Isn’t it sad? If you’re anything like me you’ll look at the opening shot above and wonder how long it will be before the manual transmission becomes extinct in new cars. We often concentrate only on the evolution of the internal combustion engine, but the transmission has gone through just as much development over the decades. It’s something I’ve often thought about, and why I decided to put this post together.
I’m not attempting to do anything other than get you guys thinking about gearboxes and how they are continuing to evolve, and hopefully hear your thoughts on the subject. On a daily basis I have been using manual, automatic and dual-clutch transmissions for quite a few years (well, not the dual-clutch anymore since the 335i was replaced by the 435i – aka Project Drop Top), and this array of drive-channeling methods has always made me think…
During the first part of the last century, transmissions could be described as crude and agricultural at best. A good example is chain drive, which takes the motorcycle approach and explores it further. I can’t even imagine the slack, noise and lack of grace that would come from a setup similar to what was used in a car like the 1920 GN Vitesse pictured above.
Ever heard of friction disc drive? When I first discovered this was actually employed in some cars (like the Nakano Motors Sandal kei car in the video above) right up until the mid ’50s, it kind of blew me away. It’s an interesting system where by the engine’s rotational force is transferred through a big spinning disc onto another disc which rubs against it and is moved from its outside diameter (slow speed) towards the inner part. Due to simple physics the velocity increases, and therefore so to is the speed transferred to the driven wheels. But the sheer wear and inefficiencies due to slip weren’t going to make this the drive system adopted by the mainstream, that’s for sure! Still, it’s interesting to see the origins of it all.
The good old manual gearbox always proved a safe and relatively simple way to channel drive to the wheels, and in Europe at least it’s always been the most commonly used transmission type. Growing up between Italy and the UK, it’s all I was exposed to. Apart from high-end luxury cars with autos, people shuffled through cogs and released drive via a clutch pedal – and it’s still that way for a lot of people.
Be it front-engine and front-wheel drive or any other type of layout, the manual transmission has always been at the center of making the driver feel in total control. Manual gearboxes have a quality that just can’t be matched by any self-shifting alternative that’s ever been conceived.
But there’s good and bad here too. Some stick shifts are truly appalling, and I’m not even talking about those fitted to older cars. I’ve driven quite a few cars from the ’60s and ’70s, and while the throw between gears and the overall feeling of their manual gearboxes was a tad vague, they did the job. A few years ago while working with a Japanese magazine I was given a manual gearbox equipped Mercedes SLK to drive. I thought that after 100-plus years of evolution it would be hard to screw up something so simple as a manual transmission, but I was wrong. It was horribly light, extremely long in the throw and provided zero feedback. Even the clutch pedal was over-assisted and had a biting point that was hard to gauge. I remember thinking that Mercedes should definitely stick to automatics.
On the other hand we have Porsche – one of the manufacturers that are slowly but surely moving away from the manual. The 991 Turbo and GT3 don’t have a manual option, yet Porsche developed the only 7-speed manual transmission as an option for the Carrera 2/4/S. Its manuals are among some of the best out there too – crisp and precise with well-matched clutch pedal bite and progression. Porsche’s argument is that cars like the Turbo and GT3 have such manic power delivery that it would be hard to match the shift speeds their latest generation dual-clutch gearboxes achieve. Absolutely true, but then again shift speeds and driving pleasure aren’t necessarily things that go hand in hand. When I drive my GT-R I get more satisfaction from nailing a perfect heel-and-toe downshift than I do from ramming the next gear in as fast as I can. At least give people the choice. Would that be too hard?
And talking about the R34 GT-R or any other older performance car out there, these are the cars that you and I still lust over, and they’re all manuals. Nothing feels as special as a tuned Japanese car from the ’90s sporting a nicely-weighted multi-plate clutch and a good old fashioned manual transmission. When I’m old and wrinkly I can see myself preaching this sort of thing to my grandkids, who by then will probably be used to direct-drive electric cars. I’ll probably tell them that epitome of perfecting a tuning car was forking out for an aftermarket sequential transmission, totally mechanical in operation and by far the most satisfying type of transmission out there.
But let’s get back to what’s happening today, because I find it interesting how things are currently developing. On one side you have the Germans and a lot of other European manufacturers that are equipping all sorts of cars with dual-clutch transmissions. It makes total sense, as this is a true development of the transmission and a step forward that mates the feel of an automatic with the layout of a manual. DCTs are fast, efficient, have a good feel and when used manually provide feedback and satisfaction.
Meanwhile, in Japan, where you would expect technology to really be pushed to extremes, things have really gone down the toilet. I’m not going to beat around the bush here – I really hate what Japanese manufacturers are doing right now by equipping an ever-increasing number of their cars with the much-dreaded Continuously Variable Transmission. The CVT is akin to the plague in automotive terms; it sucks the soul and emotion out of any engine and does so with a monotonous, uninspiring and plainly annoying soundtrack. But manufacturers that have adopted this transmission technology will debate that CVTs provide more fuel efficiency as they keep the engine at its lowest RPM possible at any given speed. While that may be true, I’m of the opinion that a dual-clutch or new-generation automatic would have no issues in matching or bettering the efficiency of a CVT. Truer to the point, CVTs are cheap. But built in enough numbers, again a dual-clutch or auto could be just as affordable. Think about it – the entire Subaru line-up now runs CVTs (Impreza WRXs and STIs excluded thankfully), as do a great deal of the vehicles offered by Honda, Nissan and Toyota. If you understand anything about cars you would look away and go to another manufacturer, but if you see cars as metal boxes that simply transport you from point A to point B, you wouldn’t even know the difference. That’s the type of customer they are targeting with CVTs.
At the beginning of the year when I traded in the 335i for the 435i I was a bit sad. I had spent five years enjoying the 7-speed dual-clutch gearbox in the E93, using it almost exclusively in its manual mode, which gave me enough satisfaction while driving that sort of car in a big city like Tokyo. It had the perfect mix of a sporty feel with machine gun fast up-changes and down-changes that would throw a crackle from the exhaust at every actuation of the paddle. Once I knew the F33 would be equipped with the new ZF 8-speed torque converter, I was pretty disappointed. But that disappeared the first time I drove the car and put it into manual mode. It was pleasantly surprised that it shifted at dual-clutch speed and responded instantly to every pull of the paddle. I was sold. I’m not at all surprised that this transmission is now being fitted in many high-end performance cars.
ZF’s line-up of new-gen transmissions also include a 9-speed auto for front-engine, front-wheel drive applications, and it’s all geared towards lowering fuel consumption and emission without giving away the feel of the car.
Then there’s those hybrids. I apologise if I need to use that word on Speedhunters, but it’s another example of how the Japanese manufacturers make excuses for themselves so that they can go the (cheaper) CVT route. Take Toyota for example; every single hybrid car it makes (including the Lexus range too) runs a CVT. It’s cheaper and easier to add a motor onto a direct-drive driveline than it is to think of a better feeling solution for the driver. That’s why when you drive a Prius or a Lexus LS600h they both have the exact same feel – that unnatural engine tone fixing itself to high RPM under acceleration and then dropping close to idle as you reach cruising speed. The last time I checked, cars and scooters didn’t or shouldn’t have the same type of transmissions!
Above is a picture of ZF’s new 8-speed hybrid transmission. With this unit you get the same feel and fast shifts of the lockable clutch-type model it’s based on, but with the added boost of an electric motor positioned around the torque converter. Done. No CVTs in sight!
We could argue for a long time about this, but at the end of the day the ‘right’ transmission is largely dependent on the type of car you are talking about, its use, and probably most of all – its driver. Sure, more and more people prefer the self-shifting options out there, and that’s fine, but manufacturers must understand that for however small of a market, offering a manual will work for them rather than against. Enthusiasts are a picky bunch, but keep them happy and they’ll stay loyal.
Let me know what you all think in the comments section below. I’m hoping this post will turn into a discussion piece with a lot of you guys adding your own input.
Dino Dalle Carbonare
Instagram: speedhunters_dino
dino@speedhunters.com
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Saddens me to say but the WRX is available with a CVT in Australia.
@JD I just checked, here in Japan too! Speechless!
I had
an Altima with the CVT, now I have a Cayman with a 6 speed manual, I like both
for the purpose they serve. The Altima was boring, but boring is OK if you are
just driving to work, or taking kids to school, I have no intentions to drift,
or have fire spitting downshifts when taking kids to school, or drive to the
grocery, I have to say there are those moments where you want the car to do
your work, so you have time to think about other matters. But when adrenaline
rises, and the real free me comes to sight, I surely love, absolutely adore the
manual, and I'm saddened by the fact that they may go way, the good thing is, I
think they won’t.
...just started the SMG to manual conversion on my e46 m3
malymato
I heard terrible things about SMG, I wish speedhunters_dino had said something about them.
How bad where they in terms of feel, and reliability
As a staunch manual guy, I highly agree that manufacturers should offer manual transmission for their highest spec and top models. Seriously grinds my gears (pun intended. :p) when they keep saying "most of our customers are buying auto now, so we will drop manual from the line-up".
Drivers, too, need to stop being lazy. I've known people who prefers manual but drives auto because " city driving bro. Stop-start traffic is no good for the left leg". For God's sake, driving a manual is a way of life, not a chore!
End of my rant and opinion.
Mahfoodh
...im aware of its questionable reputation, but i cant complain about the reliability even after 15years ...absolutely trouble free so far
...i have never (really) used the automatic mode, always using the shifter stick in order to get closer to manual feel ...i just miss the third pedal, absolute control over clutch and the feeling of being busy
Could talk about this for hours but I'll keep my opinion short; I hate anything that lacks a clutch pedal lol.
Growing up in the middle of Europe, I think I was 20-21 when I had my first encounter with an auto-box car. As I grew older, I realised that automatic boxes have their place (shitty... I mean city-boxes and long distance, high hp/torque cruisers), but as the "enthusiast driving" goes... Nothing beats manual.
By the way - I currently own a NA Miata, and GOD do they have one of the best stock transmissions I've ever used. Short, crisp, it just feels right. Mated with a light car and a high-revving engine... Deeeeelish!
honestly, i dont need a clutch pedal if im in a fwd car.. whats that good for, if you kick it, and nothing happens?
keep it in the driftcars, and let normal people forget clutches. the new dsg's are always faster than any human, anyway.
I'm a massive manual fan, and short of owning a supercar I image all my fun cars will always have three pedals. When they stop making new cars with 3 pedals, I'll stop buying new cars.
BUT, that doesn't mean I'd rule out owning something Auto/DCT for day-to-day driving. For example, I drive a van for work, as funny as it is to heel-toe a 2ton van, I think the ability to just operate the brake to crawl in traffic would be nice. Likewise my wife, who does a long commute for work with heavy traffic, something DCT would perfectly suit her needs. If I had only one car, I think I'd always make the sacrifice and stay Manual, but in a multi vehicle household I'd happy have both.
The problem begins when the manufacturers start to make the decisions for you. And they start making enjoyable cars, with not-so-enjoyable gearboxes. They need to realise that fun cars aren't supposed to be practical, and the people buying them, aren't buying them for their perfection, they're buying them for their compromises! Noisy, uncomfortable, hard work... these are what separate your fun car from your dailly mile cruncher. If you make everything quite, comfortable and easy to drive, you start to diminish their whole raison d'étre.
deleted_82067014_Abezzegh87 your transmission must hate you, changing gears without a clutch tut tut.
Nah I know what you mean, you don't need a manual transmission in your commuter but I drive a FWD manual mazda 6 and I wouldn't have it any other way. The look my friends give me when I shift up or down or impressed by the fact that I can do it at because mojarity drive auto's, surpasess any practicality.
Robo_No1 amen!
DCTs are fast, efficient, have a good feel and when used manually provide feedback and satisfaction.
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I'm sorry Dino, but I dont know how many DCTs you have driven, the feel and the feedback when used manually arent pretty good with DCTs. In a 458 yes, in cars with a lot of power which are designed to kick in the gears with a hammer. But in a lot of cars, even Porsches the DCT dont give you a good feel.
As for the SLK. I dont know which car you are used or which SLK you have driven, but the second Gen SLKs have pretty nice manual gearbox. Of course when you drive a R34 before or something like that, you will feel otherwise, but if there is a point where Mercedes made a huge step, its the Manual Transmission. They re really impressive today, sometimes even too sporty for some people.
I agree though with your point, that speed dont come hand in hand with pleasure, but with the rest I disagree.
@FunkyChild Totally with you, I've got an NB Mx5 (6spd) for my weekend/track toy and the gearbox is a joy to work, a little short (wish I had a 5spd) but so much fun. Smashing the limiter, and running around little sprint tracks trying to gauge when to shift up, what gear to hold and how the hell to downshift smoothly while transitioning between corners is 90% of the challenge!! I've driven all manor of gearboxes too, from Autos with paddles in Range Rovers, to full autos in Mercs and they make perfect sense in those applications. In fact the feeling of lazy cruising and not working the clutch kind of adds to the feeling of luxury for me when I hop in to one of them. It's all horses for courses
I forgot to mention.
The ZF 8-speed Transmission is overrated. Yes a lot of manufacturers use it, but it also break often. Even in new cars(BMW F10) which dont even reached 10k km. Its ridiculous. If I have to choose between a solid 6-speed automatic or ZF 8 speed, I would always go for the 6-speed. Once the ZF 8-speed breaks, you will have to open your wallet very wide if you have no warranty anymore. And this transmission isnt made for +300k KM. So its just a matter of time when you will have problems with it.
"When I’m old and wrinkly I can see myself preaching this sort of thing to my grandkids, who by then will probably be used to direct-drive electric cars."
--- This is the exact reason I may never own a brand new car again. Its unfortunate really. And for the grandkids....once we all find and obtain our "dream car" its almost essential nowadays that we never let go of it for fear the sport as we know it will have transformed into something completely unrecognizable by the time we are "old and wrinkly." Even has internal combustion and fossil fuels become obsolete or potentially no longer sold, I will have one beautiful piece of yard art! Mark my words!
"When I’m old and wrinkly I can see myself preaching this sort of thing to my grandkids, who by then will probably be used to direct-drive electric cars."
--- This is the exact reason I may never own a brand new car again. Its unfortunate really. And for the grandkids....once we all find and obtain our "dream car" its almost essential nowadays that we never let go of it for fear the sport as we know it will have transformed into something completely unrecognizable by the time we are "old and wrinkly." Even has internal combustion and fossil fuels become obsolete or potentially no longer sold, I will have one beautiful piece of yard art! Mark my words!
Looks like in 30 years those who can drive a manual car will be similar to those who can drive a model T nowadays.
While I understand drivers wanting to have the best of both world automatic and manual with DCT's, I think there is still a huge market for manual transmissions but there's a huge push from auto makers for dull detached cars, it's a conspiracy to finally squeeze us into the Google cars LOL. For me CVT's make only sense in urban vehicles.
10 years from now it will be steering wheels disappearing from cars.
10 years from now it will be steering wheels disappearing from cars.
Dino, I absolutely agree with you on all counts.
But, man, you drive in Manual a DualClutchTransmission....in a city?
I have a DualClutch in my daily drive and I absolutely hate it in manual.
I dont know about Tokyo, but in Bucharest is a hell to drive 10 km in 1 hour at 36 degrees Celsius even now in September.
Of course that I love it because is not an automatic and it feels quicker and sportier if you like, but if I dont have a clutch pedal, I dont want to shift gears driving to town.
I own an ZF 5 speed M3 gearbox in my drift car and it is sweet.
Other than that, I wont shift anymore if I can afford it, thank you very much.
Dino, I absolutely agree with you on all counts.
But, man, you drive in Manual a DualClutchTransmission....in a city?
I have a DualClutch in my daily drive and I absolutely hate it in manual.
I dont know about Tokyo, but in Bucharest is a hell to drive 10 km in 1 hour at 36 degrees Celsius even now in September.
Of course that I love it because is not an automatic and it feels quicker and sportier if you like, but if I dont have a clutch pedal, I dont want to shift gears driving to town.
I own an ZF 5 speed M3 gearbox in my drift car and it is sweet.
Other than that, I wont shift anymore if I can afford it, thank you very much.
I have owned both auto an manual cars and found them equally pleasant to drive depending on my mood. After I bought my r33 skyline though that all changed. It's just such a nice car to drive, getting the same satisfaction in a auto would be impossible. The shift feels precise, the clutch is firm with a very nice taking point, the throw is super short and meaty and when I go through the mountains and heel toe and drive like I stole it I don't even care that I often screw up the heel toe or anything because I am having to much fun to care! I have driven dct cars also and they are fun, even more fun than some manuals, but when you find the perfect manual the dct or any auto just can't compete with the fun and satisfaction you get from it. I am so glad the new tuner cars like the wrx sti, Ford Focus rs, civic type r, Mazda mx5, BMW m4 and many others are exclusive in manual or auto is a option.. This is a very good thing and as long as people like me are around manuals will live another day!
I've always loved manual transmissions over auto but I still don't own an manual lol
Anyways, DINO since autos are taking over what does this mean for people like myself who love grassroot drifting?
Transmission swaps are becoming more common these days but I feel like its a whole hell of a lot more easier if the car I want came with a stick.
"That’s the type of customer they are targeting with CVTs."
This is gonna sting dino, but it's true here as well as other statements. Usually, "that type of customer", is most people. It's the sad truth. Theyre spending tens of thousands of dollars on an item, and they don't even notice what theyre getting.
Anyway, more on the subject, I have never learned manual. I tried to, but then never had to again. I hear great things about DCT's though, and I've had fun using one on my girl's Legacy.
I'll die before I have to daily drive another CVT! From 0 - 50 kph, fine; you don't even know the thing's working and then suddenly traffic opens up or there's a space to overtake that slow AF Mazda Bongo truck in front of you so you go for it, the vehicle responds with a maddening drone and nothing happens. the car inches forward, dragging at it's transmission. Merging is especially a nightmare with these things, by the time you're going fast enough to keep up with everyone else, the couple in the Toyota Prado back there are already pissed at you. Even when you don't have to go fast, it just sits there droning away, annoying everyone.
CVTs breed bad drivers! I'll die before going back! Die, I tell you, die!
Thank you for being patient with my rant.
I would love to see a tuner take a serious stab at modifying a CVT. From an engineering standpoint, there could be nothing better than a transmission that can keep the engine smack-dab on the horsepower peak, no matter the speed. (and I mean peak, not just power-band) Imagine never missing a downshift and bogging the engine, or shifting too late and losing your peak HP. You'd simply ALWAYS be at peak HP.
True, most CVTs are tuned from the factory to keep RPMs low to save gas. But they're controlled by a computer, just like an ECU. I see no reason why a tuner couldn't re-map the CVT to focus on performance over economy. Intelligent CVT mapping could fix a lot of the problems people have with them.
Granted, it'll still feel different than a manual or Auto, as there'd be no shift points that you expect to feel. It might be a little numb for the driver. But (in theory at least) you could have the best performance possible out of a motor with a CVT.
speedhunters_dino It is in the States as well, though only on the top two trim levels.
By the way, Chevy has a seven-speed stick in the Corvette also. I can't remember if them or Porsche came out with it first, but I want to say it was Porsche.
None of this is sad - it's infuriating.
Slushboxes make drivers lazy and inattentive, and literally the only virtue of an automated manual or DCT is its high shift speed, but they're both considered the wave of the future. Well, no thanks.
With a manual transmission, you need all four limbs and mental focus to operate the vehicle. It's as if a manual transmission turns the car and driver into a powerful cybernetic organism, with the living component - the driver - operating a mechanical extension of the his body.
I don't care about shift speed, nor do I care about convenience in traffic. I want to enjoy my drive, and the manual is the way to do it.
You could say that the non-manual transmissions of the world conspire with the advance of computer technology to attack the automobile and its attendant joys.
People can only buy most cars with a slushbox, so they miss out on the fun of a stick and lose interest in the general experience of driving. With the fun gone, they bury their heads in their smartphones and so engrossed, want a vehicle that will relieve them of the need to drive themselves. Hence the prevalence of the slushbox.
So piece by piece, the automobile evolves to accommodate the buying public's ever-increasing apathy toward the act of driving, which the "evolution" of technology is making into an ever-more-sterile, ever-more-boring chore.
First it's the automatic transmission. Then the active cruise control, then the lane-departure warning, then the self-parking system and eventually, the population gets shuttled about the grid in amorphous transportation modules.
Miniature. Individualized. City. Fucking. Buses.
O happy day.
Maybe I can't have a flying car - yet - but I will at least row my own gears.
ChristopherAnderson1 speedhunters_dino
We didn't buy a WRX 4 years ago because my girlfriend couln't drive stick. Now that an automatic version exist (and I heard that it's pretty good), we might consider it. Because an automatic is available doesn't mean you must choose it.
Dino, what is your opinion for Alfa's Selespeed?
Love my old manual gearboxes. Especially the old Saab ones. Great feel, well spaced for on road (but tall for the track) and a good clutch.
Since those bastard Americans at GM killed Saab, I got a DSG Skoda VRs. Can't trail the clutch into a corner to settle the car when pushing on, but have come to love it. Gets a mix of auto and manual mode - manual when I'm pushing on. The driving style is different though. Tend to brake more than change down (short gears and all).
I would stay manual for a track car, but can't beat VW's DSG 7sp on the road. No maintenance issues in my case either...
Well, the CVT in our Honda Accord "sport" is pretty good. In fact, for a daily driver, it's the best transmission I ever had. You put it in "D" mode for regular commuting (really smooth) then "S" mode for a nice curvy road (keep the rev high). It react fast to input, it "downshift" really fast as engine load increase. Seriously, the Accord's CVT is really good.
We had a Lancer Ralliart with the dual clutch transmission and it was jerky on regular commuting. Good when flat out but bad at low speed. I must admit drifting in the snow was like a dream. AWD slides with paddle shifters is something else. I felt like a pro WRC driver.
If they can build good CVT and DCT that can withstand tracktime without overheating (I'm looking at you Mitsubishi), it will be fun. Right now, it's the main problem with those transmission. They overheat and break even with regular lapping. If you want to go hard, manual transmission is still the best choice.
I own a lexus gs450h and I enjoy the cvt transmission. Yeah it doesn't sound great but the car shifts and makes sti look slow
I own a lexus gs450h and I enjoy the cvt transmission. Yeah it doesn't sound great but the car shifts and makes sti look slow
I love my Hondas like children, have a 2014 CRV workhorse and through the years have sampled most of the cvt gearboxes iterations... It's that 'slight' pause when I dump my foot down, in 'manual' it's shorter as you are pulling the paddles but it's still there and secretly drives me insane... It's got the potential to be a great bit of kit.... As long as Honda get their heads out of their arses and only making cars for the elderly (current R excluded). I need a semi-auto clutch that is quicker, or preloading I guess... And a transoil/oil cooler perhaps....
For Honda to put the sort of systems we all seem to want in its factory cars would seriously inflate prices to being in Beemer territory... Territory I don't think they are ready to take on. But bang for buck it's easily the least terrible of a bad bunch I agree.
There just aren't enough of us. For every car nut there are at least 1,000 people that need an appliance. Honestly, depending on which car nut you ask, some prefer autos and for valid reasons. I think this argument begs the question, "If you really are concerned about the lack of manual options available, aren't you the same person who thinks the cost of any new vehicle isn't worth what you can experience in something older and more pure?"
New vehicles will never be able to fully capture the feeling of the analog generation. Everything will be synthesized as best as technology will allow but it still won't be perfect. Maybe the industry is just waiting for all the old guys to die off so no one knows what proper steering feel is anymore.
Some positive feedback about CVTs, that I see in comments below, surprise me quite a bit. I mean I'm no racer by any means, but those things are so annoying.
In Europe, almost every car is a manual, its not a feat if you can use one..
The only source of fun driving a manual comes from kicking the clutch to make something happen, which is pointless in the fwd cars. (read: 95.6% of all the vehicles)
A problem that I've been noticing recently is the lack of a manual transmission option in full size cars in the US in the last few years. There isn't a manual option in the Dodge charger or the CTS-V anymore. At least the manual transmission is flourishing in the muscle car segment, so hopefully it can spur a comeback.
So what? All of this whining about CVTs is just that. You do understand the reason they exist, correct. Basically infinite gear ratios putting the motor right where it needs to be for peak efficiency. The one in my 2015 Outback is fantastic. It allows for better mileage than my smaller, 5MT 2012 Focus. It serves a purpose and does it quite well. I would take a CVT over a DSG style transmission any day. Why? Because, in the search for mileage, manufacturers have gone to smaller gutless motors that require a turbo to make adequate power. The VW GTI is the perfect example. The transmission lag is abhorrent and that is something that exists in all smaller motored cars, regardless of make. The motor by itself does not make enough power and you cannot feather in the clutch.
Clutch type manuals are going away. Big deal. This has been taking place for a long time. Automatics and multiple layshaft/ clutch transmissions are smaller, lighter, and allow for more gear options than a traditional manual does. Computer controlled manuals will be able to do it better, more efficiently, and FASTER than a person can without the drive line shock of snatching gears and dumping clutches.
This has been coming since the 20s. Look up the Wilson Preselector gearbox. You will understand.
So what? All of this whining about CVTs is just that. You do understand the reason they exist, correct. Basically infinite gear ratios putting the motor right where it needs to be for peak efficiency. The one in my 2015 Outback is fantastic. It allows for better mileage than my smaller, 5MT 2012 Focus. It serves a purpose and does it quite well. I would take a CVT over a DSG style transmission any day. Why? Because, in the search for mileage, manufacturers have gone to smaller gutless motors that require a turbo to make adequate power. The VW GTI is the perfect example. The transmission lag is abhorrent and that is something that exists in all smaller motored cars, regardless of make. The motor by itself does not make enough power and you cannot feather in the clutch.
Clutch type manuals are going away. Big deal. This has been taking place for a long time. Automatics and multiple layshaft/ clutch transmissions are smaller, lighter, and allow for more gear options than a traditional manual does. Computer controlled manuals will be able to do it better, more efficiently, and FASTER than a person can without the drive line shock of snatching gears and dumping clutches.
This has been coming since the 20s. Look up the Wilson Preselector gearbox. You will understand.
@Difinity GM did not completely kill Saab. Saab helped in killing Saab. They were wildly overbudget in a lot of what they did.
KamikazeBottleRockets This is kind of an intersting take on the situation. Newer cars are faster, safer, easier to control, more powerful, more efficient... pretty much everything except more "fun" or "feeling."
This is possible because technology can enable a driver to have better-than-human control of the car's systems. Tech can shift faster, modulate throttle better, correct steering faster, brake better, and the end result is a car that can outpreform anyting from the past. As far as the non-enthusiast is concerned, this is all good things. And many enthusiasts also are embracing the technology as a means to an end: speed.
For the rest of us, maybe the time is coming that we can just be thankful for the classic cars that can continue to provide the visceral analog "feeling" that we desire, and count on the aftermarket to continue to support older technology. Because as you say: you can't get more pure than the classic cars anyway.
While I understand the 991 turbo is much faster than my 996 turbo, just a tiny percentage of people get to drive their Porsches on the track. Therefore shifting into 2nd and just flooring it for 2 seconds is the most fun thing for me while driving around on the streets. While doing the same action in the 991 turbo is just a matter of mashing on the gas. Not as fun for sure. Speedhunters problems!
Manny tranny or bust...
Haters gonna hate, Dino. I like my CVT.
Auto transmissions have their purpose, I purposefully bought an auto to commute around D.C. (if you commute around there, you know why)
However, I wouldn't trade my manual transmission in my fun car for the world. There's nothing like the feel from a nice short throw shifter, with a nice hard and responsive clutch to get your blood going. As cliche as it sounds, you do feel so connected to the vehicle with a manual transmission. I'm with a lot of people here in saying, I don't know if I'll ever buy a "new" car. I'm not going to rule it out, but they just feel so neutral (pun intended) to me. They're unresponsive, bland, characterless, pieces of metal and plastic.
I do not know a lot, but I know one thing, my next project will have a manual transmission, and probably manual steering.
I think people nowadays take driving as a hassle, I get it, if you're not a car nut, you see owning a vehicle as an unwanted necessity. Car manufacturers also have seen this trend, and look to make cars more comfortable, not more fun to drive.
And don't even get me started on high end cars with NO mechanical connection to the road, i.e. electronic power steering, electronic brakes, and electronic throttle, that's a whole other discussion that we don't have time for, lol.
I just want to point out the fact that there is a high correlation between the commenters supporting backing up CVT transmissions, and owning ordinary cars.
I just want to point out the fact that there is a high correlation between the commenters supporting backing up CVT transmissions, and owning ordinary cars.
I just want to point out the fact that there is a high correlation between the commenters supporting CVT transmissions, and owning ordinary cars.
I love manuals in my "fun" cars... not a whole ton in commuter cars. The gas mileage advantage is gone. The speed advantage is gone, so that rules them out for some supercars and hypercars that dont have a blatant focus on amusing the driver more than anything else.
But I dread the day the last stick shift car rolls off an assembly line. But I sometimes wonder if them being relegated to the more interesting cars with real character is what suits them better anyway. New cars just dont have a soul sometimes. There are a few exceptions, but for the most part, I dont think a Camry needs a manual transmission. A Miata does, not a Camry. And that may mean the tech is a dead end and wont be truly developed much further, but that's okay. We've got them pretty much figured out. I think their resurgence in muscle cars (Pro Touring movement has something to do with this) will ensure their popularity among enthusiast segments for probably decades and decades. They'll always have a special place in our hearts so we'll keep them alive.
I'll be sad, but I think it's okay that manual transmissions are relegated to vintage/classic types of cars. There's a special thrill to driving an old analog, carbureted, nasty beast of a car with 3 pedals and clutch.
I love manuals in my "fun" cars... not a whole ton in commuter cars. The gas mileage advantage is gone. The speed advantage is gone, so that rules them out for some supercars and hypercars that dont have a blatant focus on amusing the driver more than anything else.
But I dread the day the last stick shift car rolls off an assembly line. But I sometimes wonder if them being relegated to the more interesting cars with real character is what suits them better anyway. New cars just dont have a soul sometimes. There are a few exceptions, but for the most part, I dont think a Camry needs a manual transmission. A Miata does, not a Camry. And that may mean the tech is a dead end and wont be truly developed much further, but that's okay. We've got them pretty much figured out. I think their resurgence in muscle cars (Pro Touring movement has something to do with this) will ensure their popularity among enthusiast segments for probably decades and decades. They'll always have a special place in our hearts so we'll keep them alive.
I'll be sad, but I think it's okay that manual transmissions are relegated to vintage/classic types of cars. There's a special thrill to driving an old analog, carbureted, nasty beast of a car with 3 pedals and clutch.
I am not a fan of the Dual Clutch Gearboxes, even if it is fitted in a R35 GTR and other performance cars. Neither i am happy with CVT solutions that in my eyes is a solution for people without recquirements... In terms of effectivity i agree with the dual clutch systems, but in terms of fun and feeling i prefer a good engineered manual tranny. If you want to go one step further I'd take a sequential gearbox. Even if i am very JDM focused, back in my early years working at a BMW dealership i loved driving the M3 CSL. I loved this gearbox that hammered the gears into your neck! It gave the car some "wild thing" feeling!
I think the soundtrack even changes with dual clutch gearboxes. I mean immagine that: In the good old fun cars you gave throttle 100%. NA engines climed to the top, Turbo cars let that thing spool up to the sky! Then you shifted and the rpm dropped! You could hear the dump valve working, could hear the mechanical noises from the exhaust, it was just so fun! Then the next gear and the fun continued. It's like listening a new "song" in every gear. For me personally this was nice and thrilling! In a DCT car i miss that thing, it becomes monotone and the thrill gets lost.... It makes a high powered sports car "too" easy to drive.. You understand what i mean folks?
It's sad that GT3 street racing machines don't come with manual trannys anymore! At this point big shout out to the Americans, bad ass Shelby's, bad ass Camaros', Corvettes and the lord of badass Dodge Viper's all come equipped with Manual Transmissions! They might be not at the edge of technology, but at least they didn't forget what driving is all about. FUN!!!
I am not a fan of the Dual Clutch Gearboxes, even if it is fitted in a R35 GTR and other performance cars. Neither i am happy with CVT solutions that in my eyes is a solution for people without recquirements... In terms of effectivity i agree with the dual clutch systems, but in terms of fun and feeling i prefer a good engineered manual tranny. If you want to go one step further I'd take a sequential gearbox. Even if i am very JDM focused, back in my early years working at a BMW dealership i loved driving the M3 CSL. I loved this gearbox that hammered the gears into your neck! It gave the car some "wild thing" feeling!
I think the soundtrack even changes with dual clutch gearboxes. I mean immagine that: In the good old fun cars you gave throttle 100%. NA engines climed to the top, Turbo cars let that thing spool up to the sky! Then you shifted and the rpm dropped! You could hear the dump valve working, could hear the mechanical noises from the exhaust, it was just so fun! Then the next gear and the fun continued. It's like listening a new "song" in every gear. For me personally this was nice and thrilling! In a DCT car i miss that thing, it becomes monotone and the thrill gets lost.... It makes a high powered sports car "too" easy to drive.. You understand what i mean folks?
It's sad that GT3 street racing machines don't come with manual trannys anymore! At this point big shout out to the Americans, bad ass Shelby's, bad ass Camaros', Corvettes and the lord of badass Dodge Viper's all come equipped with Manual Transmissions! They might be not at the edge of technology, but at least they didn't forget what driving is all about. FUN!!!
I want manuals everywhere. From racecars to commuters to scooters. I've only ever driven one automatic car and it both bored me and scared me that I had no control over it.
As a ZF test engineer, I sometimes get to drive the company cars equipped with 8HP and 9HP transmissions. If I were to pick one I'd go with the 8HP, but even after driving an 8HP Maserati Ghibli spiritedly through the German countryside, I'd have to say I still prefer my tired old '90 Miata and its 3 pedals. I don't want to put in an electronic request to change gears -- a request which can sometimes be denied -- I want to physically slam it into whatever gear I want, whenever I want, with no backtalk.
As a ZF test engineer, I sometimes get to drive the company cars equipped with 8HP and 9HP transmissions. If I were to pick one I'd go with the 8HP, but even after driving an 8HP Maserati Ghibli spiritedly through the German countryside, I'd have to say I still prefer my tired old '90 Miata and its 3 pedals. I don't want to put in an electronic request to change gears -- a request which can sometimes be denied -- I want to physically slam it into whatever gear I want, whenever I want, with no backtalk.
Manual transmissions must live on! porsche took the optional manual away from the new gt3 and gt3rs. other high end sports cars are doing the same. I highly doubt the average buyer of these cars can race around a track and change his lap time because of a quicker automatic gearbox. Manuals are the only true feeling of control and driver input!
S2000 FTW. I got lured into this article by the article's banner picture.
Derelict But what thei did was right, compare a crash test of a Saab 93 and the crash test of Opel Vectra commonly said as being the exact same thing except for the badge and you will see who was right. Saab couldn't be made the same way as any other GM car is.
Ice Age "Slushboxes make drivers lazy and inattentive"
Hammer meet nail head.
The one auto driver I had I found stop and go traffic so horribly monotonous that it was dangerous. At least in manual while it is practically second nature it does engage my brain to some degree keeping me more aware of my surroundings.
DaveT Ice Age Ever see "The Gumball Rally?"
"Can you imagine making this trip at 55 MPH?"
"Of course not, it'd be unsafe."
"Exactly. 55 MPH is fast enough to kill you, but it's not fast enough to hold your attention."
It will all end with no transmission. when all of the cars have switched to electric, there will not be a need for any gears at all.
CVT's have too many moving parts to be as reliable as a manual. the only automatics that will be as long lasting and handle abuse better are the DCT's, after all it is a manual, only computer controlled.
That being said, i have a soft spot for straight cut gears.
I love my manual. You like your CVT.
Instald a 5speed w58 transmissio into my sc300, it's drives like a different car.
Instald a 5speed w58 transmissio into my sc300, it's drives like a different car.
New cars are harder to work on, and also geared towards motorists who see cars as something to get them from point A to point B as safely and as efficiently as possible. Most new (10 yrs old or less) cars I see have a lot of faulty tail lights/headlights, whereas my 24 year old car has nothing like that, also the headlights made of glass don't suffer the same problem with plastic headlights which can make a 10 year old car look 15 or 20.
They're very boring, come with parking assist, lane sensors, automatic wipers, lots of rice to make them look fast, sports mode, traction control, but then again very safe and much better fuel economy.
I've never dealt with CVT, but one car I want (The Nissan Cube) has a reputation for CVT failings.
I will stick with my older vehicles, boxier lines, less safety, manual transmission, but much more engaging to drive. In New Zealand older car ownership is sweet, but we have to get a WOF every 6 months as opposed to 12 months for cars made 2000 or later. This is just an inspection to make sure brakes and tyres and lights etc are all sweet. And registration costs are cheaper for newer cars.
I never thought you were British/Italian Dino. I thought you were USDM Italian! I've always imagined you to have an American accent.
New cars are harder to work on, and also geared towards motorists who see cars as something to get them from point A to point B as safely and as efficiently as possible. Most new (10 yrs old or less) cars I see have a lot of faulty tail lights/headlights, whereas my 24 year old car has nothing like that, also the headlights made of glass don't suffer the same problem with plastic headlights which can make a 10 year old car look 15 or 20.
They're very boring, come with parking assist, lane sensors, automatic wipers, lots of rice to make them look fast, sports mode, traction control, but then again very safe and much better fuel economy.
I've never dealt with CVT, but one car I want (The Nissan Cube) has a reputation for CVT failings.
I will stick with my older vehicles, boxier lines, less safety, manual transmission, but much more engaging to drive. In New Zealand older car ownership is sweet, but we have to get a WOF every 6 months as opposed to 12 months for cars made 2000 or later. This is just an inspection to make sure brakes and tyres and lights etc are all sweet. And registration costs are cheaper for newer cars.
I never thought you were British/Italian Dino. I thought you were USDM Italian! I've always imagined you to have an American accent.
The sad part about this article is that you are preaching to the choir. Unfortunately car companies have profits to make and shareholders to appease and the car community isn't large enough to have much of an impact. And it seems to be shrinking. The vast majority of people just want a car to get from a to b reliably, safely, efficiently and with minimal effort on their part. As long as there is still a market for sports cars there will be still be manual-esque transmissions, but for everything else the day of the manual is coming to an end. And that trend will only hurt the sports cars as less and less people know how to drive them. At least this seems to the trend in the US. I know in places like England standards are way more common.
My last favorite technological advancement to the automobile was fuel injection (barring airbags and safety items here). It seems we've been losing touch ever since the 50s. I think the 90s represents the end of a great era. Ever since then we have been chasing and applying technology at alarming rates.
It's embarrassing that Toyota Camrys come with Facebook now. We've lost our way. I'll raise my glass to Caterham for keeping it simple and gorgeous. Cheers.
bearclaw_18 You say things like that but we have journalists and other telling us they were able to get faster lap times with automatics and improve their times better with automatics then with manuals, even on cars like the frs at the media day the autos were running faster lap times.
Louch ChristopherAnderson1 speedhunters_dino Sorry, I can make many sacrifices for love, but manual transmission is not one of them.
DaveSilva bearclaw_18 I don't think 'lap times' are what most of us are after. The key is 'feeling'; without which 'driving' a car is simply moving along a surface in a composite/metallic utility toy.
Unfortunately the masses want easy to use autos and cvt around town/citys. Enthusiasts want manuals for that once in so often spirited drive.
Personally, I blame it on an almost non-existent driver education system (in Australia anyway). Last year Australians bought 10 to 2 autos over manuals, leading me to think that if we were better educated on the intricate details of driving, we would be more inclined to drive to drive not just to get to here or there.
I'm sure that the figures in Europe will back me up. Just look at how in depth it is to get a license, leading people to understand that driving is more than pushing one pedal to go and one to stop. Like it said in the article, there have been more manuals there than anywhere else.
If it was mandatory for everyone to drive a manual during the licensing process, I think we may have more proper drivers hence the need for more manual cars.
AndrewTaylor I'm all for Caterhams too!!
Acidboogie You do? Really? Explain why
Chris 'Haffy' Hafner I agree, everyone should be forced to learn in a manual, then at least you will have a better understanding of actually having to use some skill and thought while driving. I also think more would then go on to continue driving a manual and keep the mind sharper rather than just being a lazy driver and pushing 2 pedals and indicating(sometimes) like an auto driver does. Having said that, my current daily is an auto and I'm really liking it, only my 3rd auto car, but I'm a bit older now and still have a few manuals in the garage anyway.
Sandal is mad!
Well the WRX does have a CVT option...
Dino, being a car guy I get the manual trans argument - I really do. they are the most 'connected' transmission you can get period. However you can't bag a transmission type without having experienced every version of a type.
Like you pointed out, there are great manual tranmissions, and there are really bad manual transmission. Fact.
There are also great automatic transmissions and there are really bad autos. Again, Fact.
Also with CVT, there are a number of poor ones like you seem to have experience with, as they are what you talk about (a lot). But there are also very good examples too. The main advantage or a CVT is the direct mechanical drive, infinitely adjustable gear ratios and relatively simple construction. All positives. As Derelict pointed out, the real scope for enthusiasts come when you can 'tune' or drive a CVT setup for performance driving. Imagine being able to change your gear ratios for a particular track etc. with your laptop....... Worth thinking about right?
Best advice I could give you before you continue to slag CVT is to drive a 2015/2016 Subaru WRX. and put the trans/engine in S# mode. 8 speeds, super quick changes, engine braking - its all there. I know people who've driven them and said they shift better than DSG. And then when you want to cruise and get mileage, switch it back to normal.
Try it. I'm not saying you'll get more fun than a traditional manual, but they are not quite what you make out.
Otherwise, love your work man.
Derelict CVT in a Subaru, that still sounds so wrong to me. Oh I'm not surprised you like it, the sheer numbers of cars they are shifting in the US tells the story. I just can't personally digest it, it feels and sounds wrong. I drive a new-gen Nissan Elgrand quite regularly (father in law's car) and it's got a CVT. Accelerating with it from a stand still or overtaking is a painful experience...it's got the power but the way that power is harnessed sounds bad, very bad. Each to their own as they say.
Mind you, the CVT in my Gilera Typoon scooter back home in Italy is awesome, I actually took it apart and replaced the spring and rollers with a Malossi kit and it feels great. But...thats a scooter....and we are talking about cars....
@Bigniks but it doesn't shift
@Bigniks but it doesn't shift
muazyusof The first generations, like the Ferrari F1 & Maserati Quattroporte was crap. The ones they have now are nice
Ice Age "Slushboxes make drivers lazy and inattentive" so true, happens to me all the time
@Sleeves345 I've driven Nismo demo cars with CVTs. They don't do anything to them. Mind you they don't do much to the engines either now hahaha
johnbezt The Legacy never came with a DCT.
@Tom Sequentials!!! lol
@Tom Sequentials!!! lol
greenroadster Yeah almost every time I drove it. I actually short shifted a lot, as the programming for it overruled the shit out of first and second gears for some reason, probably to make progression smoother and have less of a jerk. I miss that gearbox (same as the one used in the E92 M3). The 435i I leave in auto almost all the time, unless I want to make the exhaust fart lol
@mikec Wel steeringl "feel" has already been disappearing for years lol
@David S7 It was the base model SLK with a 2 liter engine. It was crap, utter crap. Overassessed and I felt I was mixing a big pot of porridge when moving the gear selector
@sambo I've sampled many CVT transmissions and drive one regularly (father in law's new-gen Elgrand) I have not yet driven a 2016 Impreza, it's hard as nobody I work with actually wants a story about that car so yeah...that's the reason. But we are all entitled to our opinion, it will take a lot to make me change mine. CVTs belong in scooters
@pblc It's only CVT in Japan
Spaghetti Yeah did you see that! So prehistoric, must have been a nightmare to maintain
speedhunters_dino Elgrand!! Really!! no wonder you don't like them. But seriously, drive a 2015/16 WRX (not an Impreza, they have no 'sport' option like WRX and are a different transmission) with the Lineartronic CVT. It may not change your mind but at least you may realise not all are created equal.
And CVT WRX's are not Japan only, have them here in New Zealand, Australia, USA, Europe etc. Maybe a WRX manual vs CVT comparison. Just to see how you think they stack up? You'd be the perfect person having a strong opinion towards one of the options.
You're right though, all entitled to our opinions, only wanted to comment as you are so wide reaching and influential, and have the ability to influence so many people, when really they should be judging on their experience rather than yours.
Once again, big fan - this subject just warranted input in my eyes.
Cheers!!
"When I drive my GT-R I get more satisfaction from nailing a perfect heel-and-toe downshift than I do from ramming the next gear in as fast as I can. At least give people the choice. Would that be too hard?" Can I get an amen!?
I mean, because I like to drive for the enjoyment too. It's not like I'm constantly looking to shave milli-seconds off a laptime and need quicker shifts. There is a time and place for that. But otherwise, give me raw power and control that makes me feel one with the car, any day
I think enthusiasts are an important even though smaller market. We're the ones actually into cars and know more about them, which is why our general consumer base family/friends ask for our opinions!
If the manufacturers win us die-hard fans over, the casuals will follow.
Same, I have the S15 as a back road brawler but have a Z30 soarer as an everyday cruiser (auto 2j) much better suited to the daily commute in traffic, because a hard n bitey clutch can get a little tiring.
I've had a few cars and wouldn't be sane without a manual, but autos do have uses. We just need the masses to understand that a car is more than a transport object that has a on pedal and off pedal.
You're right I'm mistaken. I need to learn more lol. Write more articles like this
speedhunters_dino Ice Age I truly believe that one way to significantly reduce traffic crash rates would be for more people to drive manuals.
In the process, they'd have more fun in the car, they'd learn to enjoy and appreciate driving as sport and adventure and they'd master a new skill they could be proud of.
There's something about using both arms and both legs to operate a car that makes you more aware of the world outside the vehicle, in a subtle but significant way.
So the seemingly-divergent aims of Safety and Fun are both facilitated by the same device.
Wow. Who knew?
Not only manufactures are targeting a particular audience of costumers. But we should take in consideration that the newer and younger generations are so dam lazy that are not interested in manual transmission or anything manual for that matter. They have become so dependent of the useless social medias and who post and said what in FB, Twitter and Instagram or checking the next viral youtube video...or that they simply don't care. They wan automation cause all they know is using they're Thumbs to click. They will adopt self driving car in a blink of a eye given the option as long as they can spend more time on they're cell phones.
But is not only on cars we are seeing this trend. Automatic transmission are becoming available in motorcycle to. As well the CVT's and thumb shifting transmission. Being the new generation the seamless racing transmission that required no clutch for upshift or downshift. Its only a matter of time that they will have a fully automatic superbike to.
So yes I agree that we will witness the full dead of the manual as we know it.
I agree that there are people out there who can do that! But the average demographic buying these cars are older wealthy people. Not all! But most. And the truth is feel and connection and the ability to have that level of control is what 3 pedals gives you l. And that for me is the magic of driving. Lap times or no lap times
For all of you lovers of automation and technology integration. Don't be bitching about it when someone hack your beloved fully eletronic car and take you for a ride that you would enjoy. Or when a virus get install and renders your car useless...you think im being paranoic? You'll see its only a matter of time..
When that happens I'll be watching from the side in one of my analog carburated cars. Lol!!
AndrewTaylor I 100% agree with you. No, I don't want crank start cars or cars with zero safety features (I'm not that prehistoric) I want a simple fuel injected car with a manual trans, and some light weight, and a car I can actually see out of!!!!!!!!! Good thing we still have late 80's, and 90's through 2000's cars.
AndrewTaylor I 100% agree with you. No, I don't want crank start cars or cars with zero safety features (I'm not that prehistoric) I want a simple fuel injected car with a manual trans, and some light weight, and a car I can actually see out of!!!!!!!!! Good thing we still have late 80's, and 90's through 2000's cars.
When I started working on cars at a Datsun dealership 90% of the cars had manual trans, now at a Toyota dealership about 95% of the cars have auto trans. All the Toyota hybrids run a CVT but it's not a conventional CVT, it's just two electric motors with a single planetary gear set between them. And in a couple of decades all the cars will be electric, hasn't BMW already made a public statement to that effect?
When I started working on cars at a Datsun dealership 90% of the cars had manual trans, now at a Toyota dealership about 95% of the cars have auto trans. All the Toyota hybrids run a CVT but it's not a conventional CVT, it's just two electric motors with a single planetary gear set between them. And in a couple of decades all the cars will be electric, hasn't BMW already made a public statement to that effect?
The problem is, as much as people mightn't want to admit it, we asked for this. Every time a car came out that was built for fun, the car community would beat it down with "yeah, but it's 3/10 of a second slower around the nurburgring than _____" or "yeah, but ______ has more tech". We got so wrapped up in numbers and irrelevant bullshit that we basically forced them into making these cars. We kept asking for bigger and better figures, not better driving feel or a more involved experience, we wanted to be able to brag over a few beers that we're a fraction of a second quicker than somebody else. They gave us cars that did what we asked for, it was our fault for asking for the wrong thing. We only have ourselves to blame.
The problem is, as much as people mightn't want to admit it, we asked for this. Every time a car came out that was built for fun, the car community would beat it down with "yeah, but it's 3/10 of a second slower around the nurburgring than _____" or "yeah, but ______ has more tech". We got so wrapped up in numbers and irrelevant bullshit that we basically forced them into making these cars. We kept asking for bigger and better figures, not better driving feel or a more involved experience, we wanted to be able to brag over a few beers that we're a fraction of a second quicker than somebody else. They gave us cars that did what we asked for, it was our fault for asking for the wrong thing. We only have ourselves to blame.
Direct Shit boxes are great.... When they work properly! I work for a certain "unnamed" manufacturer and the Direct Shift boxes have endless problems. It must be costing the company billions. If I'm going to spend that amount of money on a car, I don't want it in the workshop every other week getting warrant work done!
Direct Shit boxes are great.... When they work properly! I work for a certain "unnamed" manufacturer and the Direct Shift boxes have endless problems. It must be costing the company billions. If I'm going to spend that amount of money on a car, I don't want it in the workshop every other week getting warrant work done!
When we're older we can just 3D print bellhousings, driveshafts, etc and install a program to keep the car from driving itself to the dealer when it realizes it's being modified... amirite? Oh yea and buy a pedal box.
Shamefully enough I like driving my sister's cvt lancer. The rubberband-ness feeling is less noticeable when shifting at redline lol. I'm kinda jealous how effortless it is to run up and down the gears... or put it in auto for traffic! No missed shifts.
But it will never be a manual. Long live clutch kicks and heel toe!
When we're older we can just 3D print bellhousings, driveshafts, etc and install a program to keep the car from driving itself to the dealer when it realizes it's being modified... amirite? Oh yea and buy a pedal box.
Shamefully enough I like driving my sister's cvt lancer. The rubberband-ness feeling is less noticeable when shifting at redline lol. I'm kinda jealous how effortless it is to run up and down the gears... or put it in auto for traffic! No missed shifts.
But it will never be a manual. Long live clutch kicks and heel toe!
Before driving the 991 GT3, I had zero appreciation for anything not traditional manual. As much as I love rowing through gears, I have to admit that there's no way I could have driven comparable lap times with a manual box.
I really preffer manual transmission, gives total control, enjoyed long drives and i like my car to behave the way i wanted
I really preffer manual transmission, gives total control, enjoyed long drives and i like my car to behave the way i wanted
To me,all manual,
I dont care how fast,how rev-matched,how many more gears,or how quick shifting autos and dct's are
I dont care about fuel economy,i dont care about vehicle weight or faster lap times,and specially i dont want a car to shift gears for me,i wanna have fun,and a proper manual lets me have that.
And as quick shifting,lighter,fuel efficient autos/dct are,
Consider cost...100000x times cheaper in a manual than the solenoid driven trans.
...my 2 cents.
To me,all manual,
I dont care how fast,how rev-matched,how many more gears,or how quick shifting autos and dct's are
I dont care about fuel economy,i dont care about vehicle weight or faster lap times,and specially i dont want a car to shift gears for me,i wanna have fun,and a proper manual lets me have that.
And as quick shifting,lighter,fuel efficient autos/dct are,
Consider cost...100000x times cheaper in a manual than the solenoid driven trans.
...my 2 cents.
Funny, the Porsche transmission's I've driven were terrible to many other cars I've driven. You do know that most of them are shifted by cable right? Yeah the direct solid linkage in my RX-7 is way more precise, shorter in through and quicker to engage. Getrag V160 from the Supra is another way better shifter... sure compared to American cars 911 transmission may be a bit better, but any German or Japanese manual transmission is far better.
And as for cost of CVTs... maybe to produce, but to replace they're around 8 grand. I guess you're not aware of fiasco's such as the previous generation Nissan Rogues? They have an extremely high rate of failure and you can't repair them, only replace. CVTs are so bad Chrysler is actually abandoning the technology... that's saying something considering how bad Chrysler's quality is.
I thought about this subject just yesterday, when I read a review of the new Outback. They complained about the CVT for being to noisy. Yet, I believe automatics are the future for manufacturers. It's quite simple, because it makes driving much easier. And personally, I like it much more to when I have to drive to work everyday. But in my Impreza an automatic would mean the end of that car. Just like in an new Porsche, or all Ferrari's/Lambo's etc. Just because of the gearbox I don't ever want such an car. Please give me an old-fashioned manual. If you chase fast laptimes of pure fun in an car, manual is the only way to go. If you want comfort and a car which is only an transportation device, buy an automatic. I talked about this with an Dutch Peugeot importer, and they agreed. So in about 10-15 years most cars will be sold with standard automatic. But car manufacturers all over the globe, if you build an exciting sports car. The only way to go is with a stick in your hand.
I own GS 450h and IS 300h myself and I must say I'm fine with CVT. Why? Hybrids are for daily driving and CVT makes the car go smooth and quite well. Yesturday I've also driven an RC-F. Ofc its more fun and the 8 spd is much better, but for hybrid I can see no reason why to use something other than CVT. Its best combination for the baterries and regular engine, you get the best torque anytime you need it, thanks to batteries and cvt.
Time to buy a Civic Si, tough as nails, only available in a 6spd manual and overall a great handling sports car
If car manufacturers don't sell their econoboxes, they don't make the fast exciting cars we love. Plus, CVT and epicyclic gearboxes are cool as fuck. If I could afford one, I'd daily a hybrid no question. As time goes on, manual gearboxes will be seen on fewer and fewer cars, but they'll never disappear completely. There will always be a place for them on sports cars, and manufacturers know that.
To keep concise and profound: I love to drive, not to be driven. If I want to be driven, I'll take a cab or public transportation, but when I'm behind the wheel I want to do just that: drive and enjoy it!
Bradders daily hybrid is the best trust me...
Bradders daily hybrid is the best trust me...
I drive a shitty ST191 Caldina but have more fun than I would in any auto. I'd stay manual until I could *dream garage* an my supercars wouldn't haha but you're right. Blip, schnick, on the gas all coming together is a major portion of driving enjoyment.
and flat shifting at the perfect point, chirp, grip and go
Project AT180R Control for sure. I drive FWD in the wet and gravel and sideways in a FF car with an auto is dangerous
i23sonny You're right. I'm not a regular car consumer - wouldn't feature as a manufacturers target but when people are looking for a car I'll be asked or sometimes told to just choose one lol
bearclaw_18 I totally think it's to do with power and traction management too. 2 trans types and that's two sets of code I presume need to be written and more time consuming and expensive - tested. We've evolved the engine into heavily managed / high torque things and torque vectoring features in most stability and safety programs now + is the cause of breakages. I'd say setting up a trans is a pain for production.
drive a straight cut dog box as a daily.... had to borrow a mates auto one time (ford xr6). and form that experience I can say I shift faster then that things auto.... even in "manual" mode. I'm sure there are some nice flappy paddle auto things out there, but its just not for me.
@MON5TAR And what does that matter? And more to the point, what is an "ordinary" car? CVTs serve their purpose and they are actually a brilliant solution. Did you know that Williams, THE most innovative F1 teams came up with a CVT to use in F1? It was banned, as all revolutionary things are in that lame motorsport. A motor that has to constantly rev up and down is not efficient. Fixed gears are just simply not efficient. Sure, revving to the moon is audibly fun but you are simply wasting energy by doing so. All you have to do is look at a dyno graph and see where the power is. If you can keep the motor in that window, you have a more efficient motor, hence CVT equipped cars pulling better mileage than their fixed ratio counterparts. Formula 1 banned it by saying that there must be between 4 and 7 fixed ratios and specifically banned CVT transmissions.
Dino, Nissan CVTs are dreadful. You spoke of a scooter you had with a CVT and how it was okay. By your own logic, you should not have enjoyed it as you can get things like Vespas with 3+ speed manual change transmissions.
@MON5TAR And what does that matter? And more to the point, what is an "ordinary" car? CVTs serve their purpose and they are actually a brilliant solution. Did you know that Williams, THE most innovative F1 teams came up with a CVT to use in F1? It was banned, as all revolutionary things are in that lame motorsport. A motor that has to constantly rev up and down is not efficient. Fixed gears are just simply not efficient. Sure, revving to the moon is audibly fun but you are simply wasting energy by doing so. All you have to do is look at a dyno graph and see where the power is. If you can keep the motor in that window, you have a more efficient motor, hence CVT equipped cars pulling better mileage than their fixed ratio counterparts. Formula 1 banned it by saying that there must be between 4 and 7 fixed ratios and specifically banned CVT transmissions.
Dino, Nissan CVTs are dreadful. You spoke of a scooter you had with a CVT and how it was okay. By your own logic, you should not have enjoyed it as you can get things like Vespas with 3+ speed manual change transmissions.
I was a technician with Porsche for 4 years, I used to prep and test drive all the new cars through the dealership. I'd agree with Porsche about the manual box on the Turbo, even back then on the Gen1 997 the turbo would do first gear in about a second at most, it felt like it was hardly worth having as you'd be changing up very quick. From my "extensive testing" (lol) I would say even with the old tipronic on the gen1 997, the auto was far faster on a drag race. So easy to miss a gear, it happens so fast! The Gt2 is the same!
my mate had a 991 turbo s, the difference the PDK box makes is phenominal, he loved it (his first "auto") and he's a big M3/M5 guy, I don't think a human could keep up with the car if they fitted a manual box to that one
I was a technician with Porsche for 4 years, I used to prep and test drive all the new cars through the dealership. I'd agree with Porsche about the manual box on the Turbo, even back then on the Gen1 997 the turbo would do first gear in about a second at most, it felt like it was hardly worth having as you'd be changing up very quick. From my "extensive testing" (lol) I would say even with the old tipronic on the gen1 997, the auto was far faster on a drag race. So easy to miss a gear, it happens so fast! The Gt2 is the same!
my mate had a 991 turbo s, the difference the PDK box makes is phenominal, he loved it (his first "auto") and he's a big M3/M5 guy, I don't think a human could keep up with the car if they fitted a manual box to that one
Car manufactures should still offer manuals in their commuter cars, which is why I choose to daily drive a ‘05 manual corolla here in congested Southern California.The manual in my ’05 corolla is pretty good because it's smooth shifting and fun to drive.For stop-and-go traffic, just keep it in 1st or 2nd gear and leaving a big enough gap to the car in front will reduce the number of times you clutch.I also check my I phone maps app before driving to avoid congestion.Driving in the city with hills, use your e-brake to keep the car from rolling backwards.I get great fuel economy because I can shift-up at lower rpms, cruise in neutral downhills, and keep it in the stronger lower gears when going uphill.Also got it because of great reliability of manuals, just change clutch and fluid when needed.No extra complexity and things to break like in hybrids. Fun, more control, good fuel economy and great reliability is why I choose manual for my daily driver.
I used to have a 1988 VW caddy (MK1 Rabbit pickup for the yanks) in forest green. It had a 4 speed 'box with a longer 3rd and 4th gear.
The way I had to "row" from 1st to 2nd was awesome. Sure I could've fitted a short shift kit, but the way that stick shifted just couldn't be beaten.
Can't say anything about newer technology except "meh".
I should preface this by saying that I love and prefer manual transmissions, and 90% of the 25 cars I've owned were/are manual. But...
I don't actually hate CVT's in regular, non-performance cars. I sold Subarus for two years and in cars like the Forester and Outback I found them very livable if not, *gasp*, pleasant. When they put it in the Forester XT and WRX I was pretty disappointed, however.
Porsche's PDK has made a believer out of me when it comes to dual clutch gearboxes. I would prefer a manual in just about every circumstance except trying to chase the absolute fastest possible lap time, where its performance clearly shines over the manual. I had a chance to drive my 911 Carrera S 6MT up against a Carrera 4S with PDK and I was blown away... unfortunately for this lover of three pedals, but that's technology for ya.
As an automotive journalist myself, I've had to write this story a couple of times now. Its an unfortunate fact that all but a faithful few of todays new car buyers will opt for a car with two pedals rather than three. Ease of operation and numbers on paper will always attract those who really don't intimately know the workings and pleasures of a manual vehicle, whatever it may be. The automotive world is amidst transition at the moment. Gearheads (petrol heads.. what have you) are slowly being replaced with techheads. They want the latest of modern technology, whether it be performance, efficiency or gadgets, and that is where the corporations will make the big money.
As a journalist, I drive a new car every week, and I can't remember the last time I drove a modern manual. What the modern CVT or dual clutch transmission can do is amazing, and relative to the modern car buyer, however like many of my peers, I refuse to own a car any newer than 1990, purely because I want to feel every aspect of the vehicles workings and be able to fix it myself. Modern cars are soul sucking synthetic versions of their predecessors that give a fraction of the driving satisfaction of an old manual. Case in point, I was testing a 2015 Porsche Cayman GTS PDK, an amazing vehicle that costs over $90,000. However, the whole time I was at the wheel, all I could think about was how much more fun I would be having in my $600 Toyota MR2.
Eventually, the manual will likely die, all I can say is stop crushing the old classics, soon they will be all we will have left of the once great driving era.
As an automotive journalist myself, I've had to write this story a couple of times now. Its an unfortunate fact that all but a faithful few of todays new car buyers will opt for a car with two pedals rather than three. Ease of operation and numbers on paper will always attract those who really don't intimately know the workings and pleasures of a manual vehicle, whatever it may be. The automotive world is amidst transition at the moment. Gearheads (petrol heads.. what have you) are slowly being replaced with techheads. They want the latest of modern technology, whether it be performance, efficiency or gadgets, and that is where the corporations will make the big money.
As a journalist, I drive a new car every week, and I can't remember the last time I drove a modern manual. What the modern CVT or dual clutch transmission can do is amazing, and relative to the modern car buyer, however like many of my peers, I refuse to own a car any newer than 1990, purely because I want to feel every aspect of the vehicles workings and be able to fix it myself. Modern cars are soul sucking synthetic versions of their predecessors that give a fraction of the driving satisfaction of an old manual. Case in point, I was testing a 2015 Porsche Cayman GTS PDK, an amazing vehicle that costs over $90,000. However, the whole time I was at the wheel, all I could think about was how much more fun I would be having in my $600 Toyota MR2.
Eventually, the manual will likely die, all I can say is stop crushing the old classics, soon they will be all we will have left of the once great driving era.
As an automotive journalist myself, I've had to write this story a couple of times now. Its an unfortunate fact that all but a faithful few of todays new car buyers will opt for a car with two pedals rather than three. Ease of operation and numbers on paper will always attract those who really don't intimately know the workings and pleasures of a manual vehicle, whatever it may be. The automotive world is amidst transition at the moment. Gearheads (petrol heads.. what have you) are slowly being replaced with techheads. They want the latest of modern technology, whether it be performance, efficiency or gadgets, and that is where the corporations will make the big money.
As a journalist, I drive a new car every week, and I can't remember the last time I drove a modern manual. What the modern CVT or dual clutch transmission can do is amazing, and relative to the modern car buyer, however like many of my peers, I refuse to own a car any newer than 1990, purely because I want to feel every aspect of the vehicles workings and be able to fix it myself. Modern cars are soul sucking synthetic versions of their predecessors that give a fraction of the driving satisfaction of an old manual. Case in point, I was testing a 2015 Porsche Cayman GTS PDK, an amazing vehicle that costs over $90,000. However, the whole time I was at the wheel, all I could think about was how much more fun I would be having in my $600 Toyota MR2.
Eventually, the manual will likely die, all I can say is stop crushing the old classics, soon they will be all we will have left of the once great driving era.
Future me: rev matches a downshift
Future young son/daughter: is the car broken daddy?
Future me: rev matches a downshift
Future young son/daughter: is the car broken daddy?
Future me: rev matches a downshift
Future young son/daughter: is the car broken daddy?
At least we don't have to put it in H
At least we don't have to put it in H
At least we don't have to put it in H
I dont even use the clutch for shifting. But I wouldnt trade a stick shift sports car for an equivalent automatic. If I ever buy an automatic car it'll be for my wife.
I dont even use the clutch for shifting. But I wouldnt trade a stick shift sports car for an equivalent automatic. If I ever buy an automatic car it'll be for my wife.
Budd19 Refusing to own a car newer than 1990? Idiocy.
ra21benj LOL. 'Just change clutch and fluid when needed'
ra21benj LOL. 'cruise in neutral downhills'
@herbie agree. when there is loads of power an auto is just quicker, plus you can keep both hands on the wheel
I didn't know that Americans had an accent in general.
I didn't know that Americans had an accent in general.
I didn't know that Americans had an accent in general.
My previous '85 Celica had 240K miles with original manual transmission that had clutch and tranny fluid changes and was still running when I sold it. My '05 Corolla has 95K miles with original clutch and fluid. Compare this to the same generation Prius that I'm starting to see broken down on the side of the freeway or the previous gen. Prius that are a rare site today. Do you think my '05 Corolla will out live an '05 Prius?
loslogo Budd19 I'm an idiot for not wanting anything newer than 1990? Just because?
If I had not driven anything new, than I would say you MIGHT have some sense of a supportable point. However, I have driven every new vehicle in my market and chose to own cars from the 80's for several reasons. Older, lighter, manual cars are much more intuitive than modern cars, and as such I find them many times more pleasurable to drive. Old cars make real sounds, require real drivers and produce real feedback to the driver. New cars synthesise all these characteristic, and as such I get the same gratification from driving MOST new cars as I get playing video games. Modern cars are like women with boob jobs, they will make your eyes pop, but in the end it's all fakery.
Old car may not be the fastest or post the largest numbers, but I'm happiest at the wheel of an AW11 MR2 on the street and a Suzuki Samurai on the trail. When my friends new cars breakdown, the mechanics take them away for days at a time and charge thousands of dollars for anything more than an oil or brake change. If I blow up my engine, I can pull it out, strip it down and build it back up, because it is simple and cheap. I can do it in my own garage with minimal tools, and I also get equal satisfaction working on my vehicle as I do driving them.
There is a reason air cooled Porsches are pulling more money than 997's, why old Datsun's, Toyota's, BMW's etc etc etc are four times the price now than they were only a few years ago. Old cars have more character, are more fun to drive and are times more economical to own. Idiotic? Whats more idiotic, buying a car that gives you legitimate pleasure, or wasting money on a car because its popular, has all the greatest gadgets and has totally unusable performance on paper?
Budd19 It's hard to beat the cost-for-fun factor of an AW11; that's why I've owned six! However, I did eventually give it up in favor of a Subaru BRZ, and when I wasn't totally satisfied with that, a 997 911 Carrera S (with three pedals, of course).
The 997 C2S is the best value for a 911 right now; the air-cooled cars are in a serious bubble. I couldn't justify spending more money on a car with less power and refinement than the 997, even if the driving feel was a little more raw; I think the 997 is raw enough for my tastes. It's an excellent dual-personality vehicle. The 991's got too big and lost the wonderful steering feel, though they remain brilliant performers.
That said, I could justify spending at least a little more money on certain older cars vs. their newer counterparts, i.e. S30Z vs Z33, AW11 vs. ZZW30, FD3S vs. SE3P.
CoreyKononchuk Budd19 I should digress, not saying everyone should buy old cars, old cars are just what works for me, because they have traits that I hold in higher regard. I can honestly say that I've never gotten out of a BRZ or 997 C2S (or 991 for that mater) and not had a $#!^ eating grin on my face. I think both cars are brilliant, but they're cars I personally wouldn't want to live with. More to go wrong with them, which amps up the repair costs, and I place much more emphasis on the "raw" driving experience. I know many fellow AW11 owners who have moved on to M3's, 911's, STi's for good personal reasons. Perhaps I'm spoiled with the luxury to test all the greatness available today, but I am always so much happier coming home to the 2.
If a 997 is what ticks all your boxes, awesome! If you want a car with the highest numbers on paper, any number of modern vehicles will give you that pleasure. If being green is your prime concern, then by all means buy a Leaf or Tesla. But to say I'm an idiot, just because there is a era of vehicle I would not want to own, that's what I take issue with.
Budd19 loslogo Idiocy is a bit harsh. But basically it just strikes me as a kind of pretentious conservative idea to only buy cars older than 1990. I agree with some of what your saying, I've owned a bunch of different cars and motorbikes and the most advanced and refined were also the most boring. My least favorite purchace was a 2010 Gti, it was overly sound dampened and generally dull to drive whilst also being fairly flawless. Rawest vehicle I've owned so far would have to be the ducati 1098s which was the last model before they got traction control and then later abs. However the trouble with cars older than 1990 is often you have to do alot to extract lots of power from them and I know big power is not for everyone, but I personally love having much more than I need. At the moment I'm driving a 98 Evo V which I picked up pretty cheap running cams, big turbo, fuel pump, intake, tein superstreets, sway bars etc. And this car doesn't meet your pre 1990 nutty rule. But i can tell you when you put your foot down exciting corners and feel the things squirm and catch itself you definitely won't be thinking how boring and santitiesed it is.
Basically there are dozens of cars built after 1990 that are amazing to drive.
Budd19 loslogo Idiocy is a bit harsh. But basically it just strikes me as a kind of pretentious conservative idea to only buy cars older than 1990. I agree with some of what your saying, I've owned a bunch of different cars and motorbikes and the most advanced and refined were also the most boring. My least favorite purchace was a 2010 Gti, it was overly sound dampened and generally dull to drive whilst also being fairly flawless. Rawest vehicle I've owned so far would have to be the ducati 1098s which was the last model before they got traction control and then later abs. However the trouble with cars older than 1990 is often you have to do alot to extract lots of power from them and I know big power is not for everyone, but I personally love having much more than I need. At the moment I'm driving a 98 Evo V which I picked up pretty cheap running cams, big turbo, fuel pump, intake, tein superstreets, sway bars etc. And this car doesn't meet your pre 1990 nutty rule. But i can tell you when you put your foot down exciting corners and feel the things squirm and catch itself you definitely won't be thinking how boring and santitiesed it is.
Basically there are dozens of cars built after 1990 that are amazing to drive.
I wanna say manual when i have a car like a lanevo and its ilk, but reality-wise, with all the traffic i traverse everyday, give me an auto (or maybe a semi-auto like invecs when the road frees up). at any wate, properly cared-for auto trannies are really reliable (lemon unit notwithstanding).
I wanna say manual when i have a car like a lanevo and its ilk, but reality-wise, with all the traffic i traverse everyday, give me an auto (or maybe a semi-auto like invecs when the road frees up). at any wate, properly cared-for auto trannies are really reliable (lemon unit notwithstanding).
loslogo Budd19 Absolutely, there are masses of totally amazing cars built in the last 26-years. I love pushing a stupidly power car to the limits as much as anyone. But to get to that level of joy and satisfaction with a 997, M5 S4 etc, I need to be doing triple the speed limit, burning up $2,000 worth of Pilot Sport tires and carbon brakes. Its much more fun being 10-20 kmh over the speed limit and getting the same thrills.
I would bet that you would find an Evo X to be rather numb compared to your V, even before the work. I've owned a MKI Golf and driving the 2010, perfect comparison as the 2010 brought tears to my eyes. Just like "I" like my AW11 more than your Evo V, lighter, nimbler, 2WD. I'm sure there is a 50-60 year-old out there calling me an elitist bitch cause I drive a car that has fuel injection and a computer. The older they are, the more pure and untainted the driving experience. I say this, and my other posts, not as a car fan, but someone who has experience driving old and new cars. This is all just my opinion, not saying anyone has to agree, but when I drive a new performance car, I always wish I was in something older.
nugundam93 been commuting through hollywood rushour traffic in a cammed lumpy evo 9 and a heavy clutch for 5 years now. I don't understand excuses
nugundam93 been commuting through hollywood rushour traffic in a cammed lumpy evo 9 and a heavy clutch for 5 years now. I don't understand excuses
When we are old enough to have grandkids, cars will drive themselves. They won't even know what a 'transmission' is.
Los jóvenes de ahora como yo estamos viviendo la desaparición de la transmisión mecánica y estar viendo esa transformación y darnos cuenta en la calles que la mayoría de los nuevos automóviles que circulan por el mundo son con transmisión automática y con embrague hidráulicos o embragues automáticos no se cual sera su sensación al conducir ya que solo seleccionan una mando en la palanca de cambio y se despreocupan del estar atentos a que cambio corresponde colocar al momento de estar conduciendo , con esto se ira perdiendo la magia que tiene uno al conducir un auto con embrague de fricción y con una caja de cambio manual que sera de nosotros en el futuro. Mis amigos comentan que una transmisión automática es superior a una manual ya que esta es comandada por la ECU y esta calcula es momento exacto para seleccionar una marcha por lo cual la conducción es mas placentera y no se producen desgaste en el mecanismo por los malos tratos que recibe una transmisión manual , eso podrá ser verdad pero cuantos automóviles hemos conducido con transmisión manual y sentir ese tirón que se genera al conducir en modo deportivo es indescriptible eso recuerdos nunca se borraran.
Los jóvenes de ahora como yo estamos viviendo la desaparición de la transmisión mecánica y estar viendo esa transformación y darnos cuenta en la calles que la mayoría de los nuevos automóviles que circulan por el mundo son con transmisión automática y con embrague hidráulicos o embragues automáticos no se cual sera su sensación al conducir ya que solo seleccionan una mando en la palanca de cambio y se despreocupan del estar atentos a que cambio corresponde colocar al momento de estar conduciendo , con esto se ira perdiendo la magia que tiene uno al conducir un auto con embrague de fricción y con una caja de cambio manual que sera de nosotros en el futuro. Mis amigos comentan que una transmisión automática es superior a una manual ya que esta es comandada por la ECU y esta calcula es momento exacto para seleccionar una marcha por lo cual la conducción es mas placentera y no se producen desgaste en el mecanismo por los malos tratos que recibe una transmisión manual , eso podrá ser verdad pero cuantos automóviles hemos conducido con transmisión manual y sentir ese tirón que se genera al conducir en modo deportivo es indescriptible eso recuerdos nunca se borraran.
While your comment was spot on. I think except for me and a few other guys here...no body else understand what you type cause if they don't speak spanish there's a 99% chance they don't read it either.
Tu comentario igual que el mio es muy cierto. Pero salvo por mi y algunos pocos, nadie mas entendio por que no hablan o leen español. >=)
While your comment was spot on. I think except for me and a few other guys here...no body else understand what you type cause if they don't speak spanish there's a 99% chance they don't read it either.
Tu comentario igual que el mio es muy cierto. Pero salvo por mi y algunos pocos, nadie mas entendio por que no hablan o leen español. >=)
How long before we're reflashing the CVT controller and permanently keeping the engine in the optimum point in the powerband?
"I’m of the opinion that a dual-clutch or new-generation automatic would have no issues in matching or bettering the efficiency of a CVT"
Unfortunately, Dino, your opinion is only that - an opinion. It holds little factual weight against car companies who've spent billions of dollars actually developing these systems, and who do so based on evidence that they actually work.
You've also confused the CVTs used in Toyota and some other hybrids for the variable-diameter pulley system used in most CVTs. Toyota and Lexus use an epicyclic or planetary gearset that allows inputs from both the engine and electric motors - spinning at different speeds - to contribute drive to a single output.
It's still continuously variable (though the gear ratio is fixed, unlike a true CVT), but it's done because it's effective and efficient for mixing internal combustion and electric power, rather than because they're being cheap or lazy.
I can understand liking manual transmissions. I've never owned an auto myself, and my current car is a Miata - which need no introduction when it comes to manual gearboxes.
But the best way to convince automakers to produce manual vehicles isn't to moan about it on the internet and spread misinformation based on personal biases (such as those on CVTs) - it's to go out and buy brand new manual cars yourself, and for everyone else who moans about it on the internet to do the same. And as you mentioned in this piece, you've just bought yourself an automatic BMW...
When it comes to non manual transmissions, I don't mind dual clutches as they at leas provide lightning fast shifts and satisfying feel that makes you feel like Michael Schumacher. However, you can't beat the fun of a manual and it is so thrilling and a pleasure to use one when going on a spirited drive. It sucks so many people give into boring CVT appliance drives. You don't need to be a racing driver to appreciate the satisfying feel of a MT. But hey, to each their own. I just think it's sad where manufactures are left to dump manuals on newer models because nobody bought them on previous models. I spoke with a representative of Acura on the subject as to why the TLX didn't carry the 6Spd over from the previous TL. His answer, they didn't sell, and that sucks. The same even happened to Ferrari which is why a MT isn't available. (Supposedly you can still special order one). In a nutshell. If I can't get a MT. I'll take a dual clutch all day. But stick shift stirs the soul in a very unique way.
Yes the manual is a dying breed, but there are glimmering specs of hope, one of which is Mazda, my mom just got a new Mazda 3 with a 6speed manual! (in America, she refuses to buy anything but a manual) The clutch feel is atrocious in my opinion, the bite is weird, it's kind of hard to shift smooto and it's a really light pedal.. But the shifter itself is beautiful, it has very crisp throw and I could drive it all day long.. Mazda also offers a manual with all trim levels which makes me want to buy a Mazda when I go for a new car
@Name User nugundam93 Judging by your user name, you're in your early 20's. I had a similar experience for many years, but you get to a point in your life where you don't want to deal with the clutch drama in stop/go traffic (I too, live in L.A) If your weekend warrior is manual, its perfectly acceptable to have a CVT or A/T for daily driving.
that's true, fabulous. The spirit is willing but the flesh is now weak, so to speak.
I went from my fantastic 996 Turbo and my excellent 997 Turbo both with 6 speed manuals to a 2014 Turbo, 2015 GT3, and then the anniversary 50th Carrera.... they all sucked. No feeling, no soul. I just bought a 2007 speed yellow 997 Turbo with a six speed. I know what it 's all about. Speed is not just holding onto a wheel and being pulled along. There is no feeling or participation at all. Yeah.. the speed is there but driving is not all about just speed. If there is no interaction and participation and actually skill to toe heel, then what's the point?
Richard
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