Has the furore died down yet, or should we come back later?
If anything, it was inevitable.
Nothing could possibly have lived up to the expectations laid down by over 25 years worth of legacy, and that’s just from the fourth generation of Supra alone. Toyota haven’t really helped themselves either, by drawing out its release for what feels like the better part of the last decade. They certainly done themselves no favours by showcasing the FT-1 in advance, either…
As is the way of the internet, the indignant are always the loudest, so you would be forgiven for thinking that the entire world was up in arms about the new Supra. I’m not sure what these people were expecting. Toyota were hardly going to put a 28 year old engine into a new chassis or invest an absurd amount of money into creating an all new 3JZ for a product that will likely be relatively low volume, just to appease the tough folk of the internet. Folk, who for the most part, will never buy the new car anyways.
Thankfully, I’ve always found that Speedhunters is a place of relative refuge for the more considered enthusiast. Those of us who will bide our time and reserve judgement until we’ve either at least seen it in person or perhaps been fortunate enough to have the opportunity to drive the car before reaching our own conclusions.
The more I think about it, the more Toyota’s approach to the Supra makes sense. The last great inline-six they made was the 2JZ, so why not use a BMW engine for the project? It’s not as if BMW haven’t been making some of the greatest sixes for decades, and continue to do so in an era of increased legislation and a bigger rule book than ever before. This isn’t 1991, anymore.
While the chassis is again shared with BMW, I have full faith in Toyota to have developed and optimised it for maximum driver enjoyment. Have you ever experienced a GT86 from behind the wheel? They’re really very, very good. So, they know a thing or two about making a damn good car, which is probably why we’ve had to wait so long.
There are sticking points and legitimate causes for concern. Even I, a huge supporter of a good double-clutch ‘box, winced when I heard that it won’t be offered with a manual, at least in the beginning, anyways. The interior is essentially a typical BMW interior with a Toyota steering wheel, which isn’t the worst thing in the world.
I know we live in an era where even Golfs are 300hp+, so 335hp isn’t exactly what it used to be, particularly when the same engine in the new Z4 is rated at 382hp, but cars are about so much more than peak horsepower figures. I know this and you know this, too. However, BMW tuners around the world have already been tinkering with the B58 (aka 3JZ) with some already extracting 400hp at the wheels with simple tweaks alone.
Why some people are losing the run of themselves, is an entirely different discussion.
I can live with certain flaws (or even perceived flaws) as long as the thing drives good. First impressions are positive, too, as it’s lighter and more powerful than its predecessor, so that’s a good start.
And when you do compare the A80 & A90, you have to compare like for like. I think a lot of people are making the (forgivable) mistake of comparing the stock A90 to the idea of their perfect modified A80.
So, let’s wait.
I know, I know, waiting to make an informed opinion goes against every fabric of what it means to be alive in 2019, where you must choose one side or the other, without being afforded the time to learn the whole story, the facts of the matter be damned.
Maybe it’s good, and maybe it’s bad. At the moment, nobody knows. So, for the time being, let’s give Toyota the benefit of the doubt and see how things pan out.
I’d wager there’s a lot of humble pie going to be served later in the year.
Photography by Nate Hassler for Toyota USA
I'm not a huge fan of the looks of the car, compared to the FT-1. But using a BMW inline 6 is great. Knowing how well the FRS/BRZ/86 cars drive, if Toyota can manage to pull this off again, but with more power, they will absolutely have a hit on their hands.
Guys. Everything is lost. Where are we going? As much as we love Toyota, as much as I think we will hate them...
Idk, most new Toyotas look pretty damn good. Get it together Ray Charles.
Who cares until it comes with a manual.
A miata would be more fun than this turd and half the price too
Imagine how lame this would be to drive if you could only afford the 4 cylinder version and you cant even get a manual.
How stupid will you feel when a GTI pulls up next to your brand new supra and smokes you, even a frs will smoke this car and have more fun doing it.
Not true on the FRS/BRZ smoking the 4-cyl. While the peak power is higher on the BRZ, the torque is much more present in the Supra - it will be faster.
I guess if the only thing you care about is what the 18yr old beside you at the stop light is doing, then yes, I see your point. To further your point, why wouldn't you just get the GTI then... haha
Well said Paddy, so many people have been giving the new A90 Supra a lot of hate, especially because it won't be offered in a manual transmission (hopefully it happens later on!). Sure the new Supra doesn't have a 3 JZ under the hood, but BMW's in-line 6's are probably the finest in-line 6's on the market now, so I'm quite happy that Toyota has used an engine that has a lot of potential for tuning, as a Supra really is a tuners car. But I'm still hoping Toyota finds a way to fit the new Supra with a BMW M3 or M4 manual transmission! Fingers crossed!
The fact that they hyped it for ages and this is the end result is just hilarious. This is Toyota’s flagship car, the car they want to be known by, the car that shows us what they consider to be sporty. The big 3 have insane muscle cars and sports cars, Honda has the nsx and the civic type r, bmw literally has the same car but better and Porsche has the 718’s. I’m not sure who they thought this would appeal to?
They didn't actually hype it for ages. You can blame the car blogs and media for that and, in turn, the "clickers", ie; us. Since they will write and report on whatever gets them the most clicks. And that's anything with the name Supra in it. Blame yourself. Blame me. But be glad they even made the effort to bring out a car you were gonna bitch about anyway. lol Lordie. You folk are angry!
Yes, yes they did with stupid teasers and concepts for years. I don’t blame the media or anyone else for this disappointing car, and nobody would be complaining if there weren’t legit reasons
Actually, no, they didn't. Photographers and writers chased those leads. I have almost every official release.
Not only that, but you are aware they cannot engineer an entire automobile in a week. I mean, even manufacturer updates to existing vehicles generally have an average of approx 4 years.
I'm not too excited to hear about the lack of manual myself, however. Whether the auto is superior performance-wise or not. (It most likely will be, so saying it's not suitable for a track car is ridiculous, no to mention how many other high end performance vehicles use an "auto", now, as well.)
And plenty of people are complaining without any real world experience and less than "legit" reasons since some of that reasoning is baseless, based on ignorance or simply opinion. Just because you don't like cheesecake doesn't mean it's not good. It'd GD delicious and if you ever talk sh!t about it, so help me...
Its fine to be disappointed by how it looks but you havent driven it, there are no reviews out there as yet. There is some prototype journo feed back and its all very positive. People are obsessed these days with how the car looks aesthetically more so than how it drives. Pathetic fickly Instagram generation.
People find it blasé because it has 335hp, which is nothing to brag about this day in age. It also doesn’t include a manual transmission which is laughable for a non track inspired enthusiast car. IMO aesthetics are the only thing this car has going for it, and they aren’t even that great
Yeah, it's disappointing to say the least.
I'm so tired of people trying to shut down criticism by saying "oh whatever you aren't going to buy one anyways." There wouldn't be a comments section here if you had to submit a bank statement anytime you had anything even mildly negative to say. If you like the car, then try to show people why you like it, rather than using shitty excuses to alienate anyone without $50k to drop on a brand new car.
I'm all for it. It has good, proportional visual weight front to back. Sure the front bumper looks like the designer drank a bottle or ten of absinthe and then took to a canvas with their eyes closed... that can be changed. The engine will likely be amazing if it's anything like the n54 and n55, maybe not in stock form but eh, these probably will end up being modified pretty regularly. Big shame about the manual though, with their resources I find it hard to believe that Toyota cannot just stuff a manual in it to appease what I imagine to be a reasonably large portion of their market.
Brutally ugly car.
I'm disappointed about how the styling ended up. I don't hate the styling, but a lot of the edgy and graceful design of the FT-1 has been softened and the end result just doesn't work as well. I understand that it's because the Supra shares the Z4 platform, which is a shame because it's clear that the FT-1 styling has been shoehorned to fit the chassis (Z4 wheelbase is far too short for the FT-1, which tucks the rear wheels under the greenhouse instead of behind), and the great proportions were lost in the process.
yes, all the cool things about the prototype/concept disappeared, looks cheap now
tiny wheel base
z4 everything including interior
Am I the only one who thinks the A90 looks good?
Wow, a reasonable take on a new car from Speedhunters, pleasantly surprised.
The spicy edgy 'takes' on the Speedtail and the 935 actually read in a similar vein as all the Supra fanboys (from my perception, actually from within the car industry).
For the naysayers, yeah righto kid - It would totally be acceptable for the biggest car maker in the world to stick a near-30 year old engine in their flagship sports car, and for F's sake - this isn't the 70s. If you haven't driven a contemporary BMW with the B58 turbo 3.0lt, just stop.
Car makers don't have the millions of development dollars to throw at niche sports cars anymore, and no matter how much of a tantrum you kick up on social media; you, me, and - most of all - Toyota know that you aren't even in the market for this car.
Cool ya jets
It looks ok. The front bumper will have to grow on me. But Ive always perceived the Supra as the Skyline’s arch nemesis. It does not look as such any more. Hope that makes sense.
"I know, I know, waiting to make an informed opinion goes against every fabric of what it means to be alive in 2019, where you must choose one side or the other, without being afforded the time to learn the whole story, the facts of the matter be damned."
Made me lol. Anyway I think it looks good
I must be part of the few that like this car.
I see a blank canvas that only few can afford to modify.
I hate how we as a community are so quick to judge. like if all you lot care about is vents and how fake they are then you may as well just not be a car enthusiast.
I feel like i'm the only one on the internet that actually loves this thing. The only thing that holds me back is the transmission. But everything else i love. The styling. The platform. The performance levels. Price is reasonable.
I'm grateful that the Supra is back thanks to Toyota or BMW.
One thing always holds true and that peoples minds are limited to only what they know and are comfortable with. Perhaps everyone should look at this as the last Supra that will ever be made. Maybe 10 to 15 years from now, when the world powers all agree to "only" build electrical cars, perhaps we can all appreciate the last cool combustible engines we can modify and enjoy somewhat like yesteryear. I have been a fan of all generations of the Supra, and this...this is the next generation and I am loving it! I can already visualize all kinds of aero, wheels, and bigger brake combos. All the ECU tuning (once somebody gets that figured/cracked) and upgraded turbos, etc and if we can push 500-600 hp out of this new Supra then it will create fans and believers.
worlds ugliest miata and slowest, least roomy mustang - sales of the LC and RC will likely improve
I'm sure it will drive beautifully... But the gt-86 looks better... By a lot
Hit the nail on the head. And like many, I do wish for a manual and I would prefer a less BMWish interior. But either way, I look forward to seeing and experiencing it in person.
As far as all the negative comments that are based on ignorance and/or speculation, I stopped caring about the ridiculousness of it all when I saw a comment stating the new Mustang was more Supra than the new Supra... O_o bwhahaha I figured that was close enough to the pinnacle of entertaining and inane comments I was going to read on the topic and just stopped concerning myself anymore.
I believe I understand how and why this is the Supra we're getting. I'm glad they made the effort and I look forward to experiencing it.
People should be happy it’s not a ev or hybrid at least we will see modified versions on the street ...okay it’s but ugly and auto and will never be a mk4 .just buy a mk4 instead and forget about this pr stunt
About that interior, I'm just glad Toyota didn't angle the center of the dash towards the driver like BMW normally does.
It's not that Toyota decided to partner with BMW. It's that they decided to do it on their sports flagship car. For every car manufacturer, the top of the line sports model is their chance to show the world not only their latest and greatest tech but that they can compete against all the other manufacturers in it's class. A true car guy knows the powertrain is the heart and soul of a vehicle. So, this is not a Toyota. This is a BMW with Toyota badging. If sales volume is the issue, hike up the price and make it a limited edition run or don't release it until the time is right. Either way don't cheat yourself by using others engineering. Do the right or don't do it at all. Isn't that what we all love about the Japanese spirit to begin with?
I think we have a very broad audience reading this article and leaving a comment. Everyone is in another position. Some are car guys, some love toyota, some don't, some are journalists, some never even touched a wrench but are car guys as well. So, i think we have to accept that the world we're living in is no "request concert" where ce can just wish a new 3JZ A70 look a like Supra ... ( or in my personal case a modern version RB engine for the next Z model ) ... We have to be glad that at least toyota did not forget about the enthusiasts and at least brought us the supra badge back.
I agree on the theory of Dino, i think the proportions are bit too short. I appreciate that the car is mostly bmw, because let's be honest, they're right about being "the ultimative driving machine", so nothing's wrong with that. I think, even having this base, it won't stop tuners doing wonderful stuff with it that will blow our minds. So like it or not, it's your decision. Nobody forces you to buy it. I am just curious to see how it will develop.
Who knows, if sales are going good, toyota has the permission to do a Supra "SZ-R" version. The evil sibling of an upcoming Z4M.
Sorry folks, my bad, i mean a Supra "RZ" variant..! Because the SZ-R was the beginner stage Supra.. not the King of the line up like RZ......
Luke_Z33 as an owner and knowledge of the Mk4 supra series, the SZ-R was NOT the beginner Supra. the SZ was, as the "R" variant you can find only had total production of less than 1% of the total amount of Mk4 Supra. Think of it as a light weight RZ without the twin turbo setup; strictly NA.
oh .. ^^ i'm honest i know the Supra line up just from gran turismo and in my country they're even rarer as unicorns! Thank you!
no worries, and I should clarify in case others read this; there were some can't remember the number exactly, but nearly 6500 SZ-Rs, but only 1439 selected with the optional, upgrades of, v161 getrag, torsen LSD and turbo brakes, which are standard on the RZ (v160 getrag on the RZ); thereby being the 1% I speak of.
It looks like it belogns in the outside lane of the M1, 2ft off the rear bumper of the car in front, headlights on and an irate photocopier toner salesman behind the wheel. It looks like it needs a 320D and a M badge on the back. Its dull and looks like something I'd expect from BMW (it screams Z4 with a dodgy kit to me) and not something special from Toyota. I am disappoint.
Except name, no relevance with supra
FR, IL6, 2 door + lots of potential.
Yeah nothing alike
I think its lined up to be a great car. Who cares if its not the fastest, I spend more time and money on a 127bhp ae86 than I do my daily golf gti with almost twice the power and much more refinement. Its not always about speed. I'm looking forward to seeing this one
Man, I'd love to see the new Toyota Supra against the new TVR Griffith! They both seem like such great cars! But I still cannot express my disappointment that the new Supra isn't available as a manual. I'm really hoping that Toyota make a manual version, or aftermarket tuners are able to swap in M3/M4 manual gearboxes!
It’s going to be a good car. The folks that hate on it truly doesn’t understand manufacturing. Without the collaboration with BWM, or any other car manufacturer, the project would’ve cost too much and would’ve put the price in a range beyond what it is now. I think the powertrain, although is BMW, will work perfectly fine; it’s both strong and robust and easily tunable. And with a factory time of 0-60 in 4.1 sec (roughly translating to a mid to high 12 sec 1/4 mile) it will be plenty fast. Too bad they couldn’t sell it closer to $40,000 instead.
Paddy hit the nail on the head. They would have been sooooo much better to not tease for so long with the FT-1. That concept was so awesome and the fact that they had running, driving versions filled us all with a hope that there was a truly badass tuner car on the horizon.
I hope Toyota has had the same foresight it had with the GT-86 and given it a lot of thought to the tuning prospects of the car. If it spawns an industry of improvement around it then that can only be a good thing for enthusiasts and for people with jobs in the tuning industry.
should of used the LC platform from Lexus and a twin turbo V8, which is in the works anyways. better to compete with the GTR and heavy hitters.
Pretty sure this Toyota version of the block is closed deck as opposed to open N series engines?
That is a major hurdle overcome to making bolt on power. I almost feel like the low advertised power is almost a benefit when coupled with the driveline potential. If there are warrantied workshop packages giving a buyer a new car + tuned 400ish at the wheel for what? $65k?
I'm okay with the exterior, I know they will water down the aesthetics from concept (FT-1) to production, borrowing power plants...fine. What I'm not happy with is the BMW interior. I have never been a fan of their interiors and as soon as I saw the butt plug of a shifter I was not impressed. I just think they could have done better with that aspect. One of the coolest things about the A80 was the kind of wrap around cockpit-feel of the interior. This looks like an fancy countertop with a built in screen. It also would have been nice if they left the active wing on it but I'm sure that would have bumped up the price point by a lot. Will be interesting to see how things play out. Guarantee the first one of these to show up at SEMA or TAS will have a 2JZ in it haha!
I really can't wait to see what the aftermarket world does with this one!
I'm sure it will be a good platform for modifying, atleast in those countries still willing to allow modifying to a large enough extent...........
Ugly car, weak power. Big disappointment.
Thw FT-1 concept was really great, but i think that by using the same chassi as the Z4, the proportions got a little messed up. Sure, a shorter wheelbase is excellent for dynamics, although Toyota wasn't very fortunate by adjusting the concept design to the new plataform. I totally agree with Paddy, people seem to compare a modified A80 to a stock A90, and there are alerady some renderings of the A90 with 20 inch TE37s and it looks so much better already. One thing that really "grinds my gears" though, are some of the promotional material made by Toyota. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S6NenolRZg&feature=youtu.be I mean, it is a halo car with a LOT of hype, and this is the best they can make? Cheap CG effects? Give us some real driving, something to get us r e a l l y excited. C'mon Toyota, please help us take this car more serious.
I'm really most curious about the handling package. I don't like BMW Z cars but you can't argue the setup so what have Toyota done that MUST be better than the BM offering or they'll get so much hate for doing a worse job on the only part they did.
Well, these pictures are a lot better than the ones provided by Toyota and other media. I'm actually less dissapointed about the looks now! Always planed to go for a test drive, even though I thought it looked like crap at first
I'm upset, I didn't like it.
Absolutely right about that humble pie seeing that the new Supra really is a solid piece of millenial sportscar... but there is one thing Toyota failed at:
The stock A80 came out swinging (maybe by pure coincidence rather than by design) at the RX7, (2dr) Skyline, S-15, mustang, base corvette, 911, (2dr) 3-series, and the like of “executive sports” cars. This A90 can’t even step in the ring with the new/old GTR (“35”), base C7/C8 corvettes, base 911 (and even still the “992” is down on power), and similarly priced Alfa/BMW M/AMG/Ford Mustangs (350/R for A90 with track package money). The A90 should be faster and better than all this ridiculous grumbling - mos def... but without a manual and maybe lighter weight, it’s just another “My first real sportscar”, def not the JGTC500 machine the A80 was when it debuted.
My main issue with this BM.. I mean Toyota, is how ugly it is. The good thing is that you can go to any BMW dealer and they will have parts for it and know how to work on it. Awesome, isn't it?!
BMW maybe USED to mage good sixes, but their current engines aren't reliable. Plus they're overcomplicated. Which for me is the main worry about this new Supra. The 2JZ was powerful AND reliable. Something that bmw fails to achieve in recent years. So while i'm not concerned about this not having a proper Toyota engine, I am concerned abiut it havibg an engine from a manufacturer that does't care about reliability any more than it is necessary to not break down during warranty time.
This is based on the N series engines that have been in cars for ages now. Are they really unreliable? Or is that what people say?
Not a BM fanboy, just look at the engine - it's decent + this Toyo version is closed deck - bring on the boost.
Eh. What's the point?
I’m fine with the idea of the Supra being new and not just a recreation
Auto box - fine
BMW 6 - fine
BMW chassis - fine
Looks - fine.... until you look at it side on and see how absurdly short the wheel base is. Huge front and rear overhangs make it look like one of my sons toy cars
Personally, I recall the Hot Version videos with Supra's pitted against GTRs as premiere class rivals. Nissan (while aesthetically not the best) has engineered their machine in line with its predecessors.
The Toyota seems more like a toy version of its predecessors.
I like the exterior styling. I like the engine choice. I'd like to buy one.
I do have legitimate issues with the bmw parts for the interior. That's the one thing I find unforgivable. not that Toyota Entune is preferable... but I'd like the buttons and switches to all feel toyota. That's what I'm paying for.
I'll drive one and hope that all the haters drive the prices down so I can buy one.
Even I was hoping for the 3JZ too
But BMW created the "3JZ" for Toyota so that the Supra maintains the straight six engine otherwise it would have been a V6
And whatever BMW gave to Toyota for the Supra, they tuned and adjusted it to where it feels like a Supra and makes it a better car
Hopefully the manual should arrive soon and can't wait for a 2JZ swap
I personally don't mind that it doesn't have a 3J, BMW make damn fine engines... but what I can't get over are the looks. To me at least, it looks great at some close-up angles like the ducktail or the last image. But the side profile - It looks like there's waaay too much car when it comes to the cab, it looks abnormally tall and high-up off the ground, and it looks as long as a 86/BR-Z/FRS. Maybe it's because I want it to look like the FT-1 more, but it just seems squished lengthwise and it just looks as if it's trying to be an FRS.
I think a lot of the new releases get a lot of undeserved scrutiny. The ft1 concept makes the styling of the production car underwhelming. And 50k starting doesnt help. But with the old cars reputation I felt Toyota should have pushed a bit more. But tbh you would never live up to the hype anyway so if this was right to them great. But you know its gonna be a great drive and it looks great on its own merit. I just hope it catches on. And Toyota makes some hot versions down the road. As far as no manual, times change. I understand the market doesnt call for it on a larger scale and hard to justify development. Personally I dont care, i just want the best configuration possible.
I can see the manual timing in my head. This is low volume so single production line. Make autos till they have surplus of at least the number of cars needed to cover the production gap required to retool and produce manuals. By this time they will be able to estimate manual numbers needed based on pre orders.
I like the car for what it is. Looks exciting, and I'm sure it'll be fun to drive.
However, if the engineering-decisions made while developing this car aren't enough of a giant "writing on the wall" in regards to future sports cars, then I don't know what is. Enjoy it while it lasts folks, but don't drown in your nostalgia.
As a person who has never driven the Supra, I can't say anything nor will I complain save for the no manual transmission thing. Every sports car should have a manual transmission option. But who knows if Toyota will add in the stick later.
If they do, great. If they don't, meh. I can't afford either MKIV or MKV (and 90% of the complainers cant either) and I probably wont be able too so I dont really care. It's already here and as always, the aftermarket will take care of any problems. Theres gonna be that one dude who manual swaps it anyway alongside a 2jz, so just sit tight
For myself, I feel there a few points that all the belly ache'r haven't touched on; this may be because lack of owner experience or that efficiency - and fuel consumption just are not high on the list for some. Though, when reviewing all aspects similar what you've essential touched on in the past - Paddy, it's the sum of it parts and balance is key. In lieu, efficiency is paramount for most design aspects and for the 2jz it was great for it's time and still can hold up; they may not have wanted to better it. The fuel efficiency for one is only minimally off from that of the new BMWi-6; do you know what that shows for engineering some many years ago and to only have 20-40 horsepower more!? It says Toyota had done it right; next...
1 main point is that Toyota is doing what other manufacturers are not, selecting world renown developers to joint in production of cars that will make an impact, still keeping toyota on the map and continuing to bring forth - validated by some - their expressions of joy. It shows their ability to adapt with an ever changing world, market and expectations of a throw away society. Though, this is not 1 issue alone, product, R&D come into play, being an engineer and my hands in managing purchase of products in a very large field of developers. I can say that Japan as a manufacturer is teetering past its heydays in terms of self manufactured production for cars specifically when compared to other world markets and is adapting to hold it's place; just look at all the processing plants, and factories moving cross-boarder and into the other corners of the earth. THIS has a factor on why some or a good portion of parts for vehicle such as the FRS/BRZ/86 and supra are shared. I'll digress and try and let the "indignant" expound on my quick point of this...lol
Secondly and i'll keep this short, Toyota as other manufacturers are doing, are creating point and shoot material objects. Re; the auto-tranny, etc. getting to know the younger generation though my profession, my own 6 nephews (ages 6-20) and sorted Millennials i've befriended, majority I speak to could not care less of a "cool" car not coming with a manual gearbox, because some can't even drive the darn thing if it was a manual! I think it may be for us born in the late 70's, 80' and maaaaaybe the very early 90's to accept we may be getting older. We are a generation of car enthusiasts alone that can probably all appreciate when the largest Japanese, and with a grain of salt American and German manufactures made some seriously great machines we could manipulate ourselves with little electrical intervention.
The true test for this generation of Supra, will be if we still talk about it in 5-10 years; I think it will fall in suit.
I can afford the Supra and I still think it's disappointing af. In fact, I was ready to buy one the minute it came out. The old Supra used to compete with the GTRs. Now it's not even in the same league.
The proportions are all off, small (86 sized), the interior is a straight copy and paste from BMW. I don't think it needs a 2JZ engine but using a vanilla BMW engine is disappointing. For close to $100k I expect something more special, not a re-skinned Z4.
Toyota elected to bring back their most iconic sports car and it’s nothing more than a rebadged bmw. All complaints about transmissions and horsepower aside, the Supra name is special to a lot of people who would like a new one and they’ve been delivered a z4. How many supra owners want a z4?
Aaaah... Refreshing words Paddy. Glad to feel I'm not alone on concepts like:
- Internet keyboard warrior: You won't buy it, probably you won't ever buy it. Chill, please.
- Internet keyboard warrior: are you for real when you expect Toyota to launch a brand new car, with a (mythical) 25 year old engine? Come on.
- Internet keyboard warrior: stop comparing a stock new Supra, with a custom old one that's worth 2 new ones.
I'm sure it'll be a great driving car. BMW has always excelled at bang-for-buck driving experience.
I'd just rather buy the BMW Z4 for this kind of money. It looks better, performs better, and has great design language and heritage for a fraction more of the cost.
Strip the luxuries off, put a stout 6-speed gearbox in it, price the 6 cyl base model at $35k to compete with the Nissan Z and you have a winner.
True, true... Just give boyz a certain time and you will see the thing is passing it's ancestor quite rapidly )
As for the design - look what The Kyza's already prototyped in his fantasy 3D-sketchin
The fact the Toyota already has 2 GT/grand touring platforms to choose from in the RC and LC and they decide to use outside partnerships makes no sense to me. Either would have made for a better Supra in terms of heritage and cost of production. Loose the luxury/weight, add performance and lower cost. I guess the BMW partnership was more lucrative than just using in house products. The bean counters win again.
The problem is that Toyota is taking a BMW, in parts, and BMW Z silhouette, and slapping a hallowed Toyota model name on it. The Supra is modern Toyota royalty. How many modern Toyotas are selling at MSRP premiums? It might be a fine car, in fact I am sure it will be. But it shouldn't be a "Supra".
the comments about "complainers can't afford it" are hilarious
I'm glad there's a new supra. Toyota didnt have to build it. The only thing that irks me is no manual. Then again, I wouldn't/won't ever buy one new so my opinion to Toyota is invalid lol
congrats toyota after long wait. i know new z4 shares same chassis and engine with new supra which are brilliant. but new supra is just over designed on exterior. to be honest in my humble opinion, it looks cumbersome and floppy, not as nimble and agile as new z4 which is a bit shame. lets say old supra is a symbol and benchmark in car industry back in the day but new one seems like it losts its soul. anyway big congrats for old supra having a offspring.
Paddy, I just can't understand you (or any other journo out there right now). I read your article 3 times and realized that either A) Toyota NA reached out to SH for this piece (if so you should disclose) or B) this blog isn't doing automotive enthusiasts any justice. We hold you to a higher regard because we're no longer the 18-20 year old fanboys, we're now much older, in our 30s if not 40s, and grew up with these cars. We're no longer just "keyboard warriors" or fanboys. We're the people who actually have the cash to buy these and the furor you're hearing is because COUNTLESS enthusiasts are up in arms about this. What is so hard to grasp? This Supra isn't a Supra, period. Why can't that be written? Platform sharing is a necessary manufacturing tactic that is common (we know this) but you DON'T expect it to be the case on what should be a Halo car. On B segment or C cars? Of course. At best case scenario this is a case of a marketing team not knowing what they're doing.
I couldn't agree more with Carlos, you got it precisely on the pin.
In a free world, I find myself in the luxury to disagree with this article.
Our disagreement with this new Z4/Supra thing, isn't because it's a bad product as such, of course not, I'm sure it is/will be brilliant, but the biggest disagreement lays in missing the mighty Supra heritage & legacy, and what this name has always stood for, it really missed the passionate rivalry between Supras of the day, and their counterparts Skylines, NSXs, RX7s and even the 911s and Corvettes, this new product misses all of that, and therefore, and for this sole reason, it's not competent enough to hold the Supra name.
Can you imagine a Nissan GTR based on the Mercedes SLC (SLK), or a Honda NSX based on the Audi TT, would that give those Japanese icons justice? of course not, that's almost blasphemous, and that’s exactly where Toyota had fallen short, having the legendary Supra to be based on the tiny Z4 is not right. Just rename the darn thing as a Celica or something, and organise the right team to work on the real Supra. Perhaps having it based on the RC/LC (It's a Toyota chassis) would be the best first step.
I understand the platform sharing I don't under stand them using a BMW though. I know the hips of the car are a throw bake to the MK4 supra but all I see is a older Z4, and I think hat has to do with the narrowness of the car. I think Toyota could have used the RC chassis from Lexus and made the car at least have a wider stance and come closer to the FT-01 Concept saving money to build their own or tweak a barrowed I6. Toyota has to be a little shy here because the fan boys all yelled that they wanted a small RWD platform with a manual, for which Toyota/Subaru delivered; but in the Mid-West where I am typing this from we see them few and far between so sales probably were not what the auto giant was thinking they were going to be when the internet was running wild with request. In the end only time will tell what the MK5 supra will become and whether we will see them ripping up drag stripes with 1K+ HP or tearing up road courses with insane handling. All I know is someone right now is already figuring out how to 2J swap it.
Also if the car loses the rear brake vents I think it would look wider and therefore a lot better.
I think Toyota took quite a few wrong turns with this one. Why take the Z4 platform to build up on? The Lexus LC would have suited this so much better, right? The proportions of the Z4 chassis simply don't work... like at all. The Supra was and should remain a GT (in my humble opinion).
The cost? Well, the JZA80 was only 15% cheaper than a 911 when new (in Europe) at more or less 56000€ back in the days. Keeping this ratio in 2019, compared to a new 911 (992), you would end up with a base price of 90000€. This goes to show that an MK4 was never really a cheap car, so why would the new Supra have to be? Most of the people who drive MK4s today wouldn't have been able to buy one new back in the '90s.
I agree that one shouldn't judge this car too early, but honestly, so far, nothing reminds me of a Supra and nothing makes me interested in this car ( be it look, engine, interior, aso. ). And I don't even compare it to my dream MK4. I only compare it to the first JZA80 I ever saw on the cover of a magazine.
After teasing enthousiasts with prototypes for years, Toyota has finally reveiled the brand new GR Supra (A90) earlier this week. Many fans claim the design is horrible, because the lines of the stunning FT-1 Prototype have been adjusted to fit the shorter wheelbase BMW Z4 chassis. This statement is true to an extent, but a healthy dose of lowering stretches the vehicle optically. I also converted the car to Targa specification (aka T-Top), which also helps with the proportions – at least when the targa roof is off. Advan Racing GT alloys with an inch more diameter than the stock wheels, and a Brembo big brake kit with carbon ceramic discs, prepare the car for the power upgrades surely offered by various tuning outlets soon. Toyota, please make a targa version of this sportscar!
Please let me know what you think about my concept in the comments.
Sebastian Motsch / virtualmodels.org
if you go to a japanese restaurant, then order suchi and get a hamburger, would you be happy ?? no ! ... we want a japanese car not a german thing
saying that toyota didn't have the means to make the supra them selves is completelty false, because they have patforms laying around, i m talking about the Lc RC... an engine you ask? how about the V6 biturbo of the LS. longstory short the supra has been created by the marketing departement and made by BMW not by TOYOTA and their engenieers
Still I think it’s better to just use2jz again.