Toyota 86 To Get Kers?

The defining aspect of the new Toyota 86 is it’s simplicity. This is a car that’s praised more for what it doesn’t have than what it does have. There is no complex AWD system, no turbochargers, fewer pounds, and few driver aids. It may sound strange then to hear that Toyota is considering taking the 86 in a very high tech direction. Speaking to Top Gear, chief engineer Tetsuya Tada mentioned that he has an 86 prototype outfitted with a kinetic energy recovery system (KERS) similar to the one on Toyota’s TS030 Le Mans car. The idea he said, would be to give the 86 a much-requested power increase in both a unique and responsive fashion.

Obviously it would take some time before KERS could be fitted in a cost-effective manner, but it’s a very interesting idea. What do you think about a KERS-equipped 86 or FR-S?

-Mike

Source: Top Gear

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1

Normally i would choose the subaru brz over either the toyota or the scion versions.... however a super capacitor kers system like they're talking about would certainly change that!

2

KERS sounds like a great idea for the 86.

3

How far off must they be for a RELIABLE and proven street KERS system. The idea sounds like it could be really cool but I just think it might still be a little ways away from reality in a production car.

4

dislike. this is practically the only pure car we have out right now. the only one that the actual driver can be the driver of. keep it exactly how it is. let the trd have a cent. supercharger and let sti throw on a nice little production turbo. for the first time since the late 90's (and arguably a little into the 2000's) someone can work on their car because its so simple. don't ruin it with computers and bullshit.

6

I was really excited about the idea of Subaru and Toyota taking them in their own directions, BRZ getting the STI treatment with a new engine, injection system and turbo. Toyota milling around with a supercharged version of the 86/FR-S. As I already own a 2010 STI I would love to have a Supercharged 86 but if they take it the heavy and expensive hybrid with KERS way, im out mannnnnn!

7

Toyota (and Subaru) need to stop pissing around and put a turbo on it. It's what everyone is asking for.

9

Besides Toyota president is talking about the Supra again Chief engineer Tetsuya Tada said, "The president (Akio Toyoda) has asked me to make a successor to the Supra as soon as possible."  Along with the MR2.  Mazda is also poking around with a RX-7 return...

10

@CraigW83 I see good days ahead of us (hopefully).

11

Noooooo

12

Please let toyobarus die in a horrible fire and give us something that doesnt cost $30,000 for under 200hp in a floppy scion shitbox. That is all. Well.. and no KERS I guess because you know, I dont want to ever see another 86 in production. Toyota got it right the first time, this thing is blasphemy coming out 20 years later with the same damn power, more weight and claiming it as innovative. Please quit trying to make this a cool car, we get you people at scion are very good at marketing.. but wouldnt it be nice to leave just one part of the car market not completely raped by coprorate ass hats promoting a sub 200 hp rwd TC as a damn "drift car"? (nice commercials powersliding in the rain tho! thats sure impressive!)
 
Can someone also please link me to one of these tings with the stock engine actually powersliding and not just lift off over steering? I don't belive these "drift cars" can actually even drift in stock form.

13

back to the point I guess.. NO KERS! The last thing a sub 200hp scion needs is complication. Quit trying to come out with something so mindblowing, new and cool and just stick to the damn basics.. you know..  LIKE YOU SHOULD HAVE FROM THE START. A $30,000 scion "drivers car" should have 0 aids and the car doesnt need electronics for a slight power increase it needs a new damn engine. I dont even get why the hell you would ever engineer a boxer engine and then make it n/a AND THEN stick it in the front of the car... how does anyone but 16 year old twats think this thing is acceptable?

14

If anyone can build an effective performance oriented KERS (they already have built and sold millions with KERS but for different purposes) it is Toyota.
 
Honda has already done this with the newest CR-Z though.

15

@Fkitbtn You really come off as a moron with posts like this..

16

Wow. A lot of hate for technology I doubt anyone in here has any experience with.... you know, except for all us F1 drivers and GT3 owners.

17

@CraigW83  @TomHoward That turbo engine is for the other cars in Subaru's lineup like the Legacy. They have said multiple times that they will not be making a turbo BRZ. You can blame the people at autoblog and other misinformed websites for starting rumors and false hope.

18

@Fkitbtn Two questions for you - have you actually driven one? Since when did the original AE86 come with 200BHP!? For the record, they do drift in the dry in stock form.

19

@zamm333very far from being the only "pure" car available right now...also there are those pesky "computers and bullshit" on scions as well.

20

@Fkitbtn You obviously missed the first videos of Ken Gushi drifting the holy crap out of it and linking a whole track on press day. I believe it was featured on here. Open mouth, insert foot?

21

@Hanma  @CraigW83  @TomHoward  They're gonna have to if the want the Subaru fan boys to buy one what Subaru nut wants an 200bhp n/a

22

@Hanma  @CraigW83  @TomHoward They're gonna have to if they want the Subaru fan boys to buy one what Subaru nut wants an 200bhp n/a

23

Cue KERS kicked in yo! memes.

24

i think that should more effort into reviving other models.... Supra, celica and the old SW20 MR2.....

25

@deadcell96  @CraigW83 Didn't Mazda just recently end their production of Rotary-powered cars? I doubt they'd make a come-back that quick.

26

@Fkitbtn What do you mean Toyota got it right the first time?  When the AE86 Corolla Trueno was launched (alongside it's sedan/hatch/seca variants), Toyota had no idea that it would have the following it has today.  It was just another model in a line of Corollas designed and built for the purpose of ferrying people around effectively and efficiently.  A lot of that fame can be attributed to Initial D, when the takumi tax started being stamped on the trueno models because guys saw this teen drifting his through the touge.  Tbh I don't even know from what angle I should attack your "argument" from.  You just sound like an angry kid going on a rant.  What do you mean by stick to the damn basics?  Are you mad cos there's a lot of safety engineered into the vehicle because these are basic standards that are set by governing bodies.  They're for your own good, because 16 year olds like you think you can drift a car in a video game, go out and smack yourself into a side of mountain.  
 
I don't know why your particular post irritated me.  Maybe it's because of your childish demeanor that spills out all over everything you have typed.  Maybe it's because you have in no way provided no argument as to why you think your suggestions are better than what toyota and subaru have come up with.
 
Maybe come back when you've driven a wider range of cars with out using a d-pad.  Come back when you understand the dynamics of cars out in the market in that price range and why the 86 is a god send.  Come back when you've even experienced being in a 'under powered" car that's been driven at 10/10ths.  Then when you come back, try make these arguments again. 
 
In the mean time, please fuck off from making stupid comments in the comment section of a great blog where I usually enjoy reading good feedback from learned folk around the world.

27

ummm no stop ruining cars if you want moar power turbo the thing idiots....

29

I think KERS should come to everyday life like a nitrous shot or turbo booster. 
Having an extra lump to accomplish a safer overtake would be a big lump on car safety! (or to initiate a drift when nobody is looking) would be so cool!

30

@Fkitbtn fucking moron. You try too hard to be cool. All this shit talking just proved yourself to me a complete idiot. Just shut the hell off and go jack off to yourself in mirror. Shooting your own cum on your own face will make yourself happy.
We understand dude, don't cry ok? It's okay, cry babies like you are normal. We have our sympathy for you

31

@Hanma  @CraigW83  @TomHoward

32

@Hanma  @CraigW83  @TomHoward  They're gonna have to if they want the Subaru fan boys to buy one. What Subaru nut wants a 200bhp n/a? All the ones I know a laughing at the present BRZ..

33

@Hanma  @CraigW83  @TomHoward They're gonna have to if they want the Subaru fan boys to buy one. What Subaru nut wants a 200bhp n/a? All the ones I know are laughing at the present BRZ..

34

I'm sorry but I don't get these hybrid things in sports cars... Sports cars ar much about weight, and how much performance they can get out of that weight...KERS or other hibrid stuff have such a poor "specific" output, I mean, the power to weight ratio of those things are terrible.... With kers, you would like something like 50 or 60kg maybe more, a lot of complexity, just  to have a few seconds of extra power... that's crap...The truth is wich a supercharger or turbo charger, you will get a lot more extra power than KERS, with unlimited time of extra boos, and with much less extra weight added to the car... So... A turbocharged/supercharged GT86 would be much more powerfull, less complex and lighter than a GT86 with KERS....

35

@Fkitbtn boxer engines actually have fairly high specific output as compared to non-boxer motors, turbo or not. The ae86's that was "right the first time" can be fairly competitive with 150 horsepower.

36

@Fkitbtn boxer engines actually have fairly high specific output as compared to non-boxer motors, turbo or not. The ae86's that was "right the first time" can be fairly competitive with 150 horsepower.

37

@Fkitbtn boxer engines actually have fairly high specific output as compared to non-boxer motors, turbo or not. The ae86's that was "right the first time" can be fairly competitive with 150 horsepower.

38

@Fkitbtn boxer engines actually have fairly high specific output as compared to non-boxer motors, turbo or not. The ae86's that was "right the first time" can be fairly competitive with 150 horsepower.

39

@Fkitbtn boxer engines actually have fairly high specific output as compared to non-boxer motors, turbo or not. The ae86's that was "right the first time" can be fairly competitive with 150 horsepower.

40

Let F1 sort out the bugs and bring it to market when it's good and solid.

Author41

@RichDeBerardinis Yeah that's what I was wondering as well. If/when they do get KERS to that level you'd think the second generation of 86 would already be around. Unless development is further along than they hint at....

42

@LavarBowers what about lag?

43

@milkplus and crz owners....

44

@Skiptaylor  Battery =/= KERS...

45

@milkplus "With the new power, Honda has added a KERS-like boost button to the 2013 CR-Z. Officially dubbed the “Plus Sport” (S+ for short), the new boost system is available when the battery is more than 50 percent charged by hitting the S+ button on the steering wheel.  The system then provides up to 10 seconds of boost once the accelerator is mashed to the floor."
 sounds like (and works like) kers to me.... 
and if you are saying Kers doesnt have a battery......
 
http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/understanding_the_sport/8763.html 
 
mechanical "Kers" is all but forgotten in F1 these days.

46

So in theory, every hybrid is capable of having a true "KERS" system to you. It just needs an "S+" button capable of a slightly higher discharge rate. If that's the case, then I'll join the "KERS haters club" since an electric motor and battery packs (making it a hybrid) would ruin the idea behind the FR-S in my opinion.

47

@milkplus push button - release harvested charge to go faster: that really is kers in a nutshell. 
Chill out dude, I'm not saying you are right or wrong I'm discussing the points the post raises.
I think the grey area the moniker "kers" is used to cover needs better understanding and possibly re-catogrising as mechanical, electronic and pneumatic boost systems are all referred to with the same name - mainly because the results are the same: push button, go faster using harvested power.
oh and we agree: the FR-S and BRZ et. al. dont need it, i dont think the CRZ does either but if it means less roadtax for me to pay every year ill adopt it like everyone else.

48

@Mr Tanuki Well obviously it has computers, I'm not saying the gas pedal is a direct unaltered control to a butterfly valve or that their aren't abs or traction control systems. However I'm saying the frs/brz is a major step in a more simple direction in a modern world which is heading exactly the other way (how many other cars can say they have been compared to the legendary e30 in terms of drivability status). And your right its not the "only" car of its kind but it is the most appealing and most widely noticed/talked about. Its the precedent for Nissan putting out an s16 or Mazda maybe( hopefully please please please) making a fe. All im saying is we have finally gotten a major car company to take a step in OUR direction, and its awesome. I just don't want to see it take a step back.

49

@CraigW83 that would all be awesome as long as the dont disqrace those names. think about the nsx, one of the best cars to come out of the 90's and now its some show car with a bullshit hybrid system. if they make another supra (which i hope they do) by god i hope its a turbo'ed straight six. (3jz anyone?)

50

@PaddyMcGrathSH I will never set foot in one and if you can't clearly see it was a comparison of how out of line the new one is with less than 200hp when compared to the equivalent built 20 years ago it's sad but if you guys are happy paying $30k for a less than 200hp scion go for it, I still think its a huge let down and $10,000 over priced. I'm still waiting for video showing them drift in stock form. I want to see a toyobaru drift in the complete dry not on a skidpad or a track that has clearly been being rained on throughout that day. BUT THEY DRIFT THEM IN THE COMMERCIAL!!!

51

@ChristianClark You obviously missed where I said in the dry and that entire track was damp at the worst the entire time, when it wasnt damp it was straight up raining. Try again.

52

@ChristianClark You obviously missed where I said in the dry and that entire track was damp at the worst the entire time, when it wasnt damp it was straight up raining. Try again.

53

@ChristianClark You obviously missed where I said in the dry and that entire track was damp at the worst the entire time, when it wasnt damp it was straight up raining. Try again.

54

@GraysonParker I have nothing against a boxer engine I just don't get why you would want the widest, most awkwardly sitting engine configuration in a "drivers car" and then put it in the front where it can't help. Even if you say they make good power it doesnt matter when they left the thing at 180hp. I must be the only one that would have rather seen them have a properly built  n/a inline 6.

55

@GraysonParker I have nothing against a boxer engine I just don't get why you would want the widest, most awkwardly sitting engine configuration in a "drivers car" and then put it in the front where it can't help. Even if you say they make good power it doesnt matter when they left the thing at 180hp. I must be the only one that would have rather seen them have a properly built  n/a inline 6.

56

@GraysonParker I have nothing against a boxer engine I just don't get why you would want the widest, most awkwardly sitting engine configuration in a "drivers car" and then put it in the front where it can't help. Even if you say they make good power it doesnt matter when they left the thing at 180hp. I must be the only one that would have rather seen them have a properly built  n/a inline 6.

57

Given the amount of innovation and and supreme engineering that Tetsuya Tada has put in the 86 I would completely trust Toyota's decision. This would up the hype behind the frs and make it even more unique.

58

Given the amount of innovation and and supreme engineering that Tetsuya Tada has put in the 86 I would completely trust Toyota's decision. This would up the hype behind the frs and make it even more unique.

59

Given the amount of innovation and and supreme engineering that Tetsuya Tada has put in the 86 I would completely trust Toyota's decision. This would up the hype behind the frs and make it even more unique.

60

@LavarBowers great idea.
let's boost a 12.5:1 high comp engine.

61

@LavarBowers great idea.
let's boost a 12.5:1 high comp engine.

62

@LavarBowers great idea.
let's boost a 12.5:1 high comp engine.

63

@DomoKun  @CraigW83  @TomHoward That's because Subaru fans are usually fans of big power cars. People who are complaining about the BRZ/FR-S are completely missing the point of the car.

64

It's kind of a double edged sword... On one hand I would like to say that anything good enough for a race car is good enough for a street car. But on the other hand I don't want to see this car get over complicated.

65

@Fkitbtn  I know you're trying to be difficult on purpose now, but I'm going to reply to you in the hope that you're not trolling. 
 
My reading of what you said is that you've never been in one, and probably aren't old enough to drive one. That's okay by the way, we were all too young for something or other in life at one stage. A car's ability to drift is not the defining character of the car. Yes, they do drift in stock trim, in the dry, much like a stock S13 does i.e. it's not really that pretty. Although I don't have any video to back this up, I do have outtakes from a shoot I did with CAR and Keiichi Tsuchyia earlier this year - http://www.pmcgphotos.com/automotive/a-gt86-ae86-the-drift-king-a-shoot-for-car-magazine.html
 
Whether it's worth $30,000 or not is down to personal opinion. I think it's worth every cent of that to be honest. Don't forget you're getting a brand new car with a warranty, navigation, air-con etc that can be used everyday, is easy to work on and is a more than capable track day car.
 
Reading your comment to @GraysonParker below, with regards to the use of the boxer engine, I guess you might not realise that the FA-20 / 4U-GSE is an absolute peach of an engine with real tuning potential. The boxer design features a low centre of gravity in a relatively small package which keeps the car's CoG low and balanced. The whole idea of the car is to create a sharp and capable package and IMO they have achieved that. These are a GREAT car to drive. If you were to put a straight six into one, it would absolutely ruin it as a road car. 
 
Your comparison with the original '86 is a little bit deluded I think. A stock AE86 left the factory with as little as 112BHP depending on trim in a car that weighs around 1,100KGs. Today's ZN6 weighs in at around 1,200KGs which is 100KGs heavier but you have to remember that today's cars have to satisfy lots of safety legislation, and the added weight that this brings, but it also has 200BHP stock. AE86 is 108BHP per ton weight, with the ZN6 being around 166BHP per ton. I think that's a good evolution from the original car? 
 
People forget that this is a brand new car, the full potential of which has yet to be explored. Let's give it some time before we dismiss it shall we?

66

@PaddyMcGrathSH I'll start by saying I'm 22 own an E36 M3 track car(by the way what do you drive?) and I have watched that shitty video of the soaking wet track and a toyobaru sliding around plenty of times and after three times of me asking that is all you guys can come up with.. because they cant actually powerslide a corner they can just oversteer and fight for traction, no one has shown me a  video of a toyobaru sliding in realistic (not set up like your glorious raining track video or a scion commercial) conditions so you can drop your first paragraph right there.
 
It's not a personal opinion on price when you are paying $30,000 for something with under 200hp and calling it good value. And the engine may be a good engine, I have NEVER said it wasnt. What I am saying is its the wrong engine for the car. You can go on about a boxer sitting lower, but we all know if the engineers behind the car put some real effort into it they could have made an inline 6 sit just as low with almost no top weight for your precious wheel center roll you seem to care about when all of that should be sorted by the chassis and engineers without problems anyways.
 
I think its poor evolution and I'm not trolling. Its really NOT light weight and its VERY under powered for the time it came out in. Its TWO DECADES later and they have only managed to give the car ~80HP (being generous) and have managed to still add weight while using newer materials and cutting corners for power by trying to be clever and now look, they have to turbo it and add weight in even worse places just to make people happy.
 
By the way please stop over processing your photos. HDR color changes are way to obvious and this whole "cross processing" fad to attempt to look like film with gross yellow toning, fake vignetting and too much contrast is just pathetic, learn to shoot, process and above all learn where and how to properly use a soxt box.. Who the hell brings one underpowered light/soft box to shoot a car OUT DOORS instead of bringing something easy to use, powerful and even looking. You know, like flashes and umbrellas?  Whatever tho, I'd be stoked too if i was getting paid to go take snapshots. I'd LOVE to see how atrocious your .RAW files are.

67

@Fkitbtn No you aren't the only one... Personally I hate those unbalanced little turds. You and I both know an inline 6 with the same specs (12.5:1 comp ratio, 2.0L, direct injected) would run circles around a flat 4.

68

@Fkitbtn it wouldn't retain the original spirit of the 2 cars they were trying to emulate in the first place, if it had an inline 6. the sport 800 had a boxer, which was the inspiration for the engine and the ae86 was a fairly simple, underpowered, fun car. those are both what this car is. and 180 hp from a 2 litre with no turbo is good no matter how you slice it

69

@Fkitbtn Oh dear, I obviously mistook you for a mature adult who could have a constructive argument without resorting to childish insults. My apologies. Please do go troll somewhere else though, you won't be missed.

70

@Fkitbtn Oh dear, I obviously mistook you for a mature adult who could have a constructive argument without resorting to childish insults. My apologies. Please do go troll somewhere else though, you won't be missed.

71
9999999999999999999

KERS only on toyota to put or on Subaru also?

72
9999999999999999999

KERS only on toyota to put or on Subaru also?

73

@GraysonParker Thank  f*ck someone gets it ...

74

@GraysonParker Thank  f*ck someone gets it ...

75

@Mark Reyes  @GraysonParker  I get where the inspiration came from and I love small lightweight cars that handle. That doesn't mean it has to be underpowered to be nostalgic... And I'm not saying that 180 to 200 horsepower is weak either. On top of that, I am a hardcore Toyota guy and love this car. However, that Subaru pile of crap under the hood is the reason why I don't own one. I love Toyota for the legendary straight 6's they have produced, the torque and reliability they bring to the table. AND instead of driving a mid 80's Corolla like every other drifter fan boy out there, I have an 84 Celica Supra with a beastly 7MGTE. My Corolla is a 73 and it weighs 1900 lbs with me in it... And the engine I'm building for it... You guessed it, a rev happy yet still torquey inline 6.

76

@PaddyMcGrathSH  @Fkitbtn Rethink how you start your replies if you don't want to be criticized yourself. You start with "My reading of what you said is that you've never been in one, and probably aren't old enough to drive one. That's okay by the way, we were all too young for something or other in life at one stage." Is never going to get a reply with no sarcasm or criticism.

77

@Skiptaylor  @LavarBowers  um i didnt say toss a 76mm turbo on it a disco potato turbo should be just fine on it....

78

my bad rob id just assumed you would know to put lower compression pistons in it to make it work...silly me

79

TBH IDK why compression is that damn high anyway...

80

Wow, Toyota 86 is evolving, i will buy it when it reach Final Phase.The Powerful Toyota 86 Hybrid version .I trust the chief engineer, he is Mr 86, he know what he talk about. go Tada-san!!

81

Wow, Toyota 86 is evolving, i will buy it when it reach Final Phase.The Powerful Toyota 86 Hybrid version .I trust the chief engineer, he is Mr 86, he know what he talk about. go Tada-san!!

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