This week’s news about Toyota considering adding a KERS-equipped 86 to the lineup sparked a lot of interesting discussion about the future of this car. While the it’s been praised across the world for it’s dynamics, I don’t think anyone would complain if Toyota and Subaru were to release higher horsepower versions of the 86 and BRZ. Surely it’s something that’s in the works.
The question for this week then, is how would YOU like to them to extract more power from the car? Turbocharger? Supercharger? Keep it NA? Something like KERS?
Vote and discuss below!
-Mike
[polldaddy poll="6696616"]
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Can't go wrong with turbo's. Works on most SR20's, and any scoobie/evo worth owning, + multiple other platforms.
However, does this mean too common, and therefore boring?
What I think needs done is a turbo for a production TRD/STi model and keep it NA for the base. Having both options is always a good idea in a cheap drivers car. And only equip turbos with manual transition cars.
This doesn't apply to a production build. But, what about an naturally aspirated 20B swap?
I would want 300hp N/A , That little car would be a rocket. But I would probably put a turbo on it later on.
Boost it, Boost it with Turbos!
I say keep it the way it is. Make it even more gear head friendly...and introduce RC version to the US.
I voted turbo powaaaa, but I think turbo should be top of the range and do a more powerful N/A version to bridge the gap
Hybrid electric turbo!
I thought the general consensus on this was Subaru put a turbo on, Toyota put a supercharger on.
North America is getting a TRD supercharger if the ministry of transportation gives it the OK. Not too sure what Subi has planned though.
North America is getting a TRD supercharger if the ministry of transportation gives it the OK. Not too sure what Subi has planned though.
Twin Charge!
Twin Charge!
I'd want something like KERS or at least something unique. I could always modify the car to make it faster and truth is most people wishing for a higher HP 86 won't ever be happy with the HP, they'll always want more. At least something like KERS will be unique and add value to the car over time. It will also make it very interesting for the car on a grassroots autocross/racing level where it really would be the first of its kind.
Bring back the 4AGE!
Keep this car NA. Let a future platform have the turbo. This is not the new Supra.
They want this to be the next great tuner car. Nothing makes that happen faster than a factory turbo (or an extremely restricted massive v8 that takes to bolt-ons like gasoline to fire) Also, do away with the historically impossibly encrypted Toyota ECUs, Still to this day only a couple shops offer flashes for the MKIV Supra, the ones that do want OODLES of money for a flash and at most you can expect a couple HP and maybe a bumped rev limiter.
the fact that its so simple makes it so great
@BradC155
so no boost system for me thanks
more hp for the NA!
(200hp/4cl)*(6cyl) = EG33 on AVCS = nightmare mode.
Easily 300hp.
if the vehicles inspiration was the toyota ae86. it should have more na power not a turbo or some fance electronic bulshit. i know im biased because i drive an ae86. butit would be way cooler to follow i the footsteps of the ae86. simple power good handling. then people can do whatever aftermarket parts they want a turbo or supercharger. whatever. na is the way to go
If they give the NA more power, the turbos, which will eventually be available for it will make even more POWER!!!
agreed, something like the way porsche does it maybe?
3s-gte or a 2J. the future is stupid, toyota and the car undustry as a whole are declining in appeal as the bow to the whims of the mobs insistance of "hybrid" and "green" tech.
I personally would like to see a little, for lack of a better term, split between the Toyota/Scion and the Subaru. I say give the STI group a run at developing the turbocharged side of things and let Toyota/Scion develop a higher HP N/A motor. This would preserve the nostalgic side of the Toyota 86 history while the newer generation of enthusiasts might tend to gear towards a turbo. It would allow an outlet for different tuning styles and also create competition for sales. Cars are about having options, and if you dont currently have them, you make them, so why not have more variety straight from the factory?
Well I've always found the appeal of this platform to be the low cost of entry. It would make sense to me an easy way to add some desired power without changing the cost of production is to punch out the cylinders and give this thing a little more displacement. Seemed to work for Honda with there S2000 platform and it seems to be what Nissans done on with there Z cars.
I love how people keep asking for more power are more likely than not, not able to drive the stock NA at 10/10ths anyway
Some people like to think that SH is big enough (in the media-segment) to have an impact on how Tada san and his crew are gonna engineer the next 86. Unfortunately that's not the case.
This poll is totally redundant.....and for those of you that voiced your opinion hoping that your idea would matter....sorry but your opinion doesn't matter.....think about it for a second.
I'm not entirely sure why Mike Garrett/ SH does those pool (for what benefit?!)....but it's totally redundant, and pointless.
Subaru should put a new generation EJ series motor like their STI's have in.
if this car replaces the AE86 should have a similar setup and have toyota components. I disagree with the typical Subaru's boxer under the hood
hmm it seems no one appreciates NA power anymore. just throw forced induction problem solved right guys? wow
@varilight I can't like this comment enough.
Because is a Sub it should be a turbo, + factory turbo car are far easier to build up after market than a NA car turned turbo. But, if the KERS came with a Power to Pass button that would be hellaciously cool
LS1!!!!! Joking, but come on displace it to 2.4L bore it and destroke it, add light pistons and do some crazy intake/exhaust engineering and try and end up with 250hp N/A. Save a pure car by keeping its purity. Add lightness!
@JDMized For shits and giggles dude. I doubt anyone thinks Toyota is waiting for this pole so they can plan out their next move
Turbo is the obvious choice. KERS would be really cool, but I would imagine there wouldn't be many options for tuning.
Roy is right. NA power should be a no-brainer.....but toyota''s choice of engine already shows they dont think things through and they still wanna be cheap so i do see the horrible idea of just a stock turbo being added............and an LS1 swap would be amazing. cant lie
@PSmurf This is probably the best idea I've read.
It's supposed to be simple. Give it more power without some sort of forced-induction.
@JDMized Haha...you're a piece of work aren't ya...the poll is just to see what the general consensus is among the SH readers regarding the 86. No one's taking it that seriously, expect you, obviously.
@JDMized Haha...you're a piece of work aren't ya...the poll is just to see what the general consensus is among the SH readers regarding the 86. No one's taking it seriously,..Well, except you, obviously.
surely, historically, supercharging is the best option as when toyota realised they needed more power from the original 4A-GE they created the 4A-GZE, its supercharged counterpart. As a purist with the belief that the FT should follow the example and template set before it, I would say that a supercharged engine, although never fitted to the AE86 chasis by Toyota, would be the best option.
I think you'll find it'll already be fairly 'optimised' in its rod ratio, reciprocating mass etc.
more horsepower means more expensive on car price !!!!!!
Im repeating what a few have said already, but why not offer the best of both worlds? In addition to the cheaper base model, bring in a lighter, higher specd NA version (~230ps) for the purists and a supercharged version for something a little more beefy. The 2.0L NA SXE10 Altezza offers 210ps (~5ps more) from an engine developed well over a decade ago, one would expect them to at least surpass this. I realise emissions standards aren't helping here, but still.As for turbos, Not a big fan of the complexity required for the boxer engine in this instance...
2c worth..
I probably wouldn't buy one with KERS. While it's interesting technology, for me it would spoil the purity of what's meant to be a simple, no-frills RWD car.
I think a centrifugal SC setup would be the go. It would have better efficiency than the old positive displacement unit on the 4agze and would favour the high-revving nature of the engine. A turbo would require an unequal-length header, which would make the car sound like any lumpy old WRX. A supercharger would leave the exhaust untouched and could be packaged neatly at the front of the engine.
And yea, All for KERS and saving the planet or whatever, but bring the technology in through the heavy Lexus cruisers first.
limited edition run with full sti running gear , turbo motor and AWD
@321 You are a sick human being...
Well since I don't see the Toyota side of things getting away from the boat anchor flat 4 anytime soon... 2.2L, same compression, ITB's and VVTi... That should get it around 250 horse. Too bad it will beat itself apart in 80 thousand miles...
@JDMized I'm not entirely sure why you're such a douche... but it's totally redundant, and pointless.
from what i am told subaru will be coming out with a turbo'd version of this car next year. toyota will not. for those of you that think this car should be AWD or have a different power plant your obviously missing the point and/or haven't even taken one for a drive.
The BRZ has potential to really make this thing stick for years to come with a turbo. With any luck they'll go back to unequal length headers since the power loss is marginal and it would help define the brz as a Subie.
supposed to be a simple rwd car that gets back to the basics of man and machine and the connection that comes from driving a car like this..same idea when BMW hit the nail on the head with the Z4 M Coupe!! No electric steering, no frills, clean natural throttle response,etc etc. Please keep it simple, were already looking at a classic exactly how it sits right now.....Turbo, that is why there is an aftermarket!!
they should bring out a 6th gen 3s-ge, n/a with about 250ish horses, make it a proper toyota, no more of this collaboration with subaru!
Why not combine supercharger and turbo like volkswagen does? They compensate each other
I think the engine is almost fine, just not rev-happy enough. Maybe lightening the internals, raising the rev limit a bit and shortening the gears, in combination with a lighter flywheel would help.
That's for Toyota, I am absolutely fine with Subaru doing a turbocharged version of the car.
BevinWhite is right. u would expect more. its a bare, RWD, 2700lb coupe. Its a tuner platform. sounds great! but wait its powered by a 4-cyl 2.0L boxer pushing only 200bhp that is near impossible to squeeze more power out of it. I looked at an FR-S at the dealer. It is gorgeous. But honestly its very weak and its honestly very overprised. And dont forget, this is a brand new car so aftermarket parts of any kind are very very expensive. Its just not worth it unless it has a better powerplant.
And this KERS idea is rediculous. You have an underpowered engine.........so you're gonna add KERS?! KERS was developed to prevent overtaking in F1....so it'll jus give u some power on tap when someone is riding ur rear. This is rediculous. Its just being "cost effective."
I'd like to see multiple versions, a turbocharged or supercharged version, but maybe a NA version that is a little more rev happy and maybe something like "lift" would set it off. The brz would be nice turbocharged and the 86 supercharged? I think to keep it pure it needs to be NA but there is no reason why they couldn't have a base model, a sporty force inducted model and then another sporty NA model?
Also i think unequal length headers would be nice in the faster models in the brz range.
It still boggles my mind why Toyota would partner with Subaru on this and not use Subaru's turbocharged engines that they already produce. I mean the engines were already sitting in Subaru's factory so it would have saved both companies so much money and made them so much more money on the sales side. Just my two cents
More NA powers, to stay true to the 86 heritage.A turbo version could be pretty cool too, but preferably only on the Subaru.KERS on the other hand is not something I'm a fan of, it's too complicated, and it will make it harder to modify the car, and it's also pretty expensive tech.
There are several people already making decent power with these things.
Here in Indianapolis, I saw one from IL at Lucas Oil Raceway Park running low 10's at 132-134mph. Obviously turbocharged and on good tires.
this is pathetic. period
@Inline6ness @321 I was just thinking about the DMAC 86 (13B turbo, I know) and Hugo Maclean's 86 from D1NZ and thought that it might work with the new 86/FRS/BRZ as it would maintain the low center of gravity and weight distribution while delivering more power.
@321 @Inline6ness ... then the stock engine.
Make a rev-happier NA 86 version for the driving enthusiasts, and a turbo BRZ for fanboys. Case closed.
NA is best!
NA is the only way!
They should go the other way, and sell a 'lightweight', with a stripped interior, thinner glass, a carbon roof, and a roll-cage ready dash. No radio, no spare tire... just right.
i think trd should do a supercharger, sti should do a turbo and they should keep the brz/86 exactly how it is keep KERS away from it.
I want them to build an entirely new engine in this car...
@varilight Getting passed by station wagons and minivans is no fun.
N/A is fun. But a factory turbo makes tuning much easier. It makes mods have much higher gains. This makes tuning more fun. All of the bolt on's for a modern N/A is not going to give very much power at all. But on a turbo car a few simple mods can have huge gains. It is not like the old day where header, intake and exhaust could get noticeable gains. Anything short of a rebuild with higher compression is not going make a difference. This car is not light enough for a 2.0L N/A to ever make it fast. People forget that the GT Apex 86 was very light and had very good power at the time 130ps in a 2300lb car. That is better power to weight then some sports cars at the time. That doesn't work when station wagon, minivans, and suv have retarded hp. Toyota has plenty of good engines like the 2jz or the 3S-GTE. Why they made used this awful engine is beyond me.
@ColtReid Sorry 'bout the ego, Colt, but Mercedes built the E63 AMG wagon specifically for impotent bald guys to piss off kids in sports cars, and to go faster stock on the street, you'll need a 400hp car. Asking for this car to beat out AMG wagons is childish and naive, and isn't going to happen.
This poll is pointless because they're not going to add forced induction to the car. The aftermarket has plenty of power adders, and I suggest you all use them. I'm looking forward to the Vortech centrifugal supercharger and the Sprintex/Innovate Motorsports twin screw supercharger!
@Mattsda Why? The engine is incredibly robust. Tuners are making over 500whp with this engine, not even the EJ257 can do that without needing work to the engine block.
@Jakuntzman Why? The FA20 is extremely robust; tuners are getting over 500whp out of them. The EJ257 can't do that on stock internals...
@zamm333 TRD makes a supercharger already. They have as an option for the Scion xB and tC
@Corey K You assume too much. SportCompactCar started the initiative that got Subaru to bring the WRX stateside. I was one of the people that put a deposit down on the wrx i 'couldn't buy', and it most certainly worked. Club4ag.com was included in the release of the FT86, because they championed the car... If speedhunters polls resulted in universal demand (rather than cynicism), it could result in a direct response from Toyota.
@ColtReid This is all very true, however the 3SG and 2JZ, as good as they are, are weapons of the old guard. Would love to see them use an all-alloy conventional straight 4 along the lines of the 2ZZ-GE (but with 2.0 displacement) with ~11-12:1 compression and dual VVTL-I with high lift secondaries and direct injection. The largest car manufacturer in the world shouldn't have to steal someone else's engine to power the revival of one of their most famous ever cars. 86 should be all Toyota's doing.
More N/A power, to keep it a real drivers car. It is just a matter of time when there are good turbo's for these cars. Don't make it to complicated, just make it a good car, not a horsepower beast. It does not fit the car.
It's funny to me that people are talking about the car needing more power. I'm coming from a ~150whp S13 and was not unimpressed with the power. It's plenty to go fast in the twisties; it'll probably be a little anemic once you start adding altitude but it allows you to keep the car on boil and in the realm of fun without requiring wider tires.
Once you start adding power, you'll have to start adding width to the wheels and tires, and once you do that, you lose a little precision, a little of the accessibility of limits at lower speeds- you take away from the purpose of the car, which is to be fun at "legal" speeds.
The car needs better steering feel and damper tuning first. Take the money that could go toward horsepower and give the car some real steering feel and soften the ride up a tad, so one can haul ass on SoCal roads without constantly going into bump understeer and bump oversteer. I've determined that in order for me to actually like the car, and actually purchase the car, I would need to buy Whiteline's front end pieces to the tune of ~$510 and have a set of Bilsteins custom-valved to the car for the addition of another two grand. All of a sudden, a $25k car is a $27.5k car, and I'm paying 10% more to get a car the way it should've come from the factory.
How many of you have actually driven the car? How many of you understand its weaknesses first-hand?
@SOneThreeCoupe Exactly. As they say "power is nothing without control"...not that many RWD hipsters understand that.
Far too much whining about how the car should conform to some bizarre notion of 'purity' by conforming to one type of brand-based mechanical arrangement or another. Far too few people objectively thinking about what the best way to boost this car's power would be.
Getting significantly more N/A power seems unlikely given the cost/benefit ratio along with the need to pass emissions and keep a warranty etc. although a few choice refinements to the N/A engine along with significant lightening of the car could prove to be an interesting approach. Likely more fun to drive but likely not much faster.
The good news here is that it's already quite easy for an enthusiast to do this themselves. All one needs to do is get an ECUtek reflash and a lightweight exhaust and start taking things off the car and/or swapping in lighter components.
If it's increased power we're after then turbocharging seems to be the most efficient option though. Superchargers on this car so far have been pretty disappointing and the parastic drag's effect of efficiency would probably make it a no-go for a production car.
A turbo system on the other hand, especially a small and fast spooling turbo, would fatten up the car's low end torque nicely while adding a lttle extra to the top end without sacrificing much in the way of responsiveness or efficiency. There'd also be plenty of headroom to easily and cheaply get more power out of a turbo system should Toyota, Subaru or owners wish to do so.
I can't think of when the KERS system would ever be beneficial in daily driving except rarely, i.e. in a 'push to pass' situation, which would mean that you're only carrying around extra weight and complexity 80% of the time while still routinely getting smoked by 370Zs, if not Camrys, in a straight line.
Why are people hating on KERS?? besides the complication ,which I'm sure that all the carb guys were saying when EFI was introduced, we can learn something new people. If it's good enough for F1 & Le Mans prototypes, it's good enough for me. Just along as cost are still reasonable. Toyota has obviously taken the efficiency and emissions of their vehicles as a priority. If they can make it were its electric at low speeds AND press to pass I could see myself having a lot of with that in everyday driving.
KERS didn't look too reliable today in Austin... just saying.
KERS didn't look too reliable today in Austin... just saying.
@patmald Why going with KERS? KERS is complicating a simple car... Complicating to have a boost of 3 or 4 seconds at a cost of 50 or 60kg (maybe more) of weight, wich spoils the car.... Adding just 30kg, you can get a turbo system that not only gives MUCH more power than KERS, but also gives that extra power ALL the time, not just a few seconds...So yeah... Why having a Less powerfull, heavier, and overcomplicated car, when you can a have a more powerfull, simpler and more reliable one?
@patmald Why going with KERS? KERS is complicating a simple car... Complicating to have a boost of 3 or 4 seconds at a cost of 50 or 60kg (maybe more) of weight, wich spoils the car.... Adding just 30kg, you can get a turbo system that not only gives MUCH more power than KERS, but also gives that extra power ALL the time, not just a few seconds...So yeah... Why having a Less powerfull, heavier, and overcomplicated car, when you can a have a more powerfull, simpler and more reliable one?
For me, a strong benchmark of good NA power is the S54 M3 engine. Of course, There's plenty more examples, but that driving experience is tattooed in my brain. No fuss, just turn key n go!!
For me, a strong benchmark of good NA power is the S54 M3 engine. Of course, There's plenty more examples, but that driving experience is tattooed in my brain. No fuss, just turn key n go!!
I think Subaru and Toyota should both mod their joint platform separately.
Offering different variants of the same car as well as the standard model for those who want to start from scratch and go full house or sleeper.
I think all 4 options are viable with KERS being the obvious future step for Toyota and Turbo for Subaru.
N/A is always going to be tough for a manufacturer to go super hi-po with, as it rapidly reduces the lifespan of the car which consumers still expect a certain usable life from.
The aftermarket is only just getting into these vehicles now due to the low supply numbers, but I think Toyota and Subaru would be foolish to not take advantage of the imaginations they have captured already.
I think Subaru and Toyota should both mod their joint platform separately.
Offering different variants of the same car as well as the standard model for those who want to start from scratch and go full house or sleeper.
I think all 4 options are viable with KERS being the obvious future step for Toyota and Turbo for Subaru.
N/A is always going to be tough for a manufacturer to go super hi-po with, as it rapidly reduces the lifespan of the car which consumers still expect a certain usable life from.
The aftermarket is only just getting into these vehicles now due to the low supply numbers, but I think Toyota and Subaru would be foolish to not take advantage of the imaginations they have captured already.
i would change out all stock and highly mod it to a turbocharge setup
i would change out all stock and highly mod it to a turbocharge setup
Who's gonna be the first to swap in turbo Porsche motor? Like 993 Turbo S... 420 air cooled horsepower for the win.
Who's gonna be the first to swap in turbo Porsche motor? Like 993 Turbo S... 420 air cooled horsepower for the win.
@kscf31 @zamm333 Indeed TRD has a supercharger kit available for other engines, but not for this little boxer4. I think forced induction is the most logical route to more power. Whether it's from a turbo or supercharger, it makes the most sense.
@kscf31 @zamm333 Indeed TRD has a supercharger kit available for other engines, but not for this little boxer4. I think forced induction is the most logical route to more power. Whether it's from a turbo or supercharger, it makes the most sense.
SR20.
SR20.
@jdmattire Whilst a turbo is inevitable I feel it doesn’t need more power. More power could ruin the driver orientated experience.
How about toyota ditches the Subaru engine? Why not hand Yamaha a Honda K20 and tell them to make it better? Then put it into the FRS. Yamaha has a history of making AWESOME engines for Toyota how about do it again.
if this car was really meant to follow the spirit of their predecessor, NA or SC.
@patmald Because KERS isn't a solution to new horsepower, its a solution to shut the people screaming F1 isn't green enough.
@JoaoOliveira you guys don't realize the battery technology that Toyota is co-developing with Tesla, the technology is there(i.e. porsche 918). It becomes a question of production. Toyota already said it has ft86 prototype with a type of KERS. Also Toyota is starting to revive its sports car lineup so guarantee that Toyota holds off on power so it can slot it underneath the expected entry supra or whatever they decide to call it. Toyota also has said that turbocharging would be unwise this day and age because carbon emissions would be too high. I mean instant full torque is way better than turbo lag. A hybrid/KERS type of system can have a lot of potential(i.e. porsche's 918) if developed correctly and knowing Toyota they'll do that, look how long they took the LFA and the ft86 we see today.
@JoaoOliveira you guys don't realize the battery technology that Toyota is co-developing with Tesla, the technology is there(i.e. porsche 918). It becomes a question of production. Toyota already said it has ft86 prototype with a type of KERS. Also Toyota is starting to revive its sports car lineup so guarantee that Toyota holds off on power so it can slot it underneath the expected entry supra or whatever they decide to call it. Toyota also has said that turbocharging would be unwise this day and age because carbon emissions would be too high. I mean instant full torque is way better than turbo lag. A hybrid/KERS type of system can have a lot of potential(i.e. porsche's 918) if developed correctly and knowing Toyota they'll do that, look how long they took the LFA and the ft86 we see today.
@JoaoOliveira you guys don't realize the battery technology that Toyota is co-developing with Tesla, the technology is there(i.e. porsche 918). It becomes a question of production. Toyota already said it has ft86 prototype with a type of KERS. Also Toyota is starting to revive its sports car lineup so guarantee that Toyota holds off on power so it can slot it underneath the expected entry supra or whatever they decide to call it. Toyota also has said that turbocharging would be unwise this day and age because carbon emissions would be too high. I mean instant full torque is way better than turbo lag. A hybrid/KERS type of system can have a lot of potential(i.e. porsche's 918) if developed correctly and knowing Toyota they'll do that, look how long they took the LFA and the ft86 we see today.
@JoaoOliveira you guys don't realize the battery technology that Toyota is co-developing with Tesla, the technology is there(i.e. porsche 918). It becomes a question of production. Toyota already said it has ft86 prototype with a type of KERS. Also Toyota is starting to revive its sports car lineup so guarantee that Toyota holds off on power so it can slot it underneath the expected entry supra or whatever they decide to call it. Toyota also has said that turbocharging would be unwise this day and age because carbon emissions would be too high. I mean instant full torque is way better than turbo lag. A hybrid/KERS type of system can have a lot of potential(i.e. porsche's 918) if developed correctly and knowing Toyota they'll do that, look how long they took the LFA and the ft86 we see today.
@JoaoOliveira you guys don't realize the battery technology that Toyota is co-developing with Tesla, the technology is there(i.e. porsche 918). It becomes a question of production. Toyota already said it has ft86 prototype with a type of KERS. Also Toyota is starting to revive its sports car lineup so guarantee that Toyota holds off on power so it can slot it underneath the expected entry supra or whatever they decide to call it. Toyota also has said that turbocharging would be unwise this day and age because carbon emissions would be too high. I mean instant full torque is way better than turbo lag. A hybrid/KERS type of system can have a lot of potential(i.e. porsche's 918) if developed correctly and knowing Toyota they'll do that, look how long they took the LFA and the ft86 we see today.
@JoaoOliveira you guys don't realize the battery technology that Toyota is co-developing with Tesla, the technology is there(i.e. porsche 918). It becomes a question of production. Toyota already said it has ft86 prototype with a type of KERS. Also Toyota is starting to revive its sports car lineup so guarantee that Toyota holds off on power so it can slot it underneath the expected entry supra or whatever they decide to call it. Toyota also has said that turbocharging would be unwise this day and age because carbon emissions would be too high. I mean instant full torque is way better than turbo lag. A hybrid/KERS type of system can have a lot of potential(i.e. porsche's 918) if developed correctly and knowing Toyota they'll do that, look how long they took the LFA and the ft86 we see today.
@JoaoOliveira you guys don't realize the battery technology that Toyota is co-developing with Tesla, the technology is there(i.e. porsche 918). It becomes a question of production. Toyota already said it has ft86 prototype with a type of KERS. Also Toyota is starting to revive its sports car lineup so guarantee that Toyota holds off on power so it can slot it underneath the expected entry supra or whatever they decide to call it. Toyota also has said that turbocharging would be unwise this day and age because carbon emissions would be too high. I mean instant full torque is way better than turbo lag. A hybrid/KERS type of system can have a lot of potential(i.e. porsche's 918) if developed correctly and knowing Toyota they'll do that, look how long they took the LFA and the ft86 we see today.
@JoaoOliveira you guys don't realize the battery technology that Toyota is co-developing with Tesla, the technology is there(i.e. porsche 918). It becomes a question of production. Toyota already said it has ft86 prototype with a type of KERS. Also Toyota is starting to revive its sports car lineup so guarantee that Toyota holds off on power so it can slot it underneath the expected entry supra or whatever they decide to call it. Toyota also has said that turbocharging would be unwise this day and age because carbon emissions would be too high. I mean instant full torque is way better than turbo lag. A hybrid/KERS type of system can have a lot of potential(i.e. porsche's 918) if developed correctly and knowing Toyota they'll do that, look how long they took the LFA and the ft86 we see today.
@JoaoOliveira you guys don't realize the battery technology that Toyota is co-developing with Tesla, the technology is there(i.e. porsche 918). It becomes a question of production. Toyota already said it has ft86 prototype with a type of KERS. Also Toyota is starting to revive its sports car lineup so guarantee that Toyota holds off on power so it can slot it underneath the expected entry supra or whatever they decide to call it. Toyota also has said that turbocharging would be unwise this day and age because carbon emissions would be too high. I mean instant full torque is way better than turbo lag. A hybrid/KERS type of system can have a lot of potential(i.e. porsche's 918) if developed correctly and knowing Toyota they'll do that, look how long they took the LFA and the ft86 we see today.
Throw away the crappy subaru engine, remove all subaru influence of any kind including killing the entire brz model and acting like it never existed, treat the 2012/2013 models as the undesirable inferior stepchild version of the fr-s. And build it with an actual Toyota engine like they should've in the first place. Nobody can even pretend that subaru engines are anything but a pathetically weak shadow of Toyota's expertise.
What does subaru even bring for Toyota? Turboing? AWD? Wagons? No, Toyota had them all long before and is much better at it anyway. A clientele of white sububanite american yuppies who think they are eco conscious and nonconformists? No, Toyota already has the Prius for that. Time for Toyota to trade subaru away or let it die out. Subaru doesn't even rally anymore and their biggest seller is an ugly POS suv/crossover thing (which again, Toyota has covered with the highlander and rav4).
Dude, please stop being a dipstick.
Toyota isn't going to retool and make a boxer engine solely for the FR-S- and there's no room for an inline engine unless you laid it on its side. You have seen an FR-S up close with the hood up, right?
@SOneThreeCoupe You are joking right? There is already one GT86 with a 2jz and one with a 2ur swapped in them. And my interpretation of what pstar is saying is that Toyota should NOT use that shitbox flat 4 at all (which is what I have said all along...) and that they should use one of their own engines.
@SOneThreeCoupe You are joking right? There is already one GT86 with a 2jz and one with a 2ur swapped in them. And my interpretation of what pstar is saying is that Toyota should NOT use that shitbox flat 4 at all (which is what I have said all along...) and that they should use one of their own engines.
@Inline6ness Well crap, you have me there.
Remove the flat 4 and you change the whole car. I guess I just don't get some of you and your obsession with horsepower.
@SOneThreeCoupe @Inline6ness Power is nothing without control. The best way that's both relatively cheap and safer in the long run is improving the cars handling which in return gives you more usable powerband.
@apex_DNA @SOneThreeCoupe I agree that power is nothing without control... And the both those cars I'm talking about are built to drift so they are just hideously overpowered. The thing that bugs me about wanting to stay true to the Sports 800 with the boxer engine is that, Toyota only ever built that one car with a boxer, and then realized that it was too costly and not the way they wanted to go. It's not like it's a deep seated part of their heritage. And, I'm not obsessed with horsepower, but when you have such a capable chassis why not give it all the power it can handle. And the last thing I will say here is this... Honda once put an inline 6 in a motorcycle, BMW puts its inline 6 engines in at a slant for COG purposes and TOYOTA used both K and S family 4 cylinders at big slant to get it low and clear hoods.
@321 If they could make a rotary engine that didn't eat itself alive and could live past 80k without needing a rebuild, I would say hell yeah.
@Inline6ness Now if you really want a driver's car, keep the high compression boxer the way it is (think of it as if AE86 had a kid with a Porsche, the interior already looks like one), but further reduce overall weight (down to 2200 pounds), make it even more maintenance and modification friendly, introduce double-wishbone suspension up front, and you have a winner.
@Inline6ness Now if you really want a driver's car, keep the high compression boxer the way it is (think of it as if AE86 had a kid with a Porsche, the interior already looks like one), but further reduce overall weight (down to 2200 pounds), make it even more maintenance and modification friendly, introduce double-wishbone suspension up front, and you have a winner.
@Inline6ness @321 It wouldn't be the ideal engine for a production car but I think it would make for a sweet track or drift car.
What about the 1GR-FE that is found in the Toyota Tacoma and FJ Cruiser? It is a 4.0L V6 but it does share the same bore as the 3.5L 2GR-FE that is found in the Camry and Sienna. It's an aluminium block and the Dual VVT-i version puts out 254 hp and 270 lbft of torque on 87 octane and 285 hp and 289 lbft of torque on premium. TRD also offers a supercharger kit for the 4.0L that increases power and torque to 304 and 334. It would get good fuel economy and has already be developed which would save Toyota time and resources for getting it on the market.
@apex_DNA I think 2500lbs is the best they're going to get before things start getting expensive... but yes, lighter is better. But yeah if they stay boxer, I already said up towards the top; 2.2L, same compression and direct injection, vvti and individual throttle bodies. A snappy high strung na that is still as reliable as a flat 4 can be. 250hp and 2500lbs would be pretty bitchin for an affordable rear drive scion. And they need some proper tires on it too.