and rear lights.
Still as far as the overall aesthetic goes this is a hell of a design direction and I really dig it. Everyone comparing this to every other car needs to calm down, if you were to design a car that looked too different it'd probably end up looking like an abomination. It's a sleek, rear drive, two door coupe, how on earth should it look?
And yeah everyone guessing what sort of rotary engine, lol calm down.
Rotary Uche here, all the non-believers and hater parties can eat a dick. Mazda unveiled an amazing concept and will deliver a great production model. That's it. The Rotary is back and can't wait t learn more about it's Eco-Friendly direction for the future. #lovesmazda
Brap
Anyone catch Mad Mikes post today on FB. Damn!
You cannot really compare a race engine to a production engine. Of course, WEC engines have to work for 24h under raceconditions, wich are extreamly high compared to normal road use. And they can use special made parts for their engines, wich you cant in porduction models. Because you always have to design parts wich can be made in big numbers and still pass quality tests.
But still, litterally everbody can extract huge amounts of power out of any engine. But then the life of the engine will be very short compared to lower power outputs.
Likely a genisis competitor which means a lot of details will change. Will still be good looking car. Bet they keep some of the hood/front fender lines. Also rear tail lights as they hint at fd3. Regardless, it's hard to screw up this design into production and if you need wankel then I won't matter much anyway. Main concern is weight - with all the regulations and tech these days I'm guessing low 3k lbs with would be nice. Go mazda!
Hmm maybe it is just me... I don't like the design at all. I'm feeling like its a bland, bloated, round, mess at the moment. But I do love the FD. Might warm up to it eventually... :S
The profile is like merc SLS nose + aston vanquish for the rest of it. I can't see RX.
i23sonny What's RX though, really? How does one see "it"?
It's blandness is refreshing in a sea of gaudy lines, extra this and that on every new car's front and rear, too much fuss and carry on. Keep it simple and less is more, a much better philosophy with car design IMO. Over the top is for children.
capsnet2003 No.
D1RGE EXE RX8 turned out very similar to it's concept version, so I wouldn't be so sure this will stray too far. Of course stuff will change, but this concept isn't "way out there" to make it unbelievable.
takahashitothetop johnbezt it does, but it also looks a little toooo organic like that new (read: bland) mercedes. Also, the style has been done so many times by Aston Martin that without knowing it I'd think this was an AM. Still, the production version would look nothing like this. It needs more dimension IMO to keep up with the lines on the rx7-8
I like it. Little less nose, little more boot/trunk to take the GT look away and give it a bit of an FD style body. I'm not massively into the long nose, small cabin, no boot look, but in all reality if it turns out even half like this concept I won't be upset.
Spaghetti i23sonny
Without the badge. Would you have picked it to be an RX successor?
Spaghetti Really?
Too hot! Hot damn!
That looong engine bay.. Would be fun for any engine swaps imaginable for sure
Febrian XR I reckon, 2x 2JZ's back to back would be mad.
i23sonny Spaghetti I'd pick it to be Mazda, yes.
Brett Allen Spaghetti The shape is actually very close from the nose back. Of course those headlights would never make production, but for the most part the body is the same except for the actual front end design. It's not worlds apart from the final product that's for sure.
After 25 years, specifically in the Rotary Engine industry and through my affiliating with Racing Beat in the Past. I have the luxury of being slightly more "in the know" with regards to Mazdas future endeavours with the rotary engine. Buying a sports car that drinks fuel in relation to its expected performance really isn't the issue for a true enthusiast. Some basic problems lie in the reliability factor, when a car has its hood up more than its closed, it becomes less desirable to the non die hard fans. Nissan 350Z gets mediocre fuel economy as does the Mark IV Supra. Both cars have a decent reliability factor supra N/A gets 18-22 mpg average. The rotaries thirst isn't really the issue, manufacturers meeting emissions standards of the potential countries to sell their product is. Even if you get 15mpg and could meet strict emission standards and had a reliable track record from a true performance car it would sell. Chances are if you work at Dunkin Donuts, live in your parents basement and bum cigarettes from your friends, perhaps this isn't the car for you. Unfortunately the person that could afford the car brand new (Rx-8 for example $40k) has had enough of the flooding and faulty engine issues, gets dumped on the market for a fraction of their original cost and now anyone with $4k can get into a car that they can afford to buy, but not maintain.
All that being said, let's step up "under engineered" Rotary engines and drivetrains. Cermacoating plus Mazdas new apex seal technology would definitely give them the credibility they so deserve. With the prototype technology I have been privileged to see and be a part of, a sub 12 second rotary powered vehicle out of the box for $65K+ would be a reliable and quality built product. With Japanese competitors flagship sports cars ranging from $60K up to $100K+ for the Nismo Skyline. Prepare your line of credit for this car, it should come with the all aluminum 2.0 ltr 3 rotor Rene. If not then we will get another fabulous chassis with an underachieving power plant. 2 rotors are great but have run their course. This could be Mazdas 3rd strike, if they don't go big they will be going home.
Here's to needing a fresh pair of underwear after the test drive.
Superb! And please Mazda, keep the rotary engine in, and out with the Diesel
Rotary Steve Comment of the day - nicely written and I agree with everything you've said.
Brett Allen Spaghetti hahahaha! This looks like the result of asking an eight year old to draw an RX-8.
Mazda's other concepts of late say the Mazda 6 for example came out extremely similar to production models, I expect similar lines with smaller wheels diff headlights and bigger mirrors
Interesting, but some are in front of the disc and others behind. The placement on this concept got me wondering. Thanks for the info though.
Spaghetti capsnet2003
Val41012 2xthefun Jbrady43 c22tch
I saw used GT-R s for $56k recently. Mazda better be really carful how they price this car. if they keep it right next to a Nissan 370z and Ford Mustang.
In the future roads will be wider?
As a longtime Mazda owner and Mazda fan. I am extremely ambivalent about this car. I have to be wholly honest, the concept looks like garbage. Kodo-design language has pervaded just enough that nothing about this car seems original, surprising, or true to Mazda's roots. This looks like a Supra + GT86 had a love child and then some Mazda engineers put a little smoosh on the hood and stretched it out, taking the time to slap some Aston Martin-esque pseudo-vents on the side. Carbon-fiber wheels? Carbon ceramic brakes? Does Mazda anticipate that people are going to buy this car over a Shelby GT350R, or a properly specc'ed Porsche? Over a GT-R? This car is a fantasy wet dream for a whole group that may never have the cash to afford it. And the rest of it is a headache for those who can afford it.
In a world where magnetically controlled dampers can make a bloated Chevrolet Camaro run the Nürburgring in less than 8 minutes, while still allowing it to be driven pretty much everywhere and have enough horsepower to toast everyone in a straight line...Why are we obsessing over the thought of a ~300 horsepower ~65k Mazda supercar?
i23sonny Spaghetti Yes. I've seen some more pics of this on another site, and that rear hatch/window and the rear lights are pure RX7, no denying that's a successor IMO. The front is very 2015 Mazda too, so although it's got nothing from it's lineage, it's easily branded.
RB430 Tru Dat, As a rotard myself i cant see the advantages of an overpriced rotary that you should excpect to maintain and rebuild on your own. They need to stop selling us luxury sports cars with gimmic gadgets and electric seats with heated stearing wheels. just go back to the basics and sell us something gearheads can fiddle with and afford. i dont need 500hp from the factory
Rotary Steve 3 rotors would make it suck a more desirable, fun, better driving and still keep it NA for reliablilty.
Now that we've established this as a concept car, perhaps we can move on with a little professionally structured post comments. As for obsessing, we have all been guilty of that at one time or another. When twinkles were removed from the market, a special donut of the month or an all you can eat breaded shrimp buffet. We wait and wait, then they bring it back and we all go crazy again. Piston motors have undeniably proven themselves, we know what they are capable of in the traditional sense. Pretty easy to slightly tweak a car made from a major manufactured that had a federal bailout in the Billions 5 years ago. Imagine what kind of cars could have been built from Mazda ( I used Mazda just as the example), if Japan had to bail out their poorly run manufaturers. It's equivalent to the Harvard rich kid with the "Daddy" net, and the struggling student that truly has to work for everything they get and actually earn the nogeriety.
I've done a 1200whp 2JZ, very impressive motor. I've done a 1600whp 20B, either car will prevent a passenger from grabbing a taped Hundred dollar bill off the dash. How boring would life be if we all owned a Prius or an extend cab S-10. 300Hp would be boring as all manufacturers have been there, 400+ and a curb weight around 3k, it would take minimum 540hp in a V8 to even keep up at 3600 pounds. I should know as I test vehicles for that very reason. I love the buzz this release has stirred up, exactly what the doctor ordered....
zombiedog All concepts are wide and sportscars are always wide?
Peter_Kelly Brett Allen Spaghetti That 8 year old draws some good wheels though... Haha
The real news here folks is that the Mazda DNA IS ALIVE. The rotary lives, and as one who has owned 5 Mazda Rxs that can only be great news, for in recent times Mazda corporate speak has appeared indifferent to the role this mighty engine would play in shaping Mazdas future. It's fantastic that this new generation of Mazda engineers are rotor fans; the reality of making this engine stack up in the real worlds of accounts and government environmental won't be easy, but rotor heads can rest easy now this new Mazda rotary is on the horizons. Of course, Mazda would have been foolish not to realise that it's highly rich motorsport history is what should be its future. Mazdas superb sculpture at Goodwoods #fos this year, and of course mad mikes outstanding support for all things Mazda rotary have done massive amounts to raise the profile of the the little beer keg engine, for he isn't just a driver with manufacturer support, he's a Mazda Rotary guy, and I doubt you'd see him with a piston powered beast, no matter who was paying the bills. People who have owned rotarys know the feeling, and I for one can't wait for this to arrive. Oh, and whilst they're at it, rotar option in mx5, and at least a 3 rotor somewhere in the range, along with a rotary hybrid just to keep things bang up to date.
3 rotor actually requires 23% less tps load at 2100 rpm uses 15% less fuel at 60mph. These numbers are based on the original 20B center exhaust port design with Rene rotors. 6lbs of boost from a prototype 64mm turbo, gives me 418rwhp. I have 74,000 miles not kilometres on this motor built originally with new rotor housings and factory chrome surface removed and cermacoated with in house apex seals. Auxiliary 2 stroke oil reservoir utilizing the 09 renesis 3 oil injector design rotor housing. Engine was torn down at 25k and 50k miles to view wear and overall condition. Apex seals I supplied new are 8.5mm and at 50k miles wear was at 8.14mm. I expect to get 200k+miles from this experimental build, elements from this progress are being considered in production design. Due to the low stroke design of the eccentric shaft turbocharging increased efficiency at low rpm. Getting into the dynamics of the theory is deep, but sound. Enjoy the ride, let's see where it ends
Because the rotary is alive, and on Mazdas radar. A Mazda fan, and a Mazda rotary fan can be different, I assume from your comments you are a Mazda owner; and am guessing that you're basing your observations on having owned Mazdas: where any of them rotarys?
Me, I don't care, as long as it's rotary! I'd be curious to see a diesel rotar, that's for sure, and if it drove any way close to my rx, and ran on diesel, and I could buy it, hell yeah! But if it drained the engine of its character, then no!
Hello, I'm a Mazda rotary engineer, I don't base my comments from owning them (I have 2). I do it by re engineering components and changing seal compositions by making them as frictionless as possible while increasing strength.
3 rotor actually requires 23% less tps load at 2100 rpm uses 15% less fuel at 60mph. These numbers are based on the original 20B center exhaust port design with Rene rotors. 6lbs of boost from a prototype 64mm turbo, gives me 418rwhp. I have 74,000 miles not kilometres on this motor built originally with new rotor housings and factory chrome surface removed and cermacoated with in house apex seals. Auxiliary 2 stroke oil reservoir utilizing the 09 renesis 3 oil injector design rotor housing. Engine was torn down at 25k and 50k miles to view wear and overall condition. Apex seals I supplied new are 8.5mm and at 50k miles wear was at 8.14mm excellent considering HP level and day to day driving, we expect to get 200k+miles from this experimental build, elements from this progress are being considered in production design. Due to the low stroke of the eccentric shaft turbocharging increased efficiency at low rpm. Getting into the dynamics of the theory is deep, but sound. Enjoy the ride, let's see where it ends
I really like this concept, however I don't see how the front could possibly make it into production. There is absolutely no wheel well clearance above the tire at all. One good bump and your pushing a front tire through the hood/fender...
RB430 A Shelby, or a Porsche wouldn't even rate in my top 100 of cars to buy, and a GTR would be close to 75ish, so yes, this would rate above those IMO. It's not always about HP or price, look at the Lexus LFA....far from the fastest supercar out there, and really far from the cheapest and they still sold pretty well. Not everyone wants to "toast" the Camaro, some people couldn't care less in all honesty.
Where did 300hp and $65k come from anyway?
Mercedes AMG GTS springs to mind
damn it looks hella good but to be honest the back reminds me of the ferrari FF and the AMG GTs , but what im trying to say is that the back looks terrible
Oh ni
josephgroves99 It looks like modernised FD rear though
greenroadster Dude... Mazda dudes are working hard with diesels. Get over it.
capsnet2003 HOLY MOLY
If a person walked into a Mazda dealership in 2011 they could have picked up a fully loaded Rx8 for 33K. If you bought 2 then posting $65K would be accurate. I'm guessing the his and hers package. 300Hp would be embarrassing for any serious sports car today.
Mobile-friendly - Apr 23, 2013 - The 2011 Mazda RX-8 is ranked #5 in 2011 Affordable Sports Cars by U.S. News ... Home · New Cars ... Original MSRP: $26,795 - $32,960. The internet is a fabulous thing when navigated with skill. A little more homework would have shown in 1995 the FD sold fully equipped with all factory accesories at that time for as much as 52K In Canada. 2005 rx8 fully equipped with ground effect package was $48K max in Canada as well.
This car needs to step up a commit to the level of excellence only quality materials can supply, along with that the price tag to reflect it. It's easy enough to engineer reliability into this engine. I've done it and continue to do it, consumers will pay the sticker price if they only have to pay it once and have the full support of the automaker. If Mazda brings this car in under 60K, I hope they have enough nails in their bucket to secure the lid on the coffin this time. These cars need to be purchased by consumers that can afford them, not by people who buy on a whim through ignorance. A fool and their money are soon parted.
Being mainstream can be boring, glad to know there are still some of us willing to break out of the mould. Kind of like the movie The Matrix, so nice when we wake up from the illusion......
Spaghetti
I agree it is not always about power or price. But whatever Mazda is aiming at here, is a lofty goal that will find it floundering in previously charted, rough waters...
Did the RX8s and FDs sell well? FD total US numbers 1993-1995 model years - 13,879 units - RX8 total US sales numbers ~75,000 units in 10 model years from 2003-2012. Those are total numbers, not even the top-spec models which were exceedingly rare (particularly in the case of the FD).
Meanwhile for Porsche, model years 1993-1995 only the 911 and the 968 were available as models, Porsche still sold a total of 15,611 units. If you go look at the 2003-2012 span, things get way better for Porsche, from 2003-2005 MY, only 911s and Boxsters were available, from 2006 onward, Porsche had the Cayenne which affected their sales numbers. Latest projections show Boxster/Cayman/911 make up 40% of Porsche's annual sales. So I calculated 40% of the sales numbers for MYs 2006-2012. The total of 2003-2005 and 2006-2012 Boxster/Cayman/911 sales is over 200,000 units. If you add MX5 sales during that time Mazda gets more respectable ~175,000 units. Which means they still sold 25,000 more Miatas during the RX8s run and 25,000 fewer sportscars than a "high end" marque.
Sorry guys, the rotary powered "high end sportscar" is a bad concept for Mazda and historically hasn't sold well for them in the past two decades. If they want to do something rotary powered, stick a Skyactive-R Rotary in an MX5 with a spartan interior, price it $25k against the FR-S/BR-Z and watch those sell.
Sources: http://alecto.bittwiddlers.com/vehicles/rx7-numbers.shtml, http://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/how-many-rx-8s-were-produced-227155/, http://press.porsche.com/more_about/statistics/, http://press.porsche.com/news/release.php?id=837 -
A stunning care for sure... BUT: The one thing that jumps out at me is the high, curved shoulder line - particularly evident in the reflection line.
There are other details that need adjusting like the very long hood, the tail-light/spoiler interface, and the rear quarter window shape, but this is the one thing that majorly influences the design, and just a very subtle change would make it so much better. Check out my very quick Photoshop tweak. Which do you prefer?
Pete the perfect pilot Ive got one FD and one FC but ive been through a few of them. shoulda picked up a 20b back when they were 2K.
There are just a few folks who live outside of the big olde USA. Whilst it's a key market, the world is bigger than just American sales, so I'd be interested to see how those numbers stack up globally. I'd say that the rx series was a great success, especially given the amount of press the vehicles garnered for Mazda. As a footnote, in today's world, you'd want a piece of the Chinese market ....
Pete the perfect pilot
Total RX series numbers (global), 1,002,660. Total number of Porsche 911s built since 1963: ~860,000 units.
The RX series certainly was successful globally. A huge market was Australia, though. A market, that like the U.S., is a tougher market than ever before. I agree success today will be defined by success in China and Russia. Porsche and Mazda are about dead even for units sold in China in the first quarter of this year. I view that as bad news for Mazda, who with lower cost vehicles, should be moving at least 25-50% more volume than Porsche. A niche sportscar is not likely to help their bottom line. The best selling vehicle for Porsche was the Macan and for Mazda was the CX5.
___
I get that rotaries are cool. We like them. I love Mazda performance. But Mazda has excelled, since the introduction of the Miata in 1989, as a company that puts the sportscar back in the hands of the average man. The RX-series has had its various models that are excellent, I won't deny. I'd stab someone for a pristine twin-turbo FD. But this is a tricky line to walk. Carbon fiber wheels and carbon ceramic brakes? This car is competing in Porsche/GTR/Corvette/Viper territory, a place where Mazda has never tried to compete. Could they be successful? Sure. But that's a tough row to hoe, especially against established big-time players in the field.
rally2727 josephgroves99 i can see what your talking about
Chocomonstaar you can't get a low slung hood iike that into production with saftey laws and all that junk
Mazda Romeo
Agreed. It's more the curve of the shoulder and reflection lines I'm trying to highlight. The 'before' is a little too curved and convex, wheras the 'after' is more contoured and taut, and highlights the arches better. Just a subtle difference in the door surfacing could be enough.
Rotary Steve With this chassis, an "up-to-date" 3 rotor design would be very fitting and will sell. With that being said, the new RX with a turbo WILL more than compete with any of the super cars out there. Turn for turn with matching tires and power, nothing beats an FD in top and appropriate form. Considering the many carbon parts on this car and being a true two seater, I'd expect to come under 3000 lbs with a 3 rotor. I will also add that the price will match performance just like the FD's original pricing. I'm saving everything for this car and if it checks out, I may, and thats a big may depending on finances let my FD and RX-8 go. That might cover half the cost if that.
3 rotor... I will give up both the FD and RX-8 if this new platform gets something like a 3 rotor and welcomes turbos. Also, I hope Mazda provides an extensive manual for proper operation of the vehicle for the very incompetent people of the past and today's rotary owners.
Spaghetti Febrian XR lol V12
Looks good. Not exactly FD caliber in my opinion. Too much of a large luxury GT barge than all out sports car. Its going to need at least 500hp and it better not weight 3500+ pounds.
SmoothAsButter SN Peter_Kelly Brett Allen Spaghetti Or knows how to copy 2002 Acura RSX wheels
It looks like a jaguar f-type
Chocomonstaar The after makes it look more like the FD rx7, I like!
Looks great. Mazda have nail it!
steelyknives Chocomonstaar WE can't? Oh shit someone better tell ford, and GM.
Overall it looks like the Infiniti VISION concept, especially the front. If I'm not mistaken, Nissan, Infiniti, and even Mercedes came out with a VISION concept for Gran Turismo. To me it's not a new design, it's just a re-hashed design that 3 other car makers have played with. As a person who has been designing cars for 14 years and for any other car designers, the whole cut and past/cookie cutter designing techie is pathetic. Cars the days are losing their individuality and uniqueness.
capsnet2003 How about this widebody?
Spaghetti FD RX-7's always had the long nose, short rear deck proportions. It was the RX-8 that they made more moderate.
6A13TTFelipe http://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/5/2012/07/Subaru-BRZ-Mount-Fuji-in-Background.jpg
speedhunters_dino Robbidoo Speedhunters evomagazine harrismonkey How's this for a widebody?
the car was very good
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