86 & BRZ Five Years On: Success Or Failure?

In all of my years covering car culture and studying the automobile industry I can remember few cars that were as hyped-up and speculated about as much as the Toyota 86 and Subaru BRZ.

If you spent any time browsing automotive websites between 2008 and 2011 you should know exactly what I’m talking about.


From the earliest rumblings about a new collaboration between Subaru and Toyota on a lightweight, affordable sports car, we soaked up every rumor and piece of news that was out there – right up until the cars finally went on sale in 2012.


To think that it’s already been half a decade since these two machines hit the street really makes you wonder where the time went. It seems just yesterday we were poring over concept versions and speculating endlessly about what the production versions might be like.


So with that in mind, I thought it would be interesting to have a little discussion about what these cars have meant for us.

Five years on, have they lived up to the hype? Were they the breath of fresh air we were waiting for? Did Toyota and Subaru achieve what they set out to do?


I suppose that depends on who you ask. I think most people who understood the concept and followed along from the beginning were pretty satisfied with the final product. But others may have had their expectations set a little too high when it came to the performance stats.


Upon release, the 86 and BRZ didn’t blow people away with their straight line performance or their circuit lap times. But the lightweight, rear-drive chassis won over many with its handling characteristics and simple, driver-oriented nature. On the right road, it would be hard to find something more fun for any price.


The cars were responsive, tail happy and you can often drive them flat out without having to worry about going to jail. But it’s also understandable that some would be disappointed with the performance of the naturally aspirated boxer engine and its lack of low-end torque – especially in an era where just about everything is turbocharged.


Many of us hoped that Toyota – or more likely Subaru given its experience with boosted boxers – would release a factory turbocharged variant with more horsepower, but it appears that’s not going to happen with the current car.

And that brings me to one of the negatives – a failure to diversify the line-up.


I’ve had plenty of seat time in the 86/FR-S and BRZ and my biggest issue is not the power or performance, it’s the lack of practicality. Obviously they were never intended to be family cars, but for all intents and purposes these cars are two-seaters and that’s always going to limit their appeal. If you often carry more than one passenger, an 86 or BRZ as an only car was always going to be a tough sell.


And the cars aren’t without their competition. They may not have the same FR layout, but comparably priced performance machines like the the Volkswagen GTI, Ford Focus ST and Fiesta ST along with Subaru’s own WRX all offer much more practicality with a similar degree of fun. And if you are settled on a two-door rear-driver, the top-down Mazda MX-5 and the larger Camaro and Mustang also offer a lot of bang for buck.


In the last few years we’ve seen teasers of roadster Toyota 86s, STI BRZs and even a really cool shooting brake concept. But when you go to a dealership to actually buy one you are still only offered one body style and one engine choice.


Hypothetically speaking, my ideal variant of the 86 would be a sedan of some sort; something along the lines of the Toyota Altezza – rear-drive, affordable, and easily able to function as your only car while still putting a smile on your face. It’s been rumored a few times, but nothing has ever come of it. One can dream, right?


Now that’s not to take anything away from the 86 and BRZ as they are. If you can live with the two seats or have another car for daily use, you’ll be treated to an enthusiast car that’s unlike anything else on the market. Styling-wise I think the cars have aged well, and I still turn my head when I see one in traffic.


And of course if you aren’t satisfied with the looks or performance of your factory-spec 86 or BRZ there’s always the aftermarket, which brings me to the next chapter.


Before the cars were released five years ago, there was hope that the 86 and BRZ would mean big things for the aftermarket, and this is one area where the car has totally delivered.


From simple bolt-ons and cosmetic upgrades to turbo and supercharger kits and wide-body conversions that require one the bust out the saws – there is no shortage of options for 86 and BRZ owners. It’s simply a matter of how much you want to spend.


In the last five years we’ve seen 86s and BRZs used for everything from road racing and drifting to rally and drag racing. We’ve even seen dedicated VIP builds, and just about everything in between that and factory spec. For a decidedly niche car, its capability is incredibly broad.


We’ve also seen an incredible array of engines swapped into these cars, from LS V8s and big turbo 2JZs, to bespoke Synergy V8s and even an off-the-wall Ferrari 458 powerplant.


And while the idea of all of these engine-swapped BRZs and 86s is awesome, I still find them a little hard to relate to at this point. Simply because the cars are still too new and too expensive for most regular people to buy with the intention of ripping out the motor and dropping something else in. If you’re buying a car to swap the engine and rebuild from the ground up, a 25-year-old S13 seems a little more affordable.


But even leaving the original FA20 engine as a base, there’s no shortage of aftermarket options for more power, and that’s before you even get to the suspension and exterior parts. Whether it’s in Japan the US or any other number of countries, seeing the aftermarket reinvigorated is one of the greatest things about the release of the 86 and BRZ.


Are the 86 and BRZ perfect cars? Surely not. There’s no doubt room for improvement and ways to broaden the appeal, but as a modern reincarnation of the simple rear-drive Japanese coupes of the ’70s, ’80s and ’90s, I think they have very much delivered on their promise. They may be built for a specific niche, but I’m very glad that niche exists.


It’s up to the leaders at Subaru and Toyota to decide what’s going to become of their shared venture and whether they will follow it up with a second generation model. But I think we’ve all realized that the potential is there.

Whether you love them, hate them, or have no preference, I think we should all hope that the story of the Toyota 86 and Subaru BRZ is one that’s going to continue into the foreseeable future.

But those are just my thoughts. Now I’m curious to hear what your feelings on the 86 and BRZ are five years after they were released.

Mike Garrett
Instagram: japanifornia



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nothing to say about the 86, coz i never drive it once. but i would like to share mine, the 1/24 86 Rocket Bunny.


I think the cars were a success. They might not be fast but they're fun and I think that was the main goal. Plus Toyota knows the aftermarket support would take care of any bad points of the car. 

I just hope other manufacturers see the success of this car and it influences them to make a relatively cheap RWD. I dont know exact sales figures but I'm sure the 86/BRZ/FRS held its own in the sales department cause I know in Australia at least they were completely sold out straight away. I dont think the WRX or Focus was sold out here.

Gianluca FairladyZ

I think subaru should stop making concepts of the STi Version, they just should start selling them :)


Success, because there's only so many 240sx left on this rock.


> Hypothetically speaking, my ideal variant of the 86 would be a sedan of some sort; something along the lines of the Toyota Altezza – rear-drive, affordable, and easily able to function as your only car while still putting a smile on your face.

Unfortunately, this goes against everything that 86 is. To carry 4 adults in reasonable comfort, you'd need to stretch wheelbase a good 20-30 centimetres. With added metal of longer roof and floor and sills, and then even more metal to keep stiffness there, and even more metal of rear doors, you'd be adding 200 kilos. I think it's pretty obvious that means more power and more brakes become necessities, rather than nice-to-haves. So you end up with a generic 1.5-ton 250-hp, 4 seater for 30% higher price. Which, apart from losing 86 USP, means playing on BMW soil, where BMW has a great advantage of being seen as premium brand.


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I would say that they got what they aimed.
I thinks the 86/brz is and will always be the poorman's porsche. I hope toyota and subaru will stick to their guidelines, cheap, rwd, good handling, looks good and easy to modify. If they will stick to this rules, im sure the 86/brz will have its history like the porsche 911.
Fast forward 20 years from now, the current 86/brz will be like the aircooled 911's of porsche.
Sought after and collectible.

Omer (beercoozie)

Personally, I like the cars. Would I own one? No, because while Jalopnik proved that it can baby, I need something that will offer me a wee bit more room for my kids. Granted, nine times out of ten it's just me in my car, but I do need to be able to carry my kids around from time to time and I can't afford to have a "toy" car.

That said, I don't see a problem with the powerplant. Do the Toyobaru twins need more torque? Sure, but if you you just look at the numbers coming from the crank, the boxer engine is actually more powerful than the engine that was used in the 2005-2011 Civic Si, especially since it has more torque than that engine.
I just wish that people would stop saying these are bad cars, because they aren't.


One thing I love about this car is the owner community and seeing how everyone is personalizing their car, as well as sharing our experiences. Personally, I wanted to pay homage to the rich Toyota and Subaru heritage and so I modified my BRZ retro "old school" style.


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Toyota's idea to revive the 86 was brilliant.
The failure of it, was that it took a wrog path and was based on a totally wrong concept...
The thirsty generation that grew up with the AE86 Hachiroku couldnt stand the idea of a Subaru boxer NA angine for this legend....
Joint platforms and engines, modular chassis, shared parts for cost reduction... 
Manufacturers always see numbers and sales figures. 
But what those numbers were going to be if the Hachiroku was powered by a Toyota/GR/TRD 1.6litre turbo? You bet they would have been at least double.... It would resurrect tuning companies, continue legacies in drift, downhill Initial D, track...
The same mistake is being made as we speak with the much anticipated new Supra... What if it will be an engineering "miracle"....? Few care... Those who loved the Supra and grew up with it, would dream of a Toyota beast with a 3.0 twin turbo with 500+hp. Not a BMW powered oversized 86.....
Globalization, economy and all the modern era things have changed the soul of cars that whole generations grew up with...
Michael Papas


MiKe__Pap So what you're saying is they should've built a more expensive car and sell it at a loss, or make a more expensive car? There is a hell of a difference between developing a new 1.6 turbo rwd drivetrain or reusing an existing one.


Still happy with my '13. it's my DD so it's pretty much stock. No problems, no regrets, and no plans to sell it. I've traded, sold and bought other automotive toys since I've had this. It's not going anywhere.


I think it's been a great success for both companies, as well as the countless number of tuning companies that have developed parts for the platform. Plus, I think it's provided another cheap/affordable way for younger adults, like myself, to get into the car scene/community. If I ever have the money to buy another new car, the FR-S/GT86 will be my choice, more than likely. Until then I'll just play around with creating different fantasy versions of what I'd want a ZN6 to look like, on Forza Horizon (Both liveries are my own creations).


Overall I really like the car. I am very disappointed with how few of them I've seen on racetracks through, and other than the Subaru effort in Super GT, and some small work by Gazoo in the Japanese Rally Championship (along with a one-off test car built for rallying in England), I don't see any fsctory racing efforts behind this car. It seems like it would be the perfect platform to race in PWC TC or CTSCC ST classes against MX5s, Civics, Mustangs, 370Z. Or even as a GT4 car. But I'm guessing the gutless womder under the hood takes too much work to make competative against higher displacement cars, and it's too fat to keep up with an MX5. Shame really.


Personally people pump up this car waaaaaaay moe than it should be. Just because it looks a little sporty people swear they have a Mclaren F1- ladies and gentlemen- it just dosent work like that. Its overhyped, overrated, overpriced for the power your getting and underpowered- Almost EVERYTHING its this price range has more power- and thats a fact. They banked on looks but looks can only take you sooo far. Id rather get a Subaru WRX all day EVERY DAY.


Even though the GT86 and BRZ seem to be out of reach for most young people despite their "affordable" price, I think that in about 5-10 years time they'll have depreciated enough in value that youngsters will be snatching them up like crazy.


Mclaren F1 GTR Have you driven one? Sure, the 90's cars are faster in a straight line, but that's Not what the ToyoBaru twins were made for. Drive an 86/BRZ and be pleasantly surprised, it's addicting to drive and rev the piss out of all over the place. It's also a New car, not a near quarter century old car with old turbo technology, etc. The 86 and WRX are Very different cars, and for practicality I'd take a WRX 10/10 times unless I lived somewhere warm all year. But for fun, and the price, it's hard to match.


Ive owned both a 2021 wrx and an 05 wrx, and i now drive a 14 BRZ as my daily. The BRZ is hands down the more fun car, even in stock form. I personally think the joint venture was a great success. The two biggest issues i see with people about these cars are lack of power and why subaru was involved. 

!. there is plenty of power for the chassis in stock form. The factory tires would be tuffs of rubber on the ground if it had anymore. Its a snowball effect. More power equals more tire which equals more grip which equals more body roll which equals need for stiffer suspension which reduces ride qualtity and all that equals higher cost. So no your sub 30k rwd sporty manual car is in the mid to upper 30s-40s and even more unachievable for its younger market it was designed for. Lets not forget the car makes over 100hp per liter. Granted thats not record breaking but there are few sub 100k cars making that efficiency NA. 

2. If subaru was never involved this car would have never happened. Its been YEARS since toyota built a proper sports car. The cost for them alone to design build and manufacture this car would have put a serious strain on them. The twins use a subaru motor (toyota injection yes), subaru suspension, and majoorty of the parts are manufactured by subaru (not 100% on this). So subaru played a large part in this car coming to life. Their part was absolutely necessary for this car to have been made.


I bought mine because I wanted one car I wouldn't have to work on. Of course that has not kept me from modifying it but I'm trying to keep it mild.
Coming from a lifetime of driving small bore Italian cars, the need to run the engine at high rpm is not a problem for me. The only time I wish it had more power is at high elevations otherwise it's adequate for the street. Anymore and I'd just get into trouble.
The best mod I've made is having the ability to turn off all the electronic nannies. Its an affordable fun car for someone that's truly a driver.
Sure you can spend the same and get more power. I haven't tracked the BRZ but but I'd be surprised if a Mustang or Camaro could beat the twin on a handling track, based on my experience running against these cars.


I enjoyed the hell out of mine for ~20 months. I kept it a little longer than average so that's a good sign. Lowered, tuned, full exhaust + equal length header, intake, pulley, some other miscellany (tires, weight reduction). It was my first manual (at 34).




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I can't wait till they are 240sx priced, as a multiple Subaru owner I've wanted one for awhile


I was quite puzzled when the author deemed it unpractical for being a coupe? That's the appeal, if you want a practical 4 door then please do that. And don't compare the brz/frs to fwd cars or act like they are as good. We all have wanted cheap rwd to return and I think Subaru and Toyota have absolutely achieved this and then some.
People bitch about it not having a lot of power but how else was it going to be affordable to a wider market?


Besides, every car needs more power!


I think the car is fine as it is but, there should at least be, an option for a hardcore version. Like an STi or TRD version with upgraded wheels, tires, a turbo option, beefier transmission and some visual changes. Like ALL OTHER MANUFACTURERS on the planet do, make a good car and make a better version.



For car performance = failure
For car sales = success


I still dream to own one but even the very 1st ones are still too expensive and yes two seats is abit of a fail...but hey someday maybe I'll own one and still love it.


BrendanBerg Mclaren F1 GTR Oh dont get me wrong its not a Horrific car- actually im glad that they brought back the concept of the affordable sports coupe- but this i think just like anything new- it gets waaaaay pumped up and yes it is new BUT that still dosent necessarily make them exempt from having improvements. Now I AM interested in seeing where they take it from here- lets get some AWD or turbos under that hood-from the factory and NOW we are talking! I think that is what everyone is waiting for.


Ηι  Dmitry! Hope you are well buddy.
There are lots of powertrains in Toyota's / Lexus's current lineup that with few simple modifications they could be used lowering the cost...


I think one of the biggest disappointments of the ZN6 is that as it was being introduced many manufacturers appeared to get shook at the idea of clamoring onto the affordable sports car market, but no one has seemed to deliver in ways of competition. The only exception has been Mazda's ND, but that has been a thriving lineage since the 90's. The IDx died in it's deathbed and Nissan hasn't ventured any plans for an affordable Z or S chassis. For the ZN6 models themselves, they are definitely a success, for what was offered. However, I am in the camp wishing there were more variants and engine and tuning packages, but for what it was worth, it did just what it set out to do. I only wish it aimed a little higher and others were rallied to this movement.


I didn't bought it directly in 2012 because I was  hoping for either a cab' version or a Nissan Idx.
Two years ago, I decided that I've been enough waited so I bought one and I didn't regret it at all since then ( I don't have a family yet so it's enough practical for me.)
I must admit though that if the WRX (non STI) was available in Europe, I may have chosen the more pratical four doors WRX.
In some way it remember me the sensation that I had with my old mini :
Far from being the best (or powerfull or fastest) but damn on the right roads it gives so much fun within legal limits (or nearly :p ).
The only thing that really bother me is that torque dip between 3500-4500 rpm  but for the rest it perfectly suits my needs.


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The 86 was always a blank canvas on which to create upon. At it's base, it's a sporty, tight little package that won't surprise anyone off the line. If you look deeper, Toyota/Subaru laid the groundwork for the aftermarket to step in and turn this little coupe into a barnstormer: plenty of room in the engine bay for forced induction, odd things like oversized brake master cylinders and clutch-assist springs, easily accessible suspension pieces, etc. It was really up to the car's owner to pick out the direction he wanted the car to go. Drift car? Time trials? Drag race? Hard parking? All you had to do was line up the parts and swap them in, no heavy welding or frame bending required. The 86 succeeds in ways that even Toyota & Subaru aren't aware: it gave young drivers the ability to create their dream car in the manner of their choosing, at a budget that didn't seem ridiculous.


I don't think you can question the success of these cars.


Fully agree, it's a great base platform from which to build and that's how they intended it. It was made for the diy guys and tuners. If you want to just buy a fast car you can


JonathanGauthier Wow that looks fantastic! Never seen this approach


By comparing it to high performance cars of the 1990s is missing the point entirely. The cars you mentioned stickered north of $40k then, and would easily be north of $50k with inflation and today's economic climate. Where exactly do you think the Toyota Supra/BMW Z5 twins are going to price? When the USA finally for the GTR in the form of the R35, it was north of $70k, and now cracks $100k.

"Over hyped" in that the straight-line speed doesn't match the handling? I'll concede that. But if we take things back to the 1990s again, performance was so much more than 0-60times. How a car drove, how it made you feel, was as, if not more important. In a day when everything is turbo-charged and the internet has reduced opinions to quantifiable performance metrics, we've lost the point of these types of cars.

Much like Dino, I too wish they diversified the 86/BRZ portfolio: A convertible and a shooting-brake would have been great additions. That being said, from a utility standpoint, if it were a hatch from the beginning, like the original AE86, that would have solved quite a bit.

Combine a hatch with modern stiffness, and a collection of STI/TRD branded stiffening bits, then let the aftermarket handle the turbocharging and supercharging.


I think the problem is that, even at a lower price point, it still isn't cheap enough for most people to own it as the weekend driver -- keeping a second car as a daily. This is a problem in itself since you'd need to fill the gaps the BRZ/FRS doesn't fill. Fuel economy, seating, and cargo space. This leads to needing a car that is actually kind of pricey. And if you're an enthusiast (as the FRS is obviously targeting) you won't want your daily to be a total bore either, so you'll want it to be peppy and fun as well.
Basically, the car doesn't deliver on the performance front without modification, which makes it inferior as a daily to something like an Ecoboost Mustang, Focus ST, WRX, and even a Golf GTI. And all of those can be had for similar prices! So the market for the BRZ suddenly shrinks to people without kids, who are making decent money -- but not a lot, and who are young enough to enjoy a sports coupe as a daily.


First off;

debuting a car in concept form in 2008, and not delivering said car until 2012 - well - there's that - I think that killed the potential

but more importantly, the housing crisis and economic collapse of 2008, and then the "unintended acceleration issue" with the Prius clouded EVERYTHING that was to ever come of this car

by the time the car finally dropped, my personal hype for it had died down so much, I got of sick of telling people how old it was - 4 years old on arrival - then the power was never there (for american tastes) but I never thought the point of the car was power

I think the coupe design, leading one to believe those back seats could be used by anyone but a paraplegic was laughable

anyone remember the diagram they used (see attached)?? it took me actually sitting in one to realize I fit in the FRONT seat - never bothered to get in back - I'm 6ft1 - c'mon

but when in the market for a commuter, it will certainly be THE ONE


Toyota cut a lot of corners to save costs, i really would hate to think what the car would be like if further cuts were made, just because "not enough" young people can buy them.
I think people shoild be happy with the resale of the 86/BRZ not complain that others cant afford it. Theyre common enough as it is.


MPistol I don't agree with everything you said, but LOL at the picture.


louisFCO Yeah this car is much more inline with a Miata, Celica, AE86 or 240SX than a Supra or Z. And yes I do hope that shooting brake sometime sees the light of day.


Matt_Redondo Good points, and I'm sure that stuff will only get bigger as the cars get older and cheaper.


IRONWOLF RD Ugh, I've blocked the whole IDx thing from my mind as its so disappointing to think about haha.


DailyDose28 Plenty of time in the future!


MTDatsun You've hit the nail on the head. The closest rival is the MX-5 - another car which foregoes straight line performance and practicality for pure driving dynamics. Nothing wrong with that, it's just always going to be a niche market to buy a brand new car for that. It's one thing to have a 2,500 dollar sports car to mess around with on weekends and another have a 25,000 dollar one.


CodyRinaudo I'd actually be really curious to see an age breakdown for FR-S and BRZ buyers.


nightrift97 Yep once they hit the 10,000 and under range there's gonna be a lot more people doing crazy stuff with them.


Twitch_6 There's actually some very popular 86 one-make races in Japan with nearly stock, identically prepared cars going at it. Looks like a whole lot of fun.


JonathanGauthier Very nice! Love the interior. Where you are located? Shoot me an email when you get a chance. Mike (at) Speedhunters.com


Practicality is important though to many who can afford a new car. 1-2 more inches top in the rear and I'd have one in my drive instead of a 500 Abarth (hardly roomy, but enough for a 8yr old to be carted off to school).

The long public road to production (see Acura/Honda NSX, Lexus LF-A) didn't help. It was almost old news when it was news.

The relatively conservative styling (compared to the concepts) has helped it age well. Put something out thats moves the game on and it ages very quickly (see 1st Gen Audi TT)


DmitryKovalenko Hmm, I think a 250ish horsepower rear-drive sedan that weighs 3,000 lbs or less would be awesome in the sub 30,000 range.


I really like them and think of them a success, whilst I definitely see more MX5s on the road, that only adds to making these more special, I'm just waiting for second hand prices to come right down so I can actually have one haha! (broke ass mofo!) I don't have the need for practicality to be honest, if the boot opens and can fit 4/5 bags of shopping that's good enough for me, I only carry more than one person in the car maybe once a year, twice tops, joys of having friends with bigger cars, let them endure the pain of a slow ass econo-sedan-thing.


I'm about to enter my 4th year of owning one.
From me that says quite a lot about my opinion of the 86, I normally start getting cold feet around the two year mark of owning a car and while yes there's been times when I've given it some thought I can confidently say that I have no plans to move on.
A lot of what people say is true. A taxi could embarrass me in a stop light drag (No that's never happened. Honest. Please don't ask)
When friends ask for a lift I laugh and tell them they're welcome to try, it's not me that has to fold myself into the back seat.
But for me it's all about the fun. That's what I crave most in a car.
I've owned a few different Japanese cars from the 70s and I've been fortunate enough to drive a few more and this is the first modern car that I've experienced that I think captures the essence of what made those early cars special.
Light, affordable, not powerful but lively and engaging and fun.
It also helps that in the 86 the steering is well weighted and mechanical feeling, the clutch is if I'm honest a little agricultural and the brakes while good do require a bit more boot than what's normal these days.
I can't help that those traits were all somewhat deliberate additions to try create that driving experience.


I've had mine for a little over a year now.  Bought it used and I have really enjoyed the car.  It isn't without faults but no car is perfect.  A simple tune from Open Flash Tablet made the car feel the way it should have off the showroom floor.  For the price, there really isn't a more dynamic driving experience.  No, you won't win very many drag races but if you are buying the car to do that, you bought it for the wrong reasons.  Fly up a canyon and you quickly discover what the car is all about.


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I like it. I figured more makers would follow suit but alas.


I've been an owner since the start of 2014. Eagerly watched the concepts for 3 years, watched them on the road for 2 years and finally got my own. I've enjoyed my car in various states of mild modifications over the years. Exhaust, intake and manifold spacers, each modification changed the car but it wasn't until recently when I reverted back to stock (in preparation of sale) that I realised how much I enjoyed the car in its stock form. Tyres were the best investment I made for the car and while driving it around completely stock and a set of Bridgestone RE003's at the moment it almost makes me rethink my plans to upgrade. I fell in love with the car when I first saw the concept, my feelings towards the car hasn't changed, my requirements in regards to practicality have.


I'm of the mind set that I probably wouldn't buy one, still think it should have more power (for goodness sake, I know it's about the car as a package, but the 1/4 and 0-60 are the same as a '93 Prelude...) but because of it's size, well executed (for a new car) interior, and lovely lovely light weight, I celebrate and am happy that it's being made.


Think you covered all bases regarding the issues of the 86 platform, spoken like a true auto otaku ;) It's too bad the idx was killed, a little competition might have driven subaru/toyota to up the power.  They say they putting in a turbo would upset the low cog because of having to mount them on the bottom, but we all know STI could find a way if they wanted to.  The aftermarket did.  With all that said, I still plan to eventually buy one and keep my current car as a daily.


johnbezt Fully agree. I thought for sure that with the PR Boost and overall popularity of the GT86/BRZ/FRS chassis, surely we'd be seeing many other OEM's mixing up a batch of this recipe.

But instead... Nismo Juke, 1.5 Ton Civic Type-R, RX-8 gone as well as the Evo ending production.

At least Subaru haven't lost touch with the EndGame here.


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Here in Germany we have also a "one-make" GT86 Series.
It's included in the Nürburgring VLN series.


Speaking of Forza...
Speedhunters steals my Forza 4 livery for their Sema build xD
Not really but they looked very similar, we both get inspired by Toyotas old racing livery.
btw. Nice liverys


I love mine!


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Mclaren F1 GTR BrendanBerg His question stands: Have you ever driven one?
I have - leased one for 3 years, and test drove the new WRX as a potential replacement.
The WRX, powerful and practical as it was, left me cold.
Both my wife and I would love to get another BRZ (this time, to own) - it was that good.


Thanks, I appreciate the kind words. Hopefully one day, I can turn it into some kind of freelance work (or a career with one particular company), perhaps desiging for various tuning companies or whatever.
But for now, it's just a hobby that I really do enjoy a lot.


I leased a 2013 BRZ for 3 years and regretted it tremendously. 
Here's why:
1) Mileage limits built in to the lease agreement (I ended up 15,000km over my limit); the car encourages you to take the long route, and to go out for drives for no reason
2) I spent a year commuting to school out of town on a weekly basis, so that I spent way too much time doing straightlines in it (don't need a BRZ for highway miles)
3) The last year that I had it, we didn't get much snow in Southern Ontario. Happiness is turning traction control off in an empty parking lot covered with fresh powder

This was a car of firsts for me: first track day (ended up going to a few, and loving the experience), first modifications, first DIY work, etc.
It left such an impression on my wife and I, that we want to get another (maybe a used a 2017), this time, to own for good.

A few things:
For people of average height or lower, it is definitely feasible (though not necessarily comfortable) to put 4 people and luggage in the car. I picked up my family from the airport in the car once (I'm 5' 9, and the passengers were 5' 8, 5' 6 and 5' 4 respectively), with 2 decent-sized suitcases in the back (although I had to empty out my trunk first).
Car is also fantastic in winter - drove it with nannies off most of the time (even in snow and ice) because it was even more predictable that way.


I know of the GT86 one make series...they run one on New Zealand as well. Good fun to watch.
But what I am referring to is GT86s competing against other platforms, not single make races. We have yet to see a race series where a GT86 takes on the likes of an MX5, Mustang, 1-Series, 2-Series, Accord, Civic, 370Z, etc.
The only series where there is anything resembling a 86 chassis competing against other makes is the BRZ in Super GT, and despite massive factory effort, has basically been a failure.


I dig the idea of it being a fun simple FR driver's car & a blank canvass ... my issue with the 86 is it's just not good-looking (my opinion, obvs). 

Understyled in the overall shape and overstyled in the details (eg front & rear lights etc). Just compare with the Hatchi: Hatch has simple direct forms while also being instantly recognisable and full of character; simultaneously timeless and of-its-time; details and overall form work in harmony.

I'm not saying they should have done a Mini One retro-job on the Hatchi's design language - although that might have been interesting to see - but they could have come up with something more in-tune with the Hatchi's design philosophy ie more sporty compact than pocket sportscar. Why not give it better back seats (Hatchi had much better back seats and it was 17cm shorter on the wheelbase)? In fact why not offer a hatchback option (so that I could take it surfing)??


Five years on and I am still ambivalent about the 86/BRZ. I think it is a lovely proportioned car, but I have disdain for the lack of development of such a promising chassis by both Toyota and Subaru. I appreciate the massive aftermarket, but ultimately, I find the continued mediocre support from the cars' makers to be a big disappointment. 

That's in addition to the performance issues that the car has. Is the 86/BRZ a very fun car to drive? Absolutely. And with sticky tires on a bog-standard car, you can get - a lot - of traction for the money, because frankly, it doesn't have enough grunt to turn R-Comps into dust. But you still aren't seeing 86s/BRZs winning podiums regularly at major levels of autosports outside of the occasional drifting venue. Can they be autocrossed? You bet! Can they be rallied? You bet. Can they be club raced? Absolutely. But not with the same success as a Miata/MX5. Which tells you almost everything you need to know about the actual success of the platform. - And it is partly the problem with the power (the lack of it) and the lack of full-on development by the OEMs. 

So in the end, I guess to my mind the 86/BRZ is a great car in concept. With good execution and strong market reception. But as an all-in successful platform, I think it could be developed further and should be. It has not achieved the level of success that Mazda has with the MX5, albeit it has had 1/5th of the time of the market as the MX5 has. I'd love to see the OEMs unleash the TRD/STI engineers on the car and really let them build a road-racing rocket that could be built. Until then, it will be a car mainly for people who like the occasional spirited drive, but don't care about being competitive. And that is totally fine - I get the appeal of that - for sure. But I also understand that if you want long-term success you have to push for it and the best way is to be competitive.


Mike Garrett CodyRinaudo http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2825114

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I'd like to also add in, that the hype and gossip we ate up didn't stop with the production car's release. Remember the first few years following suit. Even mention the BRZ to anyone and the Sti turbo concept hype would come out of the woodwork. A slight tease and the internet would go crazy!
The idea of the oem development and the car being a base or platform for the buyer to modify. This is one area where the car falls short. There is a ton of aftermarket support however, the base parts themselves, particularly the drive train are so vastly under developed with the tuner in mind. Without forced induction there is simply little room to grow with these cars. Spending thousands on an intake, exhaust, header and an aggressive tune netting 20hp is pretty much it (generally speaking.) Add in boost and you start exceeding the factory engine and transmissions durability far too quickly. Even currently there is very few options for creating a transmissions that will take 350+whp and track abuse.
Lastly the 86's resell value should be a great indicator of it's success. In less than 3 years we started seeing these cars selling for under a 15k price tag.
I've had mine since '13 and I don't regret it. But it is a bit hard to swallow eveything when it is laid out infront of you and the wallet is still hungry. Not that any of it matters when your smile is pokeing through out behind the wheel...


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I love how Toyota/Subaru gave us what was considered an anomaly in 1999-2000 similar to a certain vehicle with the moniker of Type R, identical specs and 100hp per liter.  Just like you won't see Honda Motor Company producing any higher HP variants, it won't happen for this one.  Simply because they don't have to, its like being a Cowboys fan, no matter how bad they lose, the support doesn't stop haha Jerry Jones isn't forced to create a dynasty cause the tickets are always flying off the charts.  This vehicle is a 10-15 year platform, period.  They will continue to appear at SEMA, car shows, tracks, etc because you cannot beat that flexibility, the aftermarket loves them!  How many GTIs, Miatas, Focus etc etc hold this much flexibility in a platform?  Ill tell you what you'll find on those platforms; specific niches, hard to find parts and pricier maintenance. Ask me how I know, previous vehicle list(Evo 4, Saturn Ion Redline, T5 Turbo Volvo S40).  Us "tuners" in general are realistically a small blip on the radar.  I promise you, now matter how quick I thought I was, there was always a little backyard built Honda trolling the streets.  The other competitors edge the vehicle out by a bit more in the power department and it stops there.  The tuning potential is unsurpassed in a platform this new outside of a GTR(2009), and if your on this site....you're not here to look at stock vehicles.  Period.

Secondly, so many individuals forget that this is a worldly vehicle and too many times us Americans get wrapped up in our land of straight line and open roadways that we enjoy on the regular so everything goes back to HP, which hellcats make you wonder "can you really handle it?"  90% of you will not turn the electronics off and enter an apex at full throttle looking to have some fun in this 200hp vehicle, I promise.  I agree, if you want to fulfill the stop light and on ramp fling, yes, in stock form, she's not for you.  But bolting on a simple turbo kit and taking about M4s....that's too easy.  More cabin space comfort than a C7 corvette stingray and 400hp is a sneeze on the FA/4U boxer engine.  The engine responds extremely well to forced induction(Once again, see honda chapter).  

Lastly, I bought the vehicle as a gentleman in my 30s who simply missed shifting a manual and needed to save gas from my 6.2L E63 AMG with my Integra being a near track car project & I liked all the rocket bunny renditions.  Obviously I'm going to be a tad let down after a quarter mile spurt in the 15's in the BRZ jumping out of my AMG but I'd be lying if I said this little thing doesn't put a smile on my face.  So it's a cool daily, I do want more, the best thing about it is when I'm ready, it'll be there.  Starting on a 240 type project etc that's been unmolested, good luck to you and your bank account.  I'm excited to see where these go, I'm predicting, just as the Honda scene, the flame will stay lit for a long while then when it sizzles, all of the clean renditions will still be here and the community will be tad more performance focused.  Hell, I'd even grab another for the right price, i'm here for the ride.  Admit it, you still double take when you see a clean one on the open roadway, just like I did. :)


Ive been patiently waiting for them to turn them into Toyotas from scions which they have. Being a owner of over 13 ae86 models I know what the future holds for the rwd platform. It's an enthuisist dream come true.


BrendanBerg Mclaren F1 GTR

I noticed something about people who like/gush this car.  When you mention its obvious horsepower deficit compared to other sports cars, they instinctively go to their stand by argument of: "that's not what the car was meant for."
Well, if that's not what the car was meant for, then Toyota/Subaru should NOT have marketed it as a "sports" car.
If you can not at least a little bit cover all the bases of speed, acceleration, and handling then why are you calling it a "sports" car.  You should just say that it's a commuter with "sporty" aspirations.  I test drove the FR-S, and even though it was an automatic, you could not coax any acceleration out of the thing; it's as if you had to stand on the accelerator to get any sort of punt in accelerating.  
My final point is: If a mom with her kids and groceries in a CAMRY can hand your car it's ass at a traffic light; it's NOT a sports car.


I think the spam bots have made a return.