Toyota 86 To Get Kers?

The defining aspect of the new Toyota 86 is it’s simplicity. This is a car that’s praised more for what it doesn’t have than what it does have. There is no complex AWD system, no turbochargers, fewer pounds, and few driver aids. It may sound strange then to hear that Toyota is considering taking the 86 in a very high tech direction. Speaking to Top Gear, chief engineer Tetsuya Tada mentioned that he has an 86 prototype outfitted with a kinetic energy recovery system (KERS) similar to the one on Toyota’s TS030 Le Mans car. The idea he said, would be to give the 86 a much-requested power increase in both a unique and responsive fashion.

Obviously it would take some time before KERS could be fitted in a cost-effective manner, but it’s a very interesting idea. What do you think about a KERS-equipped 86 or FR-S?

-Mike

Source: Top Gear


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49 comments
MY
MY

Wow, Toyota 86 is evolving, i will buy it when it reach Final Phase.The Powerful Toyota 86 Hybrid version .I trust the chief engineer, he is Mr 86, he know what he talk about. go Tada-san!! 

Inline6ness
Inline6ness

It's kind of a double edged sword... On one hand I would like to say that anything good enough for a race car is good enough for a street car. But on the other hand I don't want to see this car get over complicated.

Joebro2991
Joebro2991

Given the amount of innovation and and supreme engineering that Tetsuya Tada has put in the 86 I would completely trust Toyota's decision. This would up the hype behind the frs and make it even more unique.

ClaytonPayton
ClaytonPayton

Let F1 sort out the bugs and bring it to market when it's good and solid.

JoaoOliveira
JoaoOliveira

I'm sorry but I don't get these hybrid things in sports cars... Sports cars ar much about weight, and how much performance they can get out of that weight...KERS or other hibrid stuff have such a poor "specific" output, I mean, the power to weight ratio of those things are terrible.... With kers, you would like something like 50 or 60kg maybe more, a lot of complexity, just  to have a few seconds of extra power... that's crap...The truth is wich a supercharger or turbo charger, you will get a lot more extra power than KERS, with unlimited time of extra boos, and with much less extra weight added to the car... So... A turbocharged/supercharged GT86 would be much more powerfull, less complex and lighter than a GT86 with KERS.... 

mbretschneider
mbretschneider

I think KERS should come to everyday life like a nitrous shot or turbo booster. 

Having an extra lump to accomplish a safer overtake would be a big lump on car safety! (or to initiate a drift when nobody is looking) would be so cool!

Nikhil_P
Nikhil_P

i think that should more effort into reviving other models.... Supra, celica and the old SW20 MR2.....

milkplus
milkplus

Wow. A lot of hate for technology I doubt anyone in here has any experience with.... you know, except for all us F1 drivers and GT3 owners.

andrewhake
andrewhake

If anyone can build an effective performance oriented KERS (they already have built and sold millions with KERS but for different purposes) it is Toyota.

 

Honda has already done this with the newest CR-Z though.

CraigW83
CraigW83

Besides Toyota president is talking about the Supra again Chief engineer Tetsuya Tada said, "The president (Akio Toyoda) has asked me to make a successor to the Supra as soon as possible."  Along with the MR2.  Mazda is also poking around with a RX-7 return...

 

TomHoward
TomHoward

Toyota (and Subaru) need to stop pissing around and put a turbo on it. It's what everyone is asking for.

CraigW83
CraigW83

I was really excited about the idea of Subaru and Toyota taking them in their own directions, BRZ getting the STI treatment with a new engine, injection system and turbo. Toyota milling around with a supercharged version of the 86/FR-S. As I already own a 2010 STI I would love to have a Supercharged 86 but if they take it the heavy and expensive hybrid with KERS way, im out mannnnnn!

zamm333
zamm333

dislike. this is practically the only pure car we have out right now. the only one that the actual driver can be the driver of. keep it exactly how it is. let the trd have a cent. supercharger and let sti throw on a nice little production turbo. for the first time since the late 90's (and arguably a little into the 2000's) someone can work on their car because its so simple. don't ruin it with computers and bullshit.

RichDeBerardinis
RichDeBerardinis

How far off must they be for a RELIABLE and proven street KERS system. The idea sounds like it could be really cool but I just think it might still be a little ways away from reality in a production car. 

 

CarlosAvila
CarlosAvila

KERS sounds like a great idea for the 86.

Todd
Todd

Normally i would choose the subaru brz over either the toyota or the scion versions.... however a super capacitor kers system like they're talking about would certainly change that!

zamm333
zamm333

 @CraigW83 that would all be awesome as long as the dont disqrace those names. think about the nsx, one of the best cars to come out of the 90's and now its some show car with a bullshit hybrid system. if they make another supra (which i hope they do) by god i hope its a turbo'ed straight six. (3jz anyone?)

Mr Tanuki
Mr Tanuki

 @zamm333very far from being the only "pure" car available right now...also there are those pesky "computers and bullshit" on scions as well.

Mike Garrett
Mike Garrett

 @RichDeBerardinis Yeah that's what I was wondering as well. If/when they do get KERS to that level you'd think the second generation of 86 would already be around. Unless development is further along than they hint at....

LavarBowers
LavarBowers

TBH IDK why compression is that damn high anyway...

LavarBowers
LavarBowers

my bad rob id just assumed you would know to put lower compression pistons in it to make it work...silly me

GraysonParker
GraysonParker

 @Fkitbtn boxer engines actually have fairly high specific output as compared to non-boxer motors, turbo or not. The ae86's that was "right the first time" can be fairly competitive with 150 horsepower.

Fearedisx
Fearedisx

 @deadcell96  @CraigW83 Didn't Mazda just recently end their production of Rotary-powered cars? I doubt they'd make a come-back that quick.

Hanma
Hanma

 @CraigW83  @TomHoward That turbo engine is for the other cars in Subaru's lineup like the Legacy. They have said multiple times that they will not be making a turbo BRZ. You can blame the people at autoblog and other misinformed websites for starting rumors and false hope.

zamm333
zamm333

 @Mr Tanuki Well obviously it has computers, I'm not saying the gas pedal is a direct unaltered control to a butterfly valve or that their aren't abs or traction control systems. However I'm saying the frs/brz is a major step in a more simple direction in a modern world which is heading exactly the other way (how many other cars can say they have been compared to the legendary e30 in terms of drivability status). And your right its not the "only" car of its kind but it is the most appealing and most widely noticed/talked about. Its the precedent for Nissan putting out an s16 or Mazda maybe( hopefully please please please) making a fe. All im saying is we have finally gotten a major car company to take a step in OUR direction, and its awesome. I just don't want to see it take a step back.

Skiptaylor
Skiptaylor

 @milkplus push button - release harvested charge to go faster: that really is kers in a nutshell. 

Chill out dude, I'm not saying you are right or wrong I'm discussing the points the post raises.

I think the grey area the moniker "kers" is used to cover needs better understanding and possibly re-catogrising as mechanical, electronic and pneumatic boost systems are all referred to with the same name - mainly because the results are the same: push button, go faster using harvested power.

oh and we agree: the FR-S and BRZ et. al. dont need it, i dont think the CRZ does either but if it means less roadtax for me to pay every year ill adopt it like everyone else.

milkplus
milkplus

So in theory, every hybrid is capable of having a true "KERS" system to you. It just needs an "S+" button capable of a slightly higher discharge rate. If that's the case, then I'll join the "KERS haters club" since an electric motor and battery packs (making it a hybrid) would ruin the idea behind the FR-S in my opinion.

Skiptaylor
Skiptaylor

 @milkplus "With the new power, Honda has added a KERS-like boost button to the 2013 CR-Z. Officially dubbed the “Plus Sport” (S+ for short), the new boost system is available when the battery is more than 50 percent charged by hitting the S+ button on the steering wheel.  The system then provides up to 10 seconds of boost once the accelerator is mashed to the floor."

 sounds like (and works like) kers to me.... 

and if you are saying Kers doesnt have a battery......

 

http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/understanding_the_sport/8763.html 

 

mechanical "Kers" is all but forgotten in F1 these days.

Inline6ness
Inline6ness

 @Mark Reyes  @GraysonParker  I get where the inspiration came from and I love small lightweight cars that handle. That doesn't mean it has to be underpowered to be nostalgic... And I'm not saying that 180 to 200 horsepower is weak either. On top of that, I am a hardcore Toyota guy and love this car. However, that Subaru pile of crap under the hood is the reason why I don't own one. I love Toyota for the legendary straight 6's they have produced, the torque and reliability they bring to the table. AND instead of driving a mid 80's Corolla like every other drifter fan boy out there, I have an 84 Celica Supra with a beastly 7MGTE. My Corolla is a 73 and it weighs 1900 lbs with me in it... And the engine I'm building for it... You guessed it, a rev happy yet still torquey inline 6.

GraysonParker
GraysonParker

 @Fkitbtn it wouldn't retain the original spirit of the 2 cars they were trying to emulate in the first place, if it had an inline 6. the sport 800 had a boxer, which was the inspiration for the engine and the ae86 was a fairly simple, underpowered, fun car. those are both what this car is. and 180 hp from a 2 litre with no turbo is good no matter how you slice it

Inline6ness
Inline6ness

@Fkitbtn No you aren't the only one... Personally I hate those unbalanced little turds. You and I both know an inline 6 with the same specs (12.5:1 comp ratio, 2.0L, direct injected) would run circles around a flat 4.

Fkitbtn
Fkitbtn

 @GraysonParker I have nothing against a boxer engine I just don't get why you would want the widest, most awkwardly sitting engine configuration in a "drivers car" and then put it in the front where it can't help. Even if you say they make good power it doesnt matter when they left the thing at 180hp. I must be the only one that would have rather seen them have a properly built  n/a inline 6.

PaddyMcGrath
PaddyMcGrath

@Fkitbtn Oh dear, I obviously mistook you for a mature adult who could have a constructive argument without resorting to childish insults. My apologies. Please do go troll somewhere else though, you won't be missed.

PaddyMcGrath
PaddyMcGrath

 @Fkitbtn  I know you're trying to be difficult on purpose now, but I'm going to reply to you in the hope that you're not trolling. 

 

My reading of what you said is that you've never been in one, and probably aren't old enough to drive one. That's okay by the way, we were all too young for something or other in life at one stage. A car's ability to drift is not the defining character of the car. Yes, they do drift in stock trim, in the dry, much like a stock S13 does i.e. it's not really that pretty. Although I don't have any video to back this up, I do have outtakes from a shoot I did with CAR and Keiichi Tsuchyia earlier this year - http://www.pmcgphotos.com/automotive/a-gt86-ae86-the-drift-king-a-shoot-for-car-magazine.html

 

Whether it's worth $30,000 or not is down to personal opinion. I think it's worth every cent of that to be honest. Don't forget you're getting a brand new car with a warranty, navigation, air-con etc that can be used everyday, is easy to work on and is a more than capable track day car.

 

Reading your comment to @GraysonParker below, with regards to the use of the boxer engine, I guess you might not realise that the FA-20 / 4U-GSE is an absolute peach of an engine with real tuning potential. The boxer design features a low centre of gravity in a relatively small package which keeps the car's CoG low and balanced. The whole idea of the car is to create a sharp and capable package and IMO they have achieved that. These are a GREAT car to drive. If you were to put a straight six into one, it would absolutely ruin it as a road car. 

 

Your comparison with the original '86 is a little bit deluded I think. A stock AE86 left the factory with as little as 112BHP depending on trim in a car that weighs around 1,100KGs. Today's ZN6 weighs in at around 1,200KGs which is 100KGs heavier but you have to remember that today's cars have to satisfy lots of safety legislation, and the added weight that this brings, but it also has 200BHP stock. AE86 is 108BHP per ton weight, with the ZN6 being around 166BHP per ton. I think that's a good evolution from the original car? 

 

People forget that this is a brand new car, the full potential of which has yet to be explored. Let's give it some time before we dismiss it shall we?

 

 

 

 

PaddyMcGrath
PaddyMcGrath

 @Fkitbtn Two questions for you - have you actually driven one? Since when did the original AE86 come with 200BHP!? For the record, they do drift in the dry in stock form. 

Hanma
Hanma

 @DomoKun  @CraigW83  @TomHoward That's because Subaru fans are usually fans of big power cars. People who are complaining about the BRZ/FR-S are completely missing the point of the car.

DomoKun
DomoKun

 @Hanma  @CraigW83  @TomHoward They're gonna have to if they want the Subaru fan boys to buy one. What Subaru nut wants a 200bhp n/a? All the ones I know are laughing at the present BRZ..


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