For those that have been holding out for a faster version of the Subaru BRZ, it looks like you may be in luck. According to Auto Express, Subaru’s marketing manager Atoshi Atake has confirmed that plans are being made for a production version of the BRZ STI. While it won’t be the turbocharged monster that some were expecting, Atake says the STI would be powered by a tweaked version of the car’s current NA boxer motor making around 250hp. Naturally, it will also feature a lightened body and some of the other upgrades seen on the BRZ STI concept cars.
What are your thoughts on a naturally aspirated STI? How about 250hp? Not enough power, or just right?
-Mike Garrett
Source: Auto Express
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"You can always use more power"
-Jeremy Clarkson
Wonder why they are so against turbo charging. Maybe the engine is unsuccessful when boosted. Is that why the D cars are running cosworth Ej motors? I'm curious to see how they hold up without changing internals.. Guess we have to see.
We need a turbo monster, no other option.
How much is it, $40k usd?
STi's should always be boosted! While 250hp may be sufficient for a car this size, why not just go the traditional 300hp/300trq EJ25 route? Or at least get it up to current WRX power..
more power! 250 horses is 25hp less than a stock impreza sti! the brz should be at the very least 300
that would make the 0-60 times drop from 7.3 seconds to low 6 - the slowest car to wear an sti badge and likely the most expensive.
It should've been AWD.
Until they are willing to just PUT an STi engine in there (likely never) I think an STi swap will be very popular with these cars, no matter what for years to come. @ Hawk- Of course they would rather have N/A power a wrx/sti engine that hasn't been reinforced and isn't driven by an old lady is a ticking time bomb everyone knows that.
Sounds perfect to be. I prefer an NA engine.
Too bad I probably won't be able to get one. Subaru is only shipping 6000 to the US.
no it should not have been AWD. They have the impreza for that. We want drifty subaru
300hp would me beter... 50hp over the stock car isn't that much.... 300hp, would make it a 370z, and porsche boxter killer almost but cheaper.... would sell a lot.
only 250 r u jokin me weak subaru so weak they need to turbo it
I'm surprised no one hasn't commented on the fact that the engine would be producing 25% more power with no forced induction, that's pretty impressive figures for a 2 litre NA unit, especially over the stock power.
WAAAAAAH TURBO FANS, GET OVER IT.
250 hp is impressive naturally aspirated, but I'm not sure it is worthy of the STi badge unless it is turbocharged and/or AWD. Still wouldn't complain if I had one though.
250 bhp form a NA 2L boxer engine....worth waiting.
It will make it more capable than the frs with 50 more horses
Not. Enough.
It's funny how so many people bitch and moan and never intend on buying the car.
Think about it kiddos....I'm sure they never considered turbocharging or producing more than 250hp out of the STI version. What would you get if they did? A <$30k car that's lighter and faster than their flagship, the nearly $40k Impreza WRX STI; not gonna happen. 250hp from a 2L N/A is impressive! This car will be a blast to drive as is!
i was hoping they'd put a turbocharger in it to put out at least 300- 325 horses
kinda lazy
Sweet
Sweet
I'd rather see a hopped up N/A 3.6. They are a smooth power plant that I'm sure would put out over 300hp and with their placement, could maintain an excellent weight distribution.
Needs a TURBO!!!
Not enough power, but close. It could use 20-30 more and be fine. Personally, I want to see a more aggressive body kit on the STi version. They didn't make enough visual changes between the two cars for Scion and Subaru.
Xander's comment is spot on.. I personally think 50hp more than the base version, without forced induction, is awesome. That power level combined with the agility these cars will more than likely have, should make for a very balanced recipe of fun.
I can't recall one enthusiast car where people thought it came with "enough" horsepower stock.
Personally, I would prefer a turbo for the relative ease of upgrades. Also STI has a pretty solid reputation for being turbo -- I would like to see that trend continue.
I will have one!
naturally aspirated no
250 hp hmm
power would be just right if it were boosted
I work for a Toyota dealer. We were told yesterday that the FR-S can have up to 300hp from TRD bolt ons and will cost under $30k. They would not say if it was a TRD turbo or super charger kit. The Sti version will be worthless if it costs 40k usd.
Just right. 250 can be great fun in a nicely balanced car with low weight. Use the revs and enjoy life.
I'm excited for it! I'm a little sad that it's not turbocharged however, More power and less weight in already such a highly touted car sounds like music to my ears =)
Depends on the weight really. Hope it will have a nice torque curve as well.
Must have turbo!
Needs a turbo, bad.
An NA car is a lot more forgiving and part of the reason why the original corolla was so successful. Fun to drive and easy to learn on. A real enthusiast who's graduated from 250hp would turbo their own car anyways if they wanted it rather than ask or wait for one. There would be no need for aftermarket if all cars had enough power from the factory lol
@ well, it's suposed to be a driving machine, and for pure driving fun na is always better then turbo.
I don't have a problem with it having 250hp. The whole thing about the BRZ/86/FR-S was that they excel in handling. It may have less power than any of the Impreza STI's but it could probably out handle one no problem. This is of course, my opinion. I like low power.
Boost it! In reality 280-300 hp isn't enough but just give us a factory turbo at around 280 and some ECU work will get it to the proper numbers of around 350hp
250hp NA is a pretty damn decent by my clock.
You guys sound like the way I thought when I was 12 reading car magazines thinking every car should have at least 400hp. Clearly none of you have ever really driven a good chassis before. It'll be too expensive, but I can't wait to get one on the used market down the road...
ITS NOT AWD GET OVER IT, ITS NOT TURBO GET OVER IT, ITS NOT FOR EVERYONE GET OVER IT
They are saying that the turbo is too difficult to package in this chassis; that there is no room for it or an intercooler. If it's more than a WRX STi they're outta their minda.
Dont believe everything Autoexpress writes ...
I think the main reason they won't turbo it is because it will kill the impreza STI, the same reason mitsu never made an eclipse with the evo 8/9 drivetrain
More power, that's not even on par with a WRX and this carries the STI badge as well. I think a turbo would do it well, and a more aggressive body kit would be a nice addition too. It's 15hp less than a WRX and 100hp more than a stock impreza. C'mon Subaru, that's weak.
yeeeah turbo and awd fans that's not the car for you...
NA is good for a well balance light car like that and a better throttle response.
this wasn't made to be a rallycar or a gt ,the 86 is just made for having fun ,cheap simple fun.
wth is wrong with the EJ257 engine from wrx sti Atoshi Atake!?!?!?!
stick that in, tweak the suspension to suit, it will sell like hotcakes!
250 on NA engine and light chassis seem fun for me, you guys always stuck with high power can u handle it??? 250 NA engine alot fun than you imagine guys......
It needs to be turbo, i dont know if they are having issues with the direct injection when boosted or what but there should be no reason not to offer a turbocharged 300+rwhp version.
everyones been wanting it for YEARS and its 1/2 failing....the brz/86/frs thing is like Gran Turismo 5...long awaited, and not near expectations.
JUST CANT PLEASE ALL THE WHINERS...BOOO HOO EVERYONE
Straightline accleration has never been a thrill in the Impreza either. It's all about handling.
Think about it. The Impreza produces approximately 300 hp, weighs 3-400 kilograms more than the BRZ and has all wheel drive. Looking at those parameters the obvious choice is naturally a lower power output in the BRZ STI to stay in check with the rest of the range and stay drivable for the young crowd it aims to attract.
Let's hope they can push up the newtonmeters to around 250 as well, I suspect that might be difficult ...
I think people need to have reasonable expectations of the BRZ/GT ... the whole point of the car is it's supposed to be affordable fun. Sure, they could make it a 400bhp evo killer, but that would cost a lot more. Take it for what it is, if you don't like it buy something you do like.
300HP + SUBARU + AWD + STi + Coupe = WIN!! This is so simple. The US never had an STi coupe! We wants one!!!!!!!!!!!
250hp NA should be interesting and I'm sure great for what the car is supposed to represent. For all of those who are saying it should be awd turbo go get a sti.
TURBOCHARGE IT! we need a new silvia, easy to tune and willing to drift!
Impressive power figure for a factory 2l NA. Power to weight should make for a quick enough car, so I'm keen to see what it can do.
That's not enough turbo. Yes 250 na from a 2l boxer is impressive and all that, and I do have mad respect for NA engines, but I've said it before and I'll say it again, STI is one of the few badges left that actually mean something, and that something is turbo performance. As Alex pointed out, it would be one of the lowest hp and slowest STI ever released, and also probably one of the priciest. Even if its only a gentlemanly 276 hp, an STI must have turbo performance. Torque, Power delivery, and fuel economy (yes, even fuel economy) would be better from a 276hp turbo 2l boxer than it would be from a 250hp na 2l boxer. If Subaru builds an STI, there is no good reason for it not to be turbo. My prediction is that if Subaru builds an expensive low output NA STI it will be a huge sales flop as performance minded buyers turbo their non-STI cars for more power at less cost.
xD
NA will be good.. Leave turbo chargers for the aftermarket.
1) This is NOT an Impreza, but a totally different car. So it's legit that they make things a little different this time.
2) If you're not happy, you can either : buy an Impreza (but try the BRZ first), go aftermarket or go for swap
3) Considering at this time that all previous NA EJ20s never went more than 160-170 hp, the potential of this EJ20's generation seems very promising.
It's a surprise to me they didn't go through turbo for the STI, but it's a good surprise indeed.
Sounds like enough for the weight. Bet it will scream like a Porsche 911 RS
Some fanboys gotta realize the 'T' in STI doesn't stand for turbo.
Lotus Elise are around 190hp & 900kg (depending on model), and are a true track car with 0 creature comforts. 250hp at around 1250kg with all the comforts sounds pretty damn ok to me. Strip out some weight and you'd undoubtedly have a capable track or drift car, and a fantastic base to add a little more power if needed!
People keep forgetting that this car isn't simply about POWER. The focus is on handling dynamics. There are plenty of 600hp beasts out there that are fun in their own right but have all the handling dynamics of a beached whale. If that's what gets you going, fantastic, but if you're more interested in a (relatively) light weight chuck-able machine, this will probably float your boat
Not bad. 250 hp NA!!
This means with some tweaking, the BRZ and FRS will make some nice power in NA form!
@ Ethan: Calm down with the caps man. No need to yell. This is a comments section, for um... opinions... "Get over it"
@ XD: Couldn't have said it better myself!
i'm sure that once u see this car compete in drifting competitions we'll start to see 1uz swaps or 1jz or even ej20's stuffed under the hood. i can't wait to see this car get sideways in person
TURBOS are what made subaru what it is today. I know its a purist handling car, but i wanna pull outta those corners too!!
I read an interview with Subaru CEO where he said they have no plans to turbo the BRZ (there simply isn't any room considering how they wedged the motor in) and that this 250hp-ish model won't even wear the STI badge so everyone chill out. BRZ will never get 300hp, not unless the STI goes up market with 400+hp and added luxuries to compete with something like the M3/RS4. My guess is that the tuned BRZ will be around $30-32k.
Because they will not turbo it, and they made the car specific for this motor, I think it would benefit them to stroke the motor to 2.2L. Assuming they could achieve the same hp/liter that could bring the power to 275. With a weight decrease of say 100lbs? the tuned BRZ could then be priced with the STI and have similar power/weight ratio. One car is the 2dr sports car, light, nimble and the other is the 4dr rally car, beefy, rugged.
I think the base BRZ is a tad overpriced for the amount of power. Yes the handling and everything else is amazing, but the power is too low for 25,500. civic si and gold gti both have around 200hp with one costing 22ish and the other 24. Also the genesis coupe is slightly cheaper with 275hp. In the grand scheme of marketing to the general guy, power means a lot more than it does to true car enthusiasts. As the goal of a car maker is to sell a lot, having the BRZ slot in at 23 would have been great.
in the name of Clarkson...
"POOOOOWWWARRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
280 turbo hp will kill everything in it's class. But if they make it a 250hp i think they are planing to profit by selling the parts for the others 200hp brz's to become 250. And they will use the same engine in order to safe money from creating a new one. Better fit the 2.0 300hp engine from jdm imprezas. I'm sorry for my english.
Lol the kiddies lets put this into perspective. An NA Supra, puts out around 130hp no mods, has a bit of pull and weighs and drives like a boat. A 250hp NA boxer on a light chassis will be great fun. I'm all for a turbo version. But it seems many of you actually have no idea.
STI = Lots of extra money for bugger all.....In Australia the STI WRX cost a heap more than standard WRX. If you spent that cash on upgrades you would have a much better car.
I think that 250 hp on a light car with a NA engine would be perfect. Lets not forget the very first M3 E30, which in many minds was a perfect car.
And I would expect a TURBO version with much more power than that.
If VW can sell million of 1.2 TSI I would really want to see a BRZ Turbo with 2 or three turbines having well over 400 hp!
A 2l engine with 250HP makes me think of the S2000 : nothing happens before 6000rpm. A turbo would give the extra torque and a few more HP. Why not simply use the 2.5l ?
Let us not forget the lesson learned from Mazda's RX8 Na Renesis rotary. It was redesigned (same as Subaru's new 2l boxer), made way more power than an na 13b could, although less than the stock 13b turbo (same as Subaru's new 2l boxer), was touted as not needing a turbo because blah blah blah (same as Subaru's new 2l boxer) and then when it came out it turned out buyers wanted that sweet 13b turbo power after all and sales were abysmal. Was the RX8 a crap car? Arguably no, it was quite good. Could it have easily been better? Absoltutely, same as Subaru's new 2l boxer.
Abarth mentioned that this 250hp na 2l will not be an STI. If that is the case then I have no qualms at all with it and I welcome it. If it is to be STI, then all I've said stands as valid and true.
xD
Who are these people calling a an EJ engine a time bomb? My DD stage 2 WRX just hit 250,000km last week and I beat the hell out of it daily. Maintenance people!!!
quite obvious marketing. First tweak the NA engine. Sell those. Then turbocharge the engiene. A Sell those.
Step by step. Everypody body would want to milk a platform like this
they should make this a wrx model, and then a 300hp sti model
Maybe Nissan will wake up and start producing S-chassis' again.. Who knows.
I still think they should throw the Outback/Tribeca 6cylinder under and make a few updates to it.
I would seriously consider ditching some of my current subies for a RWD 6cylinder 6speed car, with that Porsche-esque flat-6 exhaust note.
@ DK: HHmmm, definition of fanboy: a person willing to defend and promote the object of his affection regardless of fact and objectivity... Is it just me or do people need to learn the meaning of the words they use? It may not mean "turbo", but every car to wear the STi badge has been turbocharged. Please correct me if I am mistaken. If I am correct, your comment has been rendered null and void, due to this "fact". Not to mention that as XD stated, while a 2L NA engine producing 250hp is impressive, if they release this as planned, it would be a slap in the face to the STi badge.
I would love to get an EZ36R version of the BRZ, but the 250hp 4 cl will do.
Put the 300HP Sti motor and leave it rear wheel drive
sure you guys are thinking "thats 50 less then the impreza STI" but you have to understand with that power being delivered to only the rear wheels, not to mention how light the car is, it will probably pull the impreza no problem.
Balance people, the philosophy behind this car is balance. No doubt it's a fantastic chassis that could handle more power but does it need it to be fun? I also agree with the earlier comments about how Subaru can't make it faster than a WRX STi, same reason the 1 Series M isn't faster than it is. This also isn't purely a Subaru.
Sounds good that a Sti version is on the way to produce. BUT... 250hp sounds not so good.
They can call it BRZ-S or something like that...but not Sti!
50hp more and no Turbo?!
280hp - 300hp is that i agree with and i will pay for it! Not for the 250hp NA then i bought an WRX Sti
STI is not just an Impreza trim level it means Subaru Tecnica International you know their tuning arm. If they can get a hard hitting 250hp all motor BRZ it's worthy of the STI name. Every car with an STI badge has been AWD too! Change people it's not always a bad thing.
Who here likes math? Ok, the 2011 impreza sti is 3385 lbs and 305 hp. 3385 divided by 305 is 11.1 lbs per horse. The base BRZ is 2750lbs. 2750/250hp is 11 lbs per horse!!!!! And that's the Base BRZ without sti weight reduction and without factoring in mechanical loss in the AWD of the impreza. I don't know the torque figures of a BRZ sti but it sounds like it may already be faster than the impreza. Also with lower weight it will stop and turn faster and will yield much better fuel consumption. Sign me up for a BRZ.
It should be 2 wheel drive. As it is, however it may require more power and perhaps a better more buffed up look. cause seriously this looks too much like a copy of the ft 86.. how do u choose between them? in my opinion better off buying an impreza
@Amin of course it looks like a copy of the FT86 it's the same car!
Strongly believe that these cars need to at least have the option of a turbo. Modern day turbocharging is a lot different from that in the 90's. Even with a turbo the power delivery can still be smooth and return acceptable economy. By turbocharging the potential of these cars would be greatly increased.
RWD Subaru? Nice.
RWD Subaru? Nice.
One of the leader engineers said that turbocharging is not suitable for the driving experience BRZ trying to serve. There is also a rumour about that there is no place for a proper turbocharging system under the bonnet for turbocharging the car without disturbing its balance and pureness of the driveability. If a 250 hp RWD car weighting around 1100 kg can do better than a one with 300 hp and 1400 kg, everyone should be ok with it, even a STI maniac like me.
250hp in a lightened rear wheel drive car sounds awesome to me! Sometimes less power is needed to go faster. And if it does happen to have a turbo, I won't get it. I prefer NA cars.
I noticed a lot of you wanted forced induction, I can concur with that. However, this car was not designed to be a drag vehicle nor "Spank your friends on dyno day". This car is made specifically for handling, similar to S2000. When you think about the 250HP on a 2L NA is very impressive and on top of that, STi will have a stiffer suspension in which will give the ride a lot more sporty feel to it. On top of that, STi models will be lighter as a whole, with the lighter but bigger wheels gives it possibly better traction, again back to handling and carbon fiber hood as well as roof as well as lighter racing front seats which could shave off roughly 50 lbs (I'm just guessing folks, don't take my words on this), that will give the STi a better power to weight ratio to the regular model. I don't know about you but that alone is already better than RX8 and I respect rotary sport cars, not to mentioned S2000 will have a fight on their hands.
For those of you who wants BRZ to be AWD, please try test driving it first as it's own car and not as a replacement to WRX, they are 2 completely different models from the same family so it wouldn't make sense for you to compare the 2 and expect them to be the same in anyway, each one has its own purpose. I believe the BRZ would be good enough as it is a regular model but amazing as STi version.
I am determined to own the STi model eventually.
Horsepower is like sex. You can never have enough!! But seriously, what a disappointment...I mean an STI without a turbo?? WTF?!
250 hp is more than enough IF the torque numbers are at least over 200 ft lbs and come on early
200HP is like a FC3S. 250HP is like a S2000. These cars weigh about the same as the FT86/FRS/BRZ.
The engine should be as good as a S2000. Right now the engine on the dyno gets around 150-170HP and the car weighs like 700 pounds more than an AE86. Which means it is slower than an AE86 with a 4AGE.
I would rather have the AE86 than the current FRS. That is just smart money.